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Author Topic: [ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency  (Read 9724784 times)
xkcdd
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November 15, 2021, 11:30:39 AM


Is there evidence miners are less likely to hodl than masternode owners? I need to see proof because I smell bullshit  


Even if there is it doesn't matter because miners have a transaction on the "buy side" to compensate for their sale. So at worst they're brokers, not sellers. An exchange investor is the ultimate net buyer.

Masternodes however have no such compensating activity on the "buy side". They are net sellers when rewards are realised. The investor who buys their coin ? Their investment capital does not reach the blockchain, it gets diverted into MN pocket never to be seen again by the Dash ecosystem.

This is what eats the marketcap on a chronic basis relative to fully-mined competitors.

This is the sort of twisted logic I've come to expect from governments. Jog on, Toknormal.
pabloangello
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November 15, 2021, 11:33:41 AM

Dash looks pretty good


toknormal
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November 15, 2021, 11:49:10 AM
Last edit: November 15, 2021, 12:50:42 PM by toknormal


This is the sort of twisted logic I've come to expect from governments. Jog on, Toknormal.

Except it just keeps delivering "results".

Funny that.

Now that we're in the top-80 marketcap rankings with transaction count on the deck (due to a gazilion competing decentralised payment methods on offer) and store-of-value performance on the deck (due to a torpedoed mining quota), maybe your own mantras might start to have some effect.

Never mind that none of the scarcity-based mined offerings support SIMULTANEOUSLY a very high mining quota that can compete with bitcoin's store-of-value performance AND a service network that can compete with the best de-fi has to offer. But we would not want to avail ourselves of that unique market vacancy would we ? That would be stupid and a "waste of hashrate".

The only question now therefore is:

"how low"
"does the bar have to go ?"


Pang.
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November 17, 2021, 05:02:41 PM
Last edit: November 17, 2021, 08:31:21 PM by Pang.

I hope that with the arrival of the Dash platform, we can see real advertising in the style of this:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1461001926615736335

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/nov/17/la-lakers-home-to-be-renamed-cryptocom-arena-in-reported-700m-deal#:~:text=Staples%20Center%20is%20getting%20a,owner%20AEG%20announced%20Tuesday%20night.
bigrcanada1
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November 20, 2021, 01:53:02 AM

Its unbelievable what a bunch of disingenuous and/or delusional morons some of you are.  If mining were so f#$#ing important, then why is DASH in the top 14 coins when filtered by minable?  Being in the top of CMC has ZERO to do with who's receiving the block rewards between miners vs masternode owners!    60 of the top coin projects aren't even minable!    Stop, you sound pathetic!
Dahaa
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November 20, 2021, 06:38:56 AM

This shit will soon be giving away for free. There is no more money even for bots here. Grin
toknormal
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November 20, 2021, 10:00:48 AM


If mining were so f#$#ing important, then why is DASH in the top 14 coins when filtered by minable?

LoL !! Are you serious ? There only are 14 "mineables" in the entire top-80 digital assets and we're...wait for it..number 14 amongst them !  Cheesy

If you count staying more valuable than Ravencoin as a success then why not invest in litecoin instead ? It's even more valuable than Dash.

That is why mining is "so f#$#ing important", especially if you're a "mineable" because you don't have any on-chain sink to generate demand from hosted applications. It's all in the scarcity value which uses mining as the transmission mechanism to get capital "into the chain" as described here.
xkcdd
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November 21, 2021, 09:34:16 AM

Dash is a solid Top 100 coin.
Pang.
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November 21, 2021, 04:43:33 PM

Dash is a solid Top 100 coin.

At the moment Dash fulfills its mission.

If we gradually achieve a DEFI where small investors deposit a part of their capital, we will advance further.

I have been asking DCG to make a stacking wallet for years but them has never been interested. They always sold us master node shares, but the years go by and we will see if 2022 brings something of what was promised. At least the crowdnode guys are going to give us something that we should have had years ago.


Sure enough, if Dash hasn't died already, it will stay alive for many years. Its survival is based on its value, and its value is derived from use.

Give Dash a global Dash Direct on all continents, offer your holders a VISA, and you will see how little by little, Dash is not only used to be cash, but also to be a reserve currency,

Every penny that Dash network earns multiplies its growth possibilities, and each time a new wallet is created for a new person, new payment possibilities are opened up to this person at lightning speed and safely ... even the safest there is today.
Alexey45
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November 22, 2021, 08:49:10 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWL9_rQdslk

Where are you all?
Where is the powerful advertising?
Where are the 10,000 posts a day about DASH?
Where is the crazy growth of the coin?
Advertising manager are you sleeping?
xkcdd
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November 22, 2021, 09:07:43 AM

Where are you all?
Where is the powerful advertising?
Where are the 10,000 posts a day about DASH?
Where is the crazy growth of the coin?
Advertising manager are you sleeping?

Alexey45, those are good questions, are you aware of the Dash Marketing Hub?  It is a grass roots initiative to promote Dash and bring more attention to it, anybody can submit a concept and take a bounty to do some promotion for Dash.  Do you have some ideas?  Are you capable to spread the message of Dash?  Why not take a look at the trello board today !

https://youtu.be/uwGVTzloIcQ
https://www.dashcentral.org/p/dash-marketing-hub-2
https://trello.com/b/kk4LcqJY/dash-marketing-hub
toknormal
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November 22, 2021, 12:07:54 PM
Last edit: November 23, 2021, 06:17:21 PM by toknormal



Dash isn't some kind of product like toothpaste where marketing makes the difference in terms of competitive performance.

If it works as a store of value it attracts capital from investment markets. If it doesn't work as a store of value it bleeds capital to other assets that work better.

Marketing isn't going to change a damn thing except keep a few existing investors happy. A comfort blanket. We are great at marketing to ourselves but seem uninterested in anyone else. Anyone outside of the Dash ecosystem.

The best marketing you can get is to slide up the rankings on CMC. To do that you need an efficient mechanism to transfer capital into the chain, not to bleed it out of the chain as un-earned masternode rewards do.

That's all it there is to it.

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November 22, 2021, 02:36:31 PM

Its unbelievable what a bunch of disingenuous and/or delusional morons some of you are.  If mining were so f#$#ing important, then why is DASH in the top 14 coins when filtered by minable?  Being in the top of CMC has ZERO to do with who's receiving the block rewards between miners vs masternode owners!    60 of the top coin projects aren't even minable!    Stop, you sound pathetic!


Don't let them get under your skin Wink
Alexey45
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November 24, 2021, 01:00:12 PM

https://mnowatch.org/dash-stats/

The graph shows well that the masternode is not profitable. People sell their MN
The bull market happens once every 4 years and everyone wants to earn a lot more than 6%
Make powerful ads! And flew to the moon)
xkcdd
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November 24, 2021, 08:11:10 PM

https://mnowatch.org/dash-stats/

The graph shows well that the masternode is not profitable. People sell their MN
The bull market happens once every 4 years and everyone wants to earn a lot more than 6%
Make powerful ads! And flew to the moon)

Yes, Alexey45, I see it too, we've had a large holder exit DASH and that caused the sharp dip in the count of masternodes, but what it also did is push up the return (in DASH) for running a masternode and I am very keen to learn at what rate the market sees value in running a masternode again and starts accumulating them creating our next bubble.  Also, Alexey45, take a look at the recent price action, despite heavy masternode selling, did you see the price dip?  No.  Instead it held its ground, this is very bullish, this is showing there is great underlying demand for DASH already and once this big seller is out of the way we could see a breakout.
toknormal
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November 25, 2021, 12:28:32 AM
Last edit: November 25, 2021, 02:52:12 PM by toknormal

but what it also did is push up the return (in DASH) for running a masternode and I am very keen to learn at what rate the market sees value in running a masternode again and starts accumulating them creating our next bubble.  Also, Alexey45, take a look at the recent price action, despite heavy masternode selling, did you see the price dip?  No.  Instead it held its ground, this is very bullish, this is showing there is great underlying demand for DASH already and once this big seller is out of the way we could see a breakout.

Some of this happens to be true and some of it is just clinging to any port in a storm instead of (what you could be doing) advocating for Dash's powerful governance mechanism to be deployed to adapt the protocol for maximum competitiveness.

Dash is capable of attacking competitors to an extent that few if any "coins" are. But it can't do that while its hands are tied behind its back by a masternode community who's priority is to leech as much of the marketcap into their own pockets as they possibly can.

The irony of the masternodes' flawed priority is that they ignore the opportunity cost of growth in purchasing power of their collateral which is required to be pledged in order to receive mining rewards that would otherwise be directed to raising the price in the primary (mining) market. That price advantage alone can move the value of their collateral far more than the incremental coin-count of their Dash holdings can. We've seen that already.

Let us look at the OBV (On Balance Volume) in the longer term charts of Dash vs Bitcoin. We can see that there is some accumulation going on. OBV is lazily moving contrary to the price trace on the longest range charts. But it's barely detectable and this is in the middle of one of the greatest bull markets ever for crypto. So we'd expect that. But the problem is, this is also happening with fully mined coins and it isn't reflected in rankings.

(It might be for a brief few weeks when the "pumpers" get hold of us but that will only serve as an exit door for shills rather than people who actually want to stay in Dash and believe in it on the basis of fundamentals).



The reason for that (and the difference from the last time) is one and one only: we are at masternode equilibrium

Dash's marketcap growth dynamics are completely different at masternode equilibrium from what they are when we are moving from 400 masternodes to 4000. That's because it doesn't really matter how much of the supply is in or out of circulation, it's the rate at which it's taken out or put in to circulation that matters. At masternode equilibrium, the collateralising supply no longer has any effect on that rate. The dynamics shift so that the masternode rewards now become the dominant factor and those are all on the sell side only. (Miners have to buy the supply that they subsequently sell).

This explains why Dash is now at the bottom of the marketcap rankings for all mined coins in the top 80 digital assets. If it was true that we "didn't need all this hashrate", we'd be at the top because only half of our supply has to be competed for with hashrate whereas all of their's does. We are twice as competitive as them in terms of "not needing hashrate" yet we're at the bottom of the heap. The masternodes got something wrong there.

However Dash could turn this around and use its powerfull governance mechanism to its advantage. It's a simple step process:

1. understand the "mining" business model and its role in transferring fiat capital into a blockchain token

2. recognise that the reason we've lost so much competitivity corresponds to our lack of performance in store of value

3. masternodes need to appreciate growth in the value of their collateral (capital gain) at least as much as the Dash denominated rewards they received (because, having so much at stake, it can also manifest as a capital loss which will simply wipe out those Dash denominated rewards in an instant)

4. anyone who gets past points 1-3 will immediately realise how cheap service performance can be for Dash alone (exclusive, not available to Bitcoin, Litecoin, Monero et al) and how much masternode rewards can be increased by shifting a component towards capital gain and away from a Dash-denominated income level that results in overall capital loss

The key to this is understanding the difference between a risk asset and a stable coin. In a stable coin we wouldn't have this problem. Masternode income would be masternode income, end of story. You would not have to calculate your aggregate reward by offsetting that income against the capital loss of your collateral. But Dash is not a stable coin. So you do have to calculate your reward by taking capital loss (or gain) of collateral into account and IMO masternodes should therefore be interested in Dash's protocol features which can maximise their capital gain, not just their Dash-denominated rewards.

The technical reason for that is that Dash inherits bitcoin's innate monetary properties but also (at a technology level) managed to decouple the mining protocol to liberate a new service layer protocol. But this advantage is lost if the project is co-opted by people (masternode operators) who simply don't even value the mining protocol. We end up with the worst of all worlds - not a de-fi token and not a highly mined scarcity token either.

One final point. When I say "capital loss" I'm talking mainly about opportunity cost. The cost of remaining invested in Dash while Bitcoin, Litecoin, Monero et al hammer us on ranking. Ranking means marketcap loss and marketcap loss means opportunity cost and opportunity cost ultimately means "staying in fiat". Ok you didn't lose any fiat-vauled Dash but you sure lost out by not being invested in Bitcoin.

Dash has and has always had an immensely powerful offering which was as good in store-of-value terms as it was in usability "what a nice wallet" terms. But we will not be able to deploy this advantage without being thinking, competitive and addressing elephants in the room.

Otherwise page 2 awaits us.
Alexey45
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November 26, 2021, 03:53:05 AM
Last edit: November 26, 2021, 12:38:26 PM by mprep

Raise the difficulty.
Create a scarcity.
Make a PR action, hype.
Make Russian content on youtube.
Show love for dogs and cats.
(dogs sell well, and DASH it will be a good blue-dog)
Rebrand or do something.
Show that the project is alive!



SEO-promotion and contextual advertising "Yandex Direct" and "Google Adwords",
Targeted advertising "INSTAGRAM", "FACEBOOK", "VKontakte" and "TikTok".

Make DASH shine everywhere, on all open spaces of the Internet!

Hard? Can't handle it? Just tired of it?
Sell the project to decent smart people ...

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]
Pang.
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November 26, 2021, 07:31:58 AM

It is clear that incorrect decisions are being made in some respects.

Masternodes have dropped by more than 200 in three months.

Daily transactions, even promoting dash direct, have dropped during 2020 from an average of 25,000 to around 13,000

The capitalization with respect to BTC has been greatly affected compared to similar currencies such as LTC, Doge, even Zcash or even BCH

The market is clearly telling us that it is not interested in things as they are being done.

It is evident that either there is a change of course or this will be a project that in the long term will be reduced to use among a few friends.

When the crypto winter begins and BTC retreats 50% from its new ATHs, it is very possible that Dash will do it 80%, and that would destroy its budget, and possibly not a handful of programmers will be able to pay. is that what we want?


Greetings and good luck.
xkcdd
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November 26, 2021, 12:05:38 PM

There is a lot to unpack here and I don't want to miss the opportunity to talk about DASH clearly one of my favourite assets at the moment.  Grin

SEO-promotion and contextual advertising "Yandex Direct" and "Google Adwords",
Targeted advertising "INSTAGRAM", "FACEBOOK", "VKontakte" and "TikTok".

Make DASH shine everywhere, on all open spaces of the Internet!

Alexey45, Yes!  I am glad you mentioned this.  I wonder, are you aware of the Dash Marketing Hub (DMH)  It is a way that community members with ideas and actions can get involved with marketing Dash!  This is in addition to DCG's marketing which has so far put toppers on ride sharing cars in Miami.  The DMH is a great way for people with ideas on marketing Dash to get paid for doing some work for us!  Please visit https://trello.com/b/kk4LcqJY/dash-marketing-hub to learn more.  In essence you can post a concept to the board, eg Develop a Russian speaking social group which creates youtube videos in Russian and hosts meetups and the like!  This if approved can win you some Dash and if you go ahead and create and grow that group you could claim the bounty too!  Did you know that Dash has several Russian devs?  Dash seems to be generally liked in Russia and I think we can grow awareness there too, can you help?




It is clear that incorrect decisions are being made in some respects.

Masternodes have dropped by more than 200 in three months.

Pang, we had some large elderly whales sell everything recently, it has given price resistance from moving up.  Now for the good news, those old coins which were bought for less than $15 have now got a new price tag on them - $200. The people that bought them value them far more than the sellers did and likely won't sell until profit is reached.  Also, did you know that when nodes sell the ROI in Dash increases?  This means, those masternodes that remain get paid more and this makes buying a Dash Masternode more alluring to people looking to invest in the space.  In other words, Dash is a self rectifying system, this some of the hidden genius of Evan Duffield!

..............
When the crypto winter begins and BTC retreats 50% from its new ATHs, it is very possible that Dash will do it 80%, and that would destroy its budget, and possibly not a handful of programmers will be able to pay. is that what we want?

Actually, this is quite false!  DCG have advised us that they have 12 months of reserve to pay for ALL developers in case of catastrophe.  That means, if price fell to zero and stayed there for 12 months they can pay everyone.  Their current break even price is $140.  Thus, if price falls to $70 and stays there for 2 years, they will be broke.  Now you understand, DCG cannot go broke again, because they have the reserves to see the bear market through.  Good question though !
Pang.
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November 26, 2021, 04:00:00 PM

You don't have to convince me of anything.

I've been in the crypto markets since 2012 and have tried almost everything.

Today I had to make a transaction with ETH and I finally canceled it, because it cost me a $ 25 commission for moving $ 300.

I know perfectly well that Dash is the best there is for payments, and its main quality, which others boast but do not offer, is security, speed, and decentralization.

There will be faster currencies possibly, with more TPS, with very beautiful wallets, with smart contracts, with online chats ...

I am not looking for any of that, I am looking for the safest and cheapest and most decentralized network.

Simple.

Anyway, I reiterate that you do not expect DCG to remain holding their Dash if for example the price drops to $ 20 for years ... they will walk away, and the holders will eat your bad decisions.

As for marketing ... it is not about putting posters on cars, nobody looks at that. It was done years ago with the advertising of the airlines and it was worth nothing.

What is worth, is for example seeing Matt Damon or Lady Gaga, using their Dash wallet to buy a hamburger or buy a pair of sneakers.

understands?

Car marketing is fine for advertising a locksmith, but not a global project like Dash,

Are we kidding or what's wrong?

Greetings and I appreciate the response.

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