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 Author Topic: [TEK] TEKcoin Hi-PoS hybrid pos/pow no premine/ipo/ico  (Read 429658 times) This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic.
bee7
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 October 01, 2014, 06:46:54 PM

Do you get a higher % stake with bigger blocks?  Like I said; I only got 26.5% with a difficulty of 0.000084.  Block was about 228 TEK.

No, the % rate is the same for diff block sizes.

If rate is same , why he got less with lower diff?

Just by the TEK specs, although it is not mentioned in the OP, from the source code we could see:
https://github.com/maxxine/TEK/blob/master/src/main.cpp#L984
Quote
// tekcoin: reward for coin-year is cut in half every 64x multiply of PoS difficulty
// A reasonably continuous curve is used to avoid shock to market
// (nRewardCoinYearLimit / nRewardCoinYear) ** 4 == bnProofOfStakeLimit / bnTarget
//
//
// nRewardCoinYear = 1 / (posdiff ^ 1/4)

So, the biggest reward you get when difficulty is between 2^-16 (two in power of minus sixteen) and 2^-10, the next grade is when difficulty between 2^-10 and 2^-4, then the next is between 2^-4 and 2^2, e.t.c
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m33
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Never invest with borrowed coins

 October 02, 2014, 01:03:09 AM

Do you get a higher % stake with bigger blocks?  Like I said; I only got 26.5% with a difficulty of 0.000084.  Block was about 228 TEK.

No, the % rate is the same for diff block sizes.

If rate is same , why he got less with lower diff?

Just by the TEK specs, although it is not mentioned in the OP, from the source code we could see:
https://github.com/maxxine/TEK/blob/master/src/main.cpp#L984
Quote
// tekcoin: reward for coin-year is cut in half every 64x multiply of PoS difficulty
// A reasonably continuous curve is used to avoid shock to market
// (nRewardCoinYearLimit / nRewardCoinYear) ** 4 == bnProofOfStakeLimit / bnTarget
//
//
// nRewardCoinYear = 1 / (posdiff ^ 1/4)

So, the biggest reward you get when difficulty is between 2^-16 (two in power of minus sixteen) and 2^-10, the next grade is when difficulty between 2^-10 and 2^-4, then the next is between 2^-4 and 2^2, e.t.c

Sorry could you please explain in plain English . I for one am not a programer or coder . And my maths is supper bad . I'm sure many would like it , I thank you for you time to explaine ,what's happening here

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bee7
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 October 02, 2014, 03:57:05 AM

Do you get a higher % stake with bigger blocks?  Like I said; I only got 26.5% with a difficulty of 0.000084.  Block was about 228 TEK.

No, the % rate is the same for diff block sizes.

If rate is same , why he got less with lower diff?

Just by the TEK specs, although it is not mentioned in the OP, from the source code we could see:
https://github.com/maxxine/TEK/blob/master/src/main.cpp#L984
Quote
// tekcoin: reward for coin-year is cut in half every 64x multiply of PoS difficulty
// A reasonably continuous curve is used to avoid shock to market
// (nRewardCoinYearLimit / nRewardCoinYear) ** 4 == bnProofOfStakeLimit / bnTarget
//
//
// nRewardCoinYear = 1 / (posdiff ^ 1/4)

So, the biggest reward you get when difficulty is between 2^-16 (two in power of minus sixteen) and 2^-10, the next grade is when difficulty between 2^-10 and 2^-4, then the next is between 2^-4 and 2^2, e.t.c

Sorry could you please explain in plain English . I for one am not a programer or coder . And my maths is supper bad . I'm sure many would like it , I thank you for you time to explaine ,what's happening here

When PoS difficulty is between 0.000244141 (the base difficulty) and 0.015625024 you have a maximum (base) reward rate of 100% yearly or 0.273972603% per day. When PoS difficulty is between 0.015625024 and 1.000001536 the reward is halved and you get 50% yearly or 0.136986301% per day, when PoS difficulty is between 1.000001536 and 64.000098304 you get 25% yearly or 0.068493151% per day, and so on.

Edit: fixed the figures: it seems I was sleepy at the time of posting
Elite2TheMax
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 October 02, 2014, 07:56:15 AM

Got my first stacking of Tek! Feels good. Was quite high in staking percentage, but some got orphaned, so leaving the wallet open to fix that and get the pos mined block.

Want to bring something new up. I know it is off topic, but I need to bring this up. As we know Tek is probably the best coin there is, price spikes we have witness (100K satoshi), and the interest that is obtained every 30 days or so. The tek diff is quite high, and I stopped mining tek a while ago due to the diff.

Now after the new wallet comes out whenever that will be, and everything returns to normal like the 40% pos staking every 30 days, and also someone brought it up to implement a reminding system in the new wallet so we know when to leave the wallet open, it is a good idea and would be useful. Anyway you get the point by now.

I was thinking, now I do not know how the devs feel about it, but I was thinking due to the high diff in tek to mine and the concept is great, why not look at making another SHA256 coin? I mean POS is the present and the future, BTC diff will keep rising every few weeks and its gotten to the point of retarded already and will continue up until next year.

Why not make another crypto, not the same as tek but different, still get pos interest and all that. Small block reward and fast block times, but maybe will a super block reward every x blocks.

I think you get the picture here as to what I am pointing out. I am a serious miner with serious hardware and take it as seriously as it comes. So just thinking, for those that would be keen to see another successful implementation of a coin such as tek, we could move forward over the next few months to something even greater. Pos coins are very rare for SHA and pos already is so important due to costs for people etc...

Tell me what you think.
skunk
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 October 02, 2014, 09:22:51 AM

this is the pos difficulty since block 300000...
as we can see variance was low before the fork (before the hole) except for the spike short before block 400000.

after the fork difficulty variance is significantly higher with a lot of very high spikes thus a holder should think twice before letting the wallet stake.
adding a customizable maximum difficulty limit to the wallet would definitely help to better distribute the difficulty over time.
i'm sure a holder would prefer waiting some days and get an interest as close as possible to the promised 40% rather than staking exactly on the 30th day risking a much lower interest rate...

bee7
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 October 02, 2014, 11:26:08 AM

I don't know about everyone else, but I just leave my wallet on and let it ride 24/7. I prefer to feel that, in the long run, the rate is optimized and I'm not losing out on too much return for doing this, since it is really protecting the network moreso than just opening the wallet once or twice a month.

This is indeed the correct attitude!
skunk
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 October 02, 2014, 01:14:53 PM

I don't know about everyone else, but I just leave my wallet on and let it ride 24/7. I prefer to feel that, in the long run, the rate is optimized and I'm not losing out on too much return for doing this, since it is really protecting the network moreso than just opening the wallet once or twice a month.

This is indeed the correct attitude!
i agree but wouldn't be more fair if everybody would get the same interest? if some developer (i'm not a coder) could implement what i've proposed in my previous posts nobody would need to bother about pos difficulty anymore and leave the miner running unlocked...

bee7
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 October 02, 2014, 01:19:33 PM

I don't know about everyone else, but I just leave my wallet on and let it ride 24/7. I prefer to feel that, in the long run, the rate is optimized and I'm not losing out on too much return for doing this, since it is really protecting the network moreso than just opening the wallet once or twice a month.

This is indeed the correct attitude!
i agree but wouldn't be more fair if everybody would get the same interest? if some developer (i'm not a coder) could implement what i've proposed in my previous posts nobody would need to bother about pos difficulty anymore and leave the miner running unlocked...

The TEK is not only PoS coin in the market. If you don't like conditions then pick another one, or create your own.
skunk
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 October 02, 2014, 02:07:57 PM

I don't know about everyone else, but I just leave my wallet on and let it ride 24/7. I prefer to feel that, in the long run, the rate is optimized and I'm not losing out on too much return for doing this, since it is really protecting the network moreso than just opening the wallet once or twice a month.

This is indeed the correct attitude!
i agree but wouldn't be more fair if everybody would get the same interest? if some developer (i'm not a coder) could implement what i've proposed in my previous posts nobody would need to bother about pos difficulty anymore and leave the miner running unlocked...

The TEK is not only PoS coin in the market. If you don't like conditions then pick another one, or create your own.
what a harsh and unconstructive anwer...

gribgo
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 October 02, 2014, 03:16:48 PM

I don't know about everyone else, but I just leave my wallet on and let it ride 24/7. I prefer to feel that, in the long run, the rate is optimized and I'm not losing out on too much return for doing this, since it is really protecting the network moreso than just opening the wallet once or twice a month.

This is indeed the correct attitude!
i agree but wouldn't be more fair if everybody would get the same interest? if some developer (i'm not a coder) could implement what i've proposed in my previous posts nobody would need to bother about pos difficulty anymore and leave the miner running unlocked...

This is great idea! Its an improvment for all
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 October 02, 2014, 04:04:11 PM

If there is no mechanism to encourage spreading out of the blocks, then a user can put 100% of his Tek into one block, stake and turn off. That is not great for the network, as we want a steady 24/7 supply of blocks. Putting a max block size in a coin that has a mintage  that grows a large amount can be problematic, where do you put the level, and eventually it must change as it continuously becomes a smaller and smaller % of total minted.

At this time the best strategy i have for staking at a high rate, is break up my total tek as much as i can so i stake once per day. One stake per day is manageable for me i can check pos and see if its too high and wait. These spikes of diff come down really fast so at worst i wait one day or two and then stake 2-3 blocks. The next month if the other staker didn't move, i wont have to wait to stake at high pos day again, they are already in spot from last month. Tek has "paid" me extra for my work to take action move my blocks and strengthen the chain.
bee7
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 October 02, 2014, 04:25:36 PM

I don't know about everyone else, but I just leave my wallet on and let it ride 24/7. I prefer to feel that, in the long run, the rate is optimized and I'm not losing out on too much return for doing this, since it is really protecting the network moreso than just opening the wallet once or twice a month.

This is indeed the correct attitude!
i agree but wouldn't be more fair if everybody would get the same interest? if some developer (i'm not a coder) could implement what i've proposed in my previous posts nobody would need to bother about pos difficulty anymore and leave the miner running unlocked...

The TEK is not only PoS coin in the market. If you don't like conditions then pick another one, or create your own.
what a harsh and unconstructive anwer...

You have another option: convince the community of some coin, say TEK, and its developer to make the changes to the protocol. The same scheme of adjusting reward (not only PoS, but PoW as well) used by a number of another coins. The inventor of it had some reasoning behind. TBH, I did not think a lot about this scheme, so I can't say is it bad or good for the sake of the network security taking to account all possible factors. At least I see that people in this thread (and some other threads) are hunting for the low PoS diff and thus keeping their wallets off. This is not good at all for the coin.
thundertoe
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 October 02, 2014, 06:27:22 PM

I don't know about everyone else, but I just leave my wallet on and let it ride 24/7. I prefer to feel that, in the long run, the rate is optimized and I'm not losing out on too much return for doing this, since it is really protecting the network moreso than just opening the wallet once or twice a month.

This is indeed the correct attitude!
i agree but wouldn't be more fair if everybody would get the same interest? if some developer (i'm not a coder) could implement what i've proposed in my previous posts nobody would need to bother about pos difficulty anymore and leave the miner running unlocked...

The TEK is not only PoS coin in the market. If you don't like conditions then pick another one, or create your own.
what a harsh and unconstructive anwer...

You have another option: convince the community of some coin, say TEK, and its developer to make the changes to the protocol. The same scheme of adjusting reward (not only PoS, but PoW as well) used by a number of another coins. The inventor of it had some reasoning behind. TBH, I did not think a lot about this scheme, so I can't say is it bad or good for the sake of the network security taking to account all possible factors. At least I see that people in this thread (and some other threads) are hunting for the low PoS diff and thus keeping their wallets off. This is not good at all for the coin.

I really like the idea of adding a do not mint if pos diff >  button idea, could keep wallets online that is good for the coin.
vancefox
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 October 02, 2014, 06:34:24 PM

I'm steady staking around 20-34%... I have a block maturing almost every day so that helps I guess... I'm figuring TEK is a 25%/30 days average stake coin now without further meddling.

This space not for rent...
bee7
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 October 02, 2014, 06:57:23 PM

I don't know about everyone else, but I just leave my wallet on and let it ride 24/7. I prefer to feel that, in the long run, the rate is optimized and I'm not losing out on too much return for doing this, since it is really protecting the network moreso than just opening the wallet once or twice a month.

This is indeed the correct attitude!
i agree but wouldn't be more fair if everybody would get the same interest? if some developer (i'm not a coder) could implement what i've proposed in my previous posts nobody would need to bother about pos difficulty anymore and leave the miner running unlocked...

The TEK is not only PoS coin in the market. If you don't like conditions then pick another one, or create your own.
what a harsh and unconstructive anwer...

You have another option: convince the community of some coin, say TEK, and its developer to make the changes to the protocol. The same scheme of adjusting reward (not only PoS, but PoW as well) used by a number of another coins. The inventor of it had some reasoning behind. TBH, I did not think a lot about this scheme, so I can't say is it bad or good for the sake of the network security taking to account all possible factors. At least I see that people in this thread (and some other threads) are hunting for the low PoS diff and thus keeping their wallets off. This is not good at all for the coin.

I really like the idea of adding a do not mint if pos diff >  button idea, could keep wallets online that is good for the coin.

Keeping a wallet online which does not perform staking is useless at least and detriment at most as that wallet does nothing but consumes the others network resources for nothing.
thundertoe
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 October 02, 2014, 07:24:01 PM

I don't know about everyone else, but I just leave my wallet on and let it ride 24/7. I prefer to feel that, in the long run, the rate is optimized and I'm not losing out on too much return for doing this, since it is really protecting the network moreso than just opening the wallet once or twice a month.

This is indeed the correct attitude!
i agree but wouldn't be more fair if everybody would get the same interest? if some developer (i'm not a coder) could implement what i've proposed in my previous posts nobody would need to bother about pos difficulty anymore and leave the miner running unlocked...

The TEK is not only PoS coin in the market. If you don't like conditions then pick another one, or create your own.
what a harsh and unconstructive anwer...

You have another option: convince the community of some coin, say TEK, and its developer to make the changes to the protocol. The same scheme of adjusting reward (not only PoS, but PoW as well) used by a number of another coins. The inventor of it had some reasoning behind. TBH, I did not think a lot about this scheme, so I can't say is it bad or good for the sake of the network security taking to account all possible factors. At least I see that people in this thread (and some other threads) are hunting for the low PoS diff and thus keeping their wallets off. This is not good at all for the coin.

I really like the idea of adding a do not mint if pos diff >  button idea, could keep wallets online that is good for the coin.

Keeping a wallet online which does not perform staking is useless at least and detriment at most as that wallet does nothing but consumes the others network resources for nothing.

I like to push a theory to extremes to test its logic and by your statement, less online wallets is ok for the whole network, hmm so less and less.. now we have pushed to extreme and where did the network go?

To build a stable robust network you need as many nodes up and running 24/7 as you can get, PoS provides incentive to do this in the form of paying interest.
bee7
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 October 02, 2014, 07:36:01 PM

Keeping a wallet online which does not perform staking is useless at least and detriment at most as that wallet does nothing but consumes the others network resources for nothing.

I like to push a theory to extremes to test its logic and by your statement, less online wallets is ok for the whole network, hmm so less and less.. now we have pushed to extreme and where did the network go?

To build a stable robust network you need as many nodes up and running 24/7 as you can get, PoS provides incentive to do this in the form of paying interest.

Yes and no. The network would be completely fine with just a single node online if it is reachable from everywhere. Yes, the bigger number of nodes helps to resist the DoS attack, but not staking nodes does nothing to secure the network from 51% attack.
There is 2462347.594957 TEK supply. How much of that is really protecting network? Ok, let's not be extreme. Say, that coin is distributed evenly and everyone is running the wallet 8 hours a day. Then it is 1/3 of all coins is protecting the network at time. But taking to account the will of many posters in this thread to get bigger reward by waiting for suitable difficulty I doubt that it exceeds 1/6 of all TEK in existence. Is this fair? Is this good for the coin?
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Monero Core Team

 October 02, 2014, 08:03:02 PM

thank you thundertoe, i'll make some pos difficulty graphs if i can figure out how to use altexplorer.info's api...
I'd love to see this. With recipe to do the same for other coins.

 Monero: the first crytocurrency to bring bank secrecy and net neutrality to the blockchain. HyperStake: pushing the limits of staking. Reputation thread Free bitcoins: reviews, hints…: freebitco.in, freedoge.co.in, qoinpro
aigeezer
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Cryptanalyst castrated by his government, 1952

 October 02, 2014, 08:05:30 PM

Thundertoe has a hard time getting people to compile the windows wallets, and both of the current ones were compiled by volunteers. Again, both known to me. Presstab, while an excitable guy, is beyond reproach. Argakiig is also a good guy. I'm as certain as I can be that they would not put anything deliberately malicious in the code. But as you noted, you don't personally know me, and that's simply not good enough. Which is why I want to learn how to compile windows wallets and post up a guide for it. If you compile it yourself, you KNOW what's in it. It's not as convenient, but it's safer. And I'm starting to ramble, so I'll hang it up here.

Biomech, your posts are always an inspiration. In fact, your posts are what drew me to TEK in the first place. In that vein - would you consider posting a BTC addy that people can donate to if they want, for the purpose of funding compiles (and perhaps related Dev work). A TEK addy would not work under the present circumstances because some of us cannot use our TEK wallets. I will be glad to donate something if it would help break the present stalemate. I hope that you might either act to hold funds in escrow and farm out the tasks or do them yourself if the compensation donations make it viable - earn while you learn.

I can't give you a solid answer right now, due to other obligations. But I will strongly consider this, and talk it over with you and other community members sometime early next week. Right now I'm against a deadline in my job, and simply don't have time. But that's short term, and I've been a TEK head almost since it began, though I made a lot of mistakes early on

If I do it, it will be a completely separate wallet, with a pretty serious plan behind it. I don't want to start something I can't finish and leave myself and looking foolish and cost money for others.

Thanks for the kind words. You're a pretty harsh critic, so that means a lot to me.

Bump - I mean gentle reminder. - I mean where shall I send a bit of BTC? - I mean how's it goin', dude? - I mean I guess you are very busy. - I mean I miss running my TEK wallet - I mean "whimper".

Edit: I am so overwrought I even said LTC wallet for a moment. Fixed now.
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Monero Core Team

 October 02, 2014, 08:15:28 PM

Tekcoin irc channel is open,

not much going on atm though maybe we should start to use that resource more. I have been dropping in last few days maybe i will start camping out more often for those who don't like to use the bct route or skype etc.
I created ##tekcoin just now. Two reasons:
1. single-sharp is only for reputed chans (freenode's policy). TEK is not
2. #tekcoin is unmanaged, which means everyone would have to leave for the chan to be manageable again. ##tekcoin is managed (by me and I will add Thundertoe once he will join.

+1

Maybe good to go for a limited release to experienced users only, or to TEK team members ?

Would help to have a set of beta testers and/or a "TEK board" of people who have skin in the game...

I'm up for T.E.K. (TekCoin Economics Kommittee)
Reminds me of the Monero Economy Workgroup

I really like the idea of adding a do not mint if pos diff >  button idea, could keep wallets online that is good for the coin.
Also known as "do not protect the network if I am not paid enough".

You sure you want that?

 Monero: the first crytocurrency to bring bank secrecy and net neutrality to the blockchain. HyperStake: pushing the limits of staking. Reputation thread Free bitcoins: reviews, hints…: freebitco.in, freedoge.co.in, qoinpro
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