[LABCOIN] IPO [BTCT.CO] - Details/FAQ and Discussion (ASIC dev/sales/mining)

[Ytterbium]

well, you know when a company has a bit of credibility when MPOE-PR tries hopelessly to label you as a scam.

that was a serious boost to the shareholder confidence in Labcoin.

I agree 100%.  Right after his little post I thought "wow, didn't he show this same distaste towards asicminer at one point?"  This was the biggest signal for me, and I bought up a shitload..

I remember him saying AM shareholders wouldn't make any more profit way back in March/April. That was the trigger that made AM go nuts.

And now, today, he makes his scam statement.  I think we'll see LC hit 10 btc, now.

and just for the record, I think he's really good at running an exchange that has no securities.

What happened? Not informed on this...

10btc? Wow you are bullish!! Can you elaborate some more on this projection? That would be x10,000 the IPO price!!

LABCOINS MARKET CAP SHOULD BE 22 million BTC!!!

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[drawingthesun]

 I think we'll see LC hit 10 btc, now.

Ok ok ok.

I think its time for the medication.

10btc per share equals a valuation of 100,000,000 Bitcoin.

I don't think Labcoin can be worth 10x the entire supply of Bitcoins.

[velacreations]

What happened? Not informed on this...

10btc? Wow you are bullish!! Can you elaborate some more on this projection? That would be x10,000 the IPO price!!

oh, just a notorious troll that gets butthurt whenever any security that's not on his exchange (99% of BTC securities are not) has a few good days.  He jumps in, calls them a scam, and stock prices soar.

It's the MPOE-PR effect.

I'll find the Wikipedia link...


(10 btc is a joke)

[velacreations]

I don't think Labcoin can be worth 10x the entire supply of Bitcoins.

well, they CAN, but they won't.

that number was from this thing they call humor.  You may have heard of it.

[drawingthesun]

What's the most active security on MPOE..........?

.......... Its MPOE!

That alone tells us everything we need to know about MPOE and MPOE-PR

[drawingthesun]

I don't think Labcoin can be worth 10x the entire supply of Bitcoins.

well, they CAN, but they won't.

that number was from this thing they call humor.  You may have heard of it.

Come on pal, the medication thing was a joke too! :p

However on a more serious note, if Labcoin is denominated in Bitcoin there will be a limit to how much a mining company can be worth. (unless they start mining other coins at some point)

Because the pie is in Bitcoin and the pie will get smaller and smaller on each reward halving there is a upper limit in Bitcoins to the potential valuation of all mining companies.

Of course there is no real limit on the dollar valuation of these companies. Labcoin could one day be worth 10 billion usd. But never 100 million btc.

[velacreations]

Come on pal, the medication thing was a joke too! :p

OMG!! 4 realz?!?!  get out!

However on a more serious note, if Labcoin is denominated in Bitcoin there will be a limit to how much a mining company can be worth. (unless they start mining other coins at some point)

other people have explained it better than I can, but share valuation is not limited by money in existence.

I won't start that discussion again, but if you look through some of the older securities around here, this topic has been discussed in great detail before.

[velacreations]

What's the most active security on MPOE..........?

.......... Its MPOE!

That alone tells us everything we need to know about MPOE and MPOE-PR

where do you think he got the whole "exchange owner faking trades" bit?

just go ahead and click that giant glowing "IGNORE" button under those tits...

[boyohi]

Seems like its safe to come out again. Trolls at a minimum. I back traced the picture and it seems legit. A Nikon D3200 is cool but I prefer pictures from a phone and with different angles. more pictures please. I know you Chinese have android phones.

[oxideNL]

Seems like its safe to come out again. Trolls at a minimum. I back traced the picture and it seems legit. A Nikon D3200 is cool but I prefer pictures from a phone and with different angles. more pictures please. I know you Chinese have android phones.

Aaah i get why you want a android photo
Clever bastard,.. geo-tag ofc xD

[superduh]

wonder why sam has been absent for some time - he should def pop his head in at least for a bit
ha my bad didn't see the thread from today!! so much useless crap in this thread.

[Mabsark]

Just to remind people of Labcoin's potential, if we assume equal profit to AM we get the following numbers:

AM
400,000 shares
2.712 BTC per share.

ActM
25,000,000 shares
62.5x more shares than AM
2.712 BTC / 62.5 = 0.043392 BTC per share

Labcoin
10,000,000 shares
25x more shares than AM
2.712 BTC / 25 = 0.10848 BTC per share

[damiano]

Just to remind people of Labcoin's potential, if we assume equal profit to AM we get the following numbers:

AM
400,000 shares
2.712 BTC per share.

ActM
25,000,000 shares
62.5x more shares than AM
2.712 BTC / 62.5 = 0.043392 BTC per share

Labcoin
10,000,000 shares
25x more shares than AM
2.712 BTC / 25 = 0.10848 BTC per share

nice

[bobboooiie]

Just to remind people of Labcoin's potential, if we assume equal profit to AM we get the following numbers:

AM
400,000 shares
2.712 BTC per share.

ActM
25,000,000 shares
62.5x more shares than AM
2.712 BTC / 62.5 = 0.043392 BTC per share

Labcoin
10,000,000 shares
25x more shares than AM
(2.712 BTC / 25)*0 (for how much they are hashing and selling right now) = 0.0000000000000 BTC per share

FYP

[AngelSky]

Isn't that a good time to dump ? 

[radiumsoup]

Sum of costs taken from sum of income is profit. Costs are easily controllable by not going with bleeding edge technology. Income is not easily controllable, but is dependant on the market, and the market wants hashrate regardless of the type of technology. If you can make a device that hashes faster NOW cheaper or at the same price as a "better technology" device 2 months from now, you will gain market share and therefore more profit. The key here is that the hash rate per chip is not as important as the cost of manufacturing that same hash rate with the cheapest method possible.

I don't think you're thinking clearly. Better technology is better because it's cheaper to manufacture (Per GH/s). Why else would people even use it?

Again, I don't think you see my main point - and I'm sorry if I'm not making it more clear, I'm not really sure how to put it much differently. You're arguing the merits of feature size (the "better technology" that everyone keeps talking about) as an automatic higher output for cost/watt, as opposed to total all-in cost of production. My point is that the all-in cost per hash is what matters, no matter what the technology is. I was only half kidding when I said they could use vacuum tubes if it made financial sense - if that's the cheapest way to get the highest hash rate commercially, then guess what the market will buy? Vacuum tubes.

The difference is the up-front cost. It might cost few hundred thousand dollars to design a 130nm chip, while costing about $2m to produce a 28nm chip.

But, the chips will cost (about?) the same per mm² to manufacture.

You can't say all that matters is manufacturing cost, and then say that feature size doesn't matter, because manufacturing cost depends on feature size.  The smaller the feature size, the cheaper the chips per hash.

Actually, no - the smaller the feature size, the more transistors per wafer - but again, if the engineering layout of the chip is better even at a larger size (which is what LC contends with their specific design), then it's absolutely possible to have a better hash rate at larger sizes for less absolute dollars (or yuan or BTC or whatever.)

Now, the one catch with that may be the demand for 28nm fabs.  AMD and Nvidia and lots of other companies are all going to be wanting access to a limited number of wafer runs.  So the cost for 28nm might be slightly higher then other levels. So 40 or 65nm chips may be cost competitive.

And, of course, there's turn around time.  Bitcoin mining, unlike pretty much everything else, time to market is absolutely critical.  One month of delay can mean the difference between success and failure. That's where 130nm tech is superior at the moment.  Labcoin may pay for all of it's 130nm chips, plus profit in the month or two before 28nm chips flood the market.

I think you just accidentally made my point for me after all. And again, Labcoin is not hanging their hat on 130nm - first comes proof of concept and getting the assembly process worked out so they can ramp up on the next best cost combination of size, time to manufacture, and design. It's not an engineering race, it's a business race.

And furthermore, the MFG price of the chips isn't that important, at this point.  Next year, though it will start to matter more.

But it is absolutely important - for investors with coins ready to drop on some company, all-in cost per hash (remember, they're not selling technology specifics to end users, they're selling hash rate) is very, very important to the success of the company. It matters now for people investing now.

[Multi]

Chinese people are still sleeping?

[Mabsark]

Here's some numbers for dividends based on share of the network hash rate.

BTC/Block = 25 BTC
Blocks/Round = 2,016 Blocks
BTC/Round = 50,400 BTC
Labcoin shares = 10,000,000

0.1% of the network hash rate
BTC/Round = 50.4 BTC
30% Reinvestment = 15.12 BTC
70% Dividends = 35.28 BTC
Dividends/Round = 0.00000353 BTC

0.5% of the network hash rate
BTC/Round = 252 BTC
30% Reinvestment = 75.6 BTC
70% Dividends = 176.4 BTC
Dividends/Round = 0.00001764 BTC

1% of the network hash rate
BTC/Round = 504 BTC
30% Reinvestment = 151.2 BTC
70% Dividends = 352.8 BTC
Dividends/Round = 0.00003528 BTC

5% of the network hash rate
BTC/Round = 2520 BTC
30% Reinvestment = 756 BTC
70% Dividends = 1764 BTC
Dividends/Round = 0.00017640 BTC

10% of the network hash rate
BTC/Round = 5040 BTC
30% Reinvestment = 1512 BTC
70% Dividends = 3528 BTC
Dividends/Round = 0.00035280 BTC

[laustcozz]

Here's some numbers for dividends based on share of the network hash rate.

BTC/Block = 25 BTC
Blocks/Round = 2,016 Blocks
BTC/Round = 50,400 BTC
Labcoin shares = 10,000,000

0.1% of the network hash rate
BTC/Round = 50.4 BTC
30% Reinvestment = 15.12 BTC
70% Dividends = 35.28 BTC
Dividends/Round = 0.00000353 BTC

0.5% of the network hash rate
BTC/Round = 252 BTC
30% Reinvestment = 75.6 BTC
70% Dividends = 176.4 BTC
Dividends/Round = 0.00001764 BTC

1% of the network hash rate
BTC/Round = 504 BTC
30% Reinvestment = 151.2 BTC
70% Dividends = 352.8 BTC
Dividends/Round = 0.00003528 BTC

5% of the network hash rate
BTC/Round = 2520 BTC
30% Reinvestment = 756 BTC
70% Dividends = 1764 BTC
Dividends/Round = 0.00017640 BTC

10% of the network hash rate
BTC/Round = 5040 BTC
30% Reinvestment = 1512 BTC
70% Dividends = 3528 BTC
Dividends/Round = 0.00035280 BTC

So.... If Labcoin hits 10% of their stated goal I am looking at almost exactly 2 year ROI on all the stock I buy right now.  Anywhere but bitcoinland those are astounding numbers.  If a 'real' company on the NYSE claimed it was going to do that no one would believe it.  If they did believe it would be absolute insanity with people falling over themselves to buy.  In a matter of hours the price would go up 10-fold.

People have got to stop expecting every company to be ASICMiner.  ASICMiner was a fluke, it will never happen again.  The ASIC boat has sailed and we can't expect insanely amazing profits from these companies.  We have have to settle for returns that are merely   really really good.

[keeron]

Maybe I am a noob, actually I am...but why are you looking at dividends as a way of getting the ROI? Isn't the share price important here?

If it stays on or above what you paid for (e.g. 0.003), you are good. Anything on top of that (and the dividends over the years) is just pure profit.

Here's some numbers for dividends based on share of the network hash rate.

BTC/Block = 25 BTC
Blocks/Round = 2,016 Blocks
BTC/Round = 50,400 BTC
Labcoin shares = 10,000,000

0.1% of the network hash rate
BTC/Round = 50.4 BTC
30% Reinvestment = 15.12 BTC
70% Dividends = 35.28 BTC
Dividends/Round = 0.00000353 BTC

0.5% of the network hash rate
BTC/Round = 252 BTC
30% Reinvestment = 75.6 BTC
70% Dividends = 176.4 BTC
Dividends/Round = 0.00001764 BTC

1% of the network hash rate
BTC/Round = 504 BTC
30% Reinvestment = 151.2 BTC
70% Dividends = 352.8 BTC
Dividends/Round = 0.00003528 BTC

5% of the network hash rate
BTC/Round = 2520 BTC
30% Reinvestment = 756 BTC
70% Dividends = 1764 BTC
Dividends/Round = 0.00017640 BTC

10% of the network hash rate
BTC/Round = 5040 BTC
30% Reinvestment = 1512 BTC
70% Dividends = 3528 BTC
Dividends/Round = 0.00035280 BTC

So.... If Labcoin hits 10% of their stated goal I am looking at almost exactly 2 year ROI on all the stock I buy right now.  Anywhere but bitcoinland those are astounding numbers.  If a 'real' company on the NYSE claimed it was going to do that no one would believe it.  If they did believe it would be absolute insanity with people falling over themselves to buy.  In a matter of hours the price would go up 10-fold.

People have got to stop expecting every company to be ASICMiner.  ASICMiner was a fluke, it will never happen again.  The ASIC boat has sailed and we can't expect insanely amazing profits from these companies.  We have have to settle for returns that are merely   really really good.