PB Mining -- 5 year mining contracts!

[maxl]

But I think they won´t keep the same hardware for all 5 years. The next hardware generations surely are more efficient.

[1714984110]

1714984110

[1714984110]

1714984110

[Collider]

I don´t want to burst any bubbles here, but Washington state offers under 4ct/kWh for datacenters.

Also, in one month the sp30 will be released with a power consumption of under 0.5W/GH.

It isn´t too much of a speculation if we assume that by end of next year alone, we would be at 0.25W/GH equipment (e.g on 16nm).

[PilotofBTC]

Currently ASIC hardware efficiency is around 1w per GH/s, things like Terraminers much worse anyway so anyway 1w per GH/s... 1000GH/s = 1TH/s at PB's current price around $2000 ($2 per GH/s)...

1w per GH/s for how long?

If it is 1w per GH/s and 1w is .001 kwh at .10 = .0001 per GH/s in electricity costs?

1000GH/s = 1000w x 87600hours (10years) = 87600 kwh x .10 = $876 / 1000 = .876cents per GH/s for electricity.

Also, cloudhashing is going to be selling contracts at $1.99 per GH/s starting aug 1. Are you saying that doesn't even cover the electricity for the year of the contract?

1w per GH/s for how long? Doesn't make sense as a reply question... we know how long it's supposed to be 5 year contracts, why are you talking about 10years ?

1w per GH/s is the efficiency of the hardware, 1w of electricity per GH/s...

Sooooo 1000GH/s uses 1000w (1Kw)... 1TH/s would use 1KW  

1Kw at $0.10 per Kwh (Washington price) run for 5 years is over $4000 FACT.

FOR ELECTRICITY ALONE. There is no such thing as free data centers and hardware to go along with that.

It should be called PB mysterious payouts not 'mining' because they are not. Maths is quite well respected it's running the computer your reading this on and it clearly proves the utter impossibility to mine for 5 years with no further fees at $2 per GH/s.

This assumes your per GH/s wattage is correct. I have no idea about that.

I also know that Cloudhasing is going to start charging the same price. $1.99 per GH/s. Granted it is for 1 year, but still from your info not enough to pay the electricity. Are you saying they aren't mining either?

Of course, there are places with cheaper electric in the world than the US. For example, in Kuait electricty is about .01cent per Kwh. In egypt it's pretty cheap too.

[Group Bitcoin]

I don´t want to burst any bubbles here, but Washington state offers under 4ct/kWh for datacenters.

Also, in one month the sp30 will be released with a power consumption of under 0.5W/GH.

It isn´t too much of a speculation if we assume that by end of next year alone, we would be at 0.25W/GH equipment (e.g on 16nm).

Lets say they have SP30's now which they don't.

0.5w/GH is well over $2000 to run it for 5 years in Electricity alone ?

Hardware is not free. A giant 800TH/s data center isn't free either more like a few million.

Maybe they found an empty one for free and got squatters rights and they left the electricity on by mistake a few MW's

[byt411]

But I think they won´t keep the same hardware for all 5 years. The next hardware generations surely are more efficient.

Well of course, and they will be more expensive too. PBMining adds new hardware periodically, and the new stuff they buy should be new and efficient.

I don´t want to burst any bubbles here, but Washington state offers under 4ct/kWh for datacenters.

Also, in one month the sp30 will be released with a power consumption of under 0.5W/GH.

It isn´t too much of a speculation if we assume that by end of next year alone, we would be at 0.25W/GH equipment (e.g on 16nm).

Yeah, but as I said before, hardware costs will be higher, so all that will do is make the price for cloud mining go a bit lower.
PBMining is still cheaper than cex.io.

[Group Bitcoin]

I understand people will defend their investment.

But any logical mind capable rational thought and basic math can quickly deduce the fact selling a GH/s on 26/06/14 for $2 to mine for 5 years with no further running costs is utterly impossible.

[tprogex]

I understand people will defend their investment.

But any logical mind capable rational thought and basic math can quickly deduce the fact selling a GH/s on 26/06/14 for $2 to mine for 5 years with no further running costs is utterly impossible.

I don't know pb runs or not but it's really possible.At least they can pay by 5 year contracts and also make profit.You look only one corner but its also 3 other corners.I'm geting hardware from china less than 2 usd per ghs(1.45 usd) and mine nearly same btc as they pay so for Me if I start do same and people  buy it I can do huge profits and pay whem also with terms of contract.
and if I order like pb I can get even cheaper.

[Group Bitcoin]

I understand people will defend their investment.

But any logical mind capable rational thought and basic math can quickly deduce the fact selling a GH/s on 26/06/14 for $2 to mine for 5 years with no further running costs is utterly impossible.

I don't know pb runs or not but it's really possible.At least they can pay by 5 year contracts and also make profit.You look only one corner but its also 3 other corners.I'm geting hardware from china less than 2 usd per ghs(1.45 usd) and mine nearly same btc as they pay so for Me if I start do same and people  buy it I can do huge profits and pay whem also with terms of contract.
and if I order like pb I can get even cheaper.

Your hardware from china uses around 1w per GH/s right ? Lets say 0.5w it doesn't but lets just imagine it does.

0.5w run for 5 years is over $2 in Washington state one of the cheapest areas in the world.

Over $2 for ELECTRICITY alone at 0.5w per GH/s efficiency.

They charge $2 per GH/s. This is not mathematically possible to run that GH/s for 5 years with no further costs even with free hardware. Please don't just reply without thinking actually read what I'm saying, it makes prefect sense.

[jonsi]

I understand people will defend their investment.

But any logical mind capable rational thought and basic math can quickly deduce the fact selling a GH/s on 26/06/14 for $2 to mine for 5 years with no further running costs is utterly impossible.

I don't know pb runs or not but it's really possible.At least they can pay by 5 year contracts and also make profit.You look only one corner but its also 3 other corners.I'm geting hardware from china less than 2 usd per ghs(1.45 usd) and mine nearly same btc as they pay so for Me if I start do same and people  buy it I can do huge profits and pay whem also with terms of contract.
and if I order like pb I can get even cheaper.

Your hardware from china uses around 1w per GH/s right ? Lets say 0.5w it doesn't but lets just imagine it does.

0.5w run for 5 years is over $2 in Washington state one of the cheapest areas in the world.

Over $2 for ELECTRICITY alone at 0.5w per GH/s efficiency.

They charge $2 per GH/s. This is not mathematically possible to run that GH/s for 5 years with no further costs even with free hardware. Please don't just reply without thinking actually read what I'm saying, it makes prefect sense.

If you would made this calculations a year ago with an Avalon@200 GH pulling 2.4 kW none of it would aply now. Same will be after one year. And please make again your calculation with the price of energy from China, you will be surprised of the difference.

[Group Bitcoin]

I understand people will defend their investment.

But any logical mind capable rational thought and basic math can quickly deduce the fact selling a GH/s on 26/06/14 for $2 to mine for 5 years with no further running costs is utterly impossible.

I don't know pb runs or not but it's really possible.At least they can pay by 5 year contracts and also make profit.You look only one corner but its also 3 other corners.I'm geting hardware from china less than 2 usd per ghs(1.45 usd) and mine nearly same btc as they pay so for Me if I start do same and people  buy it I can do huge profits and pay whem also with terms of contract.
and if I order like pb I can get even cheaper.

Your hardware from china uses around 1w per GH/s right ? Lets say 0.5w it doesn't but lets just imagine it does.

0.5w run for 5 years is over $2 in Washington state one of the cheapest areas in the world.

Over $2 for ELECTRICITY alone at 0.5w per GH/s efficiency.

They charge $2 per GH/s. This is not mathematically possible to run that GH/s for 5 years with no further costs even with free hardware. Please don't just reply without thinking actually read what I'm saying, it makes prefect sense.

If you would made this calculations a year ago with an Avalon@200 GH pulling 2.4 kW none of it would aply now. Same will be after one year. And please make again your calculation with the price of energy from China, you will be surprised of the difference.

They're selling it now though, so that's completely pointless comment. If someone sold cloud mining on that Avalon machine a year ago they had to buy it in the first place now it's not worth anything in relation to some new hardware like a Terraminer so no money to upgrade that hardware. If there was more efficient hardware in the future that has no relation to selling a GH/s now 27/06/14. Even if they bought the new future hardware it wouldn't be free would it? and the hardware isn't free to buy now is it? A 800TH/s data center isn't free either.

The fact of the matter is... It's over $4 for 5 years ELECTRICITY alone for 1w. In one of the cheapest areas in the world.

At 0.5w per GH/s efficiency which doesn't exist it's more like 1w per GH/s at the moment. It would cost $2 per GH/s for the 5 years electric.

So even if China is much much cheaper than $0.10 ok lets say it's $0.05 and they have hardware efficiency that doesn't exist that's still $1 so that leaves $1 for the hardware, cooling, data center, staff, insurance per GH/s for 5 years. Please don't just reply quickly read what I'm saying and think about it.

Also they're almost certainly not in China the general idea is that they're in Canada.

You cannot mine with 1TH/s for 5 years for $2000 with no other running costs.

[PBmining]

They're selling it now though, so that's completely pointless comment.

It's not pointless at all actually.  There is nothing on our web site to say that the customer will be mining with the same hardware for 5 years.  

[Group Bitcoin]

They're selling it now though, so that's completely pointless comment.

It's not pointless at all actually.  There is nothing on our web site to say that the customer will be mining with the same hardware for 5 years.  

You quoted the first sentence... If someone sold cloud mining on that Avalon machine a year ago they had to buy it in the first place now it's not worth anything in relation to some new hardware like a Terraminer so no money to upgrade that hardware. If there was more efficient hardware in the future that has no relation to selling a GH/s now 27/06/14. Even if they bought the new future hardware it wouldn't be free would it? and the hardware isn't free to buy now is it? A 800TH/s data center isn't free either.

Hardware goes down in value rapidly meaning there's nothing to pay for the new hardware.

At 0.5w/GH/s efficiency it's over $2 for 5 years for 1GH/s this efficiency doesn't exist yet it's much more.  

Electricity alone for your contract in one of the cheapest areas in the world, on efficiency that doesn't exist yet is over you cost per GH/s

[tprogex]

"Group Bitcoin" I see You do same business in UK as PB in Canada  and sell ghs for 2.8 usd and only with order more than 1 ths.In UK kwh more expensive than in Canada,so Your long term success is less possible because of kwh price and I think Your goal to spread FUD here and get some customers, I'm adding You on my ignore list and if possible remove  "Group Bitcoin" from this thread.

[Group Bitcoin]

"Group Bitcoin" I see You do same business as PB in UK and sell ghs for 2.8 usd and only with order more than 1 ths.In UK kwh more expensive than in Canada, and I think Your goal to spread FUD here and get some customers, I'm adding You on my ignore list and if possible remove  "Group Bitcoin" from this thread.

FUD is opinion and wild speculation to discourage people. Please read my comments I'm stating facts. Do what you will.

Grab a calculator and use your brain.

Are you a moderator ? Given what I've said, if my comments are removed this forum is entirely corrupt.

Calm down I'm not insulting your financial decision to invest, think rationally and actually read and understand what I have said here.

[PilotofBTC]

They're selling it now though, so that's completely pointless comment.

It's not pointless at all actually.  There is nothing on our web site to say that the customer will be mining with the same hardware for 5 years.  

Of course, if you were more transparent:

Post pictures of your data center.
Post your pool mining info, hash rates and BTC addresses.
Post some hardware info, electric costs, efficiency, etc.

Since you are buying hardware with the BTC used to buy contracts, mining BTC with it to make the payouts, this info should be fairly easy to provide. It wouldn't expose your business model or your physical address and passport. No one needs to know that info.

Once you've done that, the ponzi FUD on this thread will (mostly) go away.

[PilotofBTC]

"Group Bitcoin" I see You do same business in UK as PB in Canada  and sell ghs for 2.8 usd and only with order more than 1 ths.In UK kwh more expensive than in Canada,so Your long term success is less possible because of kwh price and I think Your goal to spread FUD here and get some customers, I'm adding You on my ignore list and if possible remove  "Group Bitcoin" from this thread.

What business is that?

[jonsi]

They're selling it now though, so that's completely pointless comment.

It's not pointless at all actually.  There is nothing on our web site to say that the customer will be mining with the same hardware for 5 years.  

You quoted the first sentence... If someone sold cloud mining on that Avalon machine a year ago they had to buy it in the first place now it's not worth anything in relation to some new hardware like a Terraminer so no money to upgrade that hardware. If there was more efficient hardware in the future that has no relation to selling a GH/s now 27/06/14. Even if they bought the new future hardware it wouldn't be free would it? and the hardware isn't free to buy now is it? A 800TH/s data center isn't free either.

Hardware goes down in value rapidly meaning there's nothing to pay for the new hardware.

At 0.5w/GH/s efficiency it's over $2 for 5 years for 1GH/s this efficiency doesn't exist yet it's much more.  

Electricity alone for your contract in one of the cheapest areas in the world, on efficiency that doesn't exist yet is over you cost per GH/s

You are very limited in your point of view. Maybe (and I say maybe because I don't know how this business model work) they buy hardware for x and sell it for y resulting a profit of y-x=z. The z doesn't all go into profit but a part goes in reinestments, a fund for future upgrades and future expansion, because, as a business you have to think of this parts. You just assume that they all take as profit but I know for shure it doesn't work like that, because I have a business (not btc related) but the principles apply also.

[Group Bitcoin]

They're selling it now though, so that's completely pointless comment.

It's not pointless at all actually.  There is nothing on our web site to say that the customer will be mining with the same hardware for 5 years.  

You quoted the first sentence... If someone sold cloud mining on that Avalon machine a year ago they had to buy it in the first place now it's not worth anything in relation to some new hardware like a Terraminer so no money to upgrade that hardware. If there was more efficient hardware in the future that has no relation to selling a GH/s now 27/06/14. Even if they bought the new future hardware it wouldn't be free would it? and the hardware isn't free to buy now is it? A 800TH/s data center isn't free either.

Hardware goes down in value rapidly meaning there's nothing to pay for the new hardware.

At 0.5w/GH/s efficiency it's over $2 for 5 years for 1GH/s this efficiency doesn't exist yet it's much more.  

Electricity alone for your contract in one of the cheapest areas in the world, on efficiency that doesn't exist yet is over you cost per GH/s

You are very limited in your point of view. Maybe (and I say maybe because I don't know how this business model work) they buy hardware for x and sell it for y resulting a profit of y-x=z. The z doesn't all go into profit but a part goes in reinestments, a fund for future upgrades and future expansion, because, as a business you have to think of this parts. You just assume that they all take as profit but I'm know for shure it doesn't work like that, because I have a business (not btc related) but the principles apply also.

'your view is very limited' Your understanding of mining is obviously limited the product x uses electricity.......

Electricity alone for the 5 year contract in one of the cheapest areas in the world, on efficiency that doesn't exist yet it is over the cost per GH/s at $2

Hardware is not free, 800TH/s data centers are not free.

This is not Ponzi Fud It's quite simple logic.

[tprogex]

"Group Bitcoin" I see You do same business in UK as PB in Canada  and sell ghs for 2.8 usd and only with order more than 1 ths.In UK kwh more expensive than in Canada,so Your long term success is less possible because of kwh price and I think Your goal to spread FUD here and get some customers, I'm adding You on my ignore list and if possible remove  "Group Bitcoin" from this thread.

What business is that?

bitcoin cloud mining

[PilotofBTC]

"Group Bitcoin" I see You do same business in UK as PB in Canada  and sell ghs for 2.8 usd and only with order more than 1 ths.In UK kwh more expensive than in Canada,so Your long term success is less possible because of kwh price and I think Your goal to spread FUD here and get some customers, I'm adding You on my ignore list and if possible remove  "Group Bitcoin" from this thread.

What business is that?

bitcoin cloud mining

cex.io you mean?