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Author Topic: ALLMINE INC - FPGA Cryptominer  (Read 48469 times)
MinedTangerine
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June 07, 2018, 05:53:09 AM
 #341

Ok so lyra2z is hashing at 20 Mh/s. A single RX 580 hashes at 3.2 Mh/s. A single Vega64 hashes over 6 Mh/s.
You therefore need 6x RX 580 for one FPGA. But you can get 6x RX 580 probably for around half the price of a single FPGA.

It is as I thought it would be. They are not so terribly powerfull, but they do have a loooot better hash per W ratio. They are expensive, so basically for those with deep pockets. On the other hand as this is still a fairly new field being born again from the ashes, this means there will be some birthing problems etc...In the end I would still bet on GPUs simply because they are proven 100 times over and flexible.

You all have to also bear in mind theat GPUs today are basically 3-4 year old arhitecture. AMD for instance is going on with the same artitecture simply because they did not need to get out anything new. I am sure they (and NVIDIA) have much more powerfull GPUs already prepared but are holding back. So it can as well happen you pay costly for FPGAs just to have both GPU manufacturers release relly powefull cards at the end of the year for instance. And because of mass production they will always be cheaper.

I am definitely going to wait to see how all this plays out Smiley

EDIT:

And I just read about 90 days of waranty. Is this correct? I get 90 days of warranty for a 3K$ worth piece of tech. Em ok. Meanwhile I get years of warranty for GPUs. Man if that thing dies after 6 months thats gonna be really bad.

I don't try to put anyone down here don't get me wrong. You seem legit, I am just that voice of doubt in the back of peoples heads Smiley Although I am sure most will ignore me lol.

There are 2 different lyra2zs..

One is 2,8192,256 (zcoin)
The other is 8,8,8 (everything else)

Which one are you talking about? For the 8,8,8 coins the hashrates are significantly lower than 2,8192,256 (zcoin).


I am talking about the 8,8,8 coins I guess. The GIN coin and company. My RX 580 does 3.2 Mh/s rock solid and my RX 470 around 2.6 Mh/s. So i can match the hasrate for half the price with RX 580 cards but for a lot higher wattage. One cards uses around 100W on lyra2z so 600 for 20 MH/s. Although I would have to calculate when I do break even if I would buy a FPGA. Also you then have to calucate in all the potential problems a new product will have and you only give 90 days warranty. We have 0 experience how the cards will work. There is 0 millage on them by the community. On the other hands my RX 580 come with a long warranty the ability to mine any algo today are rock solid and proven 1000 times over. And I can resell them easily.

So as I see it now at least for lyra2z its not worth it at all. Again just stating my opinion, you seem like a good guy senseless. Thank you for showing your identity and thank you for trying to get FPGA to the masses. I know you could easily just skip that so I really don't want you to see this as me attacking you because I am not. I am just trying to be the voice of the opposite side;)

And keep up the good work, I am really interested what the performance on other algos will be Smiley
Also note that lyra2z is maybe a little speciall because people found out how to really do a good miner with AMD cards right now.

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June 07, 2018, 05:59:34 AM
Merited by senseless (3)
 #342

Senseless, there is something else.
"Non può parlarsi di difetto di conformità se al momento della
conclusione del contratto il consumatore è a conoscenza del difetto
o non poteva non esserne a conoscenza oppure se il bene risulta
difettoso a causa di materiali forniti direttamente dal consumatore.
Questa disposizione non è stata trasposta in maniera uniforme dalla
normativa dei vari Stati europei, pertanto non si può invocare la
tutela della garanzia legale:
1. Se il consumatore era a conoscenza del difetto al momento
dell’acquisto del prodotto (Belgio, Repubblica Ceca, Germania,
Estonia, Irlanda, Spagna, Francia, Italia, Cipro, Lussemburgo,
Lettonia, Paesi Bassi, Portogallo, Slovenia e Slovacchia);"

Sorry,its 5 AM and I am not awake enough to search for the english one...

In English: its enough that you clearly state /write/ on the website that the  good you are selling have  a maximum of 90 days continuos use since the day of delivery.
if its clearly written/stated on the order, no consumer can invoke the standard warranty law after that period in the country listed above.

If you need help/ detail, I am on Discord and on your discord server as well.
And I will take one when will be available Smiley

Gratzi


Oh yes sorry I should have made my stuff clearer.
There are two warranty in Europe.
The legal warranty which cover stuff like DOA and items which has design flaw making in unusable (for instance a chip that is not adapted and that will burn after two weeks). That one is two years in Europe (6 months when it's the maker which has to prove there is no issue, after 6 months it's the consumer who has to prove the issue)
The commercial warranty which CAN cover more than the legal warranty (in your case 90 days starting from purchase if any failure not caused by the user)
The commercial
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June 07, 2018, 06:02:13 AM
 #343

Ok so lyra2z is hashing at 20 Mh/s. A single RX 580 hashes at 3.2 Mh/s. A single Vega64 hashes over 6 Mh/s.
You therefore need 6x RX 580 for one FPGA. But you can get 6x RX 580 probably for around half the price of a single FPGA.

It is as I thought it would be. They are not so terribly powerfull, but they do have a loooot better hash per W ratio. They are expensive, so basically for those with deep pockets. On the other hand as this is still a fairly new field being born again from the ashes, this means there will be some birthing problems etc...In the end I would still bet on GPUs simply because they are proven 100 times over and flexible.

You all have to also bear in mind theat GPUs today are basically 3-4 year old arhitecture. AMD for instance is going on with the same artitecture simply because they did not need to get out anything new. I am sure they (and NVIDIA) have much more powerfull GPUs already prepared but are holding back. So it can as well happen you pay costly for FPGAs just to have both GPU manufacturers release relly powefull cards at the end of the year for instance. And because of mass production they will always be cheaper.

I am definitely going to wait to see how all this plays out Smiley

EDIT:

And I just read about 90 days of waranty. Is this correct? I get 90 days of warranty for a 3K$ worth piece of tech. Em ok. Meanwhile I get years of warranty for GPUs. Man if that thing dies after 6 months thats gonna be really bad.

I don't try to put anyone down here don't get me wrong. You seem legit, I am just that voice of doubt in the back of peoples heads Smiley Although I am sure most will ignore me lol.

There are 2 different lyra2zs..

One is 2,8192,256 (zcoin)
The other is 8,8,8 (everything else)

Which one are you talking about? For the 8,8,8 coins the hashrates are significantly lower than 2,8192,256 (zcoin).


I am talking about the 8,8,8 coins I guess. The GIN coin and company. My RX 580 does 3.2 Mh/s rock solid and my RX 470 around 2.6 Mh/s. So i can match the hasrate for half the price with RX 580 cards but for a lot higher wattage. One cards uses around 100W on lyra2z so 600 for 20 MH/s. Although I would have to calculate when I do break even if I would buy a FPGA. Also you then have to calucate in all the potential problems a new product will have and you only give 90 days warranty. We have 0 experience how the cards will work. There is 0 millage on them by the community. On the other hands my RX 580 come with a long warranty the ability to mine any algo today are rock solid and proven 1000 times over. And I can resell them easily.

So as I see it now at least for lyra2z its not worth it at all. Again just stating my opinion, you seem like a good guy senseless. Thank you for showing your identity and thank you for trying to get FPGA to the masses. I know you could easily just skip that so I really don't want you to see this as me attacking you because I am not. I am just trying to be the voice of the opposite side;)

And keep up the good work, I am really interested what the performance on other algos will be Smiley
Also note that lyra2z is maybe a little speciall because people found out how to really do a good miner with AMD cards right now.


After looking into it, I see someone released a new optimized kernel that I either didn't see before or was just recently released... Yes, GPU hashrates have increased a bit from where they were when I was doing my calculations. All I can say is, the core is still under development and I'm not going to promise anything I can't deliver.


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June 07, 2018, 06:04:39 AM
 #344

Would u offer shipment to europe without warranty and with low value marked on the shipping to ease the pain of import taxes?

Wil the cards run on win 10 or only linux for now?

Also some pictures of modded and unmodded cards would be good on the website ;-)

Thx
Dont play with customs ! Allmine INC is a serious company. Not your random vendor on Ebay whom you can ask that kind of thing.
MinedTangerine
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June 07, 2018, 06:07:40 AM
 #345

Ok so lyra2z is hashing at 20 Mh/s. A single RX 580 hashes at 3.2 Mh/s. A single Vega64 hashes over 6 Mh/s.
You therefore need 6x RX 580 for one FPGA. But you can get 6x RX 580 probably for around half the price of a single FPGA.

It is as I thought it would be. They are not so terribly powerfull, but they do have a loooot better hash per W ratio. They are expensive, so basically for those with deep pockets. On the other hand as this is still a fairly new field being born again from the ashes, this means there will be some birthing problems etc...In the end I would still bet on GPUs simply because they are proven 100 times over and flexible.

You all have to also bear in mind theat GPUs today are basically 3-4 year old arhitecture. AMD for instance is going on with the same artitecture simply because they did not need to get out anything new. I am sure they (and NVIDIA) have much more powerfull GPUs already prepared but are holding back. So it can as well happen you pay costly for FPGAs just to have both GPU manufacturers release relly powefull cards at the end of the year for instance. And because of mass production they will always be cheaper.

I am definitely going to wait to see how all this plays out Smiley

EDIT:

And I just read about 90 days of waranty. Is this correct? I get 90 days of warranty for a 3K$ worth piece of tech. Em ok. Meanwhile I get years of warranty for GPUs. Man if that thing dies after 6 months thats gonna be really bad.

I don't try to put anyone down here don't get me wrong. You seem legit, I am just that voice of doubt in the back of peoples heads Smiley Although I am sure most will ignore me lol.

There are 2 different lyra2zs..

One is 2,8192,256 (zcoin)
The other is 8,8,8 (everything else)

Which one are you talking about? For the 8,8,8 coins the hashrates are significantly lower than 2,8192,256 (zcoin).


I am talking about the 8,8,8 coins I guess. The GIN coin and company. My RX 580 does 3.2 Mh/s rock solid and my RX 470 around 2.6 Mh/s. So i can match the hasrate for half the price with RX 580 cards but for a lot higher wattage. One cards uses around 100W on lyra2z so 600 for 20 MH/s. Although I would have to calculate when I do break even if I would buy a FPGA. Also you then have to calucate in all the potential problems a new product will have and you only give 90 days warranty. We have 0 experience how the cards will work. There is 0 millage on them by the community. On the other hands my RX 580 come with a long warranty the ability to mine any algo today are rock solid and proven 1000 times over. And I can resell them easily.

So as I see it now at least for lyra2z its not worth it at all. Again just stating my opinion, you seem like a good guy senseless. Thank you for showing your identity and thank you for trying to get FPGA to the masses. I know you could easily just skip that so I really don't want you to see this as me attacking you because I am not. I am just trying to be the voice of the opposite side;)

And keep up the good work, I am really interested what the performance on other algos will be Smiley
Also note that lyra2z is maybe a little speciall because people found out how to really do a good miner with AMD cards right now.


After looking into it, I see someone released a new optimized kernel that I either didn't see before or was just recently released... Yes, GPU hashrates have increased a bit from where they were when I was doing my calculations. All I can say is, the core is still under development and I'm not going to promise anything I can't deliver.



Yes for AMD, tdxminer does 3.2 MH/s on RX 580. I am using it for the last month and it works rock stable on Linux. There is also another Kernel that supposedly can do even better. The author claimed like 25% better but then never released it because of the tdxminer. Could be just vapor for all we know it. He wanted a 25% fee for the miner lol.

The AMD cards can do wonders on some algos its just that there are no publicly available really optimized miners for them. That was proven first with optimizing x16r for AMD (and I am sure there is still room) and now with lyra2z. For a long time AMD was all ethash and cryptonight but its slowly changing now.

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June 07, 2018, 06:20:41 AM
 #346

are these cards the same of this or what is diferend?: https://www.xilinx.com/products/boards-and-kits/vcu1525-a.html
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June 07, 2018, 06:57:04 AM
 #347

limit to cryptonight :
there are 2160BRAM+960URAM in XCVU9P,you can use 38MB in big ram cascade mode,that is 19 core
each cryptonight  hash need 1M memory read and write cycles.
if you remove all pipeline,you may get 100H @100MHz per core.
if you all pipeline to improve fmax,you will get slower hashrate.
it maybe very hard to run 100MHz with no pipeline.
assume it is 100MHz,19CORE, the max hashrate is 1900H/s.
if using extern DDR4,the limit is bandwidth,36MB per hash,each DDR4-2400 may get 533H/s,
but the cryptonight  random access rate is 16byte ,memory random access rate is 128byte , the valid efficiency is 1/8
each DDR4-2400 may can get 66.6H/s,and 4 DDR4 you get 266H/s

the max theoretical cryptonight hashrate is 1900+266=2166 H/s
Don't dream to get 22KH/s

Wow you have no idea. In fact your maximum is so far below the basic achievable without any tricks  that I now have zero confidence in anything you’ve posted.
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June 07, 2018, 07:23:06 AM
 #348

[
There's a pretty simple solution for all the potential buyers out there. If you don't like the terms/warranty, then don't buy it, simple as that. No one is holding a gun to the buyer's head to buy a product with only 90 days warranty.

If you would like a 1 year warranty, then I suggest senseless create a 3rd product on his website for $15,000 board with included 1 year warranty. There, buyer's have options now.

Easy as 1, 2, 3.

Huawei didn't hold the gun but is paying 1B fines. Easy as that.

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June 07, 2018, 07:23:55 AM
 #349

limit to cryptonight :
there are 2160BRAM+960URAM in XCVU9P,you can use 38MB in big ram cascade mode,that is 19 core
each cryptonight  hash need 1M memory read and write cycles.
if you remove all pipeline,you may get 100H @100MHz per core.
if you all pipeline to improve fmax,you will get slower hashrate.
it maybe very hard to run 100MHz with no pipeline.
assume it is 100MHz,19CORE, the max hashrate is 1900H/s.
if using extern DDR4,the limit is bandwidth,36MB per hash,each DDR4-2400 may get 533H/s,
but the cryptonight  random access rate is 16byte ,memory random access rate is 128byte , the valid efficiency is 1/8
each DDR4-2400 may can get 66.6H/s,and 4 DDR4 you get 266H/s

the max theoretical cryptonight hashrate is 1900+266=2166 H/s
Don't dream to get 22KH/s

Wow you have no idea. In fact your maximum is so far below the basic achievable without any tricks  that I now have zero confidence in anything you’ve posted.

Yeah I thought that sounded too low also
Whats your estimate?
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June 07, 2018, 07:28:59 AM
 #350

Don't worry, they just posted up cryptonight V1 at 14k/h

I was hoping for better, lol

Thats equivalent 7 vega
In UK you can pick up 6 Vegas for around the same price
It'll use more power
But you'll be able to resell easier

If I tried I'm sure I could get 6 vega up to 14kh with some SoC tweaking
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June 07, 2018, 07:30:36 AM
 #351

And....
Unless the new bitstreams are completely free you'd end up paying more over time
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June 07, 2018, 08:14:43 AM
 #352

As I already stated in some threads the FPGA were overhyped as its the usual in crypto. There will be some scam threads (like that dwarf FPGA) and there will be legit ones like this one here. But the performance is not what people hoped it to be, or feared it to be it seems. They are good if you have deep pockets because they concentrate power and if you are doing large scale they have really low power consumption and that is indeed very important. But I don't see FPGA yet being relavant for the ordinary home miners like myself. For large scale operations definitely but for home use, no. To much uncertainty, to short warranty. For that price to much risk overall. On the other hand it will be interesting to see how much optimization sw developers can squeeze out of these cards and how much they can improve the hashrates.

Its interesting to watch things develop. I will definitely closely monitor the progress and read the first user reports Smiley

So no worries for GPU miner as I predicted. Always so much noise but GPU mining is here to stay and is still quite nicely profitable.

SUQA - A new open source peer to peer digital currency
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June 07, 2018, 09:06:14 AM
 #353

And....
Unless the new bitstreams are completely free you'd end up paying more over time

Bitstream development is open to anyone. We may have some egalitarians releasing bitstreams with no fee.


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June 07, 2018, 09:09:47 AM
 #354

As I already stated in some threads the FPGA were overhyped as its the usual in crypto. There will be some scam threads (like that dwarf FPGA) and there will be legit ones like this one here. But the performance is not what people hoped it to be, or feared it to be it seems. They are good if you have deep pockets because they concentrate power and if you are doing large scale they have really low power consumption and that is indeed very important. But I don't see FPGA yet being relavant for the ordinary home miners like myself. For large scale operations definitely but for home use, no. To much uncertainty, to short warranty. For that price to much risk overall. On the other hand it will be interesting to see how much optimization sw developers can squeeze out of these cards and how much they can improve the hashrates.

Its interesting to watch things develop. I will definitely closely monitor the progress and read the first user reports Smiley

So no worries for GPU miner as I predicted. Always so much noise but GPU mining is here to stay and is still quite nicely profitable.

What is the most interesting part of FPGA for me is the concentration.
Heck if for the same price of my 24*1070ti i can have 3 FPGA than use only 400w instead of 2500w that will produce less heat and be more profitable why not run with it.
But the main issue is obviously the know how which i'm lacking.
I wish i could develop my own bitstream
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June 07, 2018, 09:23:41 AM
 #355

[
There's a pretty simple solution for all the potential buyers out there. If you don't like the terms/warranty, then don't buy it, simple as that. No one is holding a gun to the buyer's head to buy a product with only 90 days warranty.

If you would like a 1 year warranty, then I suggest senseless create a 3rd product on his website for $15,000 board with included 1 year warranty. There, buyer's have options now.

Easy as 1, 2, 3.

Huawei didn't hold the gun but is paying 1B fines. Easy as that.

For warranty? Can't seem to google any related article about that 1B fines and Huawei, got link?

█ BTC: 32aWPuC6oLREi1LWWrEinnzGaV4w28Pzwb
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June 07, 2018, 09:59:41 AM
 #356

As I already stated in some threads the FPGA were overhyped as its the usual in crypto. There will be some scam threads (like that dwarf FPGA) and there will be legit ones like this one here. But the performance is not what people hoped it to be, or feared it to be it seems. They are good if you have deep pockets because they concentrate power and if you are doing large scale they have really low power consumption and that is indeed very important. But I don't see FPGA yet being relavant for the ordinary home miners like myself. For large scale operations definitely but for home use, no. To much uncertainty, to short warranty. For that price to much risk overall. On the other hand it will be interesting to see how much optimization sw developers can squeeze out of these cards and how much they can improve the hashrates.

Its interesting to watch things develop. I will definitely closely monitor the progress and read the first user reports Smiley

So no worries for GPU miner as I predicted. Always so much noise but GPU mining is here to stay and is still quite nicely profitable.

What is the most interesting part of FPGA for me is the concentration.
Heck if for the same price of my 24*1070ti i can have 3 FPGA than use only 400w instead of 2500w that will produce less heat and be more profitable why not run with it.
But the main issue is obviously the know how which i'm lacking.
I wish i could develop my own bitstream

Sure, I agree, thats why I said its for the big players. But for me and other small miners its much easier to scale card by card. I buy AMD cards (RX 580) as they are affordable and offer quite a bang for the buck. This way I can scale nicely over time because I don't have the means to just cash out 3-4K$. And even if I did have that means this is a completely fresh market. And with that you don't even know what kind of problems you will encounter. Some people have full pockets of cash it seems and can throw 10K out the Windows if need be, but I can't. I need to check every dollar I invest into mining.

And most people are like me not like those just diving in blind. Thats why I am sure FPGA will be a niche game for quite a long time if not forever.

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June 07, 2018, 10:01:54 AM
 #357

And most people are like me not like those just diving in blind. Thats why I am sure FPGA will be a niche game for quite a long time if not forever.

I'll take that action. Name the wager Smiley

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June 07, 2018, 10:08:45 AM
 #358


And most people are like me not like those just diving in blind. Thats why I am sure FPGA will be a niche game for quite a long time if not forever.
I'm not that sure.
With the number of miners on the planet running more than 1 rig, there is enough pockets to be emptied.
Issue could be stock and network resilience.
Multiple FPGA farm can kick out GPU miners like myself the same way ASICs can (and do)
And if small GPU miners using only one or two card to mine get out of mining because of profitability then the whole network suffers at the profit of FPGA miners until ProgPOW become mainstream and kicks out ASIC and turn FPGA programming to a nightmare (or at least makes it far less profitable)
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June 07, 2018, 10:30:44 AM
 #359

Sure, the Xilinx FPGAs are expensive, but the more "mainstream" they become, the cheaper they will be. There are options too... Like the Acorn accelerator (or the highly-rated Dwarfminer Cheesy) that can be had for $3-400 etc. The fpga's have a big advantage over ASICs too: as long as they are re-programmable (and different algos and forks thereof get produced), they can be used. The race against time isn't at all as critical as when you buy anything from Shitmain.



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vapourminer
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Activity: 2469
Merit: 1234


what is this "brake pedal" you speak of?


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June 07, 2018, 11:19:17 AM
 #360

90 day warranty is a big turnoff for a 3-4k USD item.

is there not a way to build in protection circuits to the device. i know the fpga will not self throttle (afaik) without specific bitstream support (maybe i have that wrong?) but surely there are ways to monitor critical sections of the cards (VRMs, FPGA, support chips, whatever) to downclock the device. i mean gpus are more or less bulletproof in that regard, why cant your card do the same.

seems the only thing outside of your control is ESD damage. that i can see as most miners probably ignore it.

at least offer an extended warranty for an added price.

180 days i could handle, 90 days, not so much. sounds almost like youre deliberately running beyond spec and cooling abilities and dont expect it to last.

no disrespect intended but self preservation seems like it should be built into high performance parts from day one.

EDIT btw not all miners abuse their rigs. my rigs lead a better life than my daily driver.. constant power (no cycling), better cooling, more checks for maintenance (temps, dust, cable conditions) etc.
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