-

[Lab_Rat]

We all have to remember that the bitfunder thing was just sprung  on us without any warning. I would rather LR look at all his options and deciding the best way to go rather than to hurry up and say "we are going to do it this way" and then have to change his mind. I agree, the reason the shares took a dive was because of bitfunder shutting down..

Thank you for recognizing this.  I'm working on the best way to get things set up and I believe I've found it.  I'm meeting with Dave in person tomorrow or Friday to work out a deal.

There was a holiday that affected the assembly of units in Asia for BitFury so Dave expects to get some hardware next week from what I've heard.  I'll be getting some of that.  The rest of the deal is not worked out, but more news will come on this.

[Lab_Rat]

Pretty unprofessional if you ask me.

Just up and deciding that LR would keep people's div-payouts that "aren't invested enough"?  Bullshit.

Can't be bothered to post information like the need to send a signed message TO THE LRM WEBSITE?  Bullshit.

Take ownership of the issue LR.

I'm working on it.  There's still 3 weeks.  I feel that's plenty of time.

To anyone who is waiting to send a signed message to me, you may send it now as I'll be checking the amount of bonds you hold to verify the amount you sent in the signed message once the final asset list is collected.  I'll accept signed messages now.

[Lab_Rat]

One bit of good news is the price of bitcoin is going up with a bit of strength. This will allow for Labrat to buy more hardware with the LRM bitcoins he's been holding. Also, it will give the coins mined from the two weeks withholding - whenever that happens this month - more buying power. So far, about 15% higher bitcoin value. Time will indicate.

Yes, and it's going to be in the next couple days I make payment to BitFury so this helps a lot.

[Lab_Rat]

@LabRat : email sent, please confirm.

confirmed, yours and about 84 others.

[fractal02]

@LabRat : email sent, please confirm.

confirmed, yours and about 84 others.

Yeeesss ^^

Thank you LabRat
(my ulcer is disappearing lol)

[fran2k]

@LabRat : email sent, please confirm.

confirmed, yours and about 84 others.

It's great that you responded anything in this thread, thanks for that.

Are going to make a public list with the assets/addresses confirmed? So we know that you got our mails, signatures, etc.

Do i need to send the mail with verified message only between 22 Oct and 24 Oct or it's OK to send before (i already send, not interested in selling or buying for the moment...)

And LabRat would confirm the reception of the mail (and message validity ) or not ?

I don't want to see my shares lost...

No, just before Nov 7th, quoted from here:

If you do not verify ownership of your bonds via this method by Thursday, Nov. 7th, your bonds and accrued dividends will be absorbed by LRM.

[Lab_Rat]

In addition to that math (disclosed hashrate projects and difficulty increases) there are big fundamental changes that make people feel different about the potential:
1) people less than 20 shares no longer receive dividends. that is temporary, but such a decision caused a large loss of confidence in management. The shares are worthless without reliable dividends.
2) everyone else has to pay a new fee of a minimum 0.025 per account, perhaps as much as 0.075 per account. again temporary, but investors think it is outrageous and no longer want to be a part of it.
3) transaction fees now have to paid for by investors, and are projected to be 0.0005 per account per week. Small, but investors are losing faith.

Blowing a lot of this out of proportion. Last week was THE ONLY week you'll see a 0.025 fee, and BTC0.0005 is about $0.07.  If you think 7 cents on a transaction up to ~$1000 (approx what the highest bondholder was paid last week) is high.  Go back to PayPal.

[Lab_Rat]

@LabRat : email sent, please confirm.

confirmed, yours and about 84 others.

It's great that you responded anything in this thread, thanks for that.

Are going to make a public list with the assets/addresses confirmed? So we know that you got our mails, signatures, etc.

Do i need to send the mail with verified message only between 22 Oct and 24 Oct or it's OK to send before (i already send, not interested in selling or buying for the moment...)

And LabRat would confirm the reception of the mail (and message validity ) or not ?

I don't want to see my shares lost...

Quoted from here

If you do not verify ownership of your bonds via this method by Thursday, Nov. 7th, your bonds and accrued dividends will be absorbed by LRM.

I'll make a public list as soon as I go through and verify all of them with ones that were successfully or unsuccessfully verified.  I should be able to do this tonight.

[fractal02]

LabRat are you still in contact with KNCminer ?

[maqifrnswa]

In addition to that math (disclosed hashrate projects and difficulty increases) there are big fundamental changes that make people feel different about the potential:
1) people less than 20 shares no longer receive dividends. that is temporary, but such a decision caused a large loss of confidence in management. The shares are worthless without reliable dividends.
2) everyone else has to pay a new fee of a minimum 0.025 per account, perhaps as much as 0.075 per account. again temporary, but investors think it is outrageous and no longer want to be a part of it.
3) transaction fees now have to paid for by investors, and are projected to be 0.0005 per account per week. Small, but investors are losing faith.

Blowing a lot of this out of proportion. Last week was THE ONLY week you'll see a 0.025 fee, and BTC0.0005 is about $0.07.  If you think 7 cents on a transaction up to ~$1000 (approx what the highest bondholder was paid last week) is high.  Go back to PayPal.

EXACTLY! 7 cents on a transaction of 17 cents is insane (a single share)! Is the official policy of LRM that investors only count if you have >$1000 invested? If so, are there plans to merge shares to reduce dust payments?

Another option, see:

Another thing nastyfans does that could be good to emulate: dividends are paid out once a week in one transaction with minimal transaction fees, essentially shared by everyone. Charging every account .0005 for transaction fees is ridiculous when you can make a single transaction with fees a few times bigger than that.
Example:
https://blockchain.info/tx/7c4d0999406c28ca71f67bd6c6b0d73ba75f43a565513b5d54ffe0ce480c7cb1

total fees for 20,000 "shares" and smaller dividends than LRM: 0.0035 BTC. I don't see how .0005 per account per week is at all reasonable when others are doing 0.00000018 per share per week (for a similar number of shares as LRM).

[moribana]

Unless you have reason to think these one or two people selling a lot of shares has insider information, then don't worry about why they are selling.
These events that have happened lately - like Bitfunder - are not changes in the basic fundamentals of Labrat.

what are the fundamentals of LRM? have you seen a balance sheet or income statement?

Here are the fundamentals (which aren't real fundamentals since this is based on LRM projections, not released data):
This hashrate per bond value is currently 81MH/s per bond.
Given a 75% difficulty increase per month, and no new hardware purchases: bonds are valued at BTC0.015 minus 0.025 per account

hashrate of 400 MH/s per bond
Given a 75% increase per month, and no new hardware purchases
Hashing starting in november, bonds valued at BTC0.042 minus 0.025 per account

hashrate of 700 MH/s per bond
Given a 75% increase per month, and no new hardware purchases
Hashing starting in november, bonds valued at BTC0.074 minus 0.025 per account

hashrate of 700 MH/s per bond
Given a 50% difficulty increase per month, and no new hardware purchases
Hashing starting in november, bonds valued at BTC0.11 minus 0.025 per account

to get to IPO prices, LRM has to 1) add hardware exceeding difficulty and exceeding 700 MH/s per bond with no dilution, 2) hope for < 75% per month difficulty increases, 3) drop extra dividend fees, and 4) get to full hashrate in < 1 month.

At this point, there is no evidence of these improvements happening. I'm not saying it won't happen, just that there is no evidence besides occasional "we're working on deals" comments.

This is why securities follow certain organizational rules and investors demand transparency.

I do not understand your calculation, I find it too optimistic. If I assume 75% increase in difficulty per month, that translates into 20% increase per 10-day period while diff. is constant. This means that if you had 1Ghash per bond now then it would be about 0.1btc that you would ever mine with that. Note that each one month delay would decrease that by 43%.

So a bond with 700Mhash now would mean 0.07btc and the same hash rate in mid November would be 0.04 btc. And this is not the actual value of the bond since all costs still have to be deducted and some risks factored in and there is still no profit in this calculation, just ROI.

Whether it is worth purchasing any gear at all depends a lot on what sort of a deal LR can get. But spending all the funds and getting 700Mhash/bond online in mid Nov. definitely won't cut it. I also strongly urge more transparency because everything depends on these details. 

[bigdaub]

In addition to that math (disclosed hashrate projects and difficulty increases) there are big fundamental changes that make people feel different about the potential:
1) people less than 20 shares no longer receive dividends. that is temporary, but such a decision caused a large loss of confidence in management. The shares are worthless without reliable dividends.
2) everyone else has to pay a new fee of a minimum 0.025 per account, perhaps as much as 0.075 per account. again temporary, but investors think it is outrageous and no longer want to be a part of it.
3) transaction fees now have to paid for by investors, and are projected to be 0.0005 per account per week. Small, but investors are losing faith.

Blowing a lot of this out of proportion. Last week was THE ONLY week you'll see a 0.025 fee, and BTC0.0005 is about $0.07.  If you think 7 cents on a transaction up to ~$1000 (approx what the highest bondholder was paid last week) is high.  Go back to PayPal.

EXACTLY! 7 cents on a transaction of 17 cents is insane (a single share)! Is the official policy of LRM that investors only count if you have >$1000 invested? If so, are there plans to merge shares to reduce dust payments?

Another option, see:

Another thing nastyfans does that could be good to emulate: dividends are paid out once a week in one transaction with minimal transaction fees, essentially shared by everyone. Charging every account .0005 for transaction fees is ridiculous when you can make a single transaction with fees a few times bigger than that.
Example:
https://blockchain.info/tx/7c4d0999406c28ca71f67bd6c6b0d73ba75f43a565513b5d54ffe0ce480c7cb1

total fees for 20,000 "shares" and smaller dividends than LRM: 0.0035 BTC. I don't see how .0005 per account per week is at all reasonable when others are doing 0.00000018 per share per week (for a similar number of shares as LRM).

Why not use Iputs.io for off block transactions. Micropayments with zero fees.

[||bit]

One bit of good news is the price of bitcoin is going up with a bit of strength. This will allow for Labrat to buy more hardware with the LRM bitcoins he's been holding. Also, it will give the coins mined from the two weeks withholding - whenever that happens this month - more buying power. So far, about 15% higher bitcoin value. Time will indicate.

Yes, and it's going to be in the next couple days I make payment to BitFury so this helps a lot.

It will at least counteract the Bitfury delay (and vice versa). For that reason, I'm not so sure it will put LRM ahead of what was already expected, if you could sum up the long term dividends in either scenario. It may keep it at par with the expected scenario. However, if bitcoin stays higher, it will put LRM ahead with any November purchases. And Dave should be dropping the price of hardware with difficulty increase.

[a2offrb]

In addition to that math (disclosed hashrate projects and difficulty increases) there are big fundamental changes that make people feel different about the potential:
1) people less than 20 shares no longer receive dividends. that is temporary, but such a decision caused a large loss of confidence in management. The shares are worthless without reliable dividends.
2) everyone else has to pay a new fee of a minimum 0.025 per account, perhaps as much as 0.075 per account. again temporary, but investors think it is outrageous and no longer want to be a part of it.
3) transaction fees now have to paid for by investors, and are projected to be 0.0005 per account per week. Small, but investors are losing faith.

Blowing a lot of this out of proportion. Last week was THE ONLY week you'll see a 0.025 fee, and BTC0.0005 is about $0.07.  If you think 7 cents on a transaction up to ~$1000 (approx what the highest bondholder was paid last week) is high.  Go back to PayPal.

For me it was 12% of my dividents, AFTER 25% you already took. So, IT IS MUCH.
Go to PayPal? Go to HELL!
You are speaking almost like Inaba. You are breaking own rules and dont like ppl dint like it?

[twmz]

In addition to that math (disclosed hashrate projects and difficulty increases) there are big fundamental changes that make people feel different about the potential:
1) people less than 20 shares no longer receive dividends. that is temporary, but such a decision caused a large loss of confidence in management. The shares are worthless without reliable dividends.
2) everyone else has to pay a new fee of a minimum 0.025 per account, perhaps as much as 0.075 per account. again temporary, but investors think it is outrageous and no longer want to be a part of it.
3) transaction fees now have to paid for by investors, and are projected to be 0.0005 per account per week. Small, but investors are losing faith.

Blowing a lot of this out of proportion. Last week was THE ONLY week you'll see a 0.025 fee, and BTC0.0005 is about $0.07.  If you think 7 cents on a transaction up to ~$1000 (approx what the highest bondholder was paid last week) is high.  Go back to PayPal.

EXACTLY! 7 cents on a transaction of 17 cents is insane (a single share)! Is the official policy of LRM that investors only count if you have >$1000 invested? If so, are there plans to merge shares to reduce dust payments?

Another option, see:

Another thing nastyfans does that could be good to emulate: dividends are paid out once a week in one transaction with minimal transaction fees, essentially shared by everyone. Charging every account .0005 for transaction fees is ridiculous when you can make a single transaction with fees a few times bigger than that.
Example:
https://blockchain.info/tx/7c4d0999406c28ca71f67bd6c6b0d73ba75f43a565513b5d54ffe0ce480c7cb1

total fees for 20,000 "shares" and smaller dividends than LRM: 0.0035 BTC. I don't see how .0005 per account per week is at all reasonable when others are doing 0.00000018 per share per week (for a similar number of shares as LRM).

Why not use Iputs.io for off block transactions. Micropayments with zero fees.

WeExchange was enough of a pain.  Let's not get another middle man involved.

There is no reason that every individual dividend recipient needs to worry about the 0.0005 transaction fee.  If dividend payments are not using multi-recipient transactions (where 100s of payments can go out in a single transaction with a single transaction fee), then you're doing it wrong.  LabRat, if you want to do it wrong, more power too you, but you should pay for that yourself, since there is an viable and easy alternative that doesn't have the same cost.

'sendmany' transactions have been standard operating procedure for a long time.  Get on board, please.

[bigasic]

With bitcoin QT, I can sit there and add recipients all day long and i believe the system now charges .0001btc per 1kb of info. the last time I sent 2 bitcoins, i used about 300 bytes, so, by using bitcoinqt and sending everyones at the same time will save money in the long run. Granted, .0005 is nothing really (12 cents, i think), but it adds up if you do hundreds a week...(yea it turns into 12 dollars, lol) but its the concept, not really the money. Im a large bond holder, so I couldn't care less about the .0005btc fee, but if i were a small share holder, i might care...

But it sounds like we have some good news coming... Man, we are over 2 petahashes already.. i hope it slows down....(yea, right)

[Ashitank]

But it sounds like we have some good news coming... Man, we are over 2 petahashes already.. i hope it slows down....(yea, right)

I have been emphasizing this , I see trouble all over because 35% difficulty jump every 2 weeks , its like LRM is riding motorbike & trying to out do difficulty riding dragster on drag strip.  

[SimonBelmond]

Casascius manages it as well for funding the coins:

http://casascius.wordpress.com/

Check the top blog post. Massive transaction for standard fee. I am sure he would give advice to Lab_Rat if he experiances problems.

[bigasic]

But it sounds like we have some good news coming... Man, we are over 2 petahashes already.. i hope it slows down....(yea, right)

I have been emphasizing this , I see trouble all over because 35% difficulty jump every 2 weeks , its like LRM is riding motorbike & trying to out do difficulty riding dragster on drag strip.  

The main reason is knc and bitfury have released. I think we will start to see a semi slow down or it will come in waves, but i dont expect a 30 percent jump every 10 days..

[moribana]

But it sounds like we have some good news coming... Man, we are over 2 petahashes already.. i hope it slows down....(yea, right)

I have been emphasizing this , I see trouble all over because 35% difficulty jump every 2 weeks , its like LRM is riding motorbike & trying to out do difficulty riding dragster on drag strip.  

The main reason is knc and bitfury have released. I think we will start to see a semi slow down or it will come in waves, but i dont expect a 30 percent jump every 10 days..

Even if you have only 20% jump every 10 days, I do not see how it works out. Assuming this and deployment of 700Mhash per share (LR's best projection) in mid November would mean that each share gets only 0.04 btc altogether if the rig is run infinitely long (in practice most of this comes in the first couple of months). This means that each bond makes less than a quarter of the IPO price. So the only way this can work out is if

1) btc price shoots up (but then it is better just to hold btc)

2) LR can deploy a much higher (4x) hash rate than the best projection

3) the difficulty increase significantly slows down