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Author Topic: BFL announces 28nm 600GH/S blade for $4680  (Read 40321 times)
creativex
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August 27, 2013, 08:27:08 PM

Can't help but laugh at bfl still trying to put on a brave face. Really once you've used avalon I'm not really sure why anyone would bother with bfl. Whether they can be trusted to produce is not really a question of interest when they can't produce when they say they will. Until they have that trust they will always be in the shadows of avalon.

How are those batch #3 Avalons coming along?  Cheesy

Splendid thanks. They overclock like madmen...



I have results from 2 more batch3s, 2 batch2s, and 4 batch1s if you're interested.

Edit: In case you're having trouble making that out, it says 112GH/s from a unit sold as an 87Gh/s rig.

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August 27, 2013, 08:28:36 PM

Can't help but laugh at bfl still trying to put on a brave face. Really once you've used avalon I'm not really sure why anyone would bother with bfl. Whether they can be trusted to produce is not really a question of interest when they can't produce when they say they will. Until they have that trust they will always be in the shadows of avalon.

How are those batch #3 Avalons coming along?  Cheesy

Splendid thanks. They overclock like madmen...



I have results from 2 more batch3s, 2 batch2s, and 4 batch1s if you're interested.
I am interested? What is the thread link?

If you overclock a BFL unit "that much" you would probably burn a hole through the table, carpet and then the subfloor or basement foundation. Might even become a china syndrome. (Well if the chord lasts that long)


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Flying Hellfish
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August 27, 2013, 08:29:24 PM

Can't help but laugh at bfl still trying to put on a brave face. Really once you've used avalon I'm not really sure why anyone would bother with bfl. Whether they can be trusted to produce is not really a question of interest when they can't produce when they say they will. Until they have that trust they will always be in the shadows of avalon.

How are those batch #3 Avalons coming along?  Cheesy
Quite well, some people are reporting 95GH/s from them.


And the longer BFL takes to fill all backorders and the longer Avalon bulk chips are delayed the more profit B3 owners will reap, not to mention if KNC, HF, CT et all are delayed as well.
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August 27, 2013, 08:38:46 PM

Can't help but laugh at bfl still trying to put on a brave face. Really once you've used avalon I'm not really sure why anyone would bother with bfl. Whether they can be trusted to produce is not really a question of interest when they can't produce when they say they will. Until they have that trust they will always be in the shadows of avalon.

A) the number of Avalon's released is a small fraction of the number shipped from BFL. People ordered BFL because Avalon didn't have product to ship.

*ANY* proof at all? ...or is this just re-hashing BFL's COO's fairy dust nonsense? As BFL refuses to issue numbers I'd be very interested in seeing your detailed breakdown upon which you made the above statement.

Quote
B) their prices are far more price-competitive than Avalon's.

Unless of course you factor in lead time. Then BFL's prices flat out suck and you'd likely have made much more by ordering from Avalon than BFL. You don't see many batch 1 or batch 2 pre-order customers complaining do you? Why do you suppose that is?

Quote
Not saying that people that went the Avalon route did bad. Indeed, they did great. But both routes were untested, the outcomes unknown in 2012. As for today? What can you order from Avalon? Anything besides raw chips? And aren't those having difficulty reaching their destination (not FUD, trully sounds like that's been the case).

Both outcomes were unknown in 2012, though both companies had FPGA products in the wild and one of those companies already had a history of deceit. If you sent equal funds to both companies in 2012 which do you suppose made you the highest ROI? How about 2013?

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August 27, 2013, 08:47:26 PM

Can't help but laugh at bfl still trying to put on a brave face. Really once you've used avalon I'm not really sure why anyone would bother with bfl. Whether they can be trusted to produce is not really a question of interest when they can't produce when they say they will. Until they have that trust they will always be in the shadows of avalon.

How are those batch #3 Avalons coming along?  Cheesy

Splendid thanks. They overclock like madmen...

I have results from 2 more batch3s, 2 batch2s, and 4 batch1s if you're interested.
I am interested? What is the thread link?

If you overclock a BFL unit "that much" you would probably burn a hole through the table, carpet and then the subfloor or basement foundation. Might even become a china syndrome. (Well if the chord lasts that long)

Sadly BFL stuff is not easily overclockable. I'm averaging about 715Gh/s from 1 minirig SC and 4 Singles(think 12 singles), but they're *HOT* and require 10x the attention the 9 Avalons do. I have two AC units cooling them(32k BTU) and they still overwhelm the ACs during the day.

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August 27, 2013, 08:51:34 PM

Can't help but laugh at bfl still trying to put on a brave face. Really once you've used avalon I'm not really sure why anyone would bother with bfl. Whether they can be trusted to produce is not really a question of interest when they can't produce when they say they will. Until they have that trust they will always be in the shadows of avalon.

How are those batch #3 Avalons coming along?  Cheesy

Splendid thanks. They overclock like madmen...

I have results from 2 more batch3s, 2 batch2s, and 4 batch1s if you're interested.
I am interested? What is the thread link?

If you overclock a BFL unit "that much" you would probably burn a hole through the table, carpet and then the subfloor or basement foundation. Might even become a china syndrome. (Well if the chord lasts that long)

Sadly BFL stuff is not easily overclockable. I'm averaging about 715Gh/s from 1 minirig SC and 4 Singles(think 12 singles), but they're *HOT* and require 10x the attention the 9 Avalons do. I have two AC units cooling them(32k BTU) and they still overwhelm the ACs during the day.
How much power does it take to run the avalons when they are that overclocked?

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I embrace my inner Kool-Aid.
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August 27, 2013, 08:55:53 PM

Jody just "bitch slapped" a customer then put their funds towards a product they didn't order.


https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/3675-refund-policy-15.html#post54727


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August 27, 2013, 08:59:08 PM

Jody just "bitch slapped" a customer then put their funds towards a product they didn't order.



It looks like the old generation is now defunct. You can no longer order old BFL hardware. It has reach EOL (End of Life).

 Grand Theft: Butterfly Labs unless they refund the money.

 Discontinued on April 4th 2013, but still continued with pre-orders for the same generation after that ? I give up.


 *shrugs*
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August 27, 2013, 09:00:57 PM

Jody just "bitch slapped" a customer then put their funds towards a product they didn't order.



It looks like the old generation is now defunct. You can no longer order old BFL hardware. It has reach EOL (End of Life).

 Grand Theft: Butterfly Labs
I edited my post, I misinterpreted the terse response by jody.

It appears that the man tried to order two singles for the old rate. So Jody corrected it by putting him down for 1 order at the new rate, telling him he cannot get his money back in the process. Which obviously upset the customer.

Who is now demanding a refund. (The customer holds some blame...GOOD WORK JODY haha)

Edit: Who knows what is right or wrong in such a situation...honestly.

The snazzy guy trying to get the old rate, or the general manager who takes his money and gives him only one unit even though it is obviously not what he wanted....)


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August 27, 2013, 09:03:46 PM

It appears that the man tried to order two singles for the old rate. So Jody corrected it by putting him down for 1 order at the new rate, telling him he cannot get his money back in the process. Which obviously upset the customer.

Who is now demanding a refund. (The customer holds some blame...)

 What a mess in that house.
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August 27, 2013, 09:05:42 PM

Jody just "bitch slapped" a customer then put their funds towards a product they didn't order.



It looks like the old generation is now defunct. You can no longer order old BFL hardware. It has reach EOL (End of Life).

  Grand Theft: Butterfly Labs unless they refund the money.

 Discontinued on April 4th 2013, but still continued with pre-orders for the same generation after that ? I give up.


She's referring to the 60GH/s Single which was discontinued in April and replaced with the 50GH/s Single.  You can still order that generation of products from BFL.

The guy you quoted was trying to pay for a legitimately discontinued item months after it was no longer available.
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August 27, 2013, 09:07:32 PM

Jody just "bitch slapped" a customer then put their funds towards a product they didn't order.



It looks like the old generation is now defunct. You can no longer order old BFL hardware. It has reach EOL (End of Life).

  Grand Theft: Butterfly Labs unless they refund the money.

 Discontinued on April 4th 2013, but still continued with pre-orders for the same generation after that ? I give up.


She's referring to the 60GH/s Single which was discontinued in April and replaced with the 50GH/s Single.  You can still order that generation of products from BFL.

The guy you quoted was trying to pay for a legitimately discontinued item months after it was no longer available.
Already beat you to the punch. (notice the edits above)


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August 27, 2013, 09:07:56 PM


RoI is the fiction of the greedy.


No, it's entirely real.  Did you miss the part where I told you my batch 2 avalon has paid for itself, In bitcoin?  

I spent bitcoins I had because I wanted more bitcoins then I started with, and now, I have them.

Quote
If difficulty is 1,000,000,000 when you get your unit, simply REFUSE to sell at current prices that equal a loss.  If more and more people do this, the pirice WILL rise.

Which doesn't matter if your goal was to increase the number of bitcoins you have. Which I told you, is the reason I bought an ASIC. Otherwise I would have just kept my bitcoins.

Quote
On the other hand, you are saying it's quite alright to fuck over the customer if there is such an artificially high demand and you charge then $1,000,000 for less hash than a mini-rig costing $30k.  SURE you get them in hand NOW, but damn you got ass-raped in the process.

What the fuck are you talking about?  In may of 2011 $1 million dollars could have bought you more then 1.5TH/s. If you'd kept the money the bitcoins you mined would probably be worth $50-100 million dollars.  

The timing matters.  In fact, I think, but I haven't done the math - if you'd spent $1 million dollars on GPUs in June of 2012 instead of spending $30k on a BFL mini-rig, you'd actually have already made a profit by now, given the price increase.  That's the incredible irony of this.   The people who ordered Mini-rigs at that point in time would have been better off buying GPUs.

I agree people shouldn't buy block erupters expecting to get an ROI. I think most people just buy them for fun.

Quote
Quote
Of course it's BFL's fault. They had faulty information because BFL withheld that information. That was no way to know what effect the other orders would have because BFL chose not to share that information with them.  Which is why I decided not to order from them last year, and went with Avalon instead (I have a batch 2 that's already paid for itself in BTC)

Yet again, the greedy persons view of the world.

Again, are you smoking crack?

Why would someone want to just give free money to BFL in exchange for nothing of value? If they want to give to charity there are lot of worthwhile options.

If you're not a little greedy, there's no reason to care about bitcoin at all.  There's no reason to care about money. If they weren't greedy they would never have bought ASICs in the first place. Why would they?

Quote
BFL is damned if they do and damned if they don't.

BFL is damned because their mistakes are in the past.  There is nothing they can do now to rectify the situation, that's what happens.  That's how time works. Mistakes can't always be undone, and the damned stay damned.

Quote
If you listen to the shills on the ASICMiner posts, RoI != profit.  RoI is simply Return ON investment.  EVERY MINER HAS AN ROI, some just have a HIGHER RoI than others.  Using your flawed BTC argument, you'll never attain MORE BTC than you spend unless the network has reached saturation, so you should never again buy another new product.

I just told you. My Batch2 Avolon has already paid for itself, in BTC. And it certainly is true that no one should buy a pre-order at this point in time. Anyway people use "ROI" around here to mean positive ROI. If you make less then you pay it's a negative ROI.

Quote
can't take any more ignorance.

Ignorance of what?

You're just spewing total nonsense.

You claim to be defending BFL, and yet you say they fucked their customers. You admit their customers will never ROI, and that BFL never intended for them too.  You say the customers should have figured it out, and then you say their customers are only complaining because they're "greedy".  Except if they weren't greedy they never would have bought an ASIC in the first place.

That's like saying you shouldn't complain about getting fucked because the only reason it hurt is because you're too uptight for the giant dick to fit comfortably in your asshole.

You're not defending BFL, certainly not in a way that would make sense to the people they fucked.  We seem to agree on the facts, it's just you don't think there's anything wrong with ripping people off if they're "greedy" and stupid.

It's totally bizarre.

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August 27, 2013, 09:09:26 PM

I wouldn't be suprised, if BFL used a 3D-model (for a whopping $59) like this one:

http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/nvidia-evga-gtx-570-3d-model/640684

and adjusted some details to create their Monarch-sketchup.

Note the same number of points at the center of the fan in this 3D model (4th pic in the link) and the BFL- Monarch sketchup.


my 0.02 btc

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August 27, 2013, 09:09:57 PM

Can't help but laugh at bfl still trying to put on a brave face. Really once you've used avalon I'm not really sure why anyone would bother with bfl. Whether they can be trusted to produce is not really a question of interest when they can't produce when they say they will. Until they have that trust they will always be in the shadows of avalon.

How are those batch #3 Avalons coming along?  Cheesy

Splendid thanks. They overclock like madmen...

I have results from 2 more batch3s, 2 batch2s, and 4 batch1s if you're interested.
I am interested? What is the thread link?

If you overclock a BFL unit "that much" you would probably burn a hole through the table, carpet and then the subfloor or basement foundation. Might even become a china syndrome. (Well if the chord lasts that long)

Sadly BFL stuff is not easily overclockable. I'm averaging about 715Gh/s from 1 minirig SC and 4 Singles(think 12 singles), but they're *HOT* and require 10x the attention the 9 Avalons do. I have two AC units cooling them(32k BTU) and they still overwhelm the ACs during the day.
How much power does it take to run the avalons when they are that overclocked?

I'm sure I will regret this, but I'm going to answer your question anyway.

927w with a platinum PSU. This is the one area in which BFL is clearly superior. With an identical PSU(Antec 1300w platinum) four BFL Single SCs draw just under 1100w and hash at around 375Gh/s(after mods to their crappy stock cooling). The minirig SC has twin EVGA classified 1500w PSUs and it draws almost exactly 2x this amount.

If you think this is a huge advantage for BFL gear however, then you'd be mistaken. Bitfury has claimed that the first of their finished products have shipped today and this will mark the end of BFL's superiority in the efficiency department, even while the vast majority of their customers victims still await the products they paid for months ago. Operating cost differences between these two products will end up being nearly meaningless IMO. This is why I've chosen to add more hashing power in the form of cheaper and more readily available secondary market Avalons.

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August 27, 2013, 09:16:20 PM

Sadly BFL stuff is not easily overclockable. I'm averaging about 715Gh/s from 1 minirig SC and 4 Singles(think 12 singles), but they're *HOT* and require 10x the attention the 9 Avalons do. I have two AC units cooling them(32k BTU) and they still overwhelm the ACs during the day.


How did you overclock your singles to 89GH/s per board?  EDIT: divide by 12 not 8 dummy! Embarrassed

Tired of substandard power distribution in your ASIC setup???   Chris' Custom Cablez will get you sorted out right!  No job too hard so PM me for a quote
Check my products or ask a question here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=74397.0
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August 27, 2013, 09:17:07 PM

I wouldn't be suprised, if BFL used a 3D-model (for a whopping $59) like this one:

http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/nvidia-evga-gtx-570-3d-model/640684

and adjusted some details to create their Monarch-sketchup.

Note the same number of points at the center of the fan in this 3D model (4th pic in the link) and the BFL- Monarch sketchup.


my 0.02 btc

Lol, and that proves what?  They aren't claiming to have a functioning prototype at this very moment.
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August 27, 2013, 09:19:07 PM

Sadly BFL stuff is not easily overclockable. I'm averaging about 715Gh/s from 1 minirig SC and 4 Singles(think 12 singles), but they're *HOT* and require 10x the attention the 9 Avalons do. I have two AC units cooling them(32k BTU) and they still overwhelm the ACs during the day.


How did you overclock your singles to 89GH/s per board?
He didn't, your math is wrong that's all. Minirig 480GH/s, that means 235GH/s from the 4 Singles.
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August 27, 2013, 09:22:22 PM

Sadly BFL stuff is not easily overclockable. I'm averaging about 715Gh/s from 1 minirig SC and 4 Singles(think 12 singles), but they're *HOT* and require 10x the attention the 9 Avalons do. I have two AC units cooling them(32k BTU) and they still overwhelm the ACs during the day.

How did you overclock your singles to 89GH/s per board?

Hi Cablez. If I figure that one out, I'll let you know. Grin 715/12 = 59.58333. They're not only not overclocked they're often slightly below spec, though they seem to love cold and I AM a lifelong Michigander after all. Looking forward to throwing some frosty Michigan winter air at them.

Edit: erk = too fast.

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August 27, 2013, 09:23:19 PM

Yeah I edited above. I need to leave work now I am fried. Cheesy

Tired of substandard power distribution in your ASIC setup???   Chris' Custom Cablez will get you sorted out right!  No job too hard so PM me for a quote
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