-

[countduckula]

In what part of your no way legal advice do you oversee the fact that he wants to change our bonds offered to be variable according to the hashrate attained by the company to a fixed number, laughable number too of 300 mhz?

Because if you think its about investing, he bought like 25 with the first ones and achieved 150th with the reinvested BTC, wich its not bad, he just wants to pay for the first 25 and the rest... it will be explained when he feels like it if he ever does it.

An honest person doesnt take this path, hiding under the table.

I'll take the asshole compliment, i don't trust Lab_Rat, and surely wont trust him ever, i've invested in something totally different of what he wants to claim he offered, and im sure all of us understood exactly the same or we wouldn't be here.

[1714136623]

1714136623

[1714136623]

1714136623

[John122]

And you base this on:

1) nothing
2) absolutely nothing
3) unsubstantiated assumptions
4) all of the above


Assholes? Seriously?
Not everyone can follow others in blind faith buddy. Especially after repeated breaches of trust. Scams happen all the time. How are you so certain you aren't being scammed? I'm rather curious as to if you have even read through this thread...

In your fantastic theory what exactly was stopping labrat from discussing these concerns you assume he had with bondholders? It's not like we have a thread on a forum where the company was started and discussion can occur. In fact the only person not willing to discuss much of anything at all was labrat himself.

My choice of word wasn't directed at anybody specifically, it is more of a general feeling that I (and I'm sure a few others) have about people spreading FUD since the beginning of the whole LRM project.
Oh and yeah, I read every since word of the thread since page 1, the day it all started. This might be pertinent background information.

I stated at the beginning of my post that this was my understanding of the situation, and I didn't ask for your input on it, or anyone else's for that matter.
This is the thought process that led me to ask this direct question to LabRat and is required for him to understand the meaning of my question.

I will no longer reply to anyone else about the content of my previous post. Thanks for your understanding.

[pontikis13]

And you base this on:

1) nothing
2) absolutely nothing
3) unsubstantiated assumptions
4) all of the above


Assholes? Seriously?
Not everyone can follow others in blind faith buddy. Especially after repeated breaches of trust. Scams happen all the time. How are you so certain you aren't being scammed? I'm rather curious as to if you have even read through this thread...

In your fantastic theory what exactly was stopping labrat from discussing these concerns you assume he had with bondholders? It's not like we have a thread on a forum where the company was started and discussion can occur. In fact the only person not willing to discuss much of anything at all was labrat himself.

I stated at the beginning of my post that this was my understanding of the situation, and I didn't ask for your input on it, or anyone else's for that matter.
This is the thought process that led me to ask this direct question to LabRat and is required for him to understand the meaning of my question.

I will no longer reply to anyone else about the content of my previous post. Thanks for your understanding.

http://www.sandbarstosunsets.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/man-with-ears-plugged-eyes-closed-holding-breath.jpg


Oh I understand alright...

[1247364403]

I was just about to post that very thing...

The company line from the AMA has been (as I understand it) : "Choose to take the new contract, or choose to keep the original contract, no legal advice will be provided to inform that decision."

But the original contract is no longer available, considering it's been modified to reflect the capped 100MH/s hash rate... so really, we're only able to choose between contract v1.5 and contract v2...

How do we, as investors/clients reconcile this choice? It hardly seems like one at all.

The original contract (v1) clearly states that individual bond hashrate will increase as new hardware is available. Stop saying we have a choice of our contracts. As far as I understand, we only have the choice between the recently modified contact, and the new contract.
 

50,000 bonds will be put up for sale @0.25BTC/bond or market value +-5% at the time of the bonds being issued, whichever is of greater value.  This installment will add at least 15TH/s to the companies mining operation, and with it will follow an increase in dividend payout to a minimum of 166.67MH/s per bond (this may increase depending on company expansion).  This not only gives the new investors an increase in dividend payment, but gives greater benefits to the initial and early investors.

It is intended the third installment will likely mimic the second installment thereby potentially increasing the company’s total hashrate to 40+TH/s which will in turn bump the dividend payout to 200+MH/s per share.  All the forgoing and following estimates presume a fully sold out bond/contract offering and returns for mining based on certain historical data for returns of similar operations.

It is intended installments in the operation will continue to occur which will provide more value to the company as well as more value to each individual bond as the company matures.  These expansions, if they occur, will likely grow the company and our mining capacity in size which will provide further expanded payouts in the form of dividends (or increased dividends to investors).  It is currently intended a portion of the money the company receives in revenue from bond sales and mining will be used to expand the operation which will further increase dividends per bond.  It is currently intended the company will be adding to the bondholders hashrate on a regular basis as the company expands so one should expect to receive greater dividends than those explained above.
Source: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=251423.0

Let's find a different solution here, or call it what it is and stop pretending we have a choice at all.

Please tell me where I've said you will not receive benefits of new hardware?

Also please read these statements that were highlighted:

It is intended installments in the operation will continue to occur which will provide more value to the company as well as more value to each individual bond as the company matures.  These expansions, if they occur, will likely grow the company and our mining capacity in size which will provide further expanded payouts in the form of dividends (or increased dividends to investors). It is currently intended a portion of the money the company receives in revenue from bond sales and mining will be used to expand the operation which will further increase dividends per bond.  It is currently intended the company will be adding to the bondholders hashrate on a regular basis as the company expands so one should expect to receive greater dividends than those explained above.

Therefore, Lab Rat Data Processing is amending its variable rate payout with a set rate payout of 100 MH/s per contract. This rate payout shall be for all current contract-holders and all future contract-holders.  Contemporaneous with the change from a varying rate payout to a set rate payout Lab_Rat will triple the amount of contracts held by all contract holders as of the date of March 8, 2014.  Therefore, for all current contract holders on their current contracts, the effective rate will be permanently set at 300 MH/s per contract.  All future contracts purchased will be at the new rate of 100MH/s.

*** The payout was never put in detail in the original contract ***

Please note that even without these guarantees I've still been paying out as much or more than I've voiced.  You are looking for negative when there is none to be found.  I've always gone above and beyond what the contract promised.  All I've done is clean up the new contract, provided additional benefits, and better explain the payout structure.

The price is about 0.1~0.2B when we bought lab_rat's shares in the stock, and now 300MH/s is only 0.002B, however the btc's price just rises from $100 to $450.  lab_rat cheat to rob us so many btcs and think the shareholders are fools!
lab_rat still delays time and refuse to recover to the original terms, so we should take various measures to accuse lab_rat until put him to the prison!

[dooferorg]

Guys either ways new contract or old contract Zach is asking us to bend over ....  we are not going to see any of our invested coins back , I think we should team-up & sue this mofo.

I totally agree. There needs to be a lawsuit and Lab Rat Mining dissolved, all assets sold and shared out.

Zach is obviously ripping us all off and hoping to cover his fraud with this new contract BS

It is also obvious that asking questions on here gets nowhere

[Lab_Rat]

From the past few days experience.  There is no way to answer questions on here reasonably as text becomes misconstrued and the individuals here are either looking to pick a fight or have been screwed over by too many people in the BTC community.  If you would like to email me, feel free at labrat@labratmining.com and if you would like to request a call feel free to do so by the same means.

It appears that the only way to attempt to gain the trust of those who will not listen is to just show people how it's going to be.  Please note that the Bonus will be paid out to all people who have transferred to the New Contract on May 10th and any and all Bonus that has accumulated or will be earned in the future will not be held for any individual.  You will begin receiving the Bonus at that time (if you have already accepted) or the time of your acceptance (if later than May 10th) of the New Contract.

I will be providing a link to the Old Contract exactly as it has existed since the beginning of the company via email, the website, and these forums as well as a transcript of the AMA and a link to the New Contract as soon as they are all prepared.

[Ashitank]

Lab_Rat I kindly request you to share with us number of what is exactly mining for you now , how much more will be deployed & what was purchased & what is to come , I dont think holding this information is going to serve you any more , it creates more mis-trust about what you did with investors money , time to open up & speak is now , take time to answer the question which have been posted .... now is the time !


Tip : I think part in new contract which leaves bonus pay to your sole discretion only should be amended in a way that doesn't leave us relying on you solely for Bonus.   Major concern for all bond holders is trust in you is lost , & leaving our returns in form of bonus at your sole discretion is not going to work , you need to change this term to make it better , I dont know how.

[Ashitank]

From the past few days experience.  There is no way to answer questions on here reasonably as text becomes misconstrued and the individuals here are either looking to pick a fight or have been screwed over by too many people in the BTC community.  If you would like to email me, feel free at labrat@labratmining.com and if you would like to request a call feel free to do so by the same means.

It appears that the only way to attempt to gain the trust of those who will not listen is to just show people how it's going to be.  Please note that the Bonus will be paid out to all people who have transferred to the New Contract on May 10th and any and all Bonus that has accumulated or will be earned in the future will not be held for any individual.  You will begin receiving the Bonus at that time (if you have already accepted) or the time of your acceptance (if later than May 10th) of the New Contract.

I will be providing a link to the Old Contract exactly as it has existed since the beginning of the company via email, the website, and these forums as well as a transcript of the AMA and a link to the New Contract as soon as they are all prepared.

Every body is asking you question straight-up in the best english they can (Non-Native english folks) , question are confrontational as situation demands , deal with it here.

[Ashitank]

And you base this on:

1) nothing
2) absolutely nothing
3) unsubstantiated assumptions
4) all of the above


Assholes? Seriously?
Not everyone can follow others in blind faith buddy. Especially after repeated breaches of trust. Scams happen all the time. How are you so certain you aren't being scammed? I'm rather curious as to if you have even read through this thread...

In your fantastic theory what exactly was stopping labrat from discussing these concerns you assume he had with bondholders? It's not like we have a thread on a forum where the company was started and discussion can occur. In fact the only person not willing to discuss much of anything at all was labrat himself.

My choice of word wasn't directed at anybody specifically, it is more of a general feeling that I (and I'm sure a few others) have about people spreading FUD since the beginning of the whole LRM project.
Oh and yeah, I read every since word of the thread since page 1, the day it all started. This might be pertinent background information.

I stated at the beginning of my post that this was my understanding of the situation, and I didn't ask for your input on it, or anyone else's for that matter.
This is the thought process that led me to ask this direct question to LabRat and is required for him to understand the meaning of my question.

I will no longer reply to anyone else about the content of my previous post. Thanks for your understanding.

No offense buddy , enjoy the bliss mode , once the trust based bonus doesn't appear for weeks over & no answer from lab_rat , then you will come down to earth , keep smoking the shit u are smoking

[Ashitank]

From the past few days experience.  There is no way to answer questions on here reasonably as text becomes misconstrued and the individuals here are either looking to pick a fight or have been screwed over by too many people in the BTC community.  If you would like to email me, feel free at labrat@labratmining.com and if you would like to request a call feel free to do so by the same means.

It appears that the only way to attempt to gain the trust of those who will not listen is to just show people how it's going to be.  Please note that the Bonus will be paid out to all people who have transferred to the New Contract on May 10th and any and all Bonus that has accumulated or will be earned in the future will not be held for any individual.  You will begin receiving the Bonus at that time (if you have already accepted) or the time of your acceptance (if later than May 10th) of the New Contract.

I will be providing a link to the Old Contract exactly as it has existed since the beginning of the company via email, the website, and these forums as well as a transcript of the AMA and a link to the New Contract as soon as they are all prepared.

Bait detected , what happens to people accepting new contract when you stop paying Bonus at your sole discretion after few weeks of accepting new contract , game over for suckers who fall for this.

You want to earn trust , how about paying bonus dividends in next week payout to current contract holders.

I get the sense you have pre-mined bonus dividend coins using the new hardware that came in & will be using those coins to payout bonus till at least those coins run out & then people can rely on your sole discretion I guess.

[countduckula]

Does the bonus you intend to pay what was mined with the hardware purchased with the 25% and 2 weeks take over BTC? We waited long enough for you to answer clearly and directly, there's no legal matter on that that you need to advise us. Also, that you just said, wasnt even clarified anywhere before, you're sharing information in irrelevant and its imposible to pick a road this way.

Maybe you need to start showing what is going to be, because you still didnt explain anything, unless you're daydreaming you did, we're all waiting on it for WEEKS.

[tempestb]

I think anyone who switches to the new contract is likely to see a decent return on their first few dividend distributions as Labrat tries to show how valuable it would be for people to switch and just accept the new contract.  Though it's probably not maintainable and subsequent contract profits will fall off for various circumstances.

The one subject Labrat has continued to avoid is the 150th of hardware that is on order.  Other than saying he is waiting on Monarchs, the actual number of orders seems to not be realistic given that he intends to use pre-existing PSU's for them.  Does he have that many?  Doubtful, so he must be getting fewer units than expected. 

I think there was a large portion of investment dollars lost or wasted.  I think that is what has caused this entire debacle.  He screwed something up or trusted the wrong people.

[sparky999]

From the past few days experience.  There is no way to answer questions on here reasonably as text becomes misconstrued and the individuals here are either looking to pick a fight or have been screwed over by too many people in the BTC community.  If you would like to email me, feel free at labrat@labratmining.com and if you would like to request a call feel free to do so by the same means.

It appears that the only way to attempt to gain the trust of those who will not listen is to just show people how it's going to be.  Please note that the Bonus will be paid out to all people who have transferred to the New Contract on May 10th and any and all Bonus that has accumulated or will be earned in the future will not be held for any individual.  You will begin receiving the Bonus at that time (if you have already accepted) or the time of your acceptance (if later than May 10th) of the New Contract.

I will be providing a link to the Old Contract exactly as it has existed since the beginning of the company via email, the website, and these forums as well as a transcript of the AMA and a link to the New Contract as soon as they are all prepared.

I emailed you a dozen follow up questions from the AMA you hv not responded to any of them as of yet. If that is your preferred method of communication that is fine with me but please actually do it.

[pontikis13]

From the past few days experience.  1) There is no way to answer questions on here reasonably as text becomes misconstrued and the individuals here are either looking to pick a fight or have been screwed over by too many people in the BTC community.  If you would like to email me, feel free at labrat@labratmining.com and if you would like to request a call feel free to do so by the same means.

It appears that the only way to attempt to gain the trust of those who will not listen is to just show people how it's going to be.  Please note that the Bonus will be paid out to all people who have transferred to the New Contract on May 10th and 2) any and all Bonus that has accumulated or will be earned in the future will not be held for any individual.  You will begin receiving the Bonus at that time (if you have already accepted) or the time of your acceptance (if later than May 10th) of the New Contract.

I will be providing a link to the Old Contract exactly as it has existed since the beginning of the company via email, the website, and these forums as well as a transcript of the AMA and a link to the New Contract as soon as they are all prepared.

1) That's just not true. There has been a plethora of clear, concise questions which unfortunately for everyone you chose to ignore while actually responding to the people who are looking to pick a fight. It appears to my simple mind that you may very well be trying to create the misconception that there cannot be any rational discourse here by carefully choosing to reply to emotionally charged posts containing wild exaggerated accusations while ignoring the questions and posts that could clear everything right up. Is it really that hard to see how this leads to ever greater mistrust between you and the bond/shareholders? No it is not. Another reason why I no longer trust you.



2) Please clarify what exactly you mean when you say the bonus will not be held for any individual. Perhaps I misunderstood. Are you saying that whoever doesn't accept the contract change within the next 10 days will forfeit the accumulated bonus and then all subsequent bonuses until complying with your new rules?  PLEASE tell me that you aren't trying to force people into accepting your new terms by way of coercion.
    
What is your reasoning behind this? WHY in the world should their dividends not be held? And if so what do you plan on doing with the dividends you steal from them by employing this scare tactic? This is rather disconcerting considering the fact that these dividends are right after a large increase in hashrate and will be one of the rare valuable dividends since difficulty will continue to rise....
    
We are growing VERY tired of being presented with these UNNECESSARY horrible dilemmas. Just hold on to the dividends you owe people UNTIL this is resolved. How difficult is that? Being honest is just as easy as being dishonest. It's a choice. You can still demonstrate your plan without just taking skeptic bond/shareholders money! Just payout whoever still trusts you and decides to move to the new contract the precise amount that is analogous to their rightful share and quit playing games with us...

[Mindsync Miner]

A possible remedy would be for LR to announce the size of the per bond bonus he intends to pay May 10. Of course it would be a minimum assuming 100% of shares switch to the new contract. Obviously it would be low ball because it appears many here are not prepared to surrender what they see as their bargaining rights by accepting the new terms.

I would assume that the sum of the bonus will be paid out regardless the number of eligible contracts.

[maqifrnswa]

There was an opportunity for LRM to come out in much better shape with the new contracts, but the opportunity was blown and LRM at the moment is dead in the water. Since LRM is surprised people are upset, I'll explain it in simply.

Prior to the new contracts, customers were turned off by the lack of transparency. No one knew what was being done with their investments. There was a mysterious management fee that was never defined (neither how big the fee was or what it went for). This lack of transparency and support was evident by LRMs lack of ability to raise further funds. (the pricing of those second round securities was poorly chosen, shockingly poorly chosen)

The solution is to replace everything with a nominal (and essentially zero) minimum hashrate per bond, and replace payouts with a mysterious "bonus" which is also not defined. Even if you have the best intentions in the world, financial agreements do not run on best intentions. They run on what is in the contract. The contract only says people will get 100 MH/s, so no matter what you say - or what history you give, the valuation of the security will be severely deflated. Add this to the history of changing rules midgame, and now using extortion to get people to agree to the new format (I won't give you proceeds from hardware you purchased unless you agree to this new contract I unilaterally changed). Courts are not going to look favourably on that attempt at extortion.

Unless you release regular financial statements (like ognasty) so people can audit and calculate what their bonus should be and verify that they are receiving it, you're making people have to trust you in a way that they would not have when they first invested. There is no trust in business, just contracts.

No other security, or company, in the world bases a financial contract that is the foundation of their funding on "trust me." No serious money would touch it, they would laugh you out.

As others said, if you want LRM to raise funds in the future, and avoid getting sued by your previous funders, you have to act like a real company.

On top of it all, you blew a lot of customer's money (yes customers, since you probably didn't do any FFF, self-funding, VC/angel) on lawyers with someone that doesn't have corporate formation/financial instrument/SEC/IRS experience. He/she might have had one of those, but that contract looks like something they pawned off to the lowest intern - or something you wrote and asked them to edit.

[Endlessa]

There was an opportunity for LRM to come out in much better shape with the new contracts, but the opportunity was blown and LRM at the moment is dead in the water. Since LRM is surprised people are upset, I'll explain it in simply.

Prior to the new contracts, customers were turned off by the lack of transparency. No one knew what was being done with their investments. There was a mysterious management fee that was never defined (neither how big the fee was or what it went for). This lack of transparency and support was evident by LRMs lack of ability to raise further funds. (the pricing of those second round securities was poorly chosen, shockingly poorly chosen)

The solution is to replace everything with a nominal (and essentially zero) minimum hashrate per bond, and replace payouts with a mysterious "bonus" which is also not defined. Even if you have the best intentions in the world, financial agreements do not run on best intentions. They run on what is in the contract. The contract only says people will get 100 MH/s, so no matter what you say - or what history you give, the valuation of the security will be severely deflated. Add this to the history of changing rules midgame, and now using extortion to get people to agree to the new format (I won't give you proceeds from hardware you purchased unless you agree to this new contract I unilaterally changed). Courts are not going to look favourably on that attempt at extortion.

Unless you release regular financial statements (like ognasty) so people can audit and calculate what their bonus should be and verify that they are receiving it, you're making people have to trust you in a way that they would not have when they first invested. There is no trust in business, just contracts.

No other security, or company, in the world bases a financial contract that is the foundation of their funding on "trust me." No serious money would touch it, they would laugh you out.

As others said, if you want LRM to raise funds in the future, and avoid getting sued by your previous funders, you have to act like a real company.

On top of it all, you blew a lot of customer's money (yes customers, since you probably didn't do any FFF, self-funding, VC/angel) on lawyers with someone that doesn't have corporate formation/financial instrument/SEC/IRS experience. He/she might have had one of those, but that contract looks like something they pawned off to the lowest intern - or something you wrote and asked them to edit.

Every single line of this, plus why do we not have the wallet addresses of ALL the mining proceeds... Trust? Have Faith? no way in hell I'm trusting anything that feels this shrouded. 

zero factual info on hash and current state of investment is available in any of posts and you want us sign away our rights to litigation.   If we question anything that makes us unreasonable?

[runam0k]

It appears that the only way to attempt to gain the trust of those who will not listen is to just show people how it's going to be.  Please note that the Bonus will be paid out to all people who have transferred to the New Contract on May 10th and any and all Bonus that has accumulated or will be earned in the future will not be held for any individual.  You will begin receiving the Bonus at that time (if you have already accepted) or the time of your acceptance (if later than May 10th) of the New Contract.

Just so we're clear, you want to attempt to gain the trust of "those who will not listen" by stealing their dividends?

This after having already decimated the price of their shares!  Yes, I am sure lots of people will trust you after this.

[daemonfox]

From the past few days experience.  There is no way to answer questions on here reasonably as text becomes misconstrued and the individuals here are either looking to pick a fight or have been screwed over by too many people in the BTC community.  If you would like to email me, feel free at labrat@labratmining.com and if you would like to request a call feel free to do so by the same means.

It appears that the only way to attempt to gain the trust of those who will not listen is to just show people how it's going to be.  Please note that the Bonus will be paid out to all people who have transferred to the New Contract on May 10th and any and all Bonus that has accumulated or will be earned in the future will not be held for any individual.  You will begin receiving the Bonus at that time (if you have already accepted) or the time of your acceptance (if later than May 10th) of the New Contract.

I will be providing a link to the Old Contract exactly as it has existed since the beginning of the company via email, the website, and these forums as well as a transcript of the AMA and a link to the New Contract as soon as they are all prepared.

#1 most ridiculous thing you have said to date... you can't gain trust by stating we will see why we should trust you AFTER we agree to the new contract.

You want our trust... publish weekly breakdown of LRMs status like you used to... and pay ALL CONTRACTS on May 3 with the claimed bonus WITHOUT us having to agree to the new contracts. Afterwards, if you still require us to agree to the new contract to get the continued bonus at your discretion... fine... but LRM needs to demonstrate WHY we should trust you PRIOR to being forced into the new contract... PERIOD.

1. Breakdown of LRM dividend and status EVERY WEEK starting May 3
2. Bonus is paid to all contract holders on May 3 regardless of agreement to new terms

Since you have posted you prefer email from now on... i will also send this to you directly.

[bigasic]

ITs only common sense to put everything on the table..

1. What is the total hashrate?
2. What is the estimated future hashrate?
3. What will this bonus be?
4. BE TRANSPARENT!

I don't mind signing a new deal if the deal makes sense. I wouldnt buy a car and have the salesman say "if you buy the car today, on may 14th we will give you a bonus on the interest". Who in their right mind would agree to that? The interest could be more or less or nothing. In the business world, EVERYTHING needs to be written in stone. Nothing can be left to guess work or that interpretation will be left to a judge.

We need to know the fine print. You cant just say "bonus". I may be mistaken, but it sounds like we are being forced to sign this agreement or we will miss out on this "bonus". That is coercion. Correct me if im wrong. There is so much to read and its hard to decipher whats being said and by whom. There are a lot of newbies that are chiming in.

I wont make any judgements until I see the final agreement.