-

[Flashman]

Seems like one of the major points they pick out there is that customers are in control of where the hash is pointed to, which pool/coin etc.

[oldbushie]

Okay, I just emailed Lab_Rat for clarification.

Assuming 100 "original" contracts:

Option 1:
They get converted to 300 "original" contracts with 100 MH/s each and not a hash more.

Option 2:
They get converted to 300 "new" contracts with 100 MH/s each with potential variable growth on top of the guaranteed hash rate.

This is keeping in mind that before the change, contracts were getting roughly 300 MH/s apiece on average based on the proportional rate (75%/25% split). So this is effectively a clarification change and nothing more, with option 2 being the better option. I agree that there should be a lot more than that amount of hash rate by now, but there have been a lot of unfortunate manufacturer delays. The outlook right now is a little bleak but I am hopeful that one day my investment will still pay off.

problem with this is you're taking a snap shot measurement on the eve of us receiving our largest hashrate investment.  These numbers are fine and dandy, except, we're just short of a large upgrade.  

Exactly what I wondered about.

Which is why Option 2 would be the better option in this case. It is my sincere hope that, much like regular stock companies, Lab_Rat continues to "split" contracts when he is able to guarantee a higher base hashrate. In fact, if that were written up in some form, I would personally feel a lot more confident. Otherwise it would be a bit weird to eventually have a base hashrate of 100 MH/s on a contract with 900 MH/s as the "extra bonus".

[LostDutchman]

Seems like one of the major points they pick out there is that customers are in control of where the hash is pointed to, which pool/coin etc.

You found it.

My $.02.

[Flashman]

Right then, since Zach is refusing to prove that the bonds are worth more than the current market value of about 25 cents each, pbmining's price/gh for 1gh being about $2.50 at the moment, let's do some math...


65,000 original bonds outstanding.
X 3
=
195,000 "short bus" bonds.

Market value = ~ $48,750

Assets of LRM

"Declared" (Admitted to, non-secret) hash of 18Gh or thereabouts...

Approximately equal to 300 60GH BFL singles      (Yah I know it's a mix, but I'm spitballing here)
Approximate current value on eBay, $200 a piece.
Approximate total value ~$60,000,          (better hardware consuming less W/GH should be worth more, used BFL Singles since they should be worst for that.)

Assets in orders, unknown.
Assets in other venturs, unknown.
Assets in Bitcoin, unknown.


Piercing the corporate veil... priceless.


So, what next?

[grnbrg]

Right then, since Zach is refusing to prove that the bonds are worth more than the current market value of about 25 cents each, pbmining's price/gh for 1gh being about $2.50 at the moment, let's do some math...

I'm not sure what your point is...

But I'll buy every contract you've got for $0.25 each.


grnbrg.

[Flashman]

100 Mh guaranteed, plus nothing that Zach will give shape, or form, or inkling of, let alone substance to.
=
100 Mh + 0
=
100 Mh

[grnbrg]

100 Mh guaranteed, plus nothing that Zach will give shape, or form, or inkling of, let alone substance to.
=
100 Mh + 0
=
100 Mh

So, are you selling?

Or is $0.25 each too low?



grnbrg.

[Flashman]

It's too low if the dumb fuck comes to his senses and puts something in writing before May the 10th... also too low if injunction for emergency relief issued, assets frozen, motion to charge Zach Dailey personally with mismanagement proceeds, all assets liquidated, even with lawyers fees, may come out above 25c ... so hodling to see what happens.

[grnbrg]

It's too low if the dumb fuck comes to his senses and puts something in writing before May the 10th... also too low if injunction for emergency relief issued, assets frozen, motion to charge Zach Dailey personally with mismanagement proceeds, all assets liquidated, even with lawyers fees, may come out above 25c ... so hodling to see what happens.

Sounds like the current market rate is much higher than $0.25. 

So you'll be editing the above post to reflect that?



grnbrg.

[solarion]

Just when it seemed this drama couldn't get any more ridiculous.

[grnbrg]

Just when it seemed this drama couldn't get any more ridiculous.

I'm here all week.

Try the veal!



grnbrg.

[solarion]

Just when it seemed this drama couldn't get any more ridiculous.

I'm here all week.

Try the veal!



grnbrg.

pass. tortured baby cow isn't really my bag.

the stench of tortured and betrayed investor doesn't really do much for the appetite anyway.

[Flashman]

Yes, I'm in error, current market rate for 100Mh/s of cloud hashing is 23.5 cents per pbmining @ 0.0053/Gh and coindex price index at $444 at time of post.

Maybe I'm being irrational holding them, and even giving Zach this much chance to prove me wrong, but that's the rational value.

Let's do a quick summary of LRM communications since October...

LR: You guys will see 1 or 2Gh shortly, if I keep reinvesting that may get as big as 10Gh, 100Gh down the road!
LR: Lulz, I totally lied, you suckers are locked at 300Mh split to 3x 100.
LR: But if you trust me and sign your soul away on this new contract, I might give you a bit extra, if and when I feel like it, BTW, IT'S MINE ALL MINE MUHUHAHAHAAA!!!!

How much over 25c are you willing to pay for that?

If you're up for buying at that price, pbmining link is on left of my sig.

[rangerbob21]

He's made his decision.  The choice we have now is to take action against him or accept it.  Talking about it or pleading with him to change his mind will do nothing productive.

Time to put this lying scumbag in jail or at least the poor house. Fuck you Zach, you are a scammer plain and simple. Again, fuck you.

EDIT... OK, a little strong here    ... but it was the only thing I could think of to adequately express my displeasure on the current state of affairs... I retract the tone (but not the sentiment) of my hastily and ill-conceived post.

[solarion]

This guy doesn't seem to prefer veal either.

[pontikis13]

@grnbrg


1) So what do you think (honestly) about  the way Zach has been handling the situation? Are you comfortable with it?
2) Are you satisfied with the (lack of) answers we received at the AMA?
3) Do you think it's OK to steal the dividends of all the investors that don't have faith in the almighty lab_rat? Since when is skepticism supposed to be punished?
4) What do you plan on doing if Zach doesn't have your best interest in mind after all and decides to put his own interest before yours after you have lost all rights to your investment?

[grnbrg]

@grnbrg


1) So what do you think (honestly) about  the way Zach has been handling the situation? Are you comfortable with it?
2) Are you satisfied with the (lack of) answers we received at the AMA?
3) Do you think it's OK to steal the dividends of all the investors that don't have faith in the almighty lab_rat? Since when is skepticism supposed to be punished?
4) What do you plan on doing if Zach doesn't have your best interest in mind after all and decides to put his own interest before yours after you have lost all rights to your investment?

1)  I think he has been doing his best to deal with the issues that were not foreseen in July last year in a way that A) Keeps him out of jail.  B) Fairly benefits the investors.  C) Keeps LRM operating.  And in that order, although B & C are closely related.
2) Overall, about what I expected.  I would have liked more detail on what hardware has been purchased, what has been delivered and what is yet undelivered (and when it is expected to arrive) but I didn't expect to hear that.  I have no "business" experience, but do understand that there are things that businesses keep confidential.  I also understand that he is limited in what he can comment on because "releasing information that is not mine to release would destroy relationships built with manufacturers".
3) In a perfect world, I would have preferred that a change in contract not have to occur.  Since it appears to be needed, then the new contract needs a start date.  Since (for better or worse) we now have all of the information we're going to get to make the choice, two weeks is not unreasonable.
4) I think if LRM fails it is far more likely going to be due to a lawsuit filed by investors who don't think they have been treated the way they thought they were going to be, than by Lab_Rat lining his pockets.  And if it does fail, I will be annoyed that yet another Bitcoin-related investment that I've tried my hand at has bitten me, but only annoyed.  I went into this with the attitude of "no more than I can afford to lose", and to date have seen at least some return on that investment. Admittedly less than "buy and hold", but I knew going in that this was going to be risky.  So as long as Lab_Rat isn't sailing around on a yacht that we bought (which I find highly unlikely) I'll chalk it up as an entertaining couple of years.

tl;dr In my opinion, I don't think Lab_Rat's intentions have changed since he started LRM, and I thought it was worth backing then.  I see no reason to do anything but continue forward. 

And the above is backed by ~1750 contracts.  I'd like to see some of the more negative posters volunteer how much skin they have in this game.  I know some of loudest have significant holdings, but not all of them.



grnbrg.

[sparky999]

FWIW I have decided to convert to the new contracts and have already sent a signed message to that effect. This is not an ideal situation but the reality is that any judgement in a court of law will be 2 years down the line and in U.S.$, the reality is that even if Zach only pays out the bonus for a month or so, you will be  better off having those bitcoins and holding for 2 years than getting the U.S.$ in 2 years time.

[pontikis13]

@grnbrg


1) So what do you think (honestly) about  the way Zach has been handling the situation? Are you comfortable with it?
2) Are you satisfied with the (lack of) answers we received at the AMA?
3) Do you think it's OK to steal the dividends of all the investors that don't have faith in the almighty lab_rat? Since when is skepticism supposed to be punished?
4) What do you plan on doing if Zach doesn't have your best interest in mind after all and decides to put his own interest before yours after you have lost all rights to your investment?

1)  I think he has been doing his best to deal with the issues that were not foreseen in July last year in a way that A) Keeps him out of jail.  B) Fairly benefits the investors.  C) Keeps LRM operating.  And in that order, although B & C are closely related.
2) Overall, about what I expected.  I would have liked more detail on what hardware has been purchased, what has been delivered and what is yet undelivered (and when it is expected to arrive) but I didn't expect to hear that.  I have no "business" experience, but do understand that there are things that businesses keep confidential.  I also understand that he is limited in what he can comment on because "releasing information that is not mine to release would destroy relationships built with manufacturers".
3) In a perfect world, I would have preferred that a change in contract not have to occur.  Since it appears to be needed, then the new contract needs a start date.  Since (for better or worse) we now have all of the information we're going to get to make the choice, two weeks is not unreasonable.
4) I think if LRM fails it is far more likely going to be due to a lawsuit filed by investors who don't think they have been treated the way they thought they were going to be, than by Lab_Rat lining his pockets.  And if it does fail, I will be annoyed that yet another Bitcoin-related investment that I've tried my hand at has bitten me, but only annoyed.  I went into this with the attitude of "no more than I can afford to lose", and to date have seen at least some return on that investment. Admittedly less than "buy and hold", but I knew going in that this was going to be risky.  So as long as Lab_Rat isn't sailing around on a yacht that we bought (which I find highly unlikely) I'll chalk it up as an entertaining couple of years.

tl;dr In my opinion, I don't think Lab_Rat's intentions have changed since he started LRM, and I thought it was worth backing then.  I see no reason to do anything but continue forward.  

And the above is backed by ~1750 contracts.  I'd like to see some of the more negative posters volunteer how much skin they have in this game.  I know some of loudest have significant holdings, but not all of them.



grnbrg.

I can see you have faith in Lab_Rat. I really wish I knew why. All sorts of scam alarms are going off in my mind because I can't find any rational explanation other than personal profit driven behavior for many of Zach's decisions.

Lets take for example question number 3 which you answered(?) in a very diplomatic way and logically go through this together. Perhaps I'm missing something.

Zach claims he wants to show those that won't listen how its going to be. What condition exists that prevents him from holding on to the dividends of those that are not yet prepared to accept the new contracts based on faith? I can't think of any reason. Can you? It's not as if faith is a common way of doing business anyway. Logic tells me that if he really wanted to show us how it's going to be in good faith he wouldn't steal our dividends. He would simply demonstrate his point and go on to allow others to convert to the new contract WITHOUT stealing their dividends. How do you explain this?


PS:  Don't get me wrong, I really want to believe. It's just that I have learned to only accept things in life based on logic and reason. Faith doesn't cut it for me especially when there are indications to the contrary. I'm not the religious type.

[Flashman]

The contract is also basically saying "Last chance to sue", combined with a drastic erosion of trust of late, exacerbated with the virtual kick in the balls of failing to post the contract significantly in advance of the AMA, this is not looking good.

I'm trying to say what it looks like when you take off the dark rose tinted shades and get down to the bare bones, stripped of all the happy clappy optimism.