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Author Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information  (Read 2756221 times)
JKBtCn
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February 18, 2014, 10:52:35 AM
 #35041

Hey guys, how much NXT do I actually need to forge some blocks?

I currently have 10, yes ten, no not 10K, and it says that I can generate a block in 22429 days... Is this for real?  Huh

Thanks!

Even with 100k nxt you will not make any money forging so get that mentality out of your head from the start and welcome to the beginning of the rest of your life.

I've been trying to learn more about forging (transparent forging) and you raise the exact issue I am looking to resolve as a recent investor. You make it sound like 100,000 NXT is not enough to forge.

I am a miner at heart and like the idea of forging but the more I read about NXT, it seems that only the original stakeholders (or those with a huge number of NXT) are the ones who can successfully forge (gain/accumulate NXT)? How many NXT are needed to forge and what returns could one expect from say 500,000 NXT? Does the chance to forge change over time, i.e. what variables other than my account holdings and online status as a node affect forging success?

This issue has been difficult to get my head around as a recent adopter. I have not forged any NXT since opening my account (20,000 NXT) a few weeks ago and it sounds like from your response that this number is a laughing matter...I will never forge with that amount. Could some one provide some insight or a link to where forging and returns are discussed?



http://wiki.nxtcrypto.org/wiki/FAQ#Forging

with 100k you'll forge a block every couple of days - but NXT is not about forging


Thanks. I read the link and wonder if you could elaborate on your point that NXT is not about forging?

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NHZ: 8709719431783299770                 QORA | 2ND GEN | NEW SOURCE CODE | Qi24ssRqmEo3Wepv9pgdmqNuTDKQByiEfd
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February 18, 2014, 10:58:25 AM
 #35042

1. community raises NXT for charity
2. charity gets NXT
3. What happens now? Do they hold or sell it?

I think the third point is important. We believe that the price will rise in the future, so it would be wise for them to hold. That would mean also that they don't need a huge pile of NXT. But who are we to tell them "just hold it, this will (probably) help you enormously in the future". How did the BTC community 'handled' it?

Many little projects with a goal of maybe 20,000 NXT or two or three big projects and a huge load of NXT from the community.

What are the consequences for marketing?

When the Nxt are theirs, they're theirs. It's up to them to decide.
We can advise, but that advice will always be biased.

It must be clear THEY decide, as it's their money.

This will also mean they will actually have to research Nxt to make a decision Smiley

Edit: this is also a reason Songs of love was chosen, as they don't want it converted to USD, but actually want the cryptos.


HI everyone and thx to be one beautifull part of the Nxt community.
I've already gave some funds to Songs of Love, but i dont really love we're doing that only for marketing, because its a little bit passive and we must be more active to build a real movement.
It permit us to have more visibility but that's not helping us to build one strong community.

There are many other productive project, and these project can help us to build a huge community for real.
My project is a green one, we want to build some decentralized community of people and farm without any capitalistic problem.
We can build one system where its not difficult to stay in NXT currency.


We want to use NXT like the first modele of a decentralized world with a decentralized politic and a lot of free thing.
We will be able to create the first main NXT festival for common people.
The potential is huge.

I need some guy who can traduce these project in multilangage.
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February 18, 2014, 10:59:54 AM
 #35043

What is the format for account id's in aliases again?

Is it

acc:23232323 ?
xcn
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February 18, 2014, 11:01:31 AM
 #35044

What is the format for account id's in aliases again?

Is it

acc:23232323 ?

It should be cleared in NXT wiki, i think.
mikesbmw
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February 18, 2014, 11:04:12 AM
 #35045


[2014-02-17 21:22:23.586] DEBUG: Failed to accept block 13734259069497850723 at
height 68803 received from node55.nxtbase.com, blacklisting
[2014-02-17 21:22:26.391] DEBUG: Failed to accept block 13734259069497850723 at
height 68803 received from miasik.no-ip.org, blacklisting
[2014-02-17 21:22:50.345] DEBUG: Failed to accept block 209947979157787352 at he
ight 68804 received from nxt.homer.ru, blacklisting
[2014-02-17 21:23:02.295] DEBUG: Failed to accept block 209947979157787352 at he
ight 68804 received from node10.nxtbase.com, blacklisting

a
I don't understand why it keeps happening to your node, but again those two block ids are from the correct blockchain - at least on the nodes I run.


I am still not sure, who determines what is the correct chain?

i did a video interview with tai zen about how the network discovers the right chain. i cant make any promises but it may be helpful. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzKyXzZJJA8

Okay, let me ask you some questions. I put these ones on the table some time ago in my analysis of 'Transparent Forging' and CfB haven't answered it, yet. So, maybe you can.

You said: "The higher the stake involved in forging a block the 'better' the block."

So, how should a node (not the network as every node decides on their own) decide when two blocks are forged: one from account A and one from account B.

Now, there are several cases:
1) A comes first, TF says A is before B => A is on top of chain, B gets rejected when arriving (and vice versa)
2) B comes first, TF says A is before B => A didn't forge => B is on top of chain (and vice versa)

3) 2) happend; A arrived late; what happens? Will B get popped off?

3) ok so im not sure specifically how the client handles this situation. you could in theory have all of the nodes reject a as punishment for being late. there would be some advantages to this. personally though i think what you described in 3) would be wiser. ask a dev for specifics. 

IIRC, TF includes something like a penalty to accounts that were too late forging. From the perspective of a node, not forging and the forged block arrived too late are indistinguishable.
That penalty is supposed to prevent selfish mining.

Okay, let's go deeper:

Let's assume, one part of the network underwent 1) and the other part underwent 2) (because of network latency). We now have a partition of the network in nodes (say N1) having A on top and in nodes (say N2) having B on top.

How do we solve that?

Subtract all of the targets on chain a, subtract all of the targets on chain b, see which number is larger.

Sorry to ask again...

Two simple questions: can this be safely disregarded? All is well? (the non-technical answer please  Wink )

NXT: Next Generation of Cryptocurrency http://nxtcrypto.org
NEM:New Economy Movement http://www.ournem.com/
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February 18, 2014, 11:10:59 AM
 #35046

Subtract all of the targets on chain a, subtract all of the targets on chain b, see which number is larger.
Subtract from what?

technically it doesn't matter but probably zero would be the most strait forward.

Err, so what about summing them up and see what number is smaller? Sounds easier to explain to most people.

CfB said the next block will decide; still waiting for the how.

According to Wiki TF decides the next forger dependent on the previous block. So, if there is a partition of the network N1 and N2, then the nodes in these two different partitions have different TF outputs.

So, there are two cases: (next blocks/accounts are C, C' (part of N1) and D (part of N2); TF1 and TF2 are the output of TF of N1 and N2 respectively)
1) TF1 says C; TF2 says D => branches will get longer as foreign blocks get rejected
2) TF1 says C; TF2 says C' => C will get accepted; C' will get rejected as N1 expects C => What does N2? I would say: penalize C', ignore C and move on on its branch.

Still don't see how this conflict can be resolved. I need some idea for that.

bump
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February 18, 2014, 11:18:07 AM
 #35047

- so, it is definitely something wrong with the consensus mechanism now ...  because you need to manually recover your nodes from the fork.
I agree.
AFAIK, it was always this way.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303898.msg3375569#msg3375569
- there is no reference to "consensus" on this link.

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, the Next platform.  Magis quam Moneta (More than a Coin)
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February 18, 2014, 11:22:10 AM
 #35048

Nxt on bitcoinwisdom NOW !

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February 18, 2014, 11:22:45 AM
 #35049


Great news!
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February 18, 2014, 11:22:59 AM
 #35050

What is the format for account id's in aliases again?

Is it

acc:23232323 ?

There doesn't seem to be a standard yet.

I'm in favor of the "acct" scheme as defined in this IETF standards draft: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-appsawg-acct-uri-07

Using this proposed standard, a Nxt account would be specified by acct:1234567890@nxt

The Android app by yueye000 uses a custom scheme of "nact". 

Using this custom scheme, a Nxt account would be specified by nact:1234567890

There's another custom scheme I've seen, but I forget what exactly it is and which client uses it.

"An awful lot of code is being written ... in languages that aren't very good by people who don't know what they're doing." -- Barbara Liskov
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February 18, 2014, 11:27:46 AM
 #35051



I've asked to add NXT in their thread like 4 or 5 weeks ago and I think others, too. Very cool to now see it added!
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February 18, 2014, 11:38:49 AM
 #35052

http://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/bter/nxtbtc
good
mikesbmw
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February 18, 2014, 11:39:21 AM
 #35053

Wow! Very cool!

NXT: Next Generation of Cryptocurrency http://nxtcrypto.org
NEM:New Economy Movement http://www.ournem.com/
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February 18, 2014, 11:43:08 AM
 #35054


OMG Finally!

You can't select it under "Markets" yet though.
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February 18, 2014, 11:47:52 AM
 #35055


do you think it will be long before you can?
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February 18, 2014, 11:52:51 AM
 #35056


Very nice! Finally a real-time graph I can watch!

NXT: 13095091276527367030
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February 18, 2014, 11:56:24 AM
 #35057

do you think it will be long before you can?

i think they will show it in the main menu when there is more data to show. maybe in some days. otherwise the 1d time period is looking bad. Smiley very good news for NXT. but i dont think its realtime because bter isnt providing an API for this. maybe data every 30 seconds?
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February 18, 2014, 11:58:04 AM
 #35058


OMG... finally!

Btc : 12LMdyWoyjJ1BZxfWmaZMWjTXn7S9y5EdK
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February 18, 2014, 12:12:34 PM
 #35059

do you think it will be long before you can?

i think they will show it in the main menu when there is more data to show. maybe in some days. otherwise the 1d time period is looking bad. Smiley very good news for NXT. but i dont think its realtime because bter isnt providing an API for this. maybe data every 30 seconds?

Wisdom updates within a second or two of Bter.

Well done to those who badgered Wisdom.  Smiley
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February 18, 2014, 12:13:30 PM
 #35060


only 3 votes to eat PKR :

https://www.mintpal.com/voting

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