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Author Topic: [ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency  (Read 9672912 times)
Sub-Ether
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October 29, 2015, 10:20:16 PM

Hilarious comments guys, the irc log was my favourite bit but it was all good  Grin Grin Grin
I'll leave you with a few quotes from a great thinker that I feel catch the moment,

“Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.”
“Any fool can know. The point is to understand.”
“The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.”
“Creativity is intelligence having fun.”


~~Albert Einstein~~

Dash is 27.3 times faster with syncing and updating than Bitcoin and 93.7 times faster than Monero. Bitcoin (v0.11.0) has a Tao ratio 11.2% faster than bitcoin (v0.10.0) release.
Dash (v.0.12.0.49) = Tao sync ratio = 0.15 seconds / hour of update || Dash (v.0.11.2.23) = Tao sync ratio = 0.24 seconds / hour of update. V12 versus V11 speedup = +36.5%
Bitcoin (v.0.11.0) = Tao sync ratio = 4.14 seconds / hour of update || Monero (v.0.41.1)  = Tao sync ratio = 14.2 seconds / hour of update
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October 29, 2015, 10:22:04 PM

What if I told you there are a few currencies that are taking the serious approach of testing it first, trying to write a decent paper about it and then implementing it?

I just had a fun idea: Why don't you demonstrate the awesome power a decent paper can have by writing one about the flaws in Dash's design and submit it to Ledger for publication? That would give you some serious street cred, and might actually impress quite a few people in this thread. At the very least, it would give us something concrete to talk about
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October 29, 2015, 10:24:51 PM

What I really think is that all this arguing is like masturbation, it accomplishes nothing.

So why don't we all zip down, measure up and touch wieners and get over it.

I prefer my suggestion the Dash/Monero "Academic Conference on privacy in cryptocurrencies" aka drink and argue for fun. But whatever works I guess :S
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October 29, 2015, 10:28:32 PM

Budget proposal for beer!!

Curious about the trolls methods? http://pastebin.com/irj4Fyd5
Manipulation of public discussion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bYAQ-ZZtEU
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October 29, 2015, 10:29:33 PM
Merited by iCEBREAKER (3)

So I'd like to address some of the earlier posts.

First off, to those that felt it necessary to make puerile comments about me, ad hominem attacks weaken your premise. I understand it's hard to see the wood for the trees, but honestly, get over yourselves. You aren't beyond reproach (far from it), and all of you clearly lack the humility and wherewithal to know what you don't know. Shooting the messenger doesn't make you right, it just makes you ignorant. Stating that you are ignorant is not "FUD", it's a statement of fact, but the good news is that ignorance is a state you can escape from.

Now, it's important to understand why this "spork" nonsense is so fundamentally broken. I've seen arguments centred around the "many-eyes" principle of FOSS, and some based on deterministic builds (which is an idiotic argument, and completely misses the point, so I won't be addressing it).

I know that for many of you this is your first open-source project, and your first exposure to the development of security software of any kind, and so you may be unfamiliar with thinking adversarially. You may think that merely because a handful of others glance at the code that it magically makes it secure, but that is not the case. Open-source software i just at risk as closed-source software, except that you're not paying known entities to review the code. Neither approach is a magic bullet.

So how could a backdoor be hidden in the code? If you've ever seen the International Obfuscated C Code Contest you'll know that it is reasonably trivial to make code nearly impossible to read and grok. But have you ever heard of the Underhanded C Contest? If you're familiar with C then I encourage you to take a look at some of the past entries.

The long and the short of it is that it is not unheard of, or particularly difficult, for an obfuscated back door to be slipped into open-source code. But hey - this is a risk in Bitcoin and Monero and other cryptocurrencies, so Dash is fine, right??? Well...for currencies besides Dash the risk is somewhat reduced by the fact that the effects of such a backdoor can immediately be observed, whereas with Dash the "spork" model means that an exploit can be hidden away and only activated at a later stage, or the network can be remotely forked by anyone who holds the spork key.

My conversation with dEBRUYNE was neither secret (it was in a public channel) nor was it incorrect. If you can't understand the implications of what I said then it would behove you to discuss it with me, rather than insulting me.

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October 29, 2015, 10:32:18 PM


I think this is more relevant information :

"Based only on the reaction from the audience more Dash-related presentations would be welcome at future editions of Bitcoin Wednesday."

That mean they loved it !  Grin

And :
"It was also impressive that Dash team members, Daniel Diaz, Balázs Király and Robert Wiecko also flew in (from Panama, Hungary and Switzerland, respectively) to give talks about their work on the cryptocurrency — in total five from the Dash team from five different countries.  Evan has assembled an ambitious group with a lot of interesting ideas."

 Cool

Any news on whether or not they're going to release the videos of the other speakers?

Another proud lifetime Dash Foundation member Smiley My TanteStefana account was hacked, Beware trading
"You'll never reach your destination if you stop to throw stones at every dog that barks."
Sir Winston Churchill  BTC: 12pu5nMDPEyUGu3HTbnUB5zY5RG65EQE5d
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October 29, 2015, 10:34:01 PM


as far as i know the gta v hacker is still mining and dumping about a 1000-1500 or more coins a day.
also, i think people with lots of masternodes are dumping their rewards as they already have a ton of DASH.
asic's should eventually help stop the first problem but that's a ways off.

Does it make any difference whether it's bot-hackers, masternodes or regular miners ? Isn't the daily coin emission the same whatever ?


Yup, my point was only that it was all easily absorbed by new masternodes.  I think that speaks volumes.

Another proud lifetime Dash Foundation member Smiley My TanteStefana account was hacked, Beware trading
"You'll never reach your destination if you stop to throw stones at every dog that barks."
Sir Winston Churchill  BTC: 12pu5nMDPEyUGu3HTbnUB5zY5RG65EQE5d
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October 29, 2015, 10:40:53 PM

...

Thank you for saving me from your honey pot project.

It is easier to be an aggressive victim than to be a free man.
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October 29, 2015, 10:42:34 PM

The long and the short of it is that it is not unheard of, or particularly difficult, for an obfuscated back door to be slipped into open-source code. But hey - this is a risk in Bitcoin and Monero and other cryptocurrencies, so Dash is fine, right??? Well...for currencies besides Dash the risk is somewhat reduced by the fact that the effects of such a backdoor can immediately be observed, whereas with Dash the "spork" model means that an exploit can be hidden away and only activated at a later stage, or the network can be remotely forked by anyone who holds the spork key.

Well, obviously the spork feature increases the attack surface. It also allows for more agile development. Like always, it's a trade-off. But I'm fairly sure most people here are aware of that.
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October 29, 2015, 10:43:37 PM

So I'd like to address some of the earlier posts.

First off, to those that felt it necessary to make puerile comments about me, ad hominem attacks weaken your premise. I understand it's hard to see the wood for the trees, but honestly, get over yourselves. You aren't beyond reproach (far from it), and all of you clearly lack the humility and wherewithal to know what you don't know. Shooting the messenger doesn't make you right, it just makes you ignorant. Stating that you are ignorant is not "FUD", it's a statement of fact, but the good news is that ignorance is a state you can escape from.


We wouldn't if you didn't sometimes come across like such a Doos. Ek speel maar net.

That said what would be the benefit of Evan putting malicious code into his project? Or anyone else from the dev team? Also as they can be rolled back by other members of the team any such theoretical attack from within could hopefully be negated?
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October 29, 2015, 10:44:21 PM

...printed bog paper Wink

Two raffles

One for a loaded Dash wallet handed out on a USB stick

and one for some XMR on a toilet paper based "wallet" (non-GUI but most likely gooey.....)

Paper wallets or usb sticks? Nah InstantX to people in the crowd. Preferably to their phones. Boom.
great idea but do we have a mobile wallet that supports instanTX?

DASH = Digital Cash         FAQ          DASHTALK        DashNews
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October 29, 2015, 10:44:38 PM

1) idea
2) write & code
3) peer review & test
4) implement
5) tell people about it

Out of curiosity: What is the difference between 2 and 4 in your list?

2 would be a reference implementation, in Python for example, and 4 would be the actual implementation.

OK, but then strictly speaking, you would need another test phase after 4 :-)

I'm pretty sure Satoshi, told people about it, wrote a paper, wrote some code, implemented it, pissed off.

He didn't pump bitcoin on conferences.
Of course, he told people about bitcoin. But not trying to sell it to an investment audience.

Searching for a trusted escrow service? Check my trust. I use a Trezor device for my escrow services, so your coins are safe. Fee: 0.5% or 0.05 BTC, whichever is lower
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Cetere mi opinias ke Dasho estas detruenda.     |     1Credit - Fair emission, better than BTC > CLCqECaYpCahgKRsXJiVBzgsiz57ZHfr4u
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October 29, 2015, 10:46:58 PM

...printed bog paper Wink

Two raffles

One for a loaded Dash wallet handed out on a USB stick

and one for some XMR on a toilet paper based "wallet" (non-GUI but most likely gooey.....)

Paper wallets or usb sticks? Nah InstantX to people in the crowd. Preferably to their phones. Boom.
great idea but do we have a mobile wallet that supports instanTX?


By then hopefully..Problem with that idea is getting their addresses. Spose they could just skype/email them to him.. but seems clunky. First 10 messaged addresses from the room gets 10 dash!
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October 29, 2015, 10:47:14 PM

http://cointelegraph.com/news/115510/worlds-first-dapi-decentralized-application-programming-interface

Cool! Cool
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October 29, 2015, 10:48:18 PM

just floating a photo of a slide with no context and some scattered hints in forums doesn't cut it.

Sounds like you kinda missed this:

Evan Duffield Explains Dash Technology and Announces Evolution at Bitcoin Wednesday

No, I saw it. But it didn't really add much to the photo we had already seen. There were a couple of hints in the QA video, if you had the patience to sit through it, but nothing I'd call substantial

No there is nothing substantial, well, no real explanation, but that's because it's secret.  Why?  Protecting first mover's advantage.  I suspect that in January hysteria will brake lose.  If  you think we have trolls now, wait until then!  LOL.

Anyway, We all have to wait to know what's happening, and us cultists will do so dutifully because we trust Evan.  This is not trustless.  Dash centers around our core developers.  Obviously, they know what's going on, and they seem to think it's doable, and they've shown themselves to be intelligent and very bright.  So yah, need to evaluate, has Evan come through before?  Yes, some things he dropped like 2FA and MN blinding because even back then, he said he had an idea for a better way.  That idea turned into Evolution.  So there seems to be good reason for not coming through on those two items.  Why waste effort?

So yah, I trust Evan, so do a lot of us cultists.  It's been exciting and amazing to watch this coin get better and better.  Always something new around the corner.  No wonder we're cultists!  Best cult to be in here Smiley

Another proud lifetime Dash Foundation member Smiley My TanteStefana account was hacked, Beware trading
"You'll never reach your destination if you stop to throw stones at every dog that barks."
Sir Winston Churchill  BTC: 12pu5nMDPEyUGu3HTbnUB5zY5RG65EQE5d
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October 29, 2015, 10:48:50 PM

Check out the charts today.  Dash just jumped at the same time BTC jumped.  Even LTC and some of the other alts enjoyed a boost.
Maybe the reaction to the FED not raising rates again.  Tick, Tick, Tick, how long can they push the debt bubble out...

http://www.maxkeiser.com/2015/10/catastrophe-on-all-fronts-there-is-no-recovery/
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October 29, 2015, 10:49:39 PM

Well...for currencies besides Dash the risk is somewhat reduced by the fact that the effects of such a backdoor can immediately be observed, whereas with Dash the "spork" model means that an exploit can be hidden away and only activated at a later stage, or the network can be remotely forked by anyone who holds the spork key.

BTW: the effects of the backdoor can be observed in both cases when it is used, and not any earlier. So there is really no difference in that regard. The forking is of course possible, but that is easily observable, too, or am I missing something?
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October 29, 2015, 10:52:06 PM

...
Paper wallets or usb sticks? Nah InstantX to people in the crowd. Preferably to their phones. Boom.
great idea but do we have a mobile wallet that supports instanTX?


By then hopefully..Problem with that idea is getting their addresses. Spose they could just skype/email them to him.. but seems clunky. First 10 messaged addresses from the room gets 10 dash!

Maybe NFC business cards? Anyone that's met the Dash reps face to face would get a random amount then regardless of where they where, not sure if they could hold a wallet file though.

Curious about the trolls methods? http://pastebin.com/irj4Fyd5
Manipulation of public discussion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bYAQ-ZZtEU
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October 29, 2015, 10:52:33 PM
Last edit: October 29, 2015, 11:06:50 PM by toknormal


If you can't understand the implications of what I said then it would behove you to discuss it with me, rather than insulting me.

What if we buy you a case of beer with blockchain budget proposal ? (un-sporked of course. You could do the taste test). I for one may have insulted you by suggesting you used a Sinclair Spectrum for which I apologise ( - that might have been agesist of me  Wink  )

All the same, setting aside the inflammatory rhetoric on both sides, you raise some useful points. The Spork is a powerful and appropriate tool for this project and code transparency is a a necessary security priority. They need to be reconciled.

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October 29, 2015, 10:56:43 PM

Well...for currencies besides Dash the risk is somewhat reduced by the fact that the effects of such a backdoor can immediately be observed, whereas with Dash the "spork" model means that an exploit can be hidden away and only activated at a later stage, or the network can be remotely forked by anyone who holds the spork key.

Wrong.

The spork is merely a secondary lever, not a magical "activate terrible code"-button. A malicious Monero developer for example could implement "underhanded code" into your official GUI-wallet release (you know, in 2045 or so when it's finished) with the simple instruction of having it activate when certain conditions are met, like a date, a block height, a difficulty level, even a certain transaction amount or a combination of any of these conditions. Heck, for all I care he could program his own spork as underhanded code into your release and create the same exact scenario you just tried to reduce onto DASH.

As you can see, your central argument has been easily refuted, making Dash just as vulnerable to that method as any other crypto. Not more, as you tried to construct. Nice try though.

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