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Author Topic: BFL announces 28nm 600GH/S blade for $4680  (Read 39409 times)
Bitcoinorama
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August 17, 2013, 10:12:56 PM


Pahahaha this could easily apply to most of the forum! Grin

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Phinnaeus Gage
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August 17, 2013, 10:13:08 PM

Here's an idea to explore if you want a refund: Upgrade via a bank transfer, then the next day claw back all the funds.

It is bank wire (a specific banking term) not a bank transfer (a consumer term with no specific meaning which covers anything from ACH to SEPA to billpay, p2p banking, and bank wires).  Bank wires are generally irreversible.  I would recommend nobody try that.

Thanks for correcting me, D&T.

EDIT: I forgot the common after me, of which I just inserted. Have you noticed BFL's copy lately?
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August 17, 2013, 10:13:25 PM

Will be interesteing how many fishes they catch on this

 Hopefully approaching absolute zero if the experience of these forums has anything to say about it.
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August 17, 2013, 10:14:52 PM

We are talking about "efficiency" here my friend.

PCI is just perfect (from the average joe with some mobo to datacenter guys with cabinet)
No more exotic stuff.

So do this as an experiment.  Take a 4U case* and put 3x 7970s inside.  Max them out and start mining.  That would use less power than 2 of these mining cards.  Now tell me how easy it is to keep the temps under control.  There is a reason people starting using extenders and ghetto rigs.  More than 800W or so 24/7 inside a sealed case is pretty tough to keep under control without liquid cooling.

For the record though KNC decision to use a case which requires the PSU to be outside is equally stupid.  The stupidest part is if they used a larger case there would be more than enough room for an internally mounted case.

* If you don't have a 4U case a full tower is roughly the same size so turn it on its side and it is a good enough estimate for this experiment.  However make sure you seal any side/top/bottom vents as those wouldn't exist in a rackmount case.  Just cool it using fans at the front and back of the case and on the GPU only.

My mining room is air-conditioned. (some air-co are pretty cheap in second hand)

You can't put thousand of dollars in mining gears and neglect the IT basis.
I work on IT, so i have some reflex about gears running 24/7.

The only other design i found very smart is Bitfury.


For KNC now i ask myself...."Look at that PCI card from BFL...600 gh/s...the KNC case is so big...28 nm....seriously???"
DeathAndTaxes
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August 17, 2013, 10:14:54 PM

Could anyone explain how a customer can "transfer" an order but is not allowed to receive a refund because "the sale is final"?

That means, the argument "we cannot refund you because we already spent resources to build up your device" becomes a fallacy if an order "transfer" is allowed.

Because they are bleeding cash and need more of it.  
Giving refunds makes the situation worse.  
Upgrading orders makes the situation better.

In the US no sale is final until customer takes ownership, usually unless otherwise specified that is when shipped.  Now the seller can protect themselves by contracting a future date but if that date has passed and there is no shipment then there is no "sale". BFL "sales are final" would not stand up to a chargeback, investigation from FTC/attorney general, or a private lawsuit.   Sales may be final but there is no completed sale until product is shipped, only an order.
Phinnaeus Gage
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August 17, 2013, 10:15:05 PM

Jesus fucking Christ. Here we go again.

Christ? Yeah good point! Where is Christ Vleisides (whose name is on the incorp docs).

Can't find him here http://www.butterflylabs.com/management/

Dah! He's the one that took the pics of the others.
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August 17, 2013, 10:17:35 PM

PCI is just perfect (from the average joe with some mobo to datacenter guys with cabinet)
No more exotic stuff.

How is a USB connection "exotic stuff"?
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August 17, 2013, 10:18:42 PM

Will be interesteing how many fishes they catch on this

 Hopefully approaching absolute zero if the experience of these forums has anything to say about it.
Oh, no.

BFL may have just pulled off with outrageous, improbable audacity.  Audacity that is irresistible to many, many, greedy little idiots desperate for high hash power.

Nice job.  And are you even going to bother shipping the chips, now, BFL?  I doubt it; why do so, when the new powerhouse is just weeks away?  Force the upgrade of those (50% paid) orders to the 28's, with just a little, or even deferred to shipping, co-pay.  Sorry about your boards, BFL board designer guys.  You're about to be Avaloned.

Creeps me out, but it's only in storybooks that the bad guys always lose.  
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August 17, 2013, 10:20:16 PM

$7.80 per GH/S.  Shocked

I think the price may eventually drop to $1 per GH... or read as 100GH for $100.
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August 17, 2013, 10:21:39 PM

We are talking about "efficiency" here my friend.

PCI is just perfect (from the average joe with some mobo to datacenter guys with cabinet)
No more exotic stuff.
Ah "beauty" in that sense, gotcha.  I guess we'll see how things work out.

I seems to me that if you are a miner that orders sufficient quantity to need the efficiency you are talking about you'd rather have the whole unit designed for rack mounting so they can efficiently pack as much hashrate into each U of rack the product takes up.  Then again I'm not much of a hardware guy so my assumption might be way off and all you need is cards to throw in any box you want to maximize efficiency.

If not, and just a small miner (like me), then a box similar to avalon or KNC works just fine in my opinion.
DeathAndTaxes
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Gerald Davis


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August 17, 2013, 10:22:01 PM

We are talking about "efficiency" here my friend.

PCI is just perfect (from the average joe with some mobo to datacenter guys with cabinet)
No more exotic stuff.

So do this as an experiment.  Take a 4U case* and put 3x 7970s inside.  Max them out and start mining.  That would use less power than 2 of these mining cards.  Now tell me how easy it is to keep the temps under control.  There is a reason people starting using extenders and ghetto rigs.  More than 800W or so 24/7 inside a sealed case is pretty tough to keep under control without liquid cooling.

For the record though KNC decision to use a case which requires the PSU to be outside is equally stupid.  The stupidest part is if they used a larger case there would be more than enough room for an internally mounted case.

* If you don't have a 4U case a full tower is roughly the same size so turn it on its side and it is a good enough estimate for this experiment.  However make sure you seal any side/top/bottom vents as those wouldn't exist in a rackmount case.  Just cool it using fans at the front and back of the case and on the GPU only.

My mining room is air-conditioned. (some air-co are pretty cheap in second hand)

Who said don't use AC.  Keep the room at 72F for all you want.  The room being 72F doesn't mean the GPU will be cooled properly.  It is a simple experiment.  Try it.  Why do you think open rigs became the "standard".  You think people just like having extenders and cables everywhere?  You think it never occurred to anyone to just close the case with 3, 4, 6 GPU inside?   
BR0KK
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August 17, 2013, 10:22:43 PM

Woooah I see new possibilities towards a trade-in program....


BTW.... Now in multicolor:

Public Service Announcement:

If you have ordered from Butterfly Labs (BFL) and have not yet received your product, you are entitled to a refund whenever you request one (per FTC rules).

First ask Butterfly Labs (BFL) for one, they will probably say no but you might get lucky.
If you ordered via PayPal you can file a complaint with them even if you are outside the 45 day window. One customer has already gotten a refund from PayPal that was outside the 45 days.

If you ordered via BTC or Bank wire, you can fill out a complaint with the FTC and they will advocate for you with Butterfly Labs (BFL) to get your refund. You can also contact the office of the Kansas Attorney General and inform them that you have had your money taken with no product delivered for months, just more promises.

There are also several threads on how to get a refund from Butterfly Labs (BFL), here are two:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=266945.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=272585.0


xzempt
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August 17, 2013, 10:25:21 PM

hopefully not many fall for this.... its time for BFL to be shown as the crooks they are..
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August 17, 2013, 10:25:29 PM

BFL has now officially gone full retard. And so have their customers.
Bitcoinorama
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August 17, 2013, 10:25:36 PM

PCI is just perfect (from the average joe with some mobo to datacenter guys with cabinet)
No more exotic stuff.

How is a USB connection "exotic stuff"?

Or stuff that plugs in and runs independent?

At least with independent units you have a web GUI that you can access from anywhere.

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Phinnaeus Gage
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August 17, 2013, 10:25:50 PM



Really?  Why would it be PCIex16.  I get the idea of making it PCIe so using standard motherboards to densely rackmount.  By why PCIex16?  Using a x1 slot would allow more cards per mother board.
People still have those riser cable from GPU mining rigs Grin

PCIE x1 would work fine with riser cables.  BTW it appears it is PCIe x1 their photoshop artist just doesn't know what that looks like.

Quote
3 of these cards will make it 1.8T,  almost 1000x faster than a 2.1GH 3x5970 rig, is it really possible? Both 28nm tech, why kncminer consumes 1KW for 400GH while they can make it 4x more efficient???

BFL has been pretty consistently wrong about power consumption.  Every estimate of every product has been low and later revised to more realistic power consumption numbers.  Of course this has also resulted in numerous delays, incorrect parts, and redesigns too.

KNC simply says less than 1KW.   

Fine! Simple mistake by the photoshop guy, compounded by EVERY engineer at BFL approving the depiction. That be like a group of city slickers claiming they're going to start a horse farm and the photoshop guy offers up an image of an ass represented as a horse and not a single person on the team caught the error, probably because they were too busy jacking off to what they think is a horse.

Madness!
Loredo
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August 17, 2013, 10:27:00 PM

$7.80 per GH/S.  Shocked

I think the price may eventually drop to $1 per GH... or read as 100GH for $100.
Hell, I'll give you $1 GH right now.  Just pre-order with me tomorrow (no credit cards, no BTC; just wire to my Cayman account) and I promise to deliver the first Tuesday after New Year's Day.
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August 17, 2013, 10:30:39 PM

BFL has delivered only 11% of their queue.

They are offering credit swaps for ppl who havent recived their units for a 10% fee

They are offering pre-sales for this new product after clearly stating "Chip development is traditionally a 12 month process"

Draw your own conclusions

This will be worst than 2012 preorders

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August 17, 2013, 10:32:41 PM

I would buy it today if it was ready to ship product.

But realistically they will deliver it late 2014 (early 2015 if more problems) and at that time this product is simply overpriced.
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August 17, 2013, 10:34:29 PM

If Attorneys General don't stop scams, there's really only one way to do it.  That's for someone to advocate ("show and tell", step-by-step) for (American) victims in individual filings of Small Claims Court actions in their local courts.  

The thing about Small Claims actions is it costs the other (corporate) party legal fees to defend.  If they fail to appear, summary judgment is typically awarded.  When there is a cascade of judgments filed against a corporation, often even the most comatose or co-opted AG has to act.

I'd help if I could, but I can't.  So: just sayin...
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