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Author Topic: BFL announces 28nm 600GH/S blade for $4680  (Read 40321 times)
Ytterbium
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August 28, 2013, 08:49:28 PM
 #801

We're talking about 100% accurate predictions, not speculation.  Get it straight and then come back and maybe we can have an adult conversation.  But until then, when you start off with your entire premise being unrelated to the topic your quoting, we might as well not even have the conversation.

My prediction of your failure to deliver a lot of hashing power was accurate enough for me to make a lot of money.  

The key phrase was:

why were you not mortgaging the house, selling your mother and pimping out your cats and dogs to buy BTC? You'd be an @#$%@% idiot not to... yet you didn't, why?  

Hindsight investing is great, except it's a bunch of shit, which is why comparing the price in BTC of anything in August 2012 to something in 2013 is a bunch of shit.

Right, an "asshole idiot" (or whatever profanity you intended - I suppose 'fuckhead' works too)  

The implication, I assume is that people who were able to predict the price increase in bitcoin and didn't buy a shitload of it were idiots.  Except the problem is that some people predicted both that the price would increase and that you would deliver what you sold them on time.  It's only their second prediction that failed. They didn't make any money because they believed they would deliver.  

On the other hand, I predicted you would fail, and because my prediction was correct I made a lot of money.

As far as having an adult conversation with you, that strikes me as highly unlikely.  And why would I even want too? You're a joke.

I think a lot of your detractors are people who lost a lot of money because they believed in you, and they hate you because of it. But for me it's the opposite.  I believed you would fail, and I made a lot of money because you did.  Really I should be thanking you.

The only reason I don't like you is because I feel bad for all the people you've fucked over.

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August 28, 2013, 08:55:40 PM
 #802


It is not even a prototype correct? No gerbers? No BOM even? Just a drawing... what more can you say about it? Other than taking specifications they claim it will have and doing an analysis and then determining whether or not it is a good buy correct?

There's a lot to consider.  Pre-orders are open now (Yes, I know BFL's history, no need to discuss further) and early adopters of new ASIC technology have often been greatly rewarded for taking some extra risk.  I'm taking that little extra risk and have converted an April pre-order for a Monarch.  And now I want to read what other people think, specifically about the Monarch and not about BFL's well-documented history.

And since when do we wait to talk about a future ASIC product?  It's pretty obvious to me that any new ASIC announcement generates lots of interest and is immediately a hot topic.


Given what Death is saying in a comparison of the Asicminer Blades vs. 2012 BFL Products that have yet to ship... you might want to really rethink whether or not the Monarch has any value other than a thought experiment into a PCIe miner, seems to be hard to say anymore than that right? Forgive me but doesn't BFL have a forum for all this information. Why would anyone come here to get updated info on this product should you not go to the source?

BitcoinTalk has a larger audience.  But I do read and post in BFL's forum too.  I like to get as much information as possible.
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August 28, 2013, 09:02:28 PM
 #803

...and early adopters of new ASIC technology have often been greatly rewarded for taking some extra risk...

People who bought B1 or B2 Avalons, or ASICMiner shares did.  Not anyone who bought BFL hardware (except possibly people who bought very early and paid in USD that they otherwise wouldn't have spent on bitcoins)

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August 28, 2013, 09:04:15 PM
 #804

There's a lot to consider.  Pre-orders are open now (Yes, I know BFL's history, no need to discuss further) and early adopters of new ASIC technology have often been greatly rewarded for taking some extra risk.  I'm taking that little extra risk and have converted an April pre-order for a Monarch.  And now I want to read what other people think, specifically about the Monarch and not about BFL's well-documented history.

Let's assume that BFL does everything perfectly and ships the Monarch in Feb. It's overpriced. KnCMiner, HashFast, CoinTerra, and BitFury will have better products long before then.

Buy & Hold
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August 28, 2013, 09:09:21 PM
 #805


It is not even a prototype correct? No gerbers? No BOM even? Just a drawing... what more can you say about it? Other than taking specifications they claim it will have and doing an analysis and then determining whether or not it is a good buy correct?

There's a lot to consider.  Pre-orders are open now (Yes, I know BFL's history, no need to discuss further) and early adopters of new ASIC technology have often been greatly rewarded for taking some extra risk.  I'm taking that little extra risk and have converted an April pre-order for a Monarch.  And now I want to read what other people think, specifically about the Monarch and not about BFL's well-documented history.

And since when do we wait to talk about a future ASIC product?  It's pretty obvious to me that any new ASIC announcement generates lots of interest and is immediately a hot topic.


Given what Death is saying in a comparison of the Asicminer Blades vs. 2012 BFL Products that have yet to ship... you might want to really rethink whether or not the Monarch has any value other than a thought experiment into a PCIe miner, seems to be hard to say anymore than that right? Forgive me but doesn't BFL have a forum for all this information. Why would anyone come here to get updated info on this product should you not go to the source?

BitcoinTalk has a larger audience.  But I do read and post in BFL's forum too.  I like to get as much information as possible.

Yes larger and why we need to make sure that everyone is properly informed almost page per page on each thread in case they are new and miss the important tidbits that you might know but they may not. It be different say that a company was transparent and truthful in every post but obviously given what has happened in the past there are plenty of people looking out for the interests of the larger audience. Again if we had a subforum where information and the tone was PROFESSIONALLY kept then there would be no need to continually pop into a thread and set the record straight or inform people of the dangers.

You must recognize that and given there is NO INFO about this unit and that it is just claims and speculation at this post probably should be filed in a section that is not custom hardware but something that will be coming to market and warning labels BOLDLY affixed to it to protect people from the potential damages it may cause to the bitcoin economy because of past performance. We need a better system than we have currently for these sorts of posts from these types of companies but until that happens I guess we all have to deal with the discord it causes. If one is going to post vapourware... then you should be allowed to be highly skeptical on pretty much every page of the thread. Sorry it is only fair given the poor record for delivery.

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August 28, 2013, 09:12:55 PM
 #806

There's a lot to consider.  Pre-orders are open now (Yes, I know BFL's history, no need to discuss further) and early adopters of new ASIC technology have often been greatly rewarded for taking some extra risk.  I'm taking that little extra risk and have converted an April pre-order for a Monarch.  And now I want to read what other people think, specifically about the Monarch and not about BFL's well-documented history.

Let's assume that BFL does everything perfectly and ships the Monarch in Feb. It's overpriced. KnCMiner, HashFast, CoinTerra, and BitFury will have better products long before then.

Potential heat and power concerns as well given BFL has failed each time they have come to market... another big what if they mess it up again?

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August 28, 2013, 09:16:52 PM
 #807


It is not even a prototype correct? No gerbers? No BOM even? Just a drawing... what more can you say about it? Other than taking specifications they claim it will have and doing an analysis and then determining whether or not it is a good buy correct?

There's a lot to consider.  Pre-orders are open now (Yes, I know BFL's history, no need to discuss further) and early adopters of new ASIC technology have often been greatly rewarded for taking some extra risk.  I'm taking that little extra risk and have converted an April pre-order for a Monarch.  And now I want to read what other people think, specifically about the Monarch and not about BFL's well-documented history.

And since when do we wait to talk about a future ASIC product?  It's pretty obvious to me that any new ASIC announcement generates lots of interest and is immediately a hot topic.


Given what Death is saying in a comparison of the Asicminer Blades vs. 2012 BFL Products that have yet to ship... you might want to really rethink whether or not the Monarch has any value other than a thought experiment into a PCIe miner, seems to be hard to say anymore than that right? Forgive me but doesn't BFL have a forum for all this information. Why would anyone come here to get updated info on this product should you not go to the source?

BitcoinTalk has a larger audience.  But I do read and post in BFL's forum too.  I like to get as much information as possible.

Yes larger and why we need to make sure that everyone is properly informed almost page per page on each thread in case they are new and miss the important tidbits that you might know but they may not. It be different say that a company was transparent and truthful in every post but obviously given what has happened in the past there are plenty of people looking out for the interests of the larger audience. Again if we had a subforum where information and the tone was PROFESSIONALLY kept then there would be no need to continually pop into a thread and set the record straight or inform people of the dangers.

You must recognize that and given there is NO INFO about this unit and that it is just claims and speculation at this post probably should be filed in a section that is not custom hardware but something that will be coming to market and warning labels BOLDLY affixed to it to protect people from the potential damages it may cause to the bitcoin economy because of past performance. We need a better system than we have currently for these sorts of posts from these types of companies but until that happens I guess we all have to deal with the discord it causes. If one is going to post vapourware... then you should be allowed to be highly skeptical on pretty much every page of the thread. Sorry it is only fair given the poor record for delivery.

how many times has a knc rep come around to cuss you out? (bitcoinorama doesnt count Grin )  none
how many times does Friedcat come around to cuss you out?  none
how many times does hashfast come around to cuss you out?  none
how many times does Terrahash come around to cuss you out? none
how many times does Yifu come around to cuss you out?   NONE

Therefore, it begs the question, What were you thinking or total lack thereof?  If you put like that same 110% "i dont give a fuck about you or your problems" into better excuses for failure of delivery, I'd be willing to wager that you wouldn't get the level of opposition that you do.

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August 28, 2013, 09:18:34 PM
 #808

Potential heat and power concerns as well given BFL has failed each time they have come to market... another big what if they mess it up again?

No, no, Honest Abe, they won't make the same mistake twice three times.

Buy & Hold
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August 28, 2013, 09:21:10 PM
 #809

There's a lot to consider.  Pre-orders are open now (Yes, I know BFL's history, no need to discuss further) and early adopters of new ASIC technology have often been greatly rewarded for taking some extra risk.  I'm taking that little extra risk and have converted an April pre-order for a Monarch.  And now I want to read what other people think, specifically about the Monarch and not about BFL's well-documented history.

Let's assume that BFL does everything perfectly and ships the Monarch in Feb. It's overpriced. KnCMiner, HashFast, CoinTerra, and BitFury will have better products long before then.

I know it's wishful thinking but I have a very early pre-order.  And if indeed there is a "bullet run", I may be in it.  And that changes the ROI on the Monarch by a healthy margin.

Btw, I have orders with KnC and Bitfury too.  I'm still on the fence with CoinTerra and HashFast.
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August 28, 2013, 09:23:24 PM
 #810


It is not even a prototype correct? No gerbers? No BOM even? Just a drawing... what more can you say about it? Other than taking specifications they claim it will have and doing an analysis and then determining whether or not it is a good buy correct?

There's a lot to consider.  Pre-orders are open now (Yes, I know BFL's history, no need to discuss further) and early adopters of new ASIC technology have often been greatly rewarded for taking some extra risk.  I'm taking that little extra risk and have converted an April pre-order for a Monarch.  And now I want to read what other people think, specifically about the Monarch and not about BFL's well-documented history.

And since when do we wait to talk about a future ASIC product?  It's pretty obvious to me that any new ASIC announcement generates lots of interest and is immediately a hot topic.


Given what Death is saying in a comparison of the Asicminer Blades vs. 2012 BFL Products that have yet to ship... you might want to really rethink whether or not the Monarch has any value other than a thought experiment into a PCIe miner, seems to be hard to say anymore than that right? Forgive me but doesn't BFL have a forum for all this information. Why would anyone come here to get updated info on this product should you not go to the source?
BitcoinTalk has a larger audience.  But I do read and post in BFL's forum too.  I like to get as much information as possible.

Yes larger and why we need to make sure that everyone is properly informed almost page per page on each thread in case they are new and miss the important tidbits that you might know but they may not. It be different say that a company was transparent and truthful in every post but obviously given what has happened in the past there are plenty of people looking out for the interests of the larger audience. Again if we had a subforum where information and the tone was PROFESSIONALLY kept then there would be no need to continually pop into a thread and set the record straight or inform people of the dangers.

You must recognize that and given there is NO INFO about this unit and that it is just claims and speculation at this post probably should be filed in a section that is not custom hardware but something that will be coming to market and warning labels BOLDLY affixed to it to protect people from the potential damages it may cause to the bitcoin economy because of past performance. We need a better system than we have currently for these sorts of posts from these types of companies but until that happens I guess we all have to deal with the discord it causes. If one is going to post vapourware... then you should be allowed to be highly skeptical on pretty much every page of the thread. Sorry it is only fair given the poor record for delivery.

how many times has a knc rep come around to cuss you out? (bitcoinorama doesnt count Grin )  none
how many times does Friedcat come around to cuss you out?  none
how many times does hashfast come around to cuss you out?  none
how many times does Terrahash come around to cuss you out? none
how many times does Yifu come around to cuss you out?   NONE

Therefore, it begs the question, What were you thinking or total lack thereof?  If you put like that same 110% "i dont give a fuck about you or your problems" into better excuses for failure of delivery, I'd be willing to wager that you wouldn't get the level of opposition that you do.

The moderators need to do something more in keeping with moderation particularly with Josh. It is out of hand he needs to be warned and or sanctioned there are some legitimate concerns being offered and abuse is the problem of the day right? So warn him please.

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August 28, 2013, 09:34:08 PM
 #811

There's a lot to consider.  Pre-orders are open now (Yes, I know BFL's history, no need to discuss further) and early adopters of new ASIC technology have often been greatly rewarded for taking some extra risk.  I'm taking that little extra risk and have converted an April pre-order for a Monarch.  And now I want to read what other people think, specifically about the Monarch and not about BFL's well-documented history.

Let's assume that BFL does everything perfectly and ships the Monarch in Feb. It's overpriced. KnCMiner, HashFast, CoinTerra, and BitFury will have better products long before then.

Potential heat and power concerns as well given BFL has failed each time they have come to market... another big what if they mess it up again?

And why is it so ridiculous to think they may have learned from past mistakes?

Btw, I know I'm being contrary to popular opinion here and I would like to thank you guys for not calling me a sock puppet or a shill... yet.  Wink
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August 28, 2013, 10:08:45 PM
 #812

And why is it so ridiculous to think they may have learned from past mistakes?

They keep repeating the same mistakes.

1. The form factor. They keep trying to cram as much heat as possible into as small an enclosure as possible. Nvidia and AMD have trouble venting so much heat in such a package. BFL now has better cooling designers than Nvidia and AMD?
2. Feature size. 28nm ASICS are much harder to get right than 65nm ASICs. Look at how long they took for 65nm and double it. That's what it's going to take.
3. Progress? Ooh, they have a 3D model of a video card. Underimpressed. Tapeout hasn't happened. There's tons to do even after they reach tapeout.
and so many more reasons.

Buy & Hold
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August 28, 2013, 10:14:02 PM
 #813

There's a lot to consider.  Pre-orders are open now (Yes, I know BFL's history, no need to discuss further) and early adopters of new ASIC technology have often been greatly rewarded for taking some extra risk.  I'm taking that little extra risk and have converted an April pre-order for a Monarch.  And now I want to read what other people think, specifically about the Monarch and not about BFL's well-documented history.

Let's assume that BFL does everything perfectly and ships the Monarch in Feb. It's overpriced. KnCMiner, HashFast, CoinTerra, and BitFury will have better products long before then.

Potential heat and power concerns as well given BFL has failed each time they have come to market... another big what if they mess it up again?

And why is it so ridiculous to think they may have learned from past mistakes?

Btw, I know I'm being contrary to popular opinion here and I would like to thank you guys for not calling me a sock puppet or a shill... yet.  Wink
You aren't much welcome on BFL forums either.

You don't qualify as a shill. I disown you.


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August 28, 2013, 10:16:30 PM
 #814

There's a lot to consider.  Pre-orders are open now (Yes, I know BFL's history, no need to discuss further) and early adopters of new ASIC technology have often been greatly rewarded for taking some extra risk.  I'm taking that little extra risk and have converted an April pre-order for a Monarch.  And now I want to read what other people think, specifically about the Monarch and not about BFL's well-documented history.

Let's assume that BFL does everything perfectly and ships the Monarch in Feb. It's overpriced. KnCMiner, HashFast, CoinTerra, and BitFury will have better products long before then.

I know it's wishful thinking but I have a very early pre-order.  And if indeed there is a "bullet run", I may be in it.  And that changes the ROI on the Monarch by a healthy margin.

Btw, I have orders with KnC and Bitfury too.  I'm still on the fence with CoinTerra and HashFast.
They (BFL) had a bullet run in November-December of 2012.

That didn't do them any good. (Assuming that wasn't a lie of course.)


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smart-ticket protocol for events
live product with market traction!
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August 28, 2013, 10:29:25 PM
 #815

And why is it so ridiculous to think they may have learned from past mistakes?

They keep repeating the same mistakes.

1. The form factor. They keep trying to cram as much heat as possible into as small an enclosure as possible. Nvidia and AMD have trouble venting so much heat in such a package. BFL now has better cooling designers than Nvidia and AMD?
2. Feature size. 28nm ASICS are much harder to get right than 65nm ASICs. Look at how long they took for 65nm and double it. That's what it's going to take.
3. Progress? Ooh, they have a 3D model of a video card. Underimpressed. Tapeout hasn't happened. There's tons to do even after they reach tapeout.
and so many more reasons.


I was in on the FPGA fiasco,BFL underestimated the power & overestimated the hashrate & were very late to deliver..........remember the "4-6 weeks™" motto  Huh

Josh promised the ASIC era was going to be different,it was different,they were even later to deliver.Along with underestimating the power again!!! The hashrate,not so much this time.Down to "2 weeks™",but many,many,many 2 week periods  Cheesy

I have no doubts the Monarch era will be the same or worse than the 65nm project  Roll Eyes

"If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day long, you are the asshole."  -Raylan Givens
Got GOXXED ?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KiqRpPiJAU&feature=youtu.be
"An ASIC being late is perfectly normal, predictable, and legal..."Hashfast & BFL slogan Smiley
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August 29, 2013, 03:23:53 AM
 #816

Until they actually have a product these posts should be moved to mining speculation right?
Custom hardware should be about something that is actually has been designed and going to fabricated right?

I see the DIYers as the proper model for posting in custom hardware. See BKK or Alten or Burning for an excellent example of what the community should see as the project moves forward.

Offer a template and then a design is built and shown then testing happens and finally boards are produced and revisions made. Companies need to offer more than a picture and made up specification taken from the air and not based on real documented components.

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August 29, 2013, 03:42:57 AM
 #817

Until they actually have a product these posts should be moved to mining speculation right?
Custom hardware should be about something that is actually has been designed and going to fabricated right?

I see the DIYers as the proper model for posting in custom hardware. See BKK or Alten or Burning for an excellent example of what the community should see as the project moves forward.

Offer a template and then a design is built and shown then testing happens and finally boards are produced and revisions made. Companies need to offer more than a picture and made up specification taken from the air and not based on real documented components.

I don't think its realistic to expect a company to provide anything more than specs for upcoming products. Intel doesn't release board designs for products, etc.
Although I do think its a good idea to have subforums dedicated to companies that are selling ASIC. So far that would be folks like Avalon, BFL, ASICMiner.

And speculation forums for KNCMiner, Hashfast, etc.

And then a DIY for people making their own boards.

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August 29, 2013, 03:51:47 AM
 #818

Until they actually have a product these posts should be moved to mining speculation right?
Custom hardware should be about something that is actually has been designed and going to fabricated right?

I see the DIYers as the proper model for posting in custom hardware. See BKK or Alten or Burning for an excellent example of what the community should see as the project moves forward.

Offer a template and then a design is built and shown then testing happens and finally boards are produced and revisions made. Companies need to offer more than a picture and made up specification taken from the air and not based on real documented components.

I don't think its realistic to expect a company to provide anything more than specs for upcoming products. Intel doesn't release board designs for products, etc.

Are you kidding? Of course they do.  How do you think people figure out how to build motherboards and laptops with Intel chips in them without reference designs? The whole "ultrabook" thing is just an Intel reference design. AMD does the same thing with their GPUs. (and CPUs obviously)

nexus99
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August 29, 2013, 03:54:09 AM
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I cant remember the last time I have seen schematics for a TV, or a refrigerator, or a new video card, or a car, or a Blu Ray player or... I think you get the point. Companies sell you a product. They don't give you a PCB diagram before they sell it to you.
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August 29, 2013, 03:58:11 AM
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Until they actually have a product these posts should be moved to mining speculation right?
Custom hardware should be about something that is actually has been designed and going to fabricated right?

I see the DIYers as the proper model for posting in custom hardware. See BKK or Alten or Burning for an excellent example of what the community should see as the project moves forward.

Offer a template and then a design is built and shown then testing happens and finally boards are produced and revisions made. Companies need to offer more than a picture and made up specification taken from the air and not based on real documented components.

I don't think its realistic to expect a company to provide anything more than specs for upcoming products. Intel doesn't release board designs for products, etc.
Although I do think its a good idea to have subforums dedicated to companies that are selling ASIC. So far that would be folks like Avalon, BFL, ASICMiner.

And speculation forums for KNCMiner, Hashfast, etc.

And then a DIY for people making their own boards.



I think there should be a MINIMUM standard for declaring a new product or it should be moved to a VAPOURWARE section. Please... a picture and some napkin scrolled specs is not anything close to real design or evidence this is even a feasible concept. Take a look at what KnC and HashFast provided? Are there not actually designs? Real work on the chips they proposed? Compared to just a picture and some specs? I think we have rightly called scam on such types of posts before. Really needs to be some moderation with this regard. If it is VAPOURWARE it needs to be moved.

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