-

[contactmike1]

I thought the whole point of the "bonus" was so he could pay out the new equipment?   

[Mindsync Miner]

That is how i read it... the hashrate we have in equipment now is all we will ever get... all this new Bitfury equipment WE PAID FOR can only be reaped by purchasing more bonds... essetially LRM will be mining with it all for his own pocket except that portion that someone else pays for as they buy new contracts. WE PAID FOR THAT BITFURY GEAR, IT IS OUR HASHRATE AND LRM IS FORCING US TO RELINQUISH IT TO NEW CONTRACTS ONLY.

Might I remind everybody that we forfeited "two weeks" (in practice it was more than that) of mining dividends with our new with LRM's purchased Bitfury gear to be used to purchase further hardware. I was of the opinion at the time that it was a mistake but now it's clear that any value gained from forfeiting these dividends is solely at LR's discretion to do with as he pleases. It's also worth noting that because of difficulty the first "two weeks" of dividends were indeed much fatter than any two weeks since.

I for one am not feeling assured. It's more "make it up as we go" methodology.
The contract nails down some specifics but mostly it informs us how screwed we really are.

[runam0k]

This is all BS. It was an implied term of the original contract that contract holders would receive a share of mining proceeds based on the number of contracts (not a fixed hashrate), with a simple reinvestment mechanism.

Original contract holders who choose not to convert to the new fixed hashrate contracts should continue to receive their proper share of mining proceeds and benefit from any reinvestment.  Anything else is a breach of contract.

[Frankthechicken]

I thought the whole point of the "bonus" was so he could pay out the new equipment?   

Yes, that is how I interpreted it, but that relies on placing trust in a benevolent Lab_Rat who will do what will most benefit the contract holders.  The new contract is a huge step backward from what little transparency we did have.  I personally think Lab_Rat is more likely than a lot of people to willingly pay out a very large portion of mined bitcoin over and above the contracted rate, however, I do not like the lack of guarantees.  The new contract basically reads "100MH/s plus bonus at LR's discretion".  I personally think it is likely the "bonus" will consistently be nice and significantly higher than 100MH/s, but there is nothing to prevent LR from having a bad week, going on a coke binge using what would otherwise be bonus bitcoin, waking up on a beach in a singlet somewhere, and paying out just 100MH/s per contract, and we would have zero recourse and zero knowledge there ever was a pool of bitcoins that could have been used as a bonus.  This seems like a huge departure from the spirit of the original contract.  Worse, LR can't even say what he really intends to do because of legal liabilities.  Maybe he intends to payout a bonus regularly every week based on actual mined bitcoin, but he can't say that is what he intends to do one way or the other because of legal concerns.

I would have much rather seen contracts that split to accommodate increased hashrate rather than relying on fixed + bonus.

Will have to think on this more and read what others are thinking.

[karusloom]

LabRat im not asking you to return my BTC but i'd like to get the equivalent amount of bitfury mining gear, so i have 162 shares and i bought them @ 0,15 per pc, that makes 24,3 BTC. Taking todays Bitstamp rate its approx 11k dollars which when looking at bitfuryin price in EU would be about 2,5TH worth of mining gear so you would only have to send me 6 bitfury full kits (H-cards x16, motherboard, rasp, sd card) x6. Please contact me as soon as possible.

[smracer]

Isn't it about 150TH, not ~5-7?

Nope.  Labrat said that 55% of the BitFury gear is up and running already.  The current total hashrate is only 17TH, half of which is BFL gear. So that must mean that about 5-7TH of Bitfury gear is left to install.

I think Labrat bought 100 Monarchs. 

[PoUpA]

Why the refund option didn't existed when we "switched" from proportionnal to fixed hashrate ? and how much do you value the "new" contract that is it possible to refund ?
If we choose the new contract ? did we have 7 days to ask a refund ?
Sorry but I feel a little bit screwed ...

[Frankthechicken]

Isn't it about 150TH, not ~5-7?

Nope.  Labrat said that 55% of the BitFury gear is up and running already.  The current total hashrate is only 17TH, half of which is BFL gear. So that must mean that about 5-7TH of Bitfury gear is left to install.

I think Labrat bought 100 Monarchs.  

I think you are taking statements too literally and not thinking creatively.  Could be wrong though.  I suspect LR has exactly 17.7 TH pointed at CEX.io to create that ticker.  The rest is pointed elsewhere.  Note the readout we see matches the "17.7 TH contracted" bit in LR's signature.

I think originally when all this started, LR received a minirig, some singles, and maybe some other stuff for a total of about 1 - 1.5 TH, then we received a bunch of bitfury equipment in Dec I think that brought us up to 23 and change TH, which is where we have "been" since.  That is the hardware (minus 25%) that has been pointed at CEX.io to generate that ticker we see on LRM's site.

Unless LR got royally screwed over, 150TH or more should have been inbound from bitfury, and half of it is online somewhere judging by comments from today.

ETA: The monarchs were ordered at the same time as the first batch of bitfury gear and iirc, the order was implied as being around $40-60k... so 10-15 originally perhaps?  My memory sucks, and I'm particularly lazy today, someone please help with the numbers.

[daemonfox]

Isn't it about 150TH, not ~5-7?

Nope.  Labrat said that 55% of the BitFury gear is up and running already.  The current total hashrate is only 17TH, half of which is BFL gear. So that must mean that about 5-7TH of Bitfury gear is left to install.

I think Labrat bought 100 Monarchs. 

I think you are taking statements too literally and not thinking creatively.  Could be wrong though.  I suspect LR has exactly 17.7 TH pointed at CEX.io to create that ticker.  The rest is pointed elsewhere.  Note the readout we see matches the "17.7 TH contracted" bit in LR's signature.

I think originally when all this started, LR received a minirig, some singles, and maybe some other stuff for a total of about 1 - 1.5 TH, then we received a bunch of bitfury equipment in Dec I think that brought us up to 23 and change TH, which is where we have "been" since.  That is the hardware (minus 25%) that has been pointed at CEX.io to generate that ticker we see on LRM's site.

Unless LR got royally screwed over, 150TH or more should have been inbound from bitfury, and half of it is online somewhere judging by comments from today.

And if the above is true... thats Bitfury gear WE PAID FOR that LRM is mining with all to himself.

[contactmike1]

Isn't it about 150TH, not ~5-7?

Nope.  Labrat said that 55% of the BitFury gear is up and running already.  The current total hashrate is only 17TH, half of which is BFL gear. So that must mean that about 5-7TH of Bitfury gear is left to install.

I think Labrat bought 100 Monarchs. 

I think you are taking statements too literally and not thinking creatively.  Could be wrong though.  I suspect LR has exactly 17.7 TH pointed at CEX.io to create that ticker.  The rest is pointed elsewhere.  Note the readout we see matches the "17.7 TH contracted" bit in LR's signature.

I think originally when all this started, LR received a minirig, some singles, and maybe some other stuff for a total of about 1 - 1.5 TH, then we received a bunch of bitfury equipment in Dec I think that brought us up to 23 and change TH, which is where we have "been" since.  That is the hardware (minus 25%) that has been pointed at CEX.io to generate that ticker we see on LRM's site.

Unless LR got royally screwed over, 150TH or more should have been inbound from bitfury, and half of it is online somewhere judging by comments from today.

And if the above is true... thats Bitfury gear WE PAID FOR that LRM is mining with all to himself.

Labrat said that equipment starts paying out in two weeks. 

[Mindsync Miner]

Yes, that is how I interpreted it, but that relies on placing trust in a benevolent Lab_Rat who will do what will most benefit the contract holders.  The new contract is a huge step backward from what little transparency we did have.  I personally think Lab_Rat is more likely than a lot of people to willingly pay out a very large portion of mined bitcoin over and above the contracted rate, however, I do not like the lack of guarantees.  The new contract basically reads "100MH/s plus bonus at LR's discretion".  I personally think it is likely the "bonus" will consistently be nice and significantly higher than 100MH/s, but there is nothing to prevent LR from having a bad week, going on a coke binge using what would otherwise be bonus bitcoin, waking up on a beach in a singlet somewhere, and paying out just 100MH/s per contract, and we would have zero recourse and zero knowledge there ever was a pool of bitcoins that could have been used as a bonus.  This seems like a huge departure from the spirit of the original contract.  Worse, LR can't even say what he really intends to do because of legal liabilities.  Maybe he intends to payout a bonus regularly every week based on actual mined bitcoin, but he can't say that is what he intends to do one way or the other because of legal concerns.

I would have much rather seen contracts that split to accommodate increased hashrate rather than relying on fixed + bonus.

Will have to think on this more and read what others are thinking.

I really hope the benevolent Lab_Rat you speak of rears his head very soon. I'm negative about the lack of guaranteed bonus the contracts specify. However, LR has acted in good faith on several occasions. Some nice bonus dividends would go a long way to averting legal action on the part of contract holders. As things stand on paper I have no doubt there are several here ready to pursue legal remedies should dividends under new contract stay around the 100MH/s rate.

[Jolest]

I sincerely hope I'm wrong, but I see the "choice" LR has given us as a false choice.   

We either accept the change he forced upon us when he went from proportional bonds to fixed bonds (with no contract in the interim) -OR- we accept the new contract with the exact same fixed bonds & a nebulous promise of an optional "bonus".

I reject both options.  Nowhere in any of this were we given the choice of receiving anything like the original proportional bonds.  This is IMHO, an illegal unilateral contract change.  I am not a lawyer, but I do know that even unilateral modifications are not supposed to alter the "material or important terms of the original contract".  Going from the original proportional-shares model to either of the other two options DO constitute important changes in conflict with the original expressed intent of the company.

Give me a contract (and bonds) which honor the original promise of steadily increasing hashrate thru reinvestment.

[bobfranklin]

Isn't it about 150TH, not ~5-7?

Nope.  Labrat said that 55% of the BitFury gear is up and running already.  The current total hashrate is only 17TH, half of which is BFL gear. So that must mean that about 5-7TH of Bitfury gear is left to install.

I think Labrat bought 100 Monarchs. 

That hashrate hasn't budged in months so I'm fairly confident it doesn't included the BitFury gear. Effectively there should be around 25TH online but 17-18 of it is at  cex.io.

[Flashman]

My guess is you are having heat problems.  It's going to get much much hotter this summer.

Well he did say the AC busted.... which might not have happened in the hot weather strangely enough, AC that isn't designed to run year round (as in different seasons rather than constantly warm tropics) will tend to freeze up it's coils when the air is below 45ish outside, which can be damaging...

[oldbushie]

So to clarify, holders of original bonds are locked at 300Mh now? Then if "upgraded" to new contract they get 3 for 1 split at 100Mh each plus bonus which is depending on how much mine is costing to run and expand etc.

The effective rate of original contract holders is 300MH/s which is being paid at 100MH/s per contract due to the 3:1 split.  Whomever goes to the new contracts, will receive 1 new contract for each current contract they currently hold.  EX: If you hold 100 contracts currently, you will receive 100 new contracts at 100MH/s + bonus.  The bonus will be based upon the then available funds to pay it.

I'm confused.

Assuming 100 "original" contracts:

Option 1:
They get converted to 300 "original" contracts with 100 MH/s each and not a hash more.

Option 2:
They get converted to 200 "new" contracts with 100 MH/s each with potential variable growth on top of the guaranteed hash rate.

Unless I'm misreading LabRat, something doesn't quite add up.

[Ashitank]

Guys either ways new contract or old contract Zach is asking us to bend over ....  we are not going to see any of our invested coins back , I think we should team-up & sue this mofo.

[Ashitank]

How does LRM come to conclusion that we have over achieved the purpose of orignal contract @ 300mh/s per bond. Stop pulling stuff out of your ass  Zach.

Why is the new contract limiting each bond to 100Mh/s per bond & not 500 mh/s or more per bond to begin with as base hash rate....... this all sounds messed-up.

If any one believes they will get expected hashrate equivalent payed out as bonus under new contract , u are smoking dam good shit , once any original contract holder conforms to switch over to new bonds you don't have any more rights & are at sole discretion & mercy of LRM.  

[bobfranklin]

So to clarify, holders of original bonds are locked at 300Mh now? Then if "upgraded" to new contract they get 3 for 1 split at 100Mh each plus bonus which is depending on how much mine is costing to run and expand etc.

The effective rate of original contract holders is 300MH/s which is being paid at 100MH/s per contract due to the 3:1 split.  Whomever goes to the new contracts, will receive 1 new contract for each current contract they currently hold.  EX: If you hold 100 contracts currently, you will receive 100 new contracts at 100MH/s + bonus.  The bonus will be based upon the then available funds to pay it.

I'm confused.

Assuming 100 "original" contracts:

Option 1:
They get converted to 300 "original" contracts with 100 MH/s each and not a hash more.

Option 2:
They get converted to 200 "new" contracts with 100 MH/s each with potential variable growth on top of the guaranteed hash rate.

Unless I'm misreading LabRat, something doesn't quite add up.

From what I understood both before and after you have 100 bonds at 100MH/s each, if you convert them however you get the discretionary bonus option.

[Ashitank]

LRM : Their is not a better way to cheat your investors out of their investments & gobble-up all the equipment & profits........ period.

[runam0k]

Guys either ways new contract or old contract Zach is asking us to bend over ....  we are not going to see any of our invested coins back , I think we should team-up & sue this mofo.

Surely "old contract" means the contract that existed before the purported unilateral change to fixed 100MH/s on March 18.

Lab Rat - can you clarify?

I bought contracts priced at and based on a % share of mining proceeds subject to costs and reinvestment.  I did not buy contracts for returns based on a fixed hashrate, discretionary bonus or not.