[PRE-ANN] Stone - DAG Data-Structured Private Cryptocurrency

[fracas]

In Raiblocks, when there is a fork,  balance-weighted vote is used to determine the outcome through use of representatives.

How would balance-weighted vote work in Stone? cos certain amount of balances will be shielded if zsnarks are used

Finally, I think that raiblocks snapshot should be used for distribution as the majority of code will be from Raiblocks

Like that voters of XRB (that will have the same power in STONE) could easily make Stone fail with a 51% attack if they want. Not safe. And not fair too.

[cryptohunter]

Deep onions distributional method is the best and fairest

Reward those that promote your project

Free airdrops to people that contribute nothing are not as good.

[Watsuji]

In Raiblocks, when there is a fork,  balance-weighted vote is used to determine the outcome through use of representatives.

How would balance-weighted vote work in Stone? cos certain amount of balances will be shielded if zsnarks are used

Finally, I think that raiblocks snapshot should be used for distribution as the majority of code will be from Raiblocks

Like that voters of XRB (that will have the same power in STONE) could easily make Stone fail with a 51% attack if they want. Not safe. And not fair too.

My point is that balances can be shielded with zsnarks. Once a balance becomes shielded, it cannot vote.

One potential problem is that if say supply is 100million and total shielded amount is 95million (which is not unreasonable), the network becomes easier to attack

[Attilaloe]

Finally, I think that raiblocks snapshot should be used for distribution as the majority of code will be from Raiblocks

Can't say I can follow the logic. What most raiblocks holder (e.g. myself) have to do with writing RaiBlocks code?

[Attilaloe]

In Raiblocks, when there is a fork,  balance-weighted vote is used to determine the outcome through use of representatives.

How would balance-weighted vote work in Stone? cos certain amount of balances will be shielded if zsnarks are used

Finally, I think that raiblocks snapshot should be used for distribution as the majority of code will be from Raiblocks

Like that voters of XRB (that will have the same power in STONE) could easily make Stone fail with a 51% attack if they want. Not safe. And not fair too.

My point is that balances can be shielded with zsnarks. Once a balance becomes shielded, it cannot vote.

One potential problem is that if say supply is 100million and total shielded amount is 95million (which is not unreasonable), the network becomes easier to attack

It would be pretty easy to do zk-snarks based delegated voting. Your balance is shielded but you can delegate voting with some of it to some other node without disclosing it.

[Iced]

Watching this thread, I'm curious too see how things will roll :-) great idea felixando

[Attilaloe]

Hi there, we have not yet finalized the method of distribution, whether it will be a bitcoin snapshot, raiblocks snapshot, airdrop or some other method, i'm aiming towards even and fair distribution, if you have suggestions you are welcome to post your idea! i noted that another user mentioned it would be a good idea to do a similar process to what the ZClassic team are doing, which is merging ZCL and bitcoin snapshot together, there is a possibility i could do this combined with the donators fund, although it leaves the question of, is it fair? still very open to discussion.

Distribution method proportional to snapshot of some currency won't be distribute evenly, it would favor the rich. There is an option of normalizing airdrops (e.g. any address with positive balance will receive exactly 10 Stones), but it's not feasible for bitcoin-based currency where any distinct entity may have contol one address or millions. Would work with ethereum, though. You'll just have to filter out big ethereum mixer addresses which is pretty easy to do. So, normalized airdrop on good-looking ethereum addresses would work.
Airdrop faucet will be more or less fair and even, but it'll be a strain on community.
One more possibility would be to airdrop to identity management blockchains like Civic but those are unpopulated and will be for a few years more.
One more cool option is airdrop to some social network or other OpenID provider. Popular networks are full of bots and dead accounts, but there are a few that would be cool to do (e.g. airdrop to Github accounts, which are largely genuine nowadays).

[xibeijan]

In other news - development is going to plan, i have been playing with in-line transactions with great results with the added weight of zk-SNARK's, currently receiving 7s round trip response times for anonymous transactions, but with a alot of tuning i should be able to bring that right down to at least 3s - 600ms. I will also be creating a github in the very near future, id advise not to donate until then, if your slightly worried about the legitimacy of my project.

That's what I like to read about.  Could you explain what is an in-line transaction?
If you are serious about anonymity, then you probably want to make anonymity required.
Also, have you considered adding any kind of incentive structure for public peers, representatives or "miners"?  I think this is something that is missing from Raiblocks.
In terms of distribution, the 30% to donors + the rest airdropped based on forum activity number is probably the best way.

[davedavid]

I think the better way for stone distributions is by promoting the project to social medias etc, like helping it get exposure, like not doing the same thing again and again to the guys who owns the coins after forking it.

[harvw]

I think that the raiblocks snapshot should be used for distribution.

[PerfectCoinSeeker]

Many currencies have turned into oligarchies, with whales manipulating the pricing, as some of us have recently witnessed. We have a chance to make Stone The People's Currency. Let's aspire for the greater good. We have the chance to create an everlasting quick, private & secure utility of trade for all of humanity. Let's embrace this precious distribution opportunity.

[beaupain]

How can we remain informed on the progress of Stone?  Any Telegram open or other way of getting the announcements in? 

[Chris180BTC]

Many currencies have turned into oligarchies, with whales manipulating the pricing, as some of us have recently witnessed. We have a chance to make Stone The People's Currency. Let's aspire for the greater good. We have the chance to create an everlasting quick, private & secure utility of trade for all of humanity. Let's embrace this precious distribution opportunity.

It's been tried many times over in the past and all these coins have died. I truly want to see one succeed though.

[davedavid]

Hoping the developer will make a telegram group for the project announcement and development. This project is also worth following and should have a social media for announcement.

[zuzuca]

ok.. i like the style of the developer. seems honest. and dag is a great blockchain technology if you can say it is trully a blockchian asset.

[daunjuan]

https://i.imgur.com/MWXAmrP.png



Introduction


Stone will be the first DAG (direct acylic graph) data-structured digital currency with private transactions, allowing instant, fee-less anonymous transaction with high scaling (up to 7,000txs per second) Stone will be forked from the RaiBlocks codebase, whilst the chain is not near completion as it currently stands and it just myself who will be working on the project, i do not offer high quality illustrations & impressive marketing, what i do offer, however is highly scalable, private, instant a fee-less transactions, all on a decentralized network once the project is complete



Work Ethics


What i can promise you

• Dedication
• Constant updates
• a finished product
• a quality product delivered in a timely manner

What i cannot promise you

• Exchange listings
• Price increases
• Advertising
• False hype
• An unfinished product, i always complete a project.

This pre-announcement is merely just the beginning of a long path, the stepping stone for a great advance in an already amazing pre-existing technology. I cannot express enough respect Colin and his innovative idea which has solved the blockchain debacle, a incredible amount of work and dedication has gone it to his project and Stone will never discredit his efforts.


Methodology


I've been experimenting with the idea of using zkSNARKs, similar to the tech used in the ZCash cryptocurrency, this will prove to be a challenge since we are no longer using a blockchain, we are using a DAG.


a very short summary, zkSNARKs have 4 main ingredients:


A) Encoding as a polynomial problem


The program that is to be checked is compiled into a quadratic equation of polynomials: t(x) h(x) = w(x) v(x), where the equality holds if and only if the program is computed correctly. The prover wants to convince the verifier that this equality holds.


B) Succinctness by random sampling


The verifier chooses a secret evaluation point s to reduce the problem from multiplying polynomials and verifying polynomial function equality to simple multiplication and equality check on numbers: t(s)h(s) = w(s)v(s)


This reduces both the proof size and the verification time tremendously.


C) Homomorphic encoding / encryption


An encoding/encryption function E is used that has some homomorphic properties (but is not fully homomorphic, something that is not yet practical). This allows the prover to compute E(t(s)), E(h(s)), E(w(s)), E(v(s)) without knowing s, she only knows E(s) and some other helpful encrypted values.


D) Zero Knowledge


The prover permutes the values E(t(s)), E(h(s)), E(w(s)), E(v(s)) by multiplying with a number so that the verifier can still check their correct structure without knowing the actual encoded values.


The very rough idea is that checking t(s)h(s) = w(s)v(s) is identical to checking t(s)h(s) k = w(s)v(s) k for a random secret number k (which is not zero), with the difference that if you are sent only the numbers (t(s)h(s) k) and (w(s)v(s) k), it is impossible to derive t(s)h(s) or w(s)v(s).

(Christian Reitwiessner 2016)



Distribution

One big question which is still left unanswered, and may be for some time, is distribution, I am unsure of how the coin will be distributed at these early stages, but when the time comes i’m positive the community will assist with an efficient, fair solution.



Whilst i do not wish to run a crowdsale, donations are welcome and will go towards my efforts in development. Donators will be noted in a database & published alongside Stone's main announcement, your assistance will not go unnoticed, depending on the distribution method selected as a community, donators may be included as a portion of distribution, we must first select method of distribution and work from there. For now donations should be treated as exactly that, donations.


Bitcoin:  17rta6cBBcacwbjFuWmrCpaPDN3m4jX6et

RaiBlocks: xrb_3my3e88nzaorkhcbho91seniswjz7ksiu1ddkuuu5ue3q8exiian9ikhja4g

Ethereum: 0x4Ce0650EC058449F8b936733b12E945E443EC1bD


If you wish to donate - please send a PM the amount right beforehand so i am able to keep track of transaction ownership in my speadsheet.

Code:

:: DONATORS :: a share will distributed to all donators, as a way of saying thankyou.

hoolio  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0x8ef0ee17988bcc55f8263d54209a695de008427a2565da112b1247df0c37ad9c
Meatstick  |  https://blockchain.info/tx/fc6e3d5dfa3ad584d36c02f330a1e05adc3fab0e5f017f1b4144e9e270d2a8ae
fallengel  |  https://blockchain.info/tx/520c6cf01b0719380fdb5dc9881ace0474cfc5251206d28e8b57485c0797da2a
tedes  |  https://blockchain.info/tx/e83ea00dda5bc56b456f59475d146113125a262000e24a9dca8798c2c1996385
vsh  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0x5f6b2da906c116c725e7341a0380ab9f51fac39c831570b8715b70b8c9fdfb3e
rusbus  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0x30060b45cf09adeda02f9c42fd50479140c628380ee446f75377b86dd344974e
https://etherscan.io/tx/0xa751863c6fc4937fcb8d551ea01ad978005499f97d94abe2b9385a58bb27abec
emberedsword  |  https://raiblocks.net/block/index.php?h=827BE8F22956C11B56925A2AFA87D62140F2371A5482F14C88DF8E7D9FC3BFE6
Elated  |  https://raiblocks.net/block/index.php?h=B9049F25CDC58A8A1EB0A5BE16AB0935B2F42DC737F244597E55F9692A560916
deemcdee  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0x2dfdbf8fbf3a2f17fdc2564b4f66af1a83e827c944acbd19b720c106bdba0534
Modifeed  |   https://blockchain.info/tx/b9220112713e1d150e54f5d1e5542d608255acaa8ca91ca2fb92787e89a4d770
mohunr  |  https://raiblocks.net/block/index.php?h=39FA5FBEA3E185263762F4962FFDB27595BB8871DA1068AC4F4EAC3FA7E8CF09
vvorobets  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0xe6fd9be6c0f94e41faaf598227683a67572eba9bd4ca3269b2fb65f290f46dda
Greyfox127  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0x86d0bb3746e2e627fe742a09eb5531b9676bac39641de088816e1da28a61b0ee
KasaiRyane  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0x95af89dec1223b58a86d517ca40d12ba72f67b7b00802dc8758ba7d0ddae9faa
benben22  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0xde86eac7f84bd4d0f69f2751c1e021342d2914c066a4224df1e545306ed2edf4
gringoed  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0xde20f2eca360c92db1e394865ad99be0260d670f19d177120f9e2af5787e7996
PerfectCoinSeeker  |  https://raiblocks.net/block/index.php?h=BE98BEFE9ED9649313EF5A9D9BD79003651C38E6EC197FF0218471BE5B1EDE83
quad002  |  https://raiblocks.net/block/index.php?h=CFFA532C870C82CC364B8F2C912EF429A778E2A1768EC34B8AE0F4FFD85F13E2
greatk  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0x2dfdbf8fbf3a2f17fdc2564b4f66af1a83e827c944acbd19b720c106bdba0534
kfe0824  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0x9bd076280f50de54dfc9a3042f997736d46aae094eb5544bac7abfc4f7db4a9b
mrdaltro  |  https://raiblocks.net/block/index.php?h=820C9868CDFCA05BAF2E46CEDFADADC0C2E5D70A0CB42692AC1081AF6F67A5A9
n_xion  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0x1e31c4574e4a75f6b2f523b948c0ba990a638ac2daa3944dd8f6925fae99f73c
irfan22in  |  https://blockchain.info/tx/0cb0b6b191940496032d74f10ff8218186b14457ef7ae61c2550bd95f9d5a317
riccardop  |  https://blockchain.info/tx/c0bb46de4e2075385b362c902f4977caba17eab8c9798b35f0ef984c07ddf5e0
geostation  |  https://raiblocks.net/block/index.php?h=A431B6940DE860F867644DAC7FDA3AC9218970A12C8651E8588EA5855D1A961A
LAMNOID  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0x45d4adde9a53c802e2216492695ec3f807dcd8530f38661aa67909e25d729735
nonconformist  |  https://blockchain.info/tx/8bb58931c8183bf5277fca64233c769fd607a7e3e855c0209446ca5e5d43b5f9
gamblor80  |  https://raiblocks.net/block/index.php?h=820C9868CDFCA05BAF2E46CEDFADADC0C2E5D70A0CB42692AC1081AF6F67A5A9
cached  |  https://blockchain.info/tx/f4ea95f3d16e6e4036a952e42057081f806ebd12912c193636041bb5eca649b8
drkfvr  |  https://blockchain.info/tx/44d221f99ef294643c2389c8d65edbc58c09fee2bcba8dd049a1804053c32b01
prestosays  |  https://blockchain.info/tx/f77d5fbb9223bc2c4408afbbb8cb20077601e8d2aca2d85883151fd32e6ba516
cryptopathshala  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0xcec075d160072d67751ec85d3308d24bf901dc855b82556bc4457554a153bf52
TheTenIsDog  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0x2470cb583e51ef6cf7f1b0db3a68b69e33f7bf7a7bd04f4c6abe3e37cec01e68
tyz  |  awaiting confirmation from member
ehrightness  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0x45b7fcef53983264805b59b2a0f4d227757feb48e468932b25b48ecb1748d350
zenyfomax1  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0xa7c8708834afb27d38d2e367c07d764c9e65c026ba8650f027d5f75be836bd29
canadapharmer   |  https://raiblocks.net/block/index.php?h=F0092D46F4A0134C9CF96F30B7AB60B5488AB354F3B968C063DD140A6D2580B9
iAmCiaran  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0x234d876f6e0a5d21606f31f700a6494810fe51ad84fb47aa69d1e901e43e0ef9
snowboard789  |  https://etherscan.io/tx/0xd82d67de628e3932a35de9d0ad8346fdb777cfe44c634daeace6fcedc682bf89
CoinFreedom  |  https://blockchain.info/tx/ab3ce6e7c745eb7105d12e9b6073113956b8f86f3fa23bed3912d1e695c3daa5

Please note, this announcement thread is a pre-ann and is not complete, i will update as the project progresses.


Sources/Credits:
RaiBlocks Announcement: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1381323.0
RaiBlocks whitepaper: https://raiblocks.net/media/RaiBlocks_Whitepaper.pdf
zkSNARKs: https://blog.ethereum.org/2016/12/05/zksnarks-in-a-nutshell/
Bitcoin: https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Like the idea any twitter or similar so it will be easier to keep up to date?

[PerfectCoinSeeker]

I've updated stonecurrency.org/#support with various links to prospective community accounts, including github.com/stonecurrency once it's ready. I intend on giving Felix and trusted community members access to these accounts in due time. As always, any and all feedback is welcome!

[Kencha77]

..i noted that another user mentioned it would be a good idea to do a similar process to what the ZClassic team are doing, which is merging ZCL and bitcoin snapshot together, there is a possibility i could do this combined with the donators fund, although it leaves the question of, is it fair? still very open to discussion.

I would love to see this distribution model come to play. This will be an honourable gesture towards the RaiBlocks community and it's developers who worked so passionately on creating this beautiful code.
Distribution to Bitcoin holders as well will allow for additional exposure and overall fairness to a wider user base.

No way, why make rich people richer?

As I said, paying respect to the originators of this code by choosing a friendly fork.  I can understand the wish for a free-for-all airdrop and perhaps that can be incorporated as well. However, this is not just another ERC20 token on the Ethereum network that requires almost no development resources.

XRB distribution has been flawed by BOTs and that's the reason they stopped faucets:
- https://www.google.it/search?q=youtube+railblock+software&oq=youtube+railblock+software

Do you think distribution like that would be fair? Please let's Stone have it's own life. Projects are open source so anyone can use them and improve.

Nobody is asking for a free for all airdrop. But for a fair distribution. Give them to already XRB holders is not. Moreover most of them will go to XRB representatives (https://raiblocks.net/page/frontiers.php). Is this fair?

agreed, since we want wider and fairer distribution we should think of another way to do it

I'm also against this. We need a better (unique) distribution model which is fair and can get a lot of attention. Only if someone can come up with a better idea

[JamesMangan]

I think that the raiblocks snapshot should be used for distribution.

disagree - not a fair distribution, I don't think any snapshot should be used.

[Showlow]

@Felixando,
You answer many questions but many people have also raised the question about using escrow for donations and I don't see that you have addressed that. What are your thoughts?