DragonMint T1 16TH/S halongmining.com

[promojo]

I am all with you, but I think the main reason for any company doing pre-order right now is to grab extra profits from rising crypto prices.

I still believe a preorder of 3-4 weeks would be ok. 3 Months with the L3+ was pure torture for me lol

Incorrect... I know people that work at the company... They need the money in advance to pre-book the foundry, workers, parts, etc....   NOT so they can play with the money or pre-mine with the gear... etc etc etc.

[Albortz]

I am all with you, but I think the main reason for any company doing pre-order right now is to grab extra profits from rising crypto prices.

I still believe a preorder of 3-4 weeks would be ok. 3 Months with the L3+ was pure torture for me lol

Incorrect... I know people that work at the company... They need the money in advance to pre-book the foundry, workers, parts, etc....   NOT so they can play with the money or pre-mine with the gear... etc etc etc.

Never said anything about pre-mine. I was reffering to the general attitude to pre-order 3 month in advance. You cant tell me Bitmain needs the money to source parts or do RD

[promojo]

Never said anything about pre-mine. I was reffering to the general attitude to pre-order 3 month in advance. You cant tell me Bitmain needs the money to source parts or do RD

Bitmain does not... but they still do what they did in the past... pre-order and take the money.  More than likely Bitmain CAN carry a stock and sell in real time but they don't want to.....   I have heard a lot of interesting things about that company and what they do to short supplies and what not....  These guys are competing directly with them so they need to secure funding in advance. 

[HagssFIN]

I got a reply from Halong Mining (the DragonMint 16Th/s miner).
They said that they don't have many prototypes around yet,
but they see what they can do, so that I could buy one for a thorough review at the forum.

Stay tuned.

I'm eagerly waiting their next reply as I guess many of you are waiting too.  

I have said it in here THRICE now... I will be getting one to review for the forum.   I should have it next week.

I'm looking forward to it.  

I have not yet received new info about whether I can buy one demo unit or not.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

I am all with you, but I think the main reason for any company doing pre-order right now is to grab extra profits from rising crypto prices.

I still believe a preorder of 3-4 weeks would be ok. 3 Months with the L3+ was pure torture for me lol

Incorrect... I know people that work at the company... They need the money in advance to pre-book the foundry, workers, parts, etc....   NOT so they can play with the money or pre-mine with the gear... etc etc etc.

Startup business financing 101: That (highlighted) ^^ is what real investors or a business loan is for. If actual business investors or banks will not advance them the needed capital then they are in the WRONG business. One does NOT use pre-orders to raise money!

[Albortz]

I am all with you, but I think the main reason for any company doing pre-order right now is to grab extra profits from rising crypto prices.

I still believe a preorder of 3-4 weeks would be ok. 3 Months with the L3+ was pure torture for me lol

Incorrect... I know people that work at the company... They need the money in advance to pre-book the foundry, workers, parts, etc....   NOT so they can play with the money or pre-mine with the gear... etc etc etc.

Startup business financing 101: That (highlighted) ^^ is what real investors or a business loan is for. If actual business investors or banks will not advance them the needed capital then they are in the WRONG business. One does NOT use pre-orders to raise money!

That is right. Back in time, one did call such a funding crowdsale, nowadays its called ICO and in the Mining world is pre-sale.  In my country, it would be forbidden by law to have such a long pre-order Phase...

[promojo]

I'm looking forward to it.  

I have not yet received new info about whether I can buy one demo unit or not.

More than likely you won't be able to

[promojo]

Startup business financing 101: That (highlighted) ^^ is what real investors or a business loan is for. If actual business investors or banks will not advance them the needed capital then they are in the WRONG business. One does NOT use pre-orders to raise money!

LOL...  For those of us that are in business we know all about that.... Smart business people use other peoples monies to build their business.... whether it be investors or pre-orders....  EEVEN IF you have a good idea there is a VERY GOOD CHANCE you will not get a loan/financing.   Hence... pre-orders/group-buy/crowdfund/etc.   The problem is.... this industry is TOO NEW so that is why people don't want to risk that.   There are no benchmarks to compare it to and I highly doubt Bitmain is going to share their financials with some bank or competitors.

[HagssFIN]

I'm looking forward to it.  

I have not yet received new info about whether I can buy one demo unit or not.

More than likely you won't be able to

Can you elaborate, why?

[itod]

It strikes me as incredible that people send thousands of dollars to someone that just created a shitty website with no names, addresses or any other information of who is behind it.

it shows you are not hanging around here long enough. People sent not thousands but millions of US$ for miners to a guy with brand Avalon, and he didn't even had a site. I know it's hard to believe, but search through forum posts 2012/2013 and you will see it's a true story. The mere thought of decentralized mining and opportunity to mine BTC with ROI gets everybody ecstatic. Comparing to Avalon, DragonMint is super-legit. It even have a trusted community member who claims he verified they are not scam.

[QuintLeo]

Never said anything about pre-mine. I was reffering to the general attitude to pre-order 3 month in advance. You cant tell me Bitmain needs the money to source parts or do RD

Bitmain does not... but they still do what they did in the past... pre-order and take the money.  More than likely Bitmain CAN carry a stock and sell in real time but they don't want to.....   I have heard a lot of interesting things about that company and what they do to short supplies and what not....  These guys are competing directly with them so they need to secure funding in advance. 

 I doubt that Bitmain can "carry a stock", as their access to foundry production is pretty limited due to them being a small producer while AMD, NVidia, and the like have foundries booked for MONTHS ahead on LARGE wafer count production runs.

 As has been mentioned in many other threads before, the very few foundries that HAVE 14/16nm production lines are SWAMPED by demand - and the cost to bring such a line up and into production is bloody expen$$$$$$$$ive and takes quite a while.


 No insult intended promojo, but you're not exactly a WELL known member - I'd vastly prefer someone that IS well known like phillipma or HaggisFin or even Doogie to review a unit before I'm inclined to trust in it's existence.

 I'm not sure if I'd count on that list, as I've not posted reviews of "new gear" from new manufacturers before.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

Startup business financing 101: That (highlighted) ^^ is what real investors or a business loan is for. If actual business investors or banks will not advance them the needed capital then they are in the WRONG business. One does NOT use pre-orders to raise money!

LOL...  For those of us that are in business we know all about that.... Smart business people use other peoples monies to build their business.... whether it be investors or pre-orders....  EEVEN IF you have a good idea there is a VERY GOOD CHANCE you will not get a loan/financing.   Hence... pre-orders/group-buy/crowdfund/etc.   The problem is.... this industry is TOO NEW so that is why people don't want to risk that.   There are no benchmarks to compare it to and I highly doubt Bitmain is going to share their financials with some bank or competitors.

Yes if possible you use other peoples money. Those other people are called investors. Being an Investor creates *some* legal protections but also means they are aware of the risk and should be aware of the nature of the business they are investing in. Even Crowdfunding using the general public gives some protections. Again, at least folks there know the product does not yet exist outside of 'proof of concept'. If Crowdfunders want to roll the dice, so be it.

When a manufacturer has trouble making the sell to Investors then they need to try harder/better and put together a better presentation. End of story.

Using pre-orders is a very very scammy and downright lazy way to get money so to ALL who go this route I say BUGGER OFF SCAMMERS! Why? Because customers who fall for this have ZERO protections. Most will be assuming the product is real and is actually in production when this is not the case -- and in fact *may* never be.

My company which makes equipment for the semiconductor industry releases several new products each year. How do we finance R&D/initial production? Out of OUR OWN pocket. At a typical over $2.5M to develop just 1 new system we would LOVE our end customers to directly foot the R&D bills but despite us being a proven industry leader for almost 40 years still not happening.

[dlezama]

It strikes me as incredible that people send thousands of dollars to someone that just created a shitty website with no names, addresses or any other information of who is behind it.

it shows you are not hanging around here long enough. People sent not thousands but millions of US$ for miners to a guy with brand Avalon, and he didn't even had a site. I know it's hard to believe, but search through forum posts 2012/2013 and you will see it's a true story. The mere thought of decentralized mining and opportunity to mine BTC with ROI gets everybody ecstatic. Comparing to Avalon, DragonMint is super-legit. It even have a trusted community member who claims he verified they are not scam.

You are correct, I'm quite new to crypto. I'm not new to investing, business or engineering though. I have myself ordered an Obelisk, another product that doesn't exist, but I know the names of the people behind it and they are bound to US law, they may fail but I don't think they're just running away with the money or making unfounded claims, and risking going to jail. I'm still considering that purchase very high risk and putting there money I could afford to lose.

You mention Avalon as a success story (Canaan right?), but how many scams and horrible failures have there been? I've read tons of examples of both. I am not saying this is a scam, I don't know. I'm just saying I would not buy min 5 units from an anonymous website, for an expected delivery in March (now April) of a new product of unknown quality (as an engineer I know how hard it is to create a product like this and produce it in large quantities).

I'll restate, it surprises me that people are buying this. Call it inexperience, or a fresh pairs of eyes, or risk aversion, or whatever you like

[castiel0504]

@Dlezama

Comparing Canaan, to random preorder shady company, is like comparing Apples and Oranges... There can be some missunderstanding with Canaan support, or lost payment etc, but that doesn't prove that they are scam company. They are trustworthy and already verified 

[TheHashcashin]

I got a reply from Halong Mining (the DragonMint 16Th/s miner).
They said that they don't have many prototypes around yet,
but they see what they can do, so that I could buy one for a thorough review at the forum.

Stay tuned.

I'm eagerly waiting their next reply as I guess many of you are waiting too.  

I have said it in here THRICE now... I will be getting one to review for the forum.   I should have it next week.

Your significance is unrivaled OR you must be part of the SCAM!

A Chinese tech company based in China will give first dibs to the CHINESE!

What possibly would compell Lao or Chang to drop the delicious seafood dish they're eating to fire up the private JET and hold some demos in your suburb?!?   0-500 ASIC miners over the course of a year?

DOUBT IT

Chinese and Scandanavian mining farms that are gonna pony up for 5,000 at a time are getting wined and dined (if you preordered on your dime) right now.

In ADDITION to that, 16 th/s isn't even a great leap! Lets debate that! The Avalon 8 will do that and Ebang will hit 20 at 1,000watts.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

Chinese and Scandanavian mining farms that are gonna pony up for 5,000 at a time are getting wined and dined (if you preordered on your dime) right now.

Exactly as Bitmine.ch, HashFast, KnC, BFL, ASICMINER and several miner makers did with the pre-order funds they got during 2013-early 2014.

Many of us here Remember those days. Keep in mind the old saying:
Those who forget History are Doomed to repeat it.

Of the relatively low number of their miners that ever were produced guess where 99% were sent? Farm customers, virtually ZERO to non-major customers who pre-paid. Again, here specifically KnC and Bitmine.ch come to mind.

Skim through the the AMT Skype room chats linked in my sig between myself, a couple other Forum members and Josh Zipkin the owner of AMT back then. Ja it is 250 pages but gives a good insight as to how the minds of those behind pre-order schemes think and see nothing ethically wrong in what they are doing -- especially when things blow up for all involved not the least of whom are the pre-paid-in-full folks.

Yes in all fairness to Josh it is very true that the horrendous mess of Bitmine.ch's attempted release of the 28nm A1 series is what truly screwed the pooch - the AMT designs were supposed to be based on what Bitmine.ch gave them - nonetheless as the AMT room chats reveal he should have called a halt to sales and start refunds months before being bankrupted.

[mindtrip]

anyone seen this thing in real life? Ill offer to do a voucher if the manufacturer wants to ship me one for evaluation and write up

[Biffa]

Chinese and Scandanavian mining farms that are gonna pony up for 5,000 at a time are getting wined and dined (if you preordered on your dime) right now.

Exactly as Bitmine.ch, HashFast, KnC, BFL, ASICMINER and several miner makers did with the pre-order funds they got during 2013-early 2014.

Many of us here Remember those days. Keep in mind the old saying:
Those who forget History are Doomed to repeat it.

Of the relatively low number of their miners that ever were produced guess where 99% were sent? Farm customers, virtually ZERO to non-major customers who pre-paid. Again, here specifically KnC and Bitmine.ch come to mind.

Skim through the the AMT Skype room chats linked in my sig between myself, a couple other Forum members and Josh Zipkin the owner of AMT back then. Ja it is 250 pages but gives a good insight as to how the minds of those behind pre-order schemes think and see nothing ethically wrong in what they are doing -- especially when things blow up for all involved not the least of whom are the pre-paid-in-full folks.

Yes in all fairness to Josh it is very true that the horrendous mess of Bitmine.ch's attempted release of the 28nm A1 series is what truly screwed the pooch - the AMT designs were supposed to be based on what Bitmine.ch gave them - nonetheless as the AMT room chats reveal he should have called a halt to sales and start refunds months before being bankrupted.

I was there, I managed to dodge the Bitmine, Hashfast and ASICMINER fiasco's.

I wouldn't call KnC a scam however, they delivered hardware, I went and picked my Jupiter up from the office in Stockholm and ended up with a few of them. They may have gone down the toilet after the Titan and then closing up shop but they started out producing working miners at least.

This is somewhat different. With the eyes of experience we long time miners are trying to help people understand that it there are some simple tests to know if its a scam or not, they have all been outlined in this thread, but try as we might there will be people who get burned on this, and the market is much larger than it was in 2013, there are going to be millions lost on this if it proves to be a scam.

[Tigggger]

I was there, I managed to dodge the Bitmine, Hashfast and ASICMINER fiasco's.

I wouldn't call KnC a scam however, they delivered hardware, I went and picked my Jupiter up from the office in Stockholm and ended up with a few of them. They may have gone down the toilet after the Titan and then closing up shop but they started out producing working miners at least.

This is somewhat different. With the eyes of experience we long time miners are trying to help people understand that it there are some simple tests to know if its a scam or not, they have all been outlined in this thread, but try as we might there will be people who get burned on this, and the market is much larger than it was in 2013, there are going to be millions lost on this if it proves to be a scam.

Indeed, add BFL to the list of shady's and I manged to avoid them all.

The only one I got burned by was Avalon, their 3rd batch was ridiculously late and the chip sales never happened, coupled with the fact that my miner was supposed to be hosted in China and ended up arriving even later in the UK at our silly electric rates, that was a BTC110 big ouch.

But I will concur about KNC, I bought lots of their machines, and all of them arrived and work as promised.  It appeared like their last the Titan was going to be a $10,000 dud as I had lots of dead dies on mine but a quick warranty swap meant it ran as advertised and the BTC/LTC changed significantly to make it the most profitable machine I ever got off them, and it's still going at max speed today.  The only really scammy thing they did was set up their own data halls with more hashpower than they promised.

But anyway listen to the experienced voices in this thread, even if (and it's a big if) it actually ships at the specs advertised, it's way too long to wait and the difference between and it and an S9 that's available now is way too small to bother. Back when there was ONLY pre-orders you had to do a risk/reward analysis on the companies involved to decide who or what to buy, but now this seems like all risk and no reward.

[mindtrip]

I agree its easy to forge the video with another miner mining to the same worker so this video isnt enough evidence to support this as a valid offering