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Author Topic: SealsWithClubs.eu | Largest Bitcoin Poker Site | No Banking | Fast Cashouts  (Read 1360822 times)
darkmule
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June 23, 2013, 09:12:04 PM
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LOL rigtards.
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June 23, 2013, 09:24:37 PM
 #2062



LOL rigtards.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/13/science/13tier.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

I have a bitcoin address that anyone can send BTC too, so I'm going to post it
on my sig because I think someone is going to randomly give me their BTC:
1D37qouguK5rNh1mSZDocgVCvA2rxsAgLp Roll Eyes
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June 23, 2013, 10:28:08 PM
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Actually the idea that Puffpuffpass's article suggests is plausible, and this IS how businesses often work in today's world.

It is only anecdotal, but I regularly see more unlikeliness than is likely, so to speak.

What is troubling is the shout down and mockery by the group, instead of reasoned discussion. Groups are often this way, but this one, and what constitutes the chatroom in Seals, is especially so.  I'm not saying I don't like the site, I do, and would like it more if it were more reliable. But the ideas in the article above deserve some attention.
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June 24, 2013, 01:06:46 AM
 #2064

The Poker Action Flop Theory in Online NL Texas Holdem Tournaments

Poker Action Flop Theory: Hands are deliberately set up by an online Poker room to handicap the best players and benefit the bad players.

Texas Holdem tournaments on the internet attract literally thousands of players everyday to sites that offer every kind of tournament you can imagine. Freerolls with small, and sometimes very high, cash prizes, buyins from 10 cents to $1000.00, satellites to major land based tournaments, bounty tournaments, freeze outs, you name it, and you can find it. And everyone who plays online has some incredible bad beat stories - one out hands hitting on the river, etc, seemingly in much greater mathematical probability than seems possible.

This is where the "Action Flop" Theory comes in. Paul Phillips is credited with coining the phrase on the World Poker Tour. It defines an almost improbable hand result, where some great starting hands are played aggressively by skilled players that hit a flop nicely, but end up losing on the river to a vastly inferior hand. The classic bad beat suckout.

I have statistically tracked a number of sites as I play them. And on certain sites (to remain nameless, but catch me in a game sometime, and I might spill the beans) there is most definitely a higher proportion of Action Flops near the bubbles. But first, lets make a note here. Cards dealt on the online casinos are NOT randomly dealt. A true random deal is mathematically impossible. They can get close, but never truly statistically random. I am not saying any sites are rigged, but do please read on. It has already been established that some sites use different shuffles for free games and for cash games. These sites lead the free player to believe they are better than they are, hoping to encourage them to deposit and play for cash.

The theory behind action flops is quite simple. The Poker Action Flop is a flop that will encourage the good players to get very aggressive in a pot and then the new or bad player makes an unlikely river draw to suck out on the good player.

And this happens! A lot! In fact, a lot more than it should, statistically.

So why do all these bad beats happen? This is what the Poker Action Flop Theory explains.

The Poker Action Flop Theory is simply this: the online poker room wants the bad players to beat the good players. Not all the time, just at certain points in a tournament. Skilled experienced players know that bad beats happen, and they can accept them as part of the game. If they are winning overall in the site, they stay and just pick another tournament to enter.  But a new player or a bad player who doesn't win once in a while will stop playing there. Thus no more poker room deposit money from them. The online casinos want to spread the winning cash prizes around, so they create action flops to do this, according to the Action Flop Theory. They deliver great hands to the good players who then boost the pot, and the bad player sucks out on the river.

Skilled and experienced winning Texas Holdem players tend to be very aggressive. They make value bets,  forced calls against pot odds, high percentage semi bluffs, outright steals, and they slow play the fish right into the net.  Skilled players know how to make the most out of every hand they play. Bad players are basically calling stations and have little knowledge of proper betting techniques. So if an Action Flop comes along, the skilled player has a lot of chips in the pot, and loses them to the bad player suckout.

In the real world of Texas Holdem tournament play, new and bad players are easily beaten by superior players. Most of them don't stand a chance to win in a live multi table no limit holdem tournament. They are  dead money.  In land based casino poker room NL Texas Holdem tournaments, the skilled players get most of their chips from the bad players as they knock them out.

So why is it different online? Action Flops!

The Theory says that "ACTION FLOPS", those flops that bring big action to a hand and hurt the skilled players who are beaten by the river miracles. Online poker room owners know that in the general course of play, the highly skilled players would decimate the rest of the players. They need something to level the playing field or risk losing the majority of their players, and then the majority of their income.  The Action Flop theory says this is the way they do it, by having Action Flops during the course of play. The better skilled players are penalized by chip loses and the new or unskilled players are rewarded with chip gains, and thus are retained as customers.

The Action Flop Theory states that  Action Flops are the mainstay of the online poker room business model.

Action Flops let the winning players win far less than they would normally would.

Action Flops let bad players play longer and even win money on occasion.

Action Flops benefit bad players who continue calling on a draw against the aggressive skilled player.

Action flops keep the new or bad players on the site, and the poker room makes more money.

See below for an example of how the online poker rooms could use their Dynamic Dealing to Generate a Poker Action Flop without compromising in any way the integrity of their RNG card shuffle.

How can you avoid falling into the Poker Action Flop Trap?

Action flops will occur anytime in NL Texas Holdem tournament. Generally speaking, the first few rounds are free of Action Flops, since this is the most dangerous time for the player, and the time you usually see the most all in players. No need for them here, actually.

As the game progresses, there usually will come a group of Action Flops. Watch for this as you play, and be very careful if you see the start of pattern of Action Flops. As a skilled player, you probably have an idea of who are the other skilled players at your table, and who are the new or unskilled players. If you see the later start to suckout, watch out!  

And, as I mentioned earlier, as you near the bubble, expect these action flops! They may are there and they may come! Remember, the poker room wants the new players and the bad players who have survived so far to make the money bubble. And if you are a skilled player, they may not want you to make the bubble!

Your best tool is observation! Be very careful when on the button near the bubble. This is where the classic Poker Action Flop is set to give you that great hand to steal the blinds with, but may in fact be the hand that takes you out when the Big Blind sucks out in a Poker Action Flop!

Example: We have two players in a hand, a skilled player who has won a lot of money on the site, aggressively betting his AK hand,  and a newbie player, with no winnings at all on the site, holding AJ. The flop is A J, 3, turn is K. The skilled player goes all in on his AA KK, the top two pair. The newbie calls with his AA JJ. On the river the random card generator puts out a King to be dealt, which would give the skilled player a winning full house. The dynamic dealing program then would set aside  the Ace, not deal it, and then the program continues to set aside the randomly generated cards until a Jack appears, then deals it as the river card. The the less skilled newbie player then outdraws the skilled player to win on the river.

Even an audit of the random number generator will still validate the RNG because it is not compromised, it is the deal/distribution that is compromised.

Some players claim they have detected a slight delay in river dealing by the site software when these outdraws occur.

source: http://www.thedoverpro.com/poker-action-flop.htm
[/quote

I AM SO GLAD I READ AND REREAD THIS ENTIRE POST. I WORE MY TIN FOIL HAT DRAINED A LIVE CHICKEN HEAD BLOOD INTO A BOWL LIT CANDLES AND GOT 2ND IN BIG BTC TODAY TOOT TOOT 3D TIME PLAYING IT WAS THE CHARM GOT 13 AND 14 IN OTHER 2.
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June 24, 2013, 03:50:06 AM
 #2065

What is troubling is the shout down and mockery by the group, instead of reasoned discussion.

Reasoned discussion of what?  Like every rigtard, this assclown makes a wild-ass claim and presents zero evidence whatsoever for it.  Why should I waste time taking it seriously when obviously the whiny-ass cocksucker who made the claim didn't take it seriously enough to back it up?
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June 24, 2013, 06:14:18 AM
 #2066

The 50chip tourney was missing for a week. Then back for a few days. And now I don't see it again. What is up with that? Hope it will be back, I love that one. Thanks.

edit: every7, plo8 after10, seem also to be missing.

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June 24, 2013, 08:51:35 AM
 #2067

The 50chip tourney was missing for a week. Then back for a few days. And now I don't see it again. What is up with that? Hope it will be back, I love that one. Thanks.

edit: every7, plo8 after10, seem also to be missing.

We are redoing the schedule. The 50 chip at 7am was never supposed to return, that was a mistake. The games you mention are being removed also and some tweaks have been made to others so that we can keep them. The hourly 10 After games all all done, they weren't popular enough to be sustainable and seemed to hurt the microstakes SNG ecosystem.

New and substantially changed games:

Wed Big Ante 2000 guar - The ante is equal to the big blind. Three smaller rounds are added to the beginning of the tournament to make it last roughly as long as a normal game.

Big Prizes 100 - Every prize is at least 500 chips, enough to enter the tweaked 5pm which is now:

500 chip 4.20k guar - a 480+20 with 4200 chips guaranteed.

Sat Rebuy 12k guar - At the same time as the old Sat 10k, and with rebuys allowed.

Friday 15k guar - This was the Friday Swell which had been bouncing between 13k and 14k.

10 After NLHE 250 guar - Runs once a day at 8:10pm ET with a higher guar than when it ran many times per day.

10 After PLO 250 guar - Runs once a day at 9:10pm ET with a higher guar than when it ran many times per day.

Look for more additions in coming days.



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June 24, 2013, 08:53:46 AM
 #2068

And in the morning the 20 chip 600 guar changed to 25 chip 500 guar.

NLNiko, I saw you were the only one in it when the change was made and assumed you'd still want to play, I sent the 5 chip price difference to your account (silently, but it did go).

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June 24, 2013, 09:07:29 AM
 #2069

Hm well some of the new ones look nice I guess.

For me personally, this update is terrible. I live in Asia so I basically can only play between 9pm - 10am server time. Now I understand that midnight is less players / money. But there are always the regulars every night. I don't have a really big bankroll (yet good management) so I can only play 100 BI and less. Now with this update I think I can play half of the tourneys I played before Sad (like normally 6/7 a day, now 3/4)

Can't you just lower the GTD of 50chip / every7? I don't care if the 50chip is only 1k or 500 GTD. I just want to play some poker.

Other then that the people in chat seem to be also upset about the 10after.. but I never played that so I cannot say much about that.

I guess you are still adjusting and tweaking, good luck with that, just wanted to share my opinion.

NLNiko, I saw you were the only one in it when the change was made and assumed you'd still want to play, I sent the 5 chip price difference to your account (silently, but it did go).
Thank you for that.

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June 24, 2013, 09:11:57 AM
 #2070

Hm well some of the new ones look nice I guess.

For me personally, this update is terrible. I live in Asia so I basically can only play between 9pm - 10am server time. Now I understand that midnight is less players / money. But there are always the regulars every night. I don't have a really big bankroll (yet good management) so I can only play 100 BI and less. Now with this update I think I can play half of the tourneys I played before Sad

Can't you just lower the GTD of 50chip / every7? I don't care if the 50chip is only 1k or 500 GTD. I just want to play some poker.

Other then that the people in chat seem to be also upset about the 10after.. but I never played that so I cannot say much about that.

I guess you are still adjusting and tweaking, good luck with that, just wanted to share my opinion.

NLNiko, I saw you were the only one in it when the change was made and assumed you'd still want to play, I sent the 5 chip price difference to your account (silently, but it did go).
Thank you for that.

That's reasonable, we'll put the Every Seven back with a lower guar and note the guar in the title, not doing that has been a mistake.

Edit: The "Every Six 600 guar" with 38+2 buyin is now online. It will run 4 times per day at 5am, 11am, 5pm, and 11pm ET. We've realized that roaming games are harder for people to follow and we're only leaving the Roaming Rebuy like that (it goes every 9 hours).

Play Bitcoin Poker at sealswithclubs.eu. We're active and open to everyone.
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June 24, 2013, 09:31:47 AM
 #2071

Ok, sounds good for me. Thanks.

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June 24, 2013, 11:40:56 AM
 #2072

The tournament schedule really needs a major upgrade I have been waiting for 2 months while being told changes are coming and honestly have not seen any changes for the positive other then tourneys I enjoyed playing in like the seven am guaranteeds and the slow 2k guarantee which always met guarantees being taken down. All requests for changes in the tournaments seem to fall on deaf ears although I understand it is a work in progress I haven't seen any improvements to the tourney schedule in 2 months and have been waiting paitently. A good mtt schedule is important for any online site its time to make this a priority . Taking away the 10 afters was a big mistake they where really popular and saying it damaged sng eco system really not that valid as sngs rarely run and take forever to fill. For the microgrinders the 10 afters where great and allowed them to really test out the site , again a huge mistake to get rid of them I played a ton of them to get off tilt or refocus. I loved the plo8 and plo ones btw.

Dropping guaranteeds  amounts  like the plo8 guaranteed which I played daily and taking away tourneys with guaranteeds really isn't the way to improve a tournament schedule, there are a lot of avid mtt players , I hope you will reconsider and add some tournaments of value. I am more then disappointed with the tourney schedule that I have viewed today and I have put a lot of time and rakeback chips into tourneys provided so I hope you will consider my disappointment. I am pretty sure other players will not be jumping for joy either. Seals has a lot to offer, a good tournament schedule is the way to bring in new blood which the site and any online poker site needs to keep bringing in new players to be successful. People will be more likely to play  ring in addition to mtts then to play ring and have a barren mtt schedule.
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June 24, 2013, 12:45:45 PM
 #2073

The 50chip tourney was missing for a week. Then back for a few days. And now I don't see it again. What is up with that? Hope it will be back, I love that one. Thanks.

edit: every7, plo8 after10, seem also to be missing.

We are redoing the schedule. The 50 chip at 7am was never supposed to return, that was a mistake. The games you mention are being removed also and some tweaks have been made to others so that we can keep them. The hourly 10 After games all all done, they weren't popular enough to be sustainable and seemed to hurt the microstakes SNG ecosystem.

New and substantially changed games:

Wed Big Ante 2000 guar - The ante is equal to the big blind. Three smaller rounds are added to the beginning of the tournament to make it last roughly as long as a normal game.

Big Prizes 100 - Every prize is at least 500 chips, enough to enter the tweaked 5pm which is now:

500 chip 4.20k guar - a 480+20 with 4200 chips guaranteed.

Sat Rebuy 12k guar - At the same time as the old Sat 10k, and with rebuys allowed.

Friday 15k guar - This was the Friday Swell which had been bouncing between 13k and 14k.

10 After NLHE 250 guar - Runs once a day at 8:10pm ET with a higher guar than when it ran many times per day.

10 After PLO 250 guar - Runs once a day at 9:10pm ET with a higher guar than when it ran many times per day.

Look for more additions in coming days.





The biggest complaint I have and others are voicing is the 10after tournaments being cancelled.   I don't understand.  You say they weren't popular?? They seemed to be to me.  I have to ask, based on the changes that I see, are you trying to cater more to high rollers? You are chasing away many with small bankrolls now.  There used to be a 2 chip tournament once a day when I started also.  The 10afters gave people so much more opportunity to play in MTTs.  Personally, I don't play in any MTTs with buyin > 100 chips.  That's my max. 

Deeply disappointed..... 
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June 24, 2013, 01:22:39 PM
 #2074

The schedule is still in flux and really always will be.

We can offer essentially unlimited self-sustaining tournaments, but we can only subsidize a limited number. There is an art to figuring out what these will be, we don't want to cancel them too fast, we also want to move on and try other games, we're trying to find the right balance.

Over a sample of 1000+ games we had to consistently pay people to play in the 10 Afters. At the same time, 10 chip SNGs ran much less often than previously, we assume because enough people started playing the 10 Afters instead which made the 10 chip SNGs not quite fill.

Offering 24 "MTTs" that only got 1-2 tables often even with large negative effective rake isn't as good as trying to build a few daily that are more like actual MTTs and let SNGs take the demand for smaller games. It may take some time for action to return to them, but we'll try to speed that along by adding rewards as soon as we can.

There will be new MTTs in the 10 to 100 range coming soon. If we do many at once we worry that all will fail.

Play Bitcoin Poker at sealswithclubs.eu. We're active and open to everyone.
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June 24, 2013, 02:55:43 PM
 #2075

The Poker Action Flop Theory in Online NL Texas Holdem Tournaments
Collect and present some data!!
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June 24, 2013, 04:11:19 PM
 #2076

What is troubling is the shout down and mockery by the group, instead of reasoned discussion.

Reasoned discussion of what?  Like every rigtard, this assclown makes a wild-ass claim and presents zero evidence whatsoever for it.  Why should I waste time taking it seriously when obviously the whiny-ass cocksucker who made the claim didn't take it seriously enough to back it up?

Well, all that name calling sure builds YOUR cred. 

It wasn't his article, he was sharing someone else's thoughts, which are clearly more articulate than what I am seeing coming from yourself.

Again, many people have noticed that unlikely events seem to happen more more often than they should.  It would be very difficult and time consuming for a regular consumer to amass enough evidence to prove anything.  Probably the best way to find out would be, if you know how to read software, talk to the sellers and ask what they have to offer... buy their best package and go have a look.
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June 24, 2013, 04:36:45 PM
 #2077

The schedule is still in flux and really always will be.

We can offer essentially unlimited self-sustaining tournaments, but we can only subsidize a limited number. There is an art to figuring out what these will be, we don't want to cancel them too fast, we also want to move on and try other games, we're trying to find the right balance.

Over a sample of 1000+ games we had to consistently pay people to play in the 10 Afters. At the same time, 10 chip SNGs ran much less often than previously, we assume because enough people started playing the 10 Afters instead which made the 10 chip SNGs not quite fill.

Offering 24 "MTTs" that only got 1-2 tables often even with large negative effective rake isn't as good as trying to build a few daily that are more like actual MTTs and let SNGs take the demand for smaller games. It may take some time for action to return to them, but we'll try to speed that along by adding rewards as soon as we can.

There will be new MTTs in the 10 to 100 range coming soon. If we do many at once we worry that all will fail.

the 10 afters were really popular and were feeders to bigger tournaments and people would play ring games if won money. The site is catering exclusively to high rollers as was said before while people with moderate bankrolls are being priced out. There are a lot more members that fall into the moderate bankroll catagory then the high roller one and  leaving them out of the loop is a big mistake imo .Your paying 50 every hour to freeloaders so they can try out the site while excluding people who play in ring  and are mainstays of the 10 points which really isn't a good business model or makes sense imo.

there are a lot of people who enjoy playing the 10 after plo and plo8 to take away plo is limiting game choices obviously sometimes you have to take a loss to make a profit. Very disappointing changes indeed.

The every seven with 40 chip buy in had 30 plus runners every time I played them while the seven ams had an avg of 25. Weees 100 point deepstacks get 25 to 30 people. All the people on the site or majority are all playing the horly freeroll. You need to grow the tourneys you have not take them away imo.
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June 24, 2013, 06:17:23 PM
 #2078

Again, many people have noticed that unlikely events seem to happen more more often than they should.  It would be very difficult and time consuming for a regular consumer to amass enough evidence to prove anything.  Probably the best way to find out would be, if you know how to read software, talk to the sellers and ask what they have to offer... buy their best package and go have a look.

For literally decades, I have seen rigtard after rigtard make the same tired claims, never ever present anything resembling data, and you think that every time some new goddamn rigtard shows up I should bother with reasoned arguments when they don't?  Why?  They're deserving of nothing but ridicule.  If you want to waste your time, knock yourself out.  I'll stick to pointing out that here's yet another boring-ass rigtard doing the same rigtard things every other one has done, and I'll laugh at them.
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June 25, 2013, 01:34:14 AM
 #2079

The Poker Action Flop Theory in Online NL Texas Holdem Tournaments
Collect and present some data!!

If he had data he wouldn't need to write a 1000+ word post.
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June 25, 2013, 01:28:02 PM
 #2080

1)  I return to WSOP action today for the $1500 ante only at high noon Vegas time wearing full SealsWithClubs regalia.

2)  I'm not quite sure how to spell regalia, and it's that odd time when I've slept for about 6 hours and am definitely going to stare at my daughter for 5 minutes then pass out again for another 3ball, so I'm not going to.  Somehow that was easier.

3) Thanks for playing SwC.  This summer has been really fun meeting a handful of you guys and handing out some SwC gear.  I have more, just holler at me at the Rio.  I want to give it to you badly, please come up and ask.  I post my seat # on my twitter account.

4) There will be major site improvements happening in the next few months.  There are issues that we know about and thanks for sending all of your feedback - keep sending it - and we promise there will be a very fast feature-building period once our initial server side improvements are complete.  Please continue to support us during this time & we will continue to offer you solid customer support, fast cashouts, and tons of active cash games & tourneys.  On the back side of this, we will continue to build awesome features until we run out of ideas, which doesn't rate to be very soon.  PvP gambling-chess where you spin for pieces & interactive backgammon wagering can mark signal the end of the initial feature run. 

We have big plans.  Stick with us. 

Chairman SwCPoker.eu Bitcoin Poker 2.0 |  Pro Poker Player  |  blog & podcas DonkDown.com | @BryanMicon | 2015- PGP Key
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