PB Mining -- 5 year mining contracts!

[Giftcoins]

Does anyone find it weird that price is stuck at 0.0029 for some time now and that they are increasing min order too often. It was 10 month ago, then like 10 days ago 15 and now it's 25ghs. This means you have to buy more and in return you get longer return time then people that came in before you ie. you will brake even in 200+ days if ever.

To me this is a sign that they need more money to feed the old contracts so everything doesn't collapse soon

Same as ponzi, when they are done they keep promising higher and higher returns just to lure those few that still did not invest

It's also funny thing about how they sell their hardware on ebay, that was all junk and they could not mine shit with it even if they put it to use, we are talking about 1.7Ph/s now, does anyone even have idea ho much this is in actual warehouse space, how complicated it is to setup this. If they have this they would be proud at it and forum would be full of impressive photos of their mining gear and setup.
1700th/s is around 4000 Antminers s3, doubt they even produced that much and they are the best what money can get now and still power supply is missing on it.

I just wish good luck to ones that bought contracts, hope I'm wrong and that all will turn out OK for everyone

[1714290944]

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[1714290944]

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[Netwerked]

I'm not here to defend PBMining from scam bashing, etc., I'm just to tell what I know.

The admin of PBMining before launching PBMining itself was selling bitcoin mining hardware on ebay. You can find his profile link and check it out yourself. So, we can assume that he (admin) has his hands on the mining hardware, and is able to get it.

So, next, do not say that the mining hashrate is added instantly after the purchase; you have to wait for it to be assigned. I personally have faced numerous times with a message saying there are non free for now. So that kind of points out that they buy hardware.

Lastly, the big question about fees. I do believe they take fee, and I know exactly how much. There was one time they accidentaly uploaded core php files (probably moving something) for few seconds, and I kind of got to see it. They do not post it anywhere, but I believe there is a 3% fee and if you do the math correct - its enough to cover utility bills and pre-order hardware.

So far, I've been receiving payments every week with no issues, and I'm there since the beginning.

lol your calculations are wrong, because there is no FEEs...

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty  

according to calculator, 1000 ghs mines 0.001062 btc every hour with no fees..

goto global stats, take one 1000 ghs valued account, note the btc mined, then after exactly an hour note the btc mined again, substact them , you will see the result 0.001062 btc ..

so you are not defending with that 3% fee statement, you are offending.. and i prefer this site, because of no fee policy..

Not true at all. If you compare our payouts from the last few weeks to calculator estimations, you will find that our pay every week is always less than estimations. A cut is taken there.

lol it is because the diff jump happens in middle of the week,  not the fee..


i think pbmining admin put an end to that discussion.. hey pbmining admin, is there any fee , in mined blocks ?

I think the admin posted that all fees are built in to the price of a contract.  No fees are deducted from weekly mining income.  This makes pbmining really attractive.

I do the math on my weekly payouts, and what I receive is always very accurate (no fees deducted).  For those who do not know how to calculate the expected payout, I'll show a couple of examples.

To figure out how much income to expect, I always go to https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty and use the calculator.

Calculating this morning's payout was relatively easy, since the difficulty was the same the entire week.  I type 1 in the GH/s field, and it shows a weekly payout of 0.0001784.  Multiply that by the number of GH/s you have, and that should be what you received for the week (assuming your contract was active the entire week).  If we have a 1TH contract, then we should have received roughly 0.1784BTC this morning.

We will have a difficulty increase this week, so there is a little more math involved.  There are 168 hours in a week.  According to bitcoinwisdom.com, the difficulty increases in 2.5 days (or 60 hours).  It is now 10PM EDT, so 21 hours have elapsed since payday.  We mine at the rate of 0.0001784BTC for 81 hours.  We mine at the new rate for 87 hours.  We need to calculate the new rate.

Current difficulty is 19729645940.  Difficulty is expected to increase 16.2% according to current guesstimates.  This makes the new difficulty 22925848582.  Using the Bitcoinwisdom calculator, plug in the new difficulty, and it shows we can expect 0.0001536BTC per GH per week.

0.0001784 * (81/168)  +  0.0001536 * (87/168) = 0.00008601 + 0.00007954 = 0.00016556BTC per GH

In other words, if you have a 1TH contract, you should have received 0.1784BTC this morning and may receive 0.1656BTC on August 24 and 0.1536BTC on August 31st.

[chicken65]

Just wanted to say Ive been very happy with PB mining.

Keep up the good work PB!  

Edit:
Even if it is a Ponzi - I'm currently getting paid. Once I break even
I start to make a little profit...

[chicken65]

Does anyone find it weird that price is stuck at 0.0029 for some time now and that they are increasing min order too often. It was 10 month ago, then like 10 days ago 15 and now it's 25ghs. This means you have to buy more and in return you get longer return time then people that came in before you ie. you will brake even in 200+ days if ever.

To me this is a sign that they need more money to feed the old contracts so everything doesn't collapse soon

Same as ponzi, when they are done they keep promising higher and higher returns just to lure those few that still did not invest

It's also funny thing about how they sell their hardware on ebay, that was all junk and they could not mine shit with it even if they put it to use, we are talking about 1.7Ph/s now, does anyone even have idea ho much this is in actual warehouse space, how complicated it is to setup this. If they have this they would be proud at it and forum would be full of impressive photos of their mining gear and setup.
1700th/s is around 4000 Antminers s3, doubt they even produced that much and they are the best what money can get now and still power supply is missing on it.

I just wish good luck to ones that bought contracts, hope I'm wrong and that all will turn out OK for everyone

Well, I dont know for sure. All I can say is that it wont be long before I break even.

Not naming any specific names - but one cloud mining op in particular is not only a Ponzi, its controlled by a handful
of shysters in cahoots where they prey in the unsuspecting and they will always, without fail lose
their BTC. Its really quite disgusting to watch. The same guys talking in little codes,laughing at inexperienced people they capture
in the live chat. 

[Netwerked]

Does anyone find it weird that price is stuck at 0.0029 for some time now...

The admin warned us a while back that the price would be at 0.0029 for a while.  I think it dropped from 0.0030 late on July 25th.  We have only had a 5.3% difficulty increase since that time.  Perhaps the price will drop to 0.0028 on Tuesday afternoon, when the difficulty increases 16%.
[/quote]

...they are increasing min order too often. It was 10 month ago, then like 10 days ago 15 and now it's 25ghs.

I think they increased the minimum contract to 15GH/s just before the end of July.  It makes sense.  There is a certain amount of labor and customer service involved to set up a new contract, and there is very little profit in contracts smaller than 15GH/s.  In addition, 15GH/s will pay out very little in a year, and it won't be enough to sustain a weekly payout before the end of 2016.  Customers purchasing an amount that small might be disappointed when they receive their payout every 2, 3, or 4 weeks instead of weekly.  I think the minimum payment allowed to be sent via the BTC network is 0.00000053BTC.  Are you complaining that $22 is too much money to invest at once?

This means you have to buy more and in return you get longer return time then people that came in before you ie. you will brake even in 200+ days if ever.

The size of your contract has nothing to do with your break-even date, however, if you pay the same amount of BTC for a contract that begins at a higher difficulty, that will lengthen your break-even timeframe.  I posted a while back that paying 0.016BTC per GH/s in January was a more attractive proposition than paying 0.0029BTC per GH/s now, assuming that difficulty continues to increase an average of 16.15% each period.
[/quote]

To me this is a sign that they need more money to feed the old contracts so everything doesn't collapse soon

Same as ponzi, when they are done they keep promising higher and higher returns just to lure those few that still did not invest

I'm assuming that when one pays for a new mining contract, X% goes to pay for new equipment, Y% is set aside for future operating costs, and Z% is set aside for profit.  There are a few possibilities why the contract price may not have fallen much recently.  1) Since June 29th, difficulty has not increased much.  2) They decrease the price to remain competitive, however, they are almost the best current deal around. 3) They have significantly optimized costs, such as hardware and electricity, but there might not be much more room to decrease costs until the next generation of mining equipment is available.

It's also funny thing about how they sell their hardware on ebay, that was all junk and they could not mine shit with it even if they put it to use

There are two Bitcoin mining equipment markets on eBay.  1) New equipment sold at a higher price that might mine enough Bitcoin to almost break even.  2) Used equipment sold at a lower price that is targeted towards newbies that want to have a toy.

I'm not aware of pbmining selling anything on eBay at the moment, but buyers should do their research before buying.  One man's junk is another man's treasure.

we are talking about 1.7Ph/s now, does anyone even have idea ho much this is in actual warehouse space, how complicated it is to setup this. If they have this they would be proud at it and forum would be full of impressive photos of their mining gear and setup.
1700th/s is around 4000 Antminers s3, doubt they even produced that much and they are the best what money can get now and still power supply is missing on it.

Yes, it's a lot of equipment.  Again, we don't know pbmining's business model.  My gut feeling tells me that other businesses manage (and possibly own) most of the mining equipment.

[jimmothy]

Does anyone find it weird that price is stuck at 0.0029 for some time now...

The admin warned us a while back that the price would be at 0.0029 for a while.  I think it dropped from 0.0030 late on July 25th.  We have only had a 5.3% difficulty increase since that time.  Perhaps the price will drop to 0.0028 on Tuesday afternoon, when the difficulty increases 16%.

You don't find it remotely suspicious that the admin can predict the cost of hardware in the future?

Of course the price will drop when difficulty drops, but only if it's a ponzi and not using actual hardware. If they used real hardware, we would have seen a steady price decrease in the past 3 months similar to how the price of hardware dropped. But pbmining is oblivious to hardware pricing because they don't use hardware, they just look at the difficulty like a ponzi would.

If they are not a ponzi then the equation for pricing should be something like: hardware + electricity + hosting = pbmining price

If they are a ponzi then their pricing equation is something like: daily mined btc per GH * 100 days = pbmining price.

To me this is a sign that they need more money to feed the old contracts so everything doesn't collapse soon

Same as ponzi, when they are done they keep promising higher and higher returns just to lure those few that still did not invest

I'm assuming that when one pays for a new mining contract, X% goes to pay for new equipment, Y% is set aside for future operating costs, and Z% is set aside for profit.  There are a few possibilities why the contract price may not have fallen much recently.  1) Since June 29th, difficulty has not increased much.  2) They decrease the price to remain competitive, however, they are almost the best current deal around. 3) They have significantly optimized costs, such as hardware and electricity, but there might not be much more room to decrease costs until the next generation of mining equipment is available.

How do you propose they set aside X, Y, and Z, when they were charging $2/gh at the same time bitmain S1's were $2/gh? (cheapest hardware at the time)

I assume you will assume they have some sort of super special deal with a manufacturer to buy hardware at half the price the rest of us pay. Firstly, that would be a very strange contract that will allow them to buy very small/irregular quantities at a time. Secondly, they can tell us who they are buying this massive amount of hardware from and we can verify it. But they won't because they have no intention of proving they are not a ponzi.

The owner reads this thread often and knows about the pages and pages of ponzi accusations but instead of taking 2 seconds to prove they are legit, he blows a few hundred btc on every type of advertising instead. Totally not like every ponzi which needs to keep recruiting new investonomers in order to perpetuate the scheme.

It's also funny thing about how they sell their hardware on ebay, that was all junk and they could not mine shit with it even if they put it to use

There are two Bitcoin mining equipment markets on eBay.  1) New equipment sold at a higher price that might mine enough Bitcoin to almost break even.  2) Used equipment sold at a lower price that is targeted towards newbies that want to have a toy.

I'm not aware of pbmining selling anything on eBay at the moment, but buyers should do their research before buying.  One man's junk is another man's treasure.

Why do they only sell weak usb miners and 5 year contracts? If they can buy hardware at half the price everyone else pays, why aren't they selling it? Red flag #226

we are talking about 1.7Ph/s now, does anyone even have idea ho much this is in actual warehouse space, how complicated it is to setup this. If they have this they would be proud at it and forum would be full of impressive photos of their mining gear and setup.
1700th/s is around 4000 Antminers s3, doubt they even produced that much and they are the best what money can get now and still power supply is missing on it.

Yes, it's a lot of equipment.  Again, we don't know pbmining's business model.  My gut feeling tells me that other businesses manage (and possibly own) most of the mining equipment.

Yes we do know pbminings business model. It's the same thing you will find here, but the BDD doesn't pretend to be mining and are very open about the financing. PBmining on the other hand will just disappear one day like it's sister scam lunamine.

PS: if anyone want's to pay me money to slowly give half of that money back before I disappear, I'm open to negotiations.

[lanshop2010]

Does anyone find it weird that price is stuck at 0.0029 for some time now and that they are increasing min order too often. It was 10 month ago, then like 10 days ago 15 and now it's 25ghs. This means you have to buy more and in return you get longer return time then people that came in before you ie. you will brake even in 200+ days if ever.

To me this is a sign that they need more money to feed the old contracts so everything doesn't collapse soon

Same as ponzi, when they are done they keep promising higher and higher returns just to lure those few that still did not invest

It's also funny thing about how they sell their hardware on ebay, that was all junk and they could not mine shit with it even if they put it to use, we are talking about 1.7Ph/s now, does anyone even have idea ho much this is in actual warehouse space, how complicated it is to setup this. If they have this they would be proud at it and forum would be full of impressive photos of their mining gear and setup.
1700th/s is around 4000 Antminers s3, doubt they even produced that much and they are the best what money can get now and still power supply is missing on it.

I just wish good luck to ones that bought contracts, hope I'm wrong and that all will turn out OK for everyone

If they bought hash power from bitfury as one poster mentioned, then 1.7 Ph/s is possible? If that's the case, then adding hash power fast is not a problem, there will be few servers to maintain. If they indeed bought or rented hash power, of course they won't say it publicly. If they did, every other businessman will do the same and availability of that hash power from bitfury may dwindle quite fast.

[Netwerked]

I think we're starting to talk in circles.  I'm not saying pbmining is legit or ponzi.  Nobody knows the answer for sure, we can only speculate.  I am going under the assumption that they have a legitimate business model.  The admin has a formula that he uses to calculate the price of a contract.  He knows the formula, and we can only speculate.  The price drop when difficulty increases doesn't necessarily mean that hardware has gotten cheaper.  Most likely, it is because difficulty has increased and profit margin must decrease in order to remain competitive.

I'm assuming that they have a super good deal with a mining equipment manufacturing company.  The average person must pay $2/GH for equipment alone these days, but that's retail.  Typically wholesale is 50% of retail, and pbmining could be buying or leasing the equipment wholesale due to large volume pricing.  Maybe they have an exclusive agreement for the arrangement.  Businesses don't want to divulge details on how they get a good price, because that's a trade secret.  The next time you buy something new for a low price on eBay, just ask the seller who their supplier is or what their profit margin is, and see if they'll tell you.

Is this a risky investment?  Yes, so don't put all of your money into it.  Has pbmining been a better investment than Lunamine, CEX, or PETA so far?  Yes.  Are you convinced it is a ponzi?  If so, don't invest.  Will you absolutely need the money that you invest with pbmining in the future?  If so, don't invest.  Do you need to fully understand the business model?  If so, don't invest.  Do you think they will run off with your money and disappear?  If so, don't invest.

[jimmothy]

I think we're starting to talk in circles.  I'm not saying pbmining is legit or ponzi.  Nobody knows the answer for sure, we can only speculate.  I am going under the assumption that they have a legitimate business model. 

This is real world thinking not bitcoin world thinking. In the bitcoin world you are guilty until proven innocent. Due to the scammy/irreversable/untracable nature of bitcoin you don't have the luxury of throwing up a website in an afternoon and expecting everything to be taken at face value.

The admin has a formula that he uses to calculate the price of a contract.  He knows the formula, and we can only speculate.  The price drop when difficulty increases doesn't necessarily mean that hardware has gotten cheaper.  Most likely, it is because difficulty has increased and profit margin must decrease in order to remain competitive.

Not sure what you mean exactly. The price should not drop when there are huge difficulty increases, only when the price of hardware drops. If it's difficulty dependent, it's a ponzi.

I'm assuming that they have a super good deal with a mining equipment manufacturing company.

Which company? He could let us know which manufacturer they buy from in one sentence (maybe even one word) and we could easily verify it with the company.

The average person must pay $2/GH for equipment alone these days, but that's retail.

From where? Butterflylabs? These days everyone is paying ~$0.6-$0.9/gh but pbmining doesn't reflect the huge drop in HW prices in the past few months of low difficulty increases.

Typically wholesale is 50% of retail, and pbmining could be buying or leasing the equipment wholesale due to large volume pricing.

Petamine, a real mining operation, recently bought 1PH worth of hardware from bitfury and hosts it in their 20PH farm. They paid $1.8/gh + $0.07/kwh at the same time pbmining was charging $2/gh+free electricity. Do you really think pbmining can buy 5-50TH at a time for half the price real bulk buyers pay?

Maybe they have an exclusive agreement for the arrangement.  Businesses don't want to divulge details on how they get a good price, because that's a trade secret.  The next time you buy something new for a low price on eBay, just ask the seller who their supplier is or what their profit margin is, and see if they'll tell you.

PBmining is not only getting a good price, they are getting the absolute best price while not buying in bulk. I would love to know this trade secret but I am sure they will tell me that after they tell me how their free electricity generator works.

[MrPiggles]

Occam's Razor: All things being equal the simplest explanation is the most likely. If I make more assumptions this compounds my chance of being wrong.

[Didldak]

PBmining is not only getting a good price, they are getting the absolute best price while not buying in bulk. I would love to know this trade secret but I am sure they will tell me that after they tell me how their free electricity generator works.

They collect energy from active volcano in their basement

[5ick3uffalo]

PBmining is not only getting a good price, they are getting the absolute best price while not buying in bulk. I would love to know this trade secret but I am sure they will tell me that after they tell me how their free electricity generator works.

They collect energy from active volcano in their basement

Not have to. in washington near the river (forgot his name) there is dirt cheap electric (0.02-0.03$ per kwh)
Some mining there, why not a big data center also. You can even send your miner there but it´s more than 0.03$ then

Not everyone is paying 0.15$ (US) or 0.25€ (Europe) per Kw/h. There are some places in the world where electric is cheap.
Egypt etc , there are a lot of options also making self with water weels.
I don`t know, not my business thats why i choosed PB mining. i think they can do better than me.


Not everyone is a scammer and bad who offer good service , and i warned you many times about LunaMining. I even posted some screenshots from google street view in this thread.

Opposite was sexy dessous shop for woman and next was a bank i remember , LOL that had "Scam" written all over it. Can not understand some bought there.

[testerman]

i am speculating the new ghs price of pbmining

i am expecting it 0.00234 btc/ghs

any other guesses?

[PilotofBTC]

What happened to timetobit. Did they turn out to be a ponzi?

[omnik]

i am speculating the new ghs price of pbmining

i am expecting it 0.00234 btc/ghs

any other guesses?

New price is 0.0027.

[PilotofBTC]

Wow! A 21% difficulty increase.

[Netwerked]

I think we're starting to talk in circles.  I'm not saying pbmining is legit or ponzi.  Nobody knows the answer for sure, we can only speculate.  I am going under the assumption that they have a legitimate business model. 

This is real world thinking not bitcoin world thinking. In the bitcoin world you are guilty until proven innocent. Due to the scammy/irreversable/untracable nature of bitcoin you don't have the luxury of throwing up a website in an afternoon and expecting everything to be taken at face value.

That's a good point.

The admin has a formula that he uses to calculate the price of a contract.  He knows the formula, and we can only speculate.  The price drop when difficulty increases doesn't necessarily mean that hardware has gotten cheaper.  Most likely, it is because difficulty has increased and profit margin must decrease in order to remain competitive.

Not sure what you mean exactly. The price should not drop when there are huge difficulty increases, only when the price of hardware drops. If it's difficulty dependent, it's a ponzi.

It makes sense for the price to drop when the difficulty increases.  If the price does not drop, then a new investor would be less likely to consider a purchase, since the odds of breaking even drop.  Yes, if it is operating as a ponzi, the price has to drop to keep money coming in, so that the operation does not collapse.  If it is operating legitimately, then it's a good business decision to lower prices upon difficulty increases, as long as the cost of a contract covers all current and future anticipated costs.

I'm assuming that they have a super good deal with a mining equipment manufacturing company.

Which company? He could let us know which manufacturer they buy from in one sentence (maybe even one word) and we could easily verify it with the company.

It may not be a well known company, or it could be custom made equipment.  It's a trade secret.  Sure, I would like to know, but doing business with pbmining requires us to leave things to our imagination.

The average person must pay $2/GH for equipment alone these days, but that's retail.

From where? Butterflylabs? These days everyone is paying ~$0.6-$0.9/gh but pbmining doesn't reflect the huge drop in HW prices in the past few months of low difficulty increases.

LOL Butterfly Labs?  Are they even shipping anything currently?  Oh, looks like they have a used 200GH/s miner for $399.

Actually, I was looking at https://tradeblock.com/mining/ and the $/GH column.  The cheapest equipment there shows $2/GH.  After doing the math on the column, it doesn't look accurate, and the prices haven't really changed in a couple of months.  On eBay, it looks more like 60-90 cents per GH.

In any case, I'm glad to see that equipment prices have come down.  If pbmining can buy equipment today for 60 cents/GH, and they're charging about $1.23/GH now (0.0026BTC * 475USD), and each GH is about 0.5 watts or 4.4kW/year (let's say 44 cents a year if it is 10 cents/kW), then they are charging enough to cover their costs for the first year with 19 cents left over.  If Bitcoin gets back up to 600USD, then they'll have 52 cents left over.  After the first year, the cost of maintaining 1 GH/s becomes negligible if technology continues to improve and/or the value of Bitcoin increases.  I think the company is speculating that Bitcoin will increase in value and that technology will get cheaper, however, if that doesn't materialize, the company could fold.

You're also correct that the cost per GH on new contracts has not fallen fast enough to keep up with difficulty increases.  A contract that I bought at the end of July might only give me back 85% of my money if difficulty continues to increase at an average of 16%.  If it is indeed a ponzi, then that would be good news / profitable for them.

Typically wholesale is 50% of retail, and pbmining could be buying or leasing the equipment wholesale due to large volume pricing.

Petamine, a real mining operation, recently bought 1PH worth of hardware from bitfury and hosts it in their 20PH farm. They paid $1.8/gh + $0.07/kwh at the same time pbmining was charging $2/gh+free electricity. Do you really think pbmining can buy 5-50TH at a time for half the price real bulk buyers pay?

Pbmining charged us for electricity.  We paid for it up front, so it isn't free.  I'm sure pbmining positioned themselves as a long-term customer of a supplier.  Petamine may have just negotiated a single purchase at a slight discount.  I'm not sure what to think about Petamine.  They charged high maintenance fees, the dividends suffered, and the stock price fell way too fast.  I think someone mining at home could have probably done better than Petamine.

[VJain]

Checking up, any bugs on the app? Haven't had time to do much work on it unfortunately

Android - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.coniform.pbmin

[bossko1]

maybe they are not ponzi...they out of GHS

"Our hash power is currently sold out. "

[TeraBox]

maybe they are not ponzi...they out of GHS

"Our hash power is currently sold out. "

I'm sure they will add at least 500TH/s in a day or two so I would not worry about it. They are known for adding GH/s like it's child's play