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Author Topic: Economic Devastation  (Read 504742 times)
CoinCube (OP)
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January 24, 2017, 07:36:47 PM
 #2861

The "father of open source" writes about CoinCube's Contentionism:

http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=7303

Agreed.

I don't think "Contentionism" is necessarily a new insight though perhaps it is a more formal way of talking about an old and ongoing reality.

One of the books that is near the top of list of books I plan to read is Victor Hugo 1862 classic Les Misérables. The musical was good but I suspect it is a pale shadow of the original. The story is one centered around the tyranny of the law the conditions that make such tyranny inevitable and ultimately the forces that allow for the law to be overthrown. An argument for Contentionism from 155 years ago.

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January 27, 2017, 04:12:26 AM
Last edit: January 27, 2017, 08:05:53 AM by CoinCube
 #2862

Minimizing defection actually limits cooperation and promotes top-down failure modes which are rigor mortis. Some coordination results from top-down control, but massive amounts of aliasing error (relative to fitness) also. Satoshi's PoW design suffers from this problem and my solution to fixing it is involved with increasing decentralization and removing that aliasing error.

Maximizing cooperation is a coordination problem. This has to do with Coasian costs. It is an economic and technology issue. For solutions, we need decentralized paradigms such as open source. Religion isn't objective open source. It is unfalsifiable, top-down control.

When you argue that defection limits cooperation you appear to be confusing two distinct entities. Defection and rebellion are not synonyms. Cooperation involves a mutually beneficial exchange that improves the well-being of both participants. Defection is an interaction that benefits one party at the expense of another. Defection always implies violence, the threat of violence, ignorance, or forced interaction.

Top-down control fulfills its mandate when it maximizes cooperation and minimizes defection. Top-down control also uses fear, violence, and forced interaction. Top-down control is thus only morally justified if the use of those things results in an overall increase in cooperation and a reduction in defection.

The amount of top-down control required to maximize cooperation is inversely proportional to knowledge. As knowledge advances the of top-down control needed to maximize cooperation shrinks. However, humans are morally flawed resulting in recurrent excessive concentrations of power and a general refusal to cede power. The human condition is thus marked the gradual progression of technological and moral progress with either no accompanying change in top-down control or a counterintuitive increase in top-down control. When this happens the top-down control itself limits cooperation and becomes a form of defection. The situation is like a pressure cooker that eventually explodes in a rebellion resetting the top-down control to a more appropriate level.  

Defection and rebellion are thus entirely separate phenomenon. The first is evil and always morally unjustifiable. The second is not only just but a moral obligation once a superior solution to top-down failure becomes available.

A visual example may help:
This is rebellion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6ldlEbbphs
This is defection: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7t7gG3XVqW0

You often repeat the "we just need decentralization paradigms" argument. That is only half true. Yes we need decentralization paradigms. This is the growth of knowledge above. However, decentralization paradigms are only half of what we need. The other half of what we need is a top-down control that maximizes cooperation alongside new decentralization paradigms. Your anarchist tendencies recurrently lead to you gloss over this second part. You acknowledge that top-down control cannot be avoided then seem to stop thinking about it.

The reality is we need top-down control just as much as we need decentralization paradigms. That may be a bitter pill to swallow for an anarchist. The need for top-down control does not go away just because we don't like it or don't want to think about it.

I notice you tend to brush off this issue with comments such as "I don't want to fix the world" and "Trying to fix society is evil." these come across as avoidance. Adopting a lets just do decentralized anarchy and let the cards fall where they may approach is not a rational position.

Religion indeed is top-down control, but that statement is meaningless without context. We both need top-down control and will always need top-down control. Thus ultimately the relevant question is what kind of top-down control is religion.

That answer of course varies depending on what kind of religion we are talking about. The primitive idols worshiping pagans had horrific gods. These religions were tools of extreme top-down oppression and their extinction is welcome. See my post on Pagans and Human Sacrifice if you are interested in more on this.

However, belief in God especially individual belief in God coupled with a fear of God is something else entirely. A society where all individuals genuinely believed in and feared God would have very little defection. What defection did occur would be the result of ignorance not malice and even that would decline with time as knowledge progressed. An individual restrained only by a genuine belief and fear of God has complete operational autonomy he would willing choose only cooperation and never defection limited only by his knowledge of what actions constituted genuine cooperation.

Belief in God is top-down control. It is the purest manifestation of such control enabling a maximisation of freedom. Rejecting God leads ultimately to higher levels of defection and consequentially less freedom.

Proverbs 9:10
"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom"



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January 29, 2017, 06:14:29 PM
Last edit: January 29, 2017, 11:31:23 PM by CoinCube
 #2863

Cycles of Contention
Cycle #1  Cycle #2  Cycle #3  Cycle #4  Cycle #5  Cycle #6  
Mechanism of Control    Knowledge of Evil  Warlordism    Holy War  Usury  Universal Surveillance    Hedonism  
RulersThe Strong  Despots  God Kings/Monarchs    Capitalists    Oligarchs (NWO)  Decentralized Government    
Life of the Ruled"Nasty, Brutish, Short"    Slaves  Surfs  Debtors  Basic Income Recipients    Knowledge Workers  
Facilitated AdvanceKnowledge of Good    Commerce  Rule of Law  Growth  Transparency  Ascesis  


France is moving into cycle #5

France's Benoit Hamon rouses Socialists with basic income plan
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38723219
Quote
He's been called the "French Bernie Sanders". After his decisive win in the first round of France's Socialist party primary, left-wing rebel, Benoit Hamon is suddenly the centre of attention.

But what do his rapid rise and eye-catching policies say about the future of the French left?
With his designer stubble and cheeky grin, the 49-year-old Socialist party rebel has been grabbing more than his share of the limelight over the past few weeks.

The most left-leaning of the seven initial candidates in the Socialist race, his programme has been built around the radical proposal of a universal monthly payment for all French citizens, regardless of income. He also wants to legalise cannabis, to tax the wealth created by robots and to ditch the labour law passed last year that made it easier to hire and fire.

The income plan he has outlined would be put into effect in three stages.

  • First, the current minimum welfare payment for France's poorest would be increased by 10% to €600 (£515; $640) a month
  • The payments would then be extended to all those from 18-25 years old
  • Finally the programme would be rolled out to all French citizens sometime after 2022, with the monthly payment increased to €750 a month


Cash is Not King: France, Germany, Discuss Cash Limits
https://www.google.com/amp/s/sputniknews.com/amp/europe/201602101034515521-5000-euros-cash-ban-terrorism/
Quote
France and Germany want to impose a Europe-wide ban on cash transactions of more than €5,000 ($5,600).

"We are striving to put in place a uniform limit on cash transactions in Europe,"

Michel Sapin (the French finance minister) discussed the proposal with his German counterpart at their regular twice-yearly meeting between the finance ministers and central bankers of France and Germany.

France has a limit of €1,000 on cash transactions, which was lowered from €3,000 after the terrorist attacks on Charlie Hebdo
...
In March last year Sapin announced the cash cap and other measures including greater monitoring of cash payments, withdrawals and small bank accounts in order to "fight against the use of cash and anonymity in the French economy, which enables "terrorism that is low cost to carry out but has major impact."

France now has one of the strictest caps. In 2011 Italy banned cash payments over €1,000, and in 2012 Spain capped cash payments to €2,500 for residents
...
In addition to discussing the ban on cash, on Tuesday the two countries and their central bankers also discussed the latters' proposals for structural reform of the Eurozone, including the establishment of a European finance ministry.

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January 29, 2017, 08:59:59 PM
 #2864


Singapore's plea to its people: Won’t you please have more children?
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-Pacific/2017/0129/Singapore-s-plea-to-its-people-Won-t-you-please-have-more-children
Quote
As Singapore goes all out to reverse its ultralow fertility rate, many nations facing tough economic and social problems as the ranks of young people dwindle watch closely for lessons.

Singapore’s fertility rate is among the 10 lowest in the world. The average number of births per woman in 2015 was 1.24, according to government statistics. That’s well below the replacement rate of 2.1, the number of babies generally required to maintain a country’s current population level.
...
Singapore is an acute example of what has become a worldwide trend. Nearly half of all people now live in countries where women, on average, give birth to fewer than 2.1 babies. The Population Reference Bureau, a nonprofit research group in Washington, estimates the world population will reach 9.9 billion in 2050, up about 33 percent from an estimated 7.4 billion now. Yet the growth rate has steadily declined since its peak in the late 1960s.
...
Governments across the world, from Denmark to Japan, are struggling to come to terms with shrinking populations, and the implications for everything from supporting aging populations to growing the economy. But Singapore’s all-out approach stands out as one of the most ambitious.
...
Singapore has introduced a wide range of policies to help defray the costs of raising children in one of the world’s most expensive countries. Couples can get baby bonuses and housing priority, and men can take advantage of extended mandatory parental leaves – just like women. The government sponsors dating services to help with the first step: finding a partner.
...
The government’s aim is to help make parenthood as easy as possible. Aside from the housing initiative, it has also extended mandatory paid paternity leave from one to two weeks and even provides cash for babies. Families receive $14,000 (Singaporean; almost US$9,900) for their first child and are eligible for the same amount if they have a second; they receive S$20,000 for a third child, as well as for a fourth, and S$26,000 for each child beyond that.

The results have been mixed.
...
“I cannot solve the problem, and I have given up,” Lee (the country’s founding leader) wrote in his last book, published in 2013. “I have given the job to another generation of leaders. Hopefully, they or their successors will eventually find a way out.”
...
Josephine Teo (enior minister of state who oversees the National Population and Talent Division) often urges young people to look for love and settle down early, but even she has acknowledged a fine line between gentle persuasion and heavy-handed intrusiveness... "Millennial Singaporeans, who number nearly a million, are not about to start families because someone exhorts them to. If and when they decide to, it will likely be because they regard marriage and parenthood to be achievable, enjoyable, and celebrated.”

Versus

Israel has the highest birth rate in the developed world.
http://www.businessinsider.com/israel-has-the-highest-birth-rate-in-the-developed-world-and-thats-becoming-a-problem-2015-9
Quote
Although most people don’t realize it, Israel is the only Western country that has a positive birthrate

The average Israeli woman has three babies in her lifetime, nearly double the fertility rate for the rest of the industrialised countries in the OECD.

Today's population of 8.4 million is forecast to reach 15.6 million by 2059 and 20.6 million in a high case scenario.
...
there is no national discourse or recognition that a problem exists. On the contrary, government policies are geared to encouraging a high birth rate.

The reasons are various, from the biblical command "Be fruitful and multiply" to the death of six million Jews in the Holocaust, to fears of being outnumbered by Arabs.

Israeli government policy encourages population growth with benefits such as child allowances, free schooling from the age of three and funding for up to four in vitro fertility treatments a year.

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January 29, 2017, 10:28:47 PM
 #2865

Differences Between The Women's March And The March For Life
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-01-29/im-woman-who-went-womens-march-and-march-life-differences-were-stunning
Quote
A week after the Inauguration of Donald Trump, politically active women across America could choose to make themselves heard at two major rallies revolving around women's issues. They could attend a pro-choice, feminist march known as the Women's March or they could wait one week and attend the 44th annual pro-life, March for Life.

The marches had their similarities. Both marches were held in D.C. Both marches were heavily attended by women. And both marches attracted people from all over the country to participate. But each march was not made equal.

Being physically at the marches, it is easy to recognize differences between the two. In fact, some of the differences were downright stunning. Take a look for yourself, perhaps you will agree.

March for Life









The Women's March









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January 30, 2017, 03:28:16 AM
 #2866

...

I saw that article earlier, CC.  I am considering starting a series at Facebook of short links & pictures showing the CRAZIES who are suffering from "Trump Derangement Syndrome", pretty much the same as the earlier Bush version, but seems to be more extreme re Trump.

But all I would wind up doing is pissing-off my deluded relatives who are in the tank for The Left.
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February 01, 2017, 12:11:59 AM
Last edit: February 01, 2017, 12:55:18 AM by CoinCube
 #2867

Recently I have been thinking about the viability of gift economics. I am just starting to explore this issue and do not claim any deep knowledge on the topic. However, I have seen this concept in two different venues in just the last few weeks.

In "Sacred Economics" by Charles Eisenstein the author argues extensively for the viability of such an economics. I have just started to read the book. It is well written with an excellent critique of usury but I have not yet gotten to the heart of Mr. Eisenstein's argument.
http://sacred-economics.com/read-online/

Just today I found this attempt to codify gift economics into cryptocurrency. Vadim Frolov appears to be planning to roll this out in the form of an open sourced decentralized platform called thank-u
https://medium.com/@vadim.frolov/thank-u-value-and-money-redefined-on-blockchain-to-fix-ad-blocking-79de7a87231c#.yl9husm8r


This is a topic I will need to explore further. I plan to finish reading Mr. Eisenstein's book and follow the progress of this thank-u platform.

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February 03, 2017, 05:27:31 AM
 #2868

Interrupting the flow of the thread a little, but hae been reading up on China and the current geopolitic atmosphere today

The Trump admin is obviously pivoting towards Russia and away from China (which was Obama's play - appease China, freeze out Russia).

This puts enormous pressure on China, who no longer has the cheap wages or productivity room-to-grow that they have had for the last two decades.

Trump will antagonise over currency manipulation, tariffs, North Korea & Taiwan etc etc and the Chinese have few options.

 - can't just dump Treasuries (although they are now sellers) as it implodes their economy as well.

 - can't grow out of debt. They are already facing a massive debt bubble which is no doubt both worse than reported and larger than estimated due to the absence of including WMP's in the debt calculations. Growth is limp and the markets they export to like Europe are still flatlining.

  - they are trapped by the Impossible Trinity and will either impose stringent capital controls or do a shock devaluation of the Yuan to claw back a short term export advantage.

The Trump admin can squeeze China and the inclusions of known China agitators makes it more likely we will see a hot war over the South China Sea for its fishing and ship route importance.

On top of this, China is having an internal power struggle.

Relating this to Bitcoin, if things get desperate and capital controls get ramped up, the effect a PBoC 'ban' on the market will be brutal, at least short term. But, on the other hand, a sharp devaluation of the Yuan will put a rocket under bitcoin short term.

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February 13, 2017, 02:12:07 AM
Last edit: February 13, 2017, 03:22:14 AM by iamnotback
 #2869

I attempted to correct CoinCube's table. I disagree with his what I believe to be myopic God religion combined with closet utopian socialist ideologue perspective, especially on the future.

Slavery isn't ever going away. It is a feature of nature.

Cycles of Contention
Cycle #1Cycle #2Cycle #3Cycle #4Cycle #5Cycle #6
Mechanism of ControlKnowledge of Evil
Survivalism
Warlordism/FeudalismHoly WarUsuryUniversal SurveillanceHedonism
RulersThe StrongDespotsGod Kings/MonarchsCapitalistsOligarchs (NWO)Decentralized Government
Life of the Ruled"Nasty, Brutish, Short"
Slaves to Raw Nature
Slaves
Serfs or Indentured Laborers
SurfsSlaves and Subjects
Enslaved to Deity
Debtors + Marxist Indoctrination Ideologue SlavesBasic Income Recipients
Rationing + Eugenics Slaves
Knowledge Workers
Cult enslavement
Facilitated AdvanceKnowledge of Good
Reproduction
CommerceRule of LawGrowthTransparency
Culling of low entropy dead-weight
leftover from excess growth
Ascesis
Decentralized culture in the knowledge age context
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February 14, 2017, 11:54:27 PM
Last edit: February 15, 2017, 01:37:32 AM by iamnotback
 #2870

In one of my prior posts, the implication is that our children don't have freewill now. They are not in control of themselves. They are under mind and social coercion control of the mass media, SJWs-education, political correctness groupthink, and the natural devolution into a society-wide infanticide brothel.

Always the vast majority of the people are enslaved. That is why they are sheepeople.



A diversification of cults in Stage #6 will be the natural progression of increasing entropy of societal organization, while maintaining the need sheepeople have to be mind controlled.

Since @CoinCube continues to repost his incorrect table, I will continue to repost my proposed corrections:

Keeping with CoinCube's valid point of a continual march to higher entropy levels of social organization...

I attempted to correct CoinCube's table. I disagree with his what I believe to be myopic God religion combined with closet utopian socialist ideologue perspective, especially on the future.

Slavery isn't ever going away. It is a feature of nature.

Cycles of Contention
Cycle #1Cycle #2Cycle #3Cycle #4Cycle #5Cycle #6
Mechanism of ControlKnowledge of Evil
Survivalism
Warlordism/FeudalismHoly WarUsuryUniversal SurveillanceHedonism
RulersThe StrongDespotsGod Kings/MonarchsCapitalistsOligarchs (NWO)Decentralized Government
Life of the Ruled"Nasty, Brutish, Short"
Slaves to Raw Nature
Slaves
Serfs or Indentured Laborers
SurfsSlaves and Subjects
Enslaved to Deity
Debtors + Marxist Indoctrination Ideologue SlavesBasic Income Recipients
Rationing + Eugenics Slaves
Knowledge Workers
Cult enslavement
Facilitated AdvanceKnowledge of Good
Reproduction
CommerceRule of LawGrowthTransparency
Culling of low entropy dead-weight
leftover from excess growth
Ascesis
Decentralized culture in the knowledge age context
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February 16, 2017, 04:37:42 AM
 #2871

A thread of discussion which begins with the following quoted comment has piqued my interest (and you should click and read more of his thoughtful comments):

Clueless, when it comes to solving the prisoner’s dilemma, which is the point of religion. Your utopia will last about as long as any Sharia gang’s.

The point being that even a strong tribe would need cooperation with a wider-scale society in order to accomplish large-scale endeavors such as space travel, nuclear weapons, and attaining nation-state granularity sovereignty. And the point being that some common faith (and culture) is required that teaches men to subjugate their freewill seeking independence and tribal conquest (i.e. fragmentation of a wider-scale society) so as to cooperate for the collective success. That wider-scale cooperation can include enforcing restrictions on the mating strategies of men and women to promote stable families and procreation instead of devolution into a society-wide brothel defection.

My response is that open source is destroying the need for the nation-state. Open source is a paradigm shift which creates an Inverse Commons which does not suffer the Tragedy of the Commons prisoner's dilemma. Everyone can contribute and cooperate in the open, so there is no prison. And they don't have to agree with each other on concerns orthogonal to the specific open source project they are collaborating/contributing to.

So the God-delusion religion is also becoming antiquated. We no longer need it, as we also no longer need nation-states.

Around 10% of Amish leave their communities to explore the world at large, yet most return.

Note how the New Order Amish which adopted more open and less strict restrictions have a greater rebellion rate (where the youth don't return). This seems to confirm my stance that parents can indeed statistically control their kids' choices. And it also indicates that as we can cooperate (e.g. using open source for projects) orthogonal to other concerns, then we won't need to restrict knowledge creation in order to squelch tribal defection.

So into Stage #5 we go, and cull all this useless dead weight left over from the Industrial Age.

The nation-state was necessary for aggregating capital for the Industrial Age, but it has lost is reason to exist. And btw, this is why when Armstrong mentioned the USA would break up, it immediately seemed plausible to me.

My idea is the State exists to manage power structure between those who are not relatives and exceed our Dunbar limit. The State was necessary to optimize Stage #3 and #4, but now heading for Stage #6 it appears to be losing its raison d'être. Religion and local culture exist to organize the relatives and tribe that fit within the Dunbar limit. In short, top-down versus bottom-up organization.

Religion can thus spread like a virus P2P; whereas, a State spreads only by top-down conquest.

Religion goes far beyond relatives and Dunbar limits. It is the primary mechanism of bottom-up spontaneous accretive cooperation.

Religion derives its P2P spread and power of coercion due to the importance of our adaption to the Dunbar limit and the priorities we place on those relationships. That the religion virus spreads throughout the population is orthogonal to the mechanism by which religion is empowered.

If we want to destroy the importance of those relationships within our Dunbar limit, then we need to replace that structure of control with another power structure, else we will have a power vacuum as we do which is an infanticide, society-wide brothel that I assert will completely collapse in Stage #5 with the Millennials generation.

Because I have been explaining we are moving from the Industrial (fixed capital) Age to the Knowledge Age where individuals will own their productive capacity and can't be bought with financial capital.

Thus the nation-state concept has peaked. The globalists are consolidating power now to try to fend off the Knowledge Age, but they will fail (although they will succeed to enslave those who don't transition and remain dependent on the one world reserve currency and governments).

...

The individual is rising. Government is dying, and as it last hurrah it will descend into one world government which in fact already exists de facto as the DEEP STATE.

These comments make it painfully obvious that Armstrong does not
understand the global trend underway with the transition from the
Industrial (fixed capital) Age to individual ownership of one's productive
capital in the Knowledge Age. For details on that trend, refer to my prior
writings upthread. Specifically knowledge workers today can produce and
distribute their own work individually without relying on the Theory of
the Firm and finance. The 3D printer is yet another example of this trend
underway.

He is framing the issue with the wrong perspective, thus he entirely
misses the point and thus the correct conclusion.

Crypto-currency doesn't need the entire world's confidence and acceptance.
The sovereign Knowledge Age workers are adopting it...

The rest of humanity will descend into enslavement in a one world reserve
currency and a de facto DEEP STATE that runs the dying fixed capital age
and the concept of the nation-state which raison d'etre was the politics
of finance.

See the one world outcome is the death star of collectivism. Again I refer
him to my seminal article on the Rise of Knowledge:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=355212.0

Focus on the "Rise of Knowledge" essay and understand why savings must
decay otherwise knowledge doesn't advance.

I expounded on a later blog:

http://unheresy.com/Information%20Is%20Alive.html#Thought_Isn%27t_Fungible

...

Armstrong is stuck in an anarchic idea of government and finance. He is
blinded to the decentralized rise of the sovereign individual in the
Knowledge Age. Thus to his hammer everything looks like a nail. He can
only see everything in terms of government. He can't see the true
revolution going on which government can't do a damn thing to stop.

Let them try to turn off the electricity. Watch how fast the Knowledge Age
workers engineer a solution that bypasses their grid.

Checkmate for the Industrial Age, nation-states, and voting. Those are the
dinosaurs.

When will Armstrong have the epiphany and realize what time it really is?

His model is screaming that I am correct. Yet he is blinded by his old age
and ingrained thought patterns and experience as a hedge fund manager.

But every time I ask Armstrong a question which challenges his logic, he is unable to answer. So here we go again and he WON'T be able to answer for if he did, he would have to admit his error.

So who will enforce this reserve currency which is not tied to any government central bank, political fiscal process, and national debt?

These diverse cultures and nation-states are going to remain in perfect harmony in terms of agreeing to honor the discipline of this reserve currency without trying to gain any leverage (control) over it? So the stronger nations won't be able to obtain leverage over the smaller nations in terms of the enforcement and evolution of this reserve currency?

Illogical Nonsense.

The only way such a one world reserve currency will have the desired discipline on the nations (i.e. a government that is running fiscal deficits for the wrong reasons will see its currency and bond markets pummeled), is if there is force backing it so it will have the necessary confidence.

Armstrong can't see the real power players of the DEEP STATE that is the defacto world government today. He only sees the public and political curtain dog & pony circus that is allowed to run amok while the real power sits back and awaits the outcome of "the borrower is slave to the lender" or "he who controls the gold, makes the rules".

Those globalists are guiding the nation-states towards their debt collapse where they will fall into the lap of the true power structure which owns the fixed capital, Industrial world. They control the multi-nationals too.

Armstrong hilariously claims that the software giants such as Google are distancing themselves from the NSA corruption and cites this as evidence that the globalist plans and power is waning.

Hahaha, what a myopic dimwit he can be at times.

Yeah Google will put on a good dog & pony show for naive idiots to believe, while the astute sovereign hackers (Knowledge Age workers) understand very well that Google continues its march towards enabling the globalist TECHNOCRACY.

Let's take for example the French Revolution as an example. The masses rebelled due to the discontent over the mismanagement of the economy by the monarchy and nobility. However the power vacuum of democracy was filled by political corruption which had to be snuffed by a totalitarian dictator Napoleon.

The masses are sheep because planning by consensus is always a chaotic power vacuum. There is no solution to this, except to use technology to empower the individual to escape the failure of the collective. In the past the technology innovation was in the ability to populate new geographical frontiers. Now the technological innovation will be the anonymous and decentralized Knowledge Economy on the (new redesigned anonymous and decentralize) internet.

The key to understanding the outcome of this global sovereign debt crisis, is first to recognize that is not a nation-state phenomenon, rather it is global. The controllers this time are not the pawns (bureaucrats) figure heads in the nation-states, but rather the multi-national corporations and more specifically the global elite who own these.

Surely the global elite must understand that there is a huge level of overcapacity in the industrial (age) sectors. Whereas there is undercapacity in the Knowledge Age sectors, e.g. dearth of top computer programmers, etc.. Their goal is to maintain control while the industrial age declines and the knowledge age rises. They've placed their bets on Facebook, Google, etc.. They want to a centrally controlled internet and socialism. This is the only way they can maintain their overlordship status. They currently control all mass media too.

So they will maximize the debt levels and destruction of the global economy in order to plummet the sheep into an escapable socialism, wherein the entrepreneurs will always be targetted and destroyed if they don't sell out to the multi-nationals.

Of course we hackers are not going to allow them to do this. They will lose.

So it won't be society that wakes up. The hackers are already awake.

The global elite know this. Which is why they have a $3 trillion black budget for the NSA et al, so they are prepared for cyberwar.

Now prepare for battle and chaos. The sheep will be manipulated by the global elite throughout this.

I had written numerous times that the plan of the elite was to destroy and discredit the nation-state governance and central bank concept, such as quoted as follows from the "One-world reserve currency is inevitable" thread:

As I warned you, the countries will be pushed towards cooperating against financial crime:

http://www.theguardian.com/news/2016/apr/03/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-panama-papers

The globalists are destroying the nation-states on purpose and inciting the masses to clamor for a global discipline on malfeasance. I've known for a long time this would be coming. One thing you will learn about me by observing me over time is my ability to predict the future. For example was my 2011 prediction that the nations would not exit the EU and instead would double-down for more sloppy seconds.

Below I am beginning to see that the elite factions are only coordinated philosophically (and their even subconscious selfish aims thereof), and that is the concept of top-down control and secrecy. The order-out-of-chaos aspect might be deliberate and/or it might just be the natural evolution of a species.

The following is a collection of links to some of my past writings.

It all distills down to top-down centralized control is inferior to decentralized accretion of outcomes and fitness.

Besides the lust for money, power, and subconscious Satanic absolute control, what pragmatically drives these globalists is they have too much stored monetary capital and need to deploy it with great economies-of-scale, because the larger one's stored monetary capital becomes, the more difficult it is to manage a good return-on-investment. This is simply the rule of Second Law of Thermodynamics that small things grow faster, e.g. saplings grow very fast eventually slowing to mature trees, but they can't grow to the moon:

First of all, I want to explain why the Second Law of Thermodynamics dictates that energy must always disperse from a hot to a cold body, and not the reverse of a colder body giving up energy becoming colder and making the hot body hotter. This is because the equation for entropy of any system is maximized by having as many equiprobable possible states, i.e. the probability is very high that a hot body with its very highly probable collision of moving particles due to high kinetic energy will transfer some kinetic energy to the slower moving particles in the cold body because it maximizes the entropy of the combined system of hot and cold bodies together. But that is sort of a tautology. The point is that random events are unlikely to be able to keep a system highly ordered and concentrated, just as random twists on a Rubik's cube are unlikely to solve it. Since there can't exist any top-down omniscience in the universe, the probability of maintaining ordered systems trends towards zero on a large enough scale. This is why one can keep small things in order for a while, but large endeavors unravel more quickly. For the same reason, small things grow faster, such as a saplings grow to trees, but trees don't grow to the moon.

This is of course in addition to the Iron Law of Political Economics, which insures that flies are attracted to honey, i.e. that those who can charge rents to the collective will be drawn in by the power vacuum of awarding authority to a process. I had even elaborated on the fact that the special interest groups include the voters themselves.  I had commented recently in the context of the Philippines' recent decision to instill vigilante killing of suspected drug dealers, about how authority is always corruptible but my comment was not advocating what you the brain washed Westerner reader has been indoctrinated to think is correct.

I had tied this numerous times (such as on May 06, 2014) into my essays about the death of passive capital and the rise of a Knowledge Age that I think will be more immune to financialization. I even wrote a sequel as my prior blog The Golden Knowledge Age is Rising. I even related why usury must exist in order to attain growth within a stored monetary capital paradigm and yet must be a boom-and-bust, power vacuum phenomenon. Even centralized economy-of-scale driven industrial production requires financialization because it is not anti-fragile w.r.t. to force majure, long-tail distributions, and natural variance.

And there was my proclamation in 2014 that the solution would be decentralization. And again I reiterated that collectivized voting is the problem, with the implication that the only robust, resilient solution is decentralization.

I even nailed the homerun point that crypto-currency doesn't depend on ubiquitous confidence to become a global unit-of-exchange, because it doesn't rely on collectivized force to attain a precarious debt-based value. Even gold has to be stamped and assayed by a collective authority, which Proof-of-Work doesn't suffer, yet the remaining challenge is that neither Proof-of-Work nor (even Distributed) Proof-of-Stake are immune to economies-of-scale which enable centralized control (which is the remaining challenge of crypto-currency which I intend to solve!).

The premise that we can protect all the people is fundamentally implausible, which is what leads these Liberals astray into evil outcomes.

It is ironic that Liberals view themselves as selfless people focused on the good of the collective.

Another aspect we can note about Hillary Clinton and the globalists, is they prefer secrecy instead of decentralized open source. But decentralized open source is the only positive scaling law of engineering because the sharing doesn't violate the maximum-divison-of-expertise and the decentralization doesn't incur the rigor mortis of the Mythical Man Month.

I remember telling my grandfather when I was 15 or 16 that VOTING IS THE
PROBLEM. How come I can figure that out at such a young age, yet grown men
still have this delusion and don't understand the thermodynamics of the
power vacuum. For as long as men are deluded by the lie of the power of
voting, they will forever be hamsters. The desire to collectivize creates
a Coasian barrier to maximum entropy. The globalists then are entrusted to
design in the creative destruction, which is precisely the destruction of
the nation-states ongoing. You see while the nation states die and head
towards world government, the entropy routes around the Coasian barrier
into the technology arena, e.g. the crypto-currency era is born. In other
words, the only thing that has ever worked are frontiers that route around
the desire of stupid men to collectivize their votes. From the Biblical
perspective, the astute insight (whether God exists is irrelevant to
whether the lesson is astute) God tried to teach men this in 1 Samuel 8,
but men did not listen. So God said let them have their government and
reap what it will sow. 1 Samuel 15 was a fulfillment of the outcome of
such a Coasian barrier.

...

The world government already exists, but not yet in the open. THE DEEP
STATE is already the defacto government. You have written about its
existence.

You contradict yourself. You state elite groups can't cooperate, yet you
admit the very powerful DEEP STATE exists. What you fail to incorporate
into your logic is the thermodynamic fact that organisms (even in a Petri
dish) can be incentivized to cooperate within a Coasian barrier by some
common survival or profit strategy. Did Thatcher win on the EU? No! The
Bilderbergs and the DEEP STATE won.

You only see the creative destruction of the nation-states as the
invisible hand. The elite power structure is a natural Coasian result and
it isn't invisible. It exists. You even admitted it exists. You think the
DEEP STATE is temporary, yet it has been there since the time of the Kings
and it is growing more and more intrusive and powerful.

You should go listen to Hillary speak on Youtube where was speaking at the
CFR so you can correct your erroneous assumption.

As the nation-states collapse in the sovereign debt crisis, the borrower
is slave to the lender, and the defacto government will transitioned to
the official government. The EU Commission is an early example of this
open form of dictatorship that already exists in THE DEEP STATE.

...

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/05/26/hollande-calls-for-eu-to-reduce-its-role/

Quote from: Armstrong
The people of Europe never agreed to the Federalization
of Europe. The politicians thought they were clever and would sneak this
agenda in little by little. I have stated that they came to me at the
start of design. I told them flat outright the euro would fail unless
there was the nationalization of all member debts. They did not think they
could get the support for that at the time and pushed forward creating a
federal bureaucracy and a single currency. The design was a disaster and
warned them at that time the euro would fail. Without a consolidation of
the member debts, the euro could NEVER compete against the dollar nor
become the reserve currency lacing a deep market to park money.

The bureaucrats were given the ideology and agenda you saw on the public
face of it, but the globalist damn well knew they were creating it to fail
on purpose, because they knew the nation-states of Europe would be
destroyed by it and no longer able to return to sovereignty.

It is no longer reversible for economic reasons. To reverse it would be
mean too much pain for European boomers who are too old to fight and
rebuild.

The globalists' plan is working out as planned.

Yet you only see the public face it. You are fooled by the magician's
illusion, i.e. you are a sheep and can only see the ass of the sheep in
front of you.

Rising taxes is the stage where the nation-states self-destruct, as
planned. To usher in the power vacuum (chaos and misery) that gives rise
to an international discipline and solution circa 2032.

They are consolidating top-down control with a strategy of aiding and
abetting corruption of the nation-state institutions (e.g. Goldman Sachs
hid Greece's financials with derivatives to help worsen their sovereign
debt crisis), which will cause the global population to accede to reform
which will involve globalized institutions for transparency of
nation-states. For example, there will end up one international trade
currency, which the other nation-state currencies will float against. And
you Martin have even advocated this outcome!

One the multi-nationals get their tentacles on these globalized
institutions, they will truly have achieved taxation and government
without representation. We will be effectively ruled from far away and our
nation-state governments will just be figureheads, e.g. like the European
Parliament wherein the European Commission really has all the power.

...destroying the nation-state is part of the globalist plan (thoroughly documented above and in prior communications). The globalists foment the brain-dead actions and outcome of the politicians and the sheep.

The global elite are a natural outcome of the power vacuum of democracy and widespread communication technology and the shift to the Knowledge Age are driving the consolidation of global political power.

...Why would a globalist elite intent on destroying the nation-state sovereignty want to rescue the current structure of Western society? Instead by design, they want to crash and burn the current structure, so that the world will turn only to an international solution to political organization.

And they are succeeding. It is going exactly according to plan.

...

* the globalists won't be prepared to offer the new financial system until after the destroy and discredit the nation-states, so this open a period of a decade or two where there will be no other option except crypto-currency.

Btw, I see as I expected the globalists are pitching their NWO solution in the guise of discrediting their nation-state central banking:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=522050.msg5784742#msg5784742

Zuckerberg sent a letter too, yet Facebook and Google continue to increase their technologies for tracking everything. Facebook even monitors your pattern of typing so they can identify you even when you are not login. Google works on driveless cars and tracking you on every site via cookies and their ads on nearly every blog and website.

The fascism is not decreasing. There are only some nice letters sent to appease the public post-Snowden, whilest the reality is the fascism is increasing and will more so with FATCA and Obamacare so that only those multi-nationals can do business internationally and domestically.
Checkmate on the economy and the slide into the abyss of a Dark Age.

The people will protest and demand reform. And the globalists will give them an IMF controlled international reserve currency reset and global oversight for transparency of the nation-state corruption, to further enslave the people in Rothschild's control over the money supply (then the globalists will have their fingers on a global central banking lever).

...

In all cases, the globalists are funding and involved in these. Andy Sutton documented the money trail of their involvement with the Bolsheviks, etc.. The power vacuum of voting (collectivism) always creates
Totalitarianism. There are 0 exceptions in history, if you distill it down to the generative essence and thus fundamental truth. For example, see my point about Athen's democracy in the prior email yesterday. Therein the globalists were the slave owner "citizens" (who were a fraction of the global population that was enslaved).

Quote from: Armstrong
The only Republic that did not transform into an oligarchy was that of Genoa. There the richest families ruled, but each rotated as the Doge for one year. Thus, they never became Draconian for they feared retaliation the next year and they would be subject to their own laws. Career politicians are always exempt under our current system. Genoa did not fall into a rich v poor, it was business always that benefited the entire city for it perpetually competed against Florence and Venice. You simply cannot have career politicians – NO EXCEPTIONS!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Genoa#13th_and_14th_century

You again identify the symptom and not the cause! The symptom was competitive chaos that disallowed a dominant power structure to take over (thus preventing entrenched vested interests, i.e. your buzzword "career politicians"). But what caused that and thus enabled it? Come on man, think.

DECENTRALIZATION was how society rose out of the Dark Age of Western Rome.  And it will be exactly the same this time. The decentralization won't be driven by the top-down due to some reform of collectivism, rather from individuals and groups breaking free to new frontiers and competing from there...

Quote from: Armstrong
This is why as say it is NOT Capitalism that is in its death-throes, it is Socialism.

To be more precise, it is passive capital that is dying also, as we are moving into a decentralized Knowledge Age wherein the individual can create and distribute from his own knowledge capital (due to computers, internet, 3D printing, robotics, etc) and thus stored capital is dying.

Quote from: Armstrong
Eventually, they will create a new currency, default on the obligations, and we get a reset. This is where tangible assets come in. ALL ASSETS survive such a rest PROVIDED there is no war that results in the destruction of the infrastructure as we saw after World War II.

All tangible assets will be confiscated or end up illiquid. No exceptions. Stored capital is dying. We are leaving the Industrial Age wherein fixed capital was necessary. You are missing the entire trend. You are only looking at the highly VISIBLE symptoms and Bureaucrats and not looking deeper.
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February 16, 2017, 05:20:26 AM
 #2872

Life is doing circles in every aspect and the same goes for economics. Things goes bad, then something big happens (war ?) and we have a restart, a new era. Every great dynasty come down, now its a USA era, other countries try to compete and i dont think USA like it, maybe they will try to end thinks quickly with their superiority in army before CHINA and Russia advance more. I just hope humanity will find a more peaceful way to settle things than last time, WW1 and WW2. Sooner or later we will see

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February 17, 2017, 11:55:05 PM
 #2873

I've read through the PM's & Collapse thread...

But iamnotback makes some great points, namely:

during ww2 gold was used because it already the backbone of the system, unlike now.

as long as infrastructure survives (indicating a financial system collapse) the internet & the speed at which solutions can be engineered outside of governmental avenues. and crypto is blooming, could soon be as ubiquitous as mobile phones. if crypto overcomes onramping obstacles it could serve as the path of least resistance ie stored & sent via mobile phones.

that a total financial system collapse could shove us into a dark age of food shortages (4 meal theory) and need for weapons. in isolated or war torn areas, are PM's more viable than food or ammo.

And incorporate the creative destruction aspect of Stage #5.

So clearly we see what is being created is the antithesis of the NWO, i.e. the decentralized society that is rising to become Stage #6.

This is why the goldbugs are entirely wrong. The NWO is going to take Universal Surveillance control over the tangible economy and destroy it. All tangible stores of wealth will die, and only the new decentralized forms of capital in the Knowledge Age will survive.

And unlike the Fall of the Western Roman Empire, this NWO will be geographically global. The frontier this time will not be geographical (i.e. no Byzantine Eastern Empire), but rather the decentrzalized online economy will be the release value and frontier that provides the way out of the creative destruction.

This is absolutely crucial to understand. And I as @AnonyMint have been explaining this since 2012 with my seminal essay in the Economic Devastation thread and then the various quotes since such as in 2014.

The only source of Marxism is the Jews, it does not originate from anywhere else.

The actual source is the power vacuum created by the natural requirement to concentrate fixed capital in the Industrial Age. The banksters just stepped into that natural power vacuum.
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February 19, 2017, 05:08:02 AM
 #2874

It has always been my working thesis that none (let's say very few) of us can know the future.  It is too complex...

For one thing, there is A REASON the majority of large human settlements through history have been bordering the ocean.  If the crops go bad or if there's some type of scarcity issue, people just ratchet up the fishing.  There will be no global "TEOTWAWKI".

Sorry guys but you are incorrect. Stage #5 is not just one of many possible outcomes, it is the ONLY possible outcome. And the totalitarianism will be global w.r.t. to all things tangible and physical (including precious metals!), thus the only release valve frontier will be decentralization network technology. See the problem with your idyllic and naive fishing plan, is that some power will be preventing you from fishing as TSHTF, because the masses are going to be demanding that the resources are shared equally (which will morph into rationing+eugenics) and the chaos is going to dictate that there is fighting over control of all strategic resources. Remember the masses are not armed (especially outside of the USA) and for example the coasts in the USA are leftists controlled States, e.g. California, Washington and the north-east seaboard. China has ample military to occupy the West coast of the USA and prop up the leftists. The fish food supply would be critical if the conservative interior of the country has shut off supply of food to the coasts. Shutting down trade with the world and access to electronics and other technology can cripple the interior of the USA. An essential ingredient is have an interior that is steadfast on resisting international cooperation and the rise of China, which is Trump is the leading edge of right now. China will see itself as leading the "free" world to international harmony by defeating the renegade white supremacists in the USA. It is very obvious why Rothschild used his influence over Wikileaks and media in the USA to install Trump (also so the conservatives will eat the blame for the global collapse caused by socialism).

The socialism doesn't just die overnight. It dies a painful death of self-destructive totalitarianism. Haven't you guys learned anything from the studying the history of the collapse of Germany or Rome.

If you want to understand why the entropy of the top-down ordered outcome is so low and thus so predictable, refer to the Petri dish analogy from my seminal essay:


Also you have to factor in that China and Russia don't have the socialism and pension debts problem that the West has (their debts can be written off as their demographics and unfunded social liabilities are not yet a huge inertia so their downturn can bottom in 2020 whereas the West will continue to disintegrate even after 2032); thus as China is rebalancing their economy from the Industrial Age exports to the Knowledge Age service industry and consumption (see upthread links to Michael Pettis' blogs), they will displace the West, become the new financial center of the world, and be very strong. Thus the totalitarianism isn't going to abate, because on the heels of the disintegration of the West, China's and Russia's Technocracy form of oligarchy control is rising to a NWO. After Rothschilds' succeeds in dividing-and-conquering Europe and the USA, then he will send Chinese troops into the USA and Russian troops into Europe to complete the NWO enslavement. You aren't going to have any respite. The only release valve is going to be decentralization network technology. The Barbarians are the gates and in another couple to few of decades they will be in your living room. Your silly tangible assets are going to be pet rocks.

What Rothschilds is doing right now is building a short dollar vortex of epic pain, so the world will hate the concept of a reserve currency controlled by any one nation. So the world will acceded to an international cooperative SDR reserve unit (which of course Rothshilds will control with the international central bank).
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February 19, 2017, 08:47:05 AM
 #2875

I think this quotation from Lewis Mumford summarizes many key points in regard to current era economic policy.

I wish current era education made more of an effort to be honest with students rather than teaching blind faith in consumerism & the state.

Quote
The dogma of ‘increasing wants’ as an indispensible basis for further industrial progress. Instead of the duty to work, we now have the duty to consume. To ensure rapid absorbtion of its immense productivity, megatechnics resorts to a score of different devices: consumer credit, installment buying, multiple packaging, non-functional designs, meretricious novelties, shoddy materials, defective workmanship, built-in fragility.

The aim of industry is not primarily to satisfy essential human needs with a minimal productive effort, but to multiply the number of needs, factitious and fictitious, and accommodate them to the maximum mechanical capacity to produce profits. These are the sacred principle of the power complex. Not the least effort of this system is that of replacing selectivity and quantitative restriction by indiscriminate and incontinent consumption.

Thus the shorter working day promised by this system is already turning into a cheat. In order to achieve the higher level of consumption required, the members of the family must take on extra jobs. […] The effect, ironically, is to turn the newly won six- or seven-hour day to twelve or fourteen hours; so in effect, the worker is back where he started, with more material goods than ever before, but with less time to enjoy them or the promised leisure.

If all these goods are in themselves sound and individually desirable, on what grounds can we condemn the system that totalizes them? So say the official spokesmen. All these goods remain valuable if more important human concerns are not overlooked or eradicated. Unqualified successes in over-quantification.

When a scientist in good repute, like Dr. Lee du Bridge, can defend the wholesale immediate use of pesticides, bactericides, and possibly equally dangerous pharmaceuticals, by saying that it would take ten years to test them sufficiently to certify their value and innocuousness and that ‘industry cannot wait’ – it is obvious that his rational commitments to science are secondary to financial pressures, and that the safeguarding of human life is for industry not a matter of major concern.

The ironic effect of quantification is that many of the most desirable gifts of modern technics disappear when distributed en masse, or when – as with the television – they are used too constantly and too automatically. No umbilical cord attached man to nature: neiter ‘security’ nor ‘adjustment’ were the guidelines to human development.

Patrick Geddes: Conditions of degeneration in the organic world are approximately known. These conditions are often of two distinct kinds, deprivation of food, light, etc. so leading to imperfect nutrition and enervation; the other, a life of repose, with abundant supply of food and decreased exposure to the dangers of the environment. It is noteworthy that while the former only depresses, or at most distinguishes the specific type, the latter, through the disuse of the nervous and other structures etc. which such a simplification of life involves, brings about that far more insidious and through degeneration seen in the life history of myriads of parasites.

THE PENTAGON OF POWER, Lewis Mumford, 1970
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February 20, 2017, 06:59:41 AM
Last edit: February 20, 2017, 07:44:11 AM by iamnotback
 #2876

Spoetnik you are describing the fact that the lack of top-down order is a power vacuum due to Coasian costs. I agree, but I want you to read the thread from the following quote forward to the third quote, because Coasian costs become compatible with higher levels of entropy as mankind progresses (credit @CoinCube with that conceptual discovery) and we are leaving the Stage #4 Industrial Age:

Actually the conceptual discovery was mentioned by myself in 2010.

You will probably need a week or two of studying the thread slowly.

I will be the first to admit I needed a week or two to fully absorb the following works of AnonyMint.

The Rise of Knowledge
Understand Everything Fundamentally

Together these are quite simply the most insightful piece of economic theory I have ever read.

If the author is right and I think he is we are all in the midst of a tragedy of epic proportions.  It is sad unstoppable and will devastate the lives of much of humanity.

The seeds of those essays were written in 2010. Also here.

Elaboration continued into 2012.
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February 21, 2017, 11:20:42 AM
Last edit: February 21, 2017, 11:39:46 AM by tabnloz
 #2877

Cycles of Contention
Cycle #1  Cycle #2  Cycle #3  Cycle #4  Cycle #5  Cycle #6  
Mechanism of Control    Knowledge of Evil  Warlordism    Holy War  Usury  Universal Surveillance    Hedonism  
RulersThe Strong  Despots  God Kings/Monarchs    Capitalists    Oligarchs (NWO)  Decentralized Government    
Life of the Ruled"Nasty, Brutish, Short"    Slaves  Surfs  Debtors  Basic Income Recipients    Knowledge Workers  
Facilitated AdvanceKnowledge of Good    Commerce  Rule of Law  Growth  Transparency  Ascesis  




I haven't read the thread in full but as usual an interesting discussion. Will read more soon.

I would like to add 2 things about the stages mentioned here (including iamnotbacks later additions)

1. That I can see Stage 5 being a mix of Coincube & iamnotbacks interpretation. Totalitarian surveillance yet Basic Income in a kind of pay off (is that what is known as a Faustian bargain?) In other words, increasing encroachment upon civil liberties offset by tradeoffs to keep the public fat and happy. Maybe this would be done in order to keep things behind the curtain as long as possible or until the charade collapses? Or perhaps Stage 5 is where the gig is already up?

2. I also think that Stage 1 should be Stage 2. Stage 1 would be 'The Age of the Goddess', where humans are completely isolated in groups (after some ELE / catasptrophe) and a warming climate enables growth. Supplies are plentiful and the woman is cherished as she bears the future of humanity in her belly. There is no need for violence as groups are small, resources plenty and survival is the key. I base this on the period of around 6000 bc as the earth then warmed out of its last glacial maximum (15k BP), return during Younger Dryas (10k BP) and final ending in the unexplained warming spike that ends the Younger Dryas period around 8,000yrs ago.

edit: shit, wrong thread
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February 26, 2017, 08:41:43 AM
 #2878

Re: [POLL] Are You losing Interest [in crypto-currency]?

@dinofelis, for as long as physical violence is effective, we will continue to have government (per Max Weber's canonical definition of government as a "monopoly on the use of violence"), because the primary reason government formed was to enable civilization to progress from warlords to investment in commerce via sea transport (Athenian Empire) and roads (Roman Empire) for the Agricultural (first and second) revolutions. Government was necessary to aggregate the capital and protection for large economy-of-scale fixed capital investments continuing into the First and Second Industrial Ages. We are now entering the Second Computer Revolution which my thesis posits is spawning the Knowledge Age due to network effects from the First Computer Revolution.

So to get rid of the natural demand for government, then we need to transition the economy away from fixed capital investments to non-fungible, decentralized creativity. This is what my seminal essay in 2012 "Rise of Knowledge, Death of Finance" was about.

So we can't go all the way to Stage #6 in one step. We have to go through Stage #5 as a process of evolution.

Thus our decentralization technologies need to be compatible with Stage #5. That is why I am outlining what I conjecture to be some flaws in Monero's anonymity design. Afaics, we can't go all the way to "no taxes" now. Impossible. Asia will rise up and they don't have the socialism clusterfuck of the West, so they can have effective governance with low taxes. Thus IMO, Monero will not be tolerated by the society and thus governments in Stage #5.

Your model is too black & white. You need to imagine the transitional evolution mankind must go through.

@Spoetnik, my analysis of what has been transpiring and will transpire has been excellent. Have you reviewed the partial account of highlights my record? I'd prefer we stay on topic of the issues and that means not arguing about whether I am crazy or fallible. Refute our arguments instead.
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February 28, 2017, 05:49:49 PM
 #2879

All incorrect. In essence you are transposing cause and effect, as well transposing large scale changes fromwith "smaller things grow faster" changes. And the agriculture age required roads for economies-of-scale in commerce thus it was not decentralized. You have numerous errors like that throughout.

Well, this is an interesting subject.  Two-wheeled chariots were invented by a "distributed" people, the Andronovo culture in Siberia, about 2000 BC.  One of the oldest roads on earth was build in England at about 3800 BC (the Sweet Track) where it is hard to imagine that it was an empire-induced road building operation.

Again I repeat, you are conflating large scale change with "smaller things grow faster" changes.

Yeah those technological innovations and example prototypes occur due to spontaneous diversity in the decentralized (high entropy) wild, but to scale those innovations out to every human on earth at that time required the monopolist state to conquer all the warlords, and to keep order over interstate commerce. Otherwise it diverged into bandits waiting along the side of the road to effective force you into the business of trading contraband, which destroys commerce.

But the idea that you need a *violence monopolist* and a *king* in order to build roads and be able to do agriculture, is the misguided kind of social lie that we have been fed with since we were children.

...but I don't think that the price of giving all power to an aristocratic elite is necessary to achieve this, which is the basic tenet of statists.

Exactly. And even when a central violent monopolist does do things well (e.g. the height of rome), they don't actually need all that much power. For example look at the tax rate in the Roman empire before sh*t hit the fan. It was 2% but they had a huge empire connected with the best roads, agricultural systems and water distribution systems that weren't reached again till the modern era (and with like 30% tax rates). The problem is that central control brings in corruption and waste, somehow the Romans were able to avoid that (for a while).

Missing from your analysis is the fact that thermodynamic processes are irreversible and you can't just replicate into the past. The state of the empire at the end is of course inefficient, but nature didn't build the empire for the end, but rather for all that it accomplished before the end. You can't get all those in the middle without also getting the end. You can't have it both ways and eat your cake too. Sorry.

As the physical economy becomes a smaller and smaller portion of the total economy, we can move away from physical violence as necessary for human progress.

I also think that if you are dreaming of a "new economy" (the dematerialized economy you're talking about) before hoping that a distributed society like it was before agriculture, is possible again,

Agriculture was never decentralized. Hunting was decentralized. Agriculture required protection from the bandits. You apparently don't know anything about farming. The Bible says don't mix your field with many kinds of plants and don't produce just enough for yourself. Produce an whole hectare of produce and then trade. This is economy-of-scale and maximum division-of-labor which has been absolutely necessary for the productivity of man to increase above subsistence level.

...you will have to wait for eternity.

Dude it is already underway. This is covered extensively in the Economics Devastation thread in the Economics forum.

If you are convinced that one needs a king in order to make food, then we will always need a king (in more modern forms of presidents, parliaments, or whatever aristocratic structure).   Because we will never be free of material needs and always be prone to physical violence.

Wow. What you smoking?
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March 01, 2017, 10:04:40 AM
Last edit: March 01, 2017, 10:15:51 AM by iamnotback
 #2880

If you are convinced that one needs a king in order to make food, then we will always need a king (in more modern forms of presidents, parliaments, or whatever aristocratic structure).   Because we will never be free of material needs and always be prone to physical violence.

Wow. What you smoking?

If you believe that one day we will be free of material needs and will not be prone to violence, then I think the guy smoking heavily is on the other side of the line Wink

I still need a house, I still need food, I still need a lot of material stuff, and I can still be beaten up, tortured, and killed.  I don't think that this kind of thing will disappear in any near future, on the contrary.

Again you continue to conflate large scale with small scale. The key concepts you elided from your thought process were:

As the physical economy becomes a smaller and smaller portion of the total economy, we can move away from physical violence as necessary for human progress.

Instead of harvesting high diversity of effort (i.e. true investment) with a viral distribution model, IMO Byteball is creating a low entropy speculation with too much top-down control at the nascent stage where it needs exponential distribution. Thus the probability of failure is much higher, i.e. the antifragility is very low.

And the various ways I have tried to explain to you that annealing by decentralized failure is more antifragile than top-down failure. So thus when violence is only at an individual decentralized level, then it can't fail everywhere all at once. It anneals (please search the thread for my use of the word 'anneal'), as in simulated annealing as a form of free market fitness (which is why ice doesn't crack if you freeze it slowly enough).

So the point is that once the intangible Knowledge Age economy is orders-of-magnitude more valuable to humanity than the tangible one, then top-down control over the tangible one won't be economic. The top-down controller wouldn't be able to extract enough value from it to maintain control over those who extract value from the intangible economic.

And that my friend is a "genius" level divergent analysis. We can't train a machine to think this way, because it is induced from creative thinking originating from my unique experiences and integration in the human living network.

I hope you clearly see your error now.
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