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vach
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August 23, 2014, 11:37:31 AM |
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I'll reformulize my conclusion to "i'm not investing"  I just hope that audit document will proof the validity. |
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Grinder
Legendary
 Offline
Activity: 1284
Merit: 1001
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August 23, 2014, 12:45:07 PM |
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That is like asking KFC for the Colonel's recipe or asking Rolex for their blueprints. At the start there were a few days that the results fluctuated like that,and that caused panic. John then adapted the strategy to make the results more consistent while trying to maintain the average monthly growth. So exactly the thing that makes you skeptic made others nervous at an earlier point.
As anyone who have tried doing some serious trading knows, you can't just adapt away from the drastically varying Bitcoin market conditions and keep the profits. Of course if you're just making them up it's much easier to give the customers the numbers they want. I'm sure that in the next ponzi he starts he'll incorporate some of the criticism he's gotten while running this one. It's just too hard to do it now and still pretend to be a real business. For instance I'm pretty sure next time he'll say he's running bots, because claiming to do it manually is just silly. |
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vach
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August 23, 2014, 12:57:23 PM |
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You can arbitrage without moving funds here and there and that way keeping costs at minimum...
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Frankie
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August 23, 2014, 01:47:30 PM |
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looking at the results the curve is broken in the two time periods, before April and after April
they are saying they opened a new office in china and hired two new trader for implementing chinese exchanges in their system. the result of that, they claimed were flater results and less negative trading results. that could be the explanation for that and not a secret at all. Yeah, because it's really easy for a dodgy Panama-registered corporation to hire employees in China. I believe every pro-BT must know or strongly suspect this is a Ponzi, and you're still here in hopes that another generation of suckers will pay back your principal. |
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vach
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August 23, 2014, 01:51:42 PM |
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looking at the results the curve is broken in the two time periods, before April and after April
they are saying they opened a new office in china and hired two new trader for implementing chinese exchanges in their system. the result of that, they claimed were flater results and less negative trading results. that could be the explanation for that and not a secret at all. Because its really easy for a dodgy Panama-registered corporation to hire employees in China. I believe every pro-BT must know or strongly suspect this is a Ponzi, and you're still here in hopes that another generation of suckers will pay back your principal. They actually did Thus the confusion  |
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zoonosis
Copper Member
Member
Offline
Activity: 199
Merit: 14
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August 23, 2014, 10:28:10 PM |
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You can arbitrage without moving funds here and there and that way keeping costs at minimum...
Would you mind explaining briefly how you would do that? Most arbitrage opportunities I see are only one way, so you'd have to move funds around. |
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Keyser Soze
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August 24, 2014, 12:12:17 AM |
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See,that is the kind of feedback I love seeing. People making decisions on their own without humdrumming about. If you feel something is a scam,don't muck about,just say it out loud and stand by your decision. BT is not a scam and not a Ponzy,and the beauty of p2p is that the more trust is built over time the more a company will be trusted. I would like to turn the tables a bit and ask for hard evidence that Bitcoin Trader is indeed a ponzy,and solid proof that we don't do arbitrage trading. In all fairness,all the evidence anyone on here has given is merely speculation and conclusions based on interpretations from a lack of evidence. So I will personally give a $100 reward for undeniable hard evidence that Bitcoin Trader is a Ponzy scheme.
No one besides people who know the inner workings of BT will be able to provide you this hard evidence. Outsiders do not have access to their data, how can anyone outside the company provide hard evidence? People are saying it is a ponzi/hyip because it follows many of the common traits of one. If they really had a business model that can pay "investors" ~1% per day, they wouldn't need to borrow money from them. With that kind of growth, they would be easily be able to self-finance. Even if they started out with no money and needed to borrow, they should have been able to pay that back long ago. Why would they need to keep borrowing money at insane rates? If they were legit, they would pay everyone out, close to the public and arbitrage using the profits they have made since they started out. Why would they share their high profit money making strategy with you? They are doing all the work, why would they want to pay you for doing nothing? |
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roparker2014
Member
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Activity: 119
Merit: 100
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August 24, 2014, 12:14:33 AM |
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One more question for TraderThom ...
So if arbitrage trading involves keeping large sums at a number of exchanges, in order to be able to quickly capitalise on opportunities ...
Is that "our" (investors') coins on the exchanges? And therefore at risk from a number of companies "doing a mtGox"?
Do we as investors take that risk? It seems that it can't be avoided really, seeing as the whole point of us investing is so that BT have greater leverage to capitalise on arbitrage opportunities (that wouldn't be the case if our invested coins were in cold storage, obviously).
Regardless, I've invested a small sum with BT - I'm willing to take the risk. Once I've recovered it, I'll start investing more, and ride it as far as it goes!
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PinkPanther99
Newbie
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Activity: 17
Merit: 0
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August 24, 2014, 03:38:22 AM |
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About this Audit, it was stated in the group it would be completed by the end of August. You also said that BT would have to set a weekday to not trade, meaning members wouldn't receive a payout... It was also said that an extra cut would be taken from our earnings to pay for this Audit.
With 8 days left of august (meaning one trading week left), I'm curious to know when BT is going to disclose which day they wont be trading, and how much this "extra cut" is going to be... and how long this extra cut is going to be taken out for... It's all being left rather last minute if you ask me...
@TraderThom, you seem to have over looked my questions... |
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PinkPanther99
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 17
Merit: 0
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August 24, 2014, 03:45:41 AM |
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One more question for TraderThom ...
So if arbitrage trading involves keeping large sums at a number of exchanges, in order to be able to quickly capitalise on opportunities ...
Is that "our" (investors') coins on the exchanges? And therefore at risk from a number of companies "doing a mtGox"?
Do we as investors take that risk? It seems that it can't be avoided really, seeing as the whole point of us investing is so that BT have greater leverage to capitalise on arbitrage opportunities (that wouldn't be the case if our invested coins were in cold storage, obviously).
Regardless, I've invested a small sum with BT - I'm willing to take the risk. Once I've recovered it, I'll start investing more, and ride it as far as it goes!
At this point I wouldnt be surprised if BT do a Mt Gox in the coming week... With no info on this Audit, and the website going down twice in the past 2 days, Im kind of expecting the email that says "oops we got hacked, your money is gone, k cya bye" |
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Frankie
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August 24, 2014, 05:01:47 AM |
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You can arbitrage without moving funds here and there and that way keeping costs at minimum...
Would you mind explaining briefly how you would do that? Most arbitrage opportunities I see are only one way, so you'd have to move funds around. I think he's trying to describe something like pairs trading, which works, but doesn't eke out much profit in flat markets, especially given the larger base of capital needed. Same issue that the returns would be decent on a few days but basically nil most days since springtime. And this is without even considering why it makes literally no sense to spend some much time tracking small "deposits" with such exorbitant costs. That's the real problem with the scheme--not the difficulty of making profit, but absurd stupidity that would cause a hypothetical arbitrageur to buy leverage in the most expensive and time-consuming way imaginable. they are saying they opened a new office in china and hired two new trader for implementing chinese exchanges in their system. the result of that, they claimed were flater results and less negative trading results. that could be the explanation for that and not a secret at all.
Because its really easy for a dodgy Panama-registered corporation to hire employees in China. I believe every pro-BT must know or strongly suspect this is a Ponzi, and you're still here in hopes that another generation of suckers will pay back your principal. They actually did Thus the confusion Really? You have no money being held by BT that you hope to get back? You're promoting a service you yourself don't even subscribe to? |
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vach
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August 24, 2014, 08:16:09 AM
Last edit: August 24, 2014, 11:07:37 AM by vach |
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You can arbitrage without moving funds here and there and that way keeping costs at minimum...
Would you mind explaining briefly how you would do that? Most arbitrage opportunities I see are only one way, so you'd have to move funds around. I think he's trying to describe something like pairs trading, which works, but doesn't eke out much profit in flat markets, especially given the larger base of capital needed. Same issue that the returns would be decent on a few days but basically nil most days since springtime. And this is without even considering why it makes literally no sense to spend some much time tracking small "deposits" with such exorbitant costs. That's the real problem with the scheme--not the difficulty of making profit, but absurd stupidity that would cause a hypothetical arbitrageur to buy leverage in the most expensive and time-consuming way imaginable. they are saying they opened a new office in china and hired two new trader for implementing chinese exchanges in their system. the result of that, they claimed were flater results and less negative trading results. that could be the explanation for that and not a secret at all.
Because its really easy for a dodgy Panama-registered corporation to hire employees in China. I believe every pro-BT must know or strongly suspect this is a Ponzi, and you're still here in hopes that another generation of suckers will pay back your principal. They actually did Thus the confusion Really? You have no money being held by BT that you hope to get back? You're promoting a service you yourself don't even subscribe to? No I had lot of money on BT but a week ago I get all back + earned 70%, now I'm not sure to reinvest or what I'll wait until that audit comes out, and brobably will invest part of my earned coins... And i'm not promoting it for sure. |
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sunny1
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August 24, 2014, 09:05:31 AM |
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You can arbitrage without moving funds here and there and that way keeping costs at minimum...
Would you mind explaining briefly how you would do that? Most arbitrage opportunities I see are only one way, so you'd have to move funds around. Probably he means doing it with the balancing coins. |
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vach
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August 24, 2014, 09:08:58 AM |
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You can arbitrage without moving funds here and there and that way keeping costs at minimum...
Would you mind explaining briefly how you would do that? Most arbitrage opportunities I see are only one way, so you'd have to move funds around. Probably he means doing it with the balancing coins. Yes thats what I mean, its to simple to explain, but if someone needs an explanation just ask. When dealing with fiat currency moving fund is to expensive to do arbitrage thus you are using mentioned tecknique to benefit from arbitrage. |
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TraderThom
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
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August 25, 2014, 06:29:18 AM |
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One more question for TraderThom ...
So if arbitrage trading involves keeping large sums at a number of exchanges, in order to be able to quickly capitalise on opportunities ...
Is that "our" (investors') coins on the exchanges? And therefore at risk from a number of companies "doing a mtGox"?
Do we as investors take that risk? It seems that it can't be avoided really, seeing as the whole point of us investing is so that BT have greater leverage to capitalise on arbitrage opportunities (that wouldn't be the case if our invested coins were in cold storage, obviously).
Regardless, I've invested a small sum with BT - I'm willing to take the risk. Once I've recovered it, I'll start investing more, and ride it as far as it goes!
At this point I wouldnt be surprised if BT do a Mt Gox in the coming week... With no info on this Audit, and the website going down twice in the past 2 days, Im kind of expecting the email that says "oops we got hacked, your money is gone, k cya bye" If that happens I have a serious problem. But what will it mean if it doesn't happen? Will you be less skeptic? |
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rhader
Member
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Activity: 109
Merit: 10
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August 25, 2014, 06:30:52 AM |
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OK so the conclusion is BT is a scam as well...
See,that is the kind of feedback I love seeing. People making decisions on their own without humdrumming about. If you feel something is a scam,don't muck about,just say it out loud and stand by your decision. BT is not a scam and not a Ponzy,and the beauty of p2p is that the more trust is built over time the more a company will be trusted. I would like to turn the tables a bit and ask for hard evidence that Bitcoin Trader is indeed a ponzy,and solid proof that we don't do arbitrage trading. In all fairness,all the evidence anyone on here has given is merely speculation and conclusions based on interpretations from a lack of evidence. So I will personally give a $100 reward for undeniable hard evidence that Bitcoin Trader is a Ponzy scheme. I'll give 1000$ for evidence that it is not. Because if its not, and i can safely invest all my money there, then after a year of reinvestment I'd have passive income enough to live the live I always wanted. You wont believe how much i want it to be a true business (i think the fact that i'm spending this much time on this is a clear indication for that) But the problem in my case is that my greed often failed me, because i was relying on lack of evidence that something is a scam instead i should rely only on facts that it is not. And unfortunately there are no facts, right now I dont see any legitimate business to earn passive income buy investing my money. Ahh, good ole greed. Hasnt that bitch cost us all. |
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crazyivan
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1007
DMD Diamond Making Money 4+ years! Join us!
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August 25, 2014, 07:20:47 AM |
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One more question for TraderThom ...
So if arbitrage trading involves keeping large sums at a number of exchanges, in order to be able to quickly capitalise on opportunities ...
Is that "our" (investors') coins on the exchanges? And therefore at risk from a number of companies "doing a mtGox"?
Do we as investors take that risk? It seems that it can't be avoided really, seeing as the whole point of us investing is so that BT have greater leverage to capitalise on arbitrage opportunities (that wouldn't be the case if our invested coins were in cold storage, obviously).
Regardless, I've invested a small sum with BT - I'm willing to take the risk. Once I've recovered it, I'll start investing more, and ride it as far as it goes!
At this point I wouldnt be surprised if BT do a Mt Gox in the coming week... With no info on this Audit, and the website going down twice in the past 2 days, Im kind of expecting the email that says "oops we got hacked, your money is gone, k cya bye" If that happens I have a serious problem. But what will it mean if it doesn't happen? Will you be less skeptic? I suggest you invite someone to bet you. A few weeks ago, there was a guy willing to bet $1000 that Bitcoin trader will not be here in 4 months, when the next round of shares mature. I am sure Bitcoin trader would accept that bet, implement it via escrow. This is an excellent way to silent skeptics among BTC community. |
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Grinder
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1284
Merit: 1001
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August 25, 2014, 07:25:27 AM |
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I suggest you invite someone to bet you. A few weeks ago, there was a guy willing to bet $1000 that Bitcoin trader will not be here in 4 months, when the next round of shares mature. I am sure Bitcoin trader would accept that bet, implement it via escrow. This is an excellent way to silent skeptics among BTC community.
Of course they would. It's a great deal for them to pay $1000 if it gives them an extra $2000 in deposits. |
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sunny1
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August 25, 2014, 07:08:28 PM |
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OK so the conclusion is BT is a scam as well...
See,that is the kind of feedback I love seeing. People making decisions on their own without humdrumming about. If you feel something is a scam,don't muck about,just say it out loud and stand by your decision. BT is not a scam and not a Ponzy,and the beauty of p2p is that the more trust is built over time the more a company will be trusted. I would like to turn the tables a bit and ask for hard evidence that Bitcoin Trader is indeed a ponzy,and solid proof that we don't do arbitrage trading. In all fairness,all the evidence anyone on here has given is merely speculation and conclusions based on interpretations from a lack of evidence. So I will personally give a $100 reward for undeniable hard evidence that Bitcoin Trader is a Ponzy scheme. i think you already lost your money. They did not give any proof that they are making any profit. Thats a hard evidence that they are a ponzy. Can I have my $100 in b-t.biz shares, please? lol, what a moron you are! |
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PinkPanther99
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 17
Merit: 0
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August 26, 2014, 04:05:04 PM |
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Posting this for the third time, as Thomas Opperman seems to be avoiding my question...
About this Audit, it was stated in the group it would be completed by the end of August. You also said that BT would have to set a weekday to not trade, meaning members wouldn't receive a payout... It was also said that an extra cut would be taken from our earnings to pay for this Audit.
With 8 days left of august (meaning one trading week left), I'm curious to know when BT is going to disclose which day they wont be trading, and how much this "extra cut" is going to be... and how long this extra cut is going to be taken out for... It's all being left rather last minute if you ask me...
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