[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[BrainShutdown]

do you know what do Merchants need? is it 4 seconds or longer (and if so can the MN network get this down to 4 seconds only like credit cards)

4 seconds guarantees the funds are yours, the 6th confirmation allows you to spend those funds.

I didn't know you had to wait for the 6th?  I thought IX could be IX'd one more time before having to wait?

To spend coins you need 6 confirmations correct?

IX gives 5  in ~4 seconds, the 6th needs to be POW 

[Minotaur26]

Why did BTC crash ?

Another reasonably large scam involving stolen BTC could have set things off.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2015/03/18/evolution-market-a-scam-says-site-pr/

so with the masternode network is there anyway in future to

a) do decentralized exchange

b) some kind of escrow that would let users trade real assets more safely

I am not sure about a decentralized exchange per se, as that would involve other assets on the platform, but I really do think some sort of escrow mechanism with time locks could be a possibility in the future. That would be another way to apply the transaction locking mechanism from InstantX.

We have discussed in the past the possibility of using the transaction locks in exactly the opposite way they were originally conceived. Initially the cool thing was that you could set a transaction lock so quick ~4secs, but the transaction locks also have a parameter that allows you to set a lock for an extended period of time, lets say one week, and I think that has potential to be applied to some sort of escrow mechanism.

cool thanks Minotaur. You please about your mention in LTB?

One thing I didn't get, IX is 4 seconds for MN confirmation, but ~1.5 for 6 confirmations

do you know what do Merchants need? is it 4 seconds or longer (and if so can the MN network get this down to 4 seconds only like credit cards)

That was nice of Evan, I had no idea.

That is a good question about InstantX.  When payment processors and merchants start accepting an InstantX transaction lock as enough confirmation to validate a transaction then as an end user you will see your transaction fully confirmed after ~4 seconds, but InstantX is a new technology and there is nothing like it in the market, so is going to take some time until payment processors and merchants understand it and start trusting it as enough confirmation to fully validate a transaction.

In the meantime, an InstantX lock gives you the equivalent to 5 network confirmations and then the 6th confirmation is a normal Proof of Work confirmation so on average 1.5 minutes. Merchants and payment processors normally require 6 confirmations so this is already a huge improvement that requires no action on the merchant or payment processors side.  

The moment a merchant, payment processor or exchange decide to take an InstantX lock as a full confirmation without waiting for any extra steps, at that moment the end user would see his purchase validated in ~4 seconds.  I think it will require us to publish an updated white-paper, and also some time for the technology to mature, but I am positive at some point in the future some merchant or payment processor would take advantage of the technology and present it as a competitive advantage of their own. Something like "Come trade here, we support InstantX, get a full confirmation after 4 seconds"  I would expect a younger exchange or payment processor to take a step like this first to try to differentiate itself, is a competitive landscape out there.

[Minotaur26]

I am not sure about a decentralized exchange per se, as that would involve other assets on the platform, but I really do think some sort of escrow mechanism with time locks could be a possibility in the future. That would be another way to apply the transaction locking mechanism from InstantX.

We have discussed in the past the possibility of using the transaction locks in exactly the opposite way they were originally conceived. Initially the cool thing was that you could set a transaction lock so quick ~4secs, but the transaction locks also have a parameter that allows you to set a lock for an extended period of time, lets say one week, and I think that has potential to be applied to some sort of escrow mechanism.

I love the idea of time locking, you could pay a bill in advance but they would not get it until the due date-there are many uses.
Is there a way of setting the config to delay an instantX, seem to remember something about instantxdepth, can I try it now, will this work?

I am not entirely sure how it would work with instantxdepth right now, maybe Udjin, Flare or Evan could discuss that. But that is exactly the parameter I was talking about, I suspect it may need to be adapted to the applications we are discussing, but in principle the tech is already there.

[etoque]

do you know what do Merchants need? is it 4 seconds or longer (and if so can the MN network get this down to 4 seconds only like credit cards)

4 seconds guarantees the funds are yours, the 6th confirmation allows you to spend those funds.

Ok just to clarify, it's safe to tell people that with Dash you could buy in store ~4 seconds not 1.5 minutes?

In 4 seconds the merchant has the guarantee that there is no rollback in the transaction, so the cash belongs to him, so yes.

Thanks Brain!  

So to me that means this is the first 'working' digital currency for the mass market! massive selling point

Oh yes   sound same for me

[BlockaFett]

Why did BTC crash ?

Another reasonably large scam involving stolen BTC could have set things off.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2015/03/18/evolution-market-a-scam-says-site-pr/

so with the masternode network is there anyway in future to

a) do decentralized exchange

b) some kind of escrow that would let users trade real assets more safely

I am not sure about a decentralized exchange per se, as that would involve other assets on the platform, but I really do think some sort of escrow mechanism with time locks could be a possibility in the future. That would be another way to apply the transaction locking mechanism from InstantX.

We have discussed in the past the possibility of using the transaction locks in exactly the opposite way they were originally conceived. Initially the cool thing was that you could set a transaction lock so quick ~4secs, but the transaction locks also have a parameter that allows you to set a lock for an extended period of time, lets say one week, and I think that has potential to be applied to some sort of escrow mechanism.

cool thanks Minotaur. You please about your mention in LTB?

One thing I didn't get, IX is 4 seconds for MN confirmation, but ~1.5 for 6 confirmations

do you know what do Merchants need? is it 4 seconds or longer (and if so can the MN network get this down to 4 seconds only like credit cards)

That was nice of Evan, I had no idea.

That is a good question about InstantX.  When payment processors and merchants start accepting an InstantX transaction lock as enough confirmation to validate a transaction then as an end user you will see your transaction fully confirmed after ~4 seconds, but InstantX is a new technology and there is nothing like it in the market, so is going to take some time until payment processors and merchants understand it and start trusting it as enough confirmation to fully validate a transaction.

In the meantime, an InstantX lock gives you the equivalent to 5 network confirmations and then the 6th confirmation is a normal Proof of Work confirmation so on average 1.5 minutes. Merchants and payment processors normally require 6 confirmations so this is already a huge improvement that requires no action on the merchant or payment processors side.  

The moment a merchant, payment processor or exchange decide to take an InstantX lock as a full confirmation without waiting for any extra steps, at that moment the end user would see his purchase validate in ~4 seconds.  I think it will require us to publish an updated white-paper, and also some time for the technology to mature, but I am positive at some point in the future some merchant or payment processor would take advantage of the technology and present it as a competitive advantage of their own. Something like "Come trade here, we support InstantX, get a full confirmation after 4 seconds"  I would expect a younger exchange or payment processor to take a step like this first to try to differentiate itself, is a competitive landscape out there.

it's really key to get this ~4 seconds and not ~1.5 minutes across the market (so merchants ultimately don't require POW on the spot)

excluding the early adopters who might require POW, if 5 confirmations were not enough generally maybe get more masternodes involved each time?  (because masternodes can be scaled out with bandwith etc wheras block time is fixed obviously)

[Sub-Ether]

I didn't know you had to wait for the 6th?  I thought IX could be IX'd one more time before having to wait?

Also, an instantX transaction has block priority, it will always be placed in the next block even if there are a lot of normal transactions before it.

[Minotaur26]

Why did BTC crash ?

Another reasonably large scam involving stolen BTC could have set things off.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2015/03/18/evolution-market-a-scam-says-site-pr/

so with the masternode network is there anyway in future to

a) do decentralized exchange

b) some kind of escrow that would let users trade real assets more safely

I am not sure about a decentralized exchange per se, as that would involve other assets on the platform, but I really do think some sort of escrow mechanism with time locks could be a possibility in the future. That would be another way to apply the transaction locking mechanism from InstantX.

We have discussed in the past the possibility of using the transaction locks in exactly the opposite way they were originally conceived. Initially the cool thing was that you could set a transaction lock so quick ~4secs, but the transaction locks also have a parameter that allows you to set a lock for an extended period of time, lets say one week, and I think that has potential to be applied to some sort of escrow mechanism.

cool thanks Minotaur. You please about your mention in LTB?

One thing I didn't get, IX is 4 seconds for MN confirmation, but ~1.5 for 6 confirmations

do you know what do Merchants need? is it 4 seconds or longer (and if so can the MN network get this down to 4 seconds only like credit cards)

That was nice of Evan, I had no idea.

That is a good question about InstantX.  When payment processors and merchants start accepting an InstantX transaction lock as enough confirmation to validate a transaction then as an end user you will see your transaction fully confirmed after ~4 seconds, but InstantX is a new technology and there is nothing like it in the market, so is going to take some time until payment processors and merchants understand it and start trusting it as enough confirmation to fully validate a transaction.

In the meantime, an InstantX lock gives you the equivalent to 5 network confirmations and then the 6th confirmation is a normal Proof of Work confirmation so on average 1.5 minutes. Merchants and payment processors normally require 6 confirmations so this is already a huge improvement that requires no action on the merchant or payment processors side.  

The moment a merchant, payment processor or exchange decide to take an InstantX lock as a full confirmation without waiting for any extra steps, at that moment the end user would see his purchase validate in ~4 seconds.  I think it will require us to publish an updated white-paper, and also some time for the technology to mature, but I am positive at some point in the future some merchant or payment processor would take advantage of the technology and present it as a competitive advantage of their own. Something like "Come trade here, we support InstantX, get a full confirmation after 4 seconds"  I would expect a younger exchange or payment processor to take a step like this first to try to differentiate itself, is a competitive landscape out there.

it's really key to get this ~4 seconds and not ~1.5 minutes across the market (so merchants ultimately don't require POW on the spot)

excluding the early adopters who might require POW, if 5 confirmations were not enough generally maybe get more masternodes involved each time?  (because masternodes can be scaled out with bandwith etc wheras block time is fixed obviously)

The transaction is locked after ~4 seconds and there is absolutely no way to reverse the transaction at that point, but like I said the merchants and payment processors need to act on that to make it available to the public.  No worries about that, the market will take care of it, is a huge competitive advantage and people will start using it to their favor, but like I said, understandably it will take some time for them to digest it.

[BrainShutdown]

I didn't know you had to wait for the 6th?  I thought IX could be IX'd one more time before having to wait?

Also, an instantX transaction has block priority, it will always be placed in the next block even if there are a lot of normal transactions before it.

Great! Missed that thanks

[BlockaFett]

I didn't know you had to wait for the 6th?  I thought IX could be IX'd one more time before having to wait?

Also, an instantX transaction has block priority, it will always be placed in the next block even if there are a lot of normal transactions before it.

i think from merchant's perspectives we need to de-couple the idea of needing the block confirmation for the on-the-spot payment and just throw enough masternodes at it.   there funds won't 'clear' for ~1.5 minutes but they always do so that's not bad (and consumers at the checkout get to pay always ~4 seconds).  

EDIT: anyone here a merchant or deal with merchants and what they think about it?  BigR?

EDIT2: we're gonna need more masternodes

[Sub-Ether]

haha, not sure this is a bug or hunky dory, but when I set instantxdepth=100 in config i get 60 confirmations instantly (resetting wallet results in normal POW again) ..

Edit : warning, do not try negative numbers in instantxdepth, it results in a conflicted transaction!!

Edit2 : lol, have reset wallet, and conflict has magically disappeared, even I have trouble breaking it, damn these programmers are good 

[Minotaur26]

I didn't know you had to wait for the 6th?  I thought IX could be IX'd one more time before having to wait?

Also, an instantX transaction has block priority, it will always be placed in the next block even if there are a lot of normal transactions before it.

i think from merchant's perspectives we need to de-couple the idea of needing the block confirmation for the on-the-spot payment and just throw enough masternodes at it.   there funds won't 'clear' for ~1.5 minutes but they always do so that's not bad (and consumers at the checkout get to pay always ~4 seconds).  

EDIT: anyone here a merchant or deal with merchants and what they think about it?  BigR?

EDIT2: we're gonna need more masternodes

Yes, from the merchant perspective they need to understand the technology better and start taking an InstantX transaction lock as a full confirmation for the end user which is the ultimate goal. But there is nothing we need to add to the technology for that to happen, now is just a matter of educating the merchants, payment processors and exchanges about how InstantX is really secure and how they can develop a competitive advantage from it and get them to start offering it as an option.

I think that is going to happen organically, no rush. Already without them acting on it it is a huge advantage over other coins. The moment they act on it and start offering 4 secs full confirms to the end user at the merchant site and for retail and micro-payments; instant gratification is going to be a real advantage for many applications.

[Jesse Livermore]

Bullish charts across all timeframes.....BUY BUY BUY

Double bottom potentially made on daily and all shorter timeframe charts.
3-day chart showing this decline has declining volume now.
1-week chart showing same thing.

Overall 0.097 is main support for this. 0.0107 looks to be main resistance followed by 0.0115.

I no longer trade my holdings but if I did I'd be very long right here with a stop at 0.0096 and initial target of 0.0107, longer-term initial target of 0.0135.
JL

Double bottom successfully in place now. 0.0107 reached and breached as well. 0.0115 next target.

0.0122 is next target. The risk-reward for short-term traders is getting heavy on the 'risk' side though what-with major support down at 0.01 and minor support at 0.0109.
Overall longterm volume says that 0.01 was likely the low for some time to come though so maybe the 'risk' side comes with a low probability of likelihood versus the reward here, which has a much higher likelihood.
JL

0.0122 was tagged as the short-term high here. Nice. We're kind of floating in the ether now though. Volume kind of waining and suggests some kind of pullback might be due in short-term but long-term still points to target of 0.0135.
JL

Long term ? Why is longterm for you ? I expect over 0.015 for 25 march,so 0.0135 in the next day

Haha, good question. I'm thinking 2-4 weeks... Which for short-term chart watchers is pretty long-term. We seem to be on the move again so maybe it'll be more like 24 hours till 0.0135.

[BlockaFett]

I didn't know you had to wait for the 6th?  I thought IX could be IX'd one more time before having to wait?

Also, an instantX transaction has block priority, it will always be placed in the next block even if there are a lot of normal transactions before it.

i think from merchant's perspectives we need to de-couple the idea of needing the block confirmation for the on-the-spot payment and just throw enough masternodes at it.   there funds won't 'clear' for ~1.5 minutes but they always do so that's not bad (and consumers at the checkout get to pay always ~4 seconds).  

EDIT: anyone here a merchant or deal with merchants and what they think about it?  BigR?

EDIT2: we're gonna need more masternodes

Yes, from the merchant perspective they need to understand the technology better and start taking an InstantX transaction lock as a full confirmation for the end user which is the ultimate goal. But there is nothing we need to add to the technology for that to happen, now is just a matter of educating the merchants, payment processors and exchanges about how InstantX is really secure and how they can develop a competitive advantage from it and get them to start offering it as an option.

I think that is going to happen organically, no rush. Already without them acting on it it is a huge advantage over other coins. The moment they act on it and start offering 4 secs full confirms to the end user at the merchant site and for retail and micro-payments; instant gratification is going to be a real advantage for many applications.

sure no rush just thinking ahead, i understand a lot more after listening to the LTB

maybe some merchants can pay more for more MN confirmations if they want (sorry don't know how it's setup/incetivised right now I will go do some reading...)

EDIT: my point was i think non-POW payment from consumers to merchants needs to be 100% bullet proof at any scale for this to work as a global mass-market currency, i am getting that the tech already does that so that's great, i will read up more

[dewdeded]

- How much bigger is an InstantX TX fee vs. an classic TX fee?
- How much bigger is an DarkSend TX fee vs. an classic TX fee?
- Can an TX use (the) InstantX & DarkSend (feature) at the same time?
What would be the fee then?

Thank you.

[oaxaca]

maybe some merchants can pay more for more MN confirmations if they want (sorry don't know how it's setup/incetivised right now I will go do some reading...)

EDIT: my point was i think non-POW payment from consumers to merchants needs to be 100% bullet proof at any scale for this to work as a global mass-market currency, i am getting that the tech already does that so that's great, i will read up more

Pitch to Merchants:

"If a customer pays you with DASH / InstantX, you will get a confirmation within seconds.  You can't turn around and spend it for a few minutes, but it's locked in.  Fees are basically nothing"

How's that?

[BlockaFett]

maybe some merchants can pay more for more MN confirmations if they want (sorry don't know how it's setup/incetivised right now I will go do some reading...)

EDIT: my point was i think non-POW payment from consumers to merchants needs to be 100% bullet proof at any scale for this to work as a global mass-market currency, i am getting that the tech already does that so that's great, i will read up more

Pitch to Merchants:

"If a customer pays you with DASH / InstantX, you will get a confirmation within seconds.  You can't turn around and spend it for a few minutes, but it's locked in.  Fees are basically nothing"

How's that?

it's great. communicating this is going to be important - merchants need to get there are 2 phases to payment - confirmation of deduction from consumer (MN conf) - clearance of funds for spending by merchant (POW) i.e. the first is the 'confirmation', second just 'clearance' from commercial perspective, and communicate the safety level for merchants from not using traditional block confirms

[pookielax31]

So has an official logo been picked or is Evan getting a professional like he proposed? Whats the deal on the rebranding front with this? Thanks ahead of time for the answers

[needmoney]

We want electrum wallet for DRK

[BigTimeProducer]

- How much bigger is an InstantX TX fee vs. an classic TX fee?
- How much bigger is an DarkSend TX fee vs. an classic TX fee?
- Can an TX use (the) InstantX & DarkSend (feature) at the same time?
What would be the fee then?

Thank you.

Hi,

I don't have an answer for you, but quoting for visibility

[UdjinM6]

- How much bigger is an InstantX TX fee vs. an classic TX fee?
- How much bigger is an DarkSend TX fee vs. an classic TX fee?
- Can an TX use (the) InstantX & DarkSend (feature) at the same time?
What would be the fee then?

Thank you.

- max(classicFee, 0.01)
- DS fee is 0 to minimum denomination (0.1 now), you need to overpay to eliminate "dead change" so it depends on amount you want to send
- yes, IXFee minimum then recalculate "overpay" to get DSFee