[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[RenegadeMan]

So I'd like to address some of the earlier posts.

First off, to those that felt it necessary to make puerile comments about me, ad hominem attacks weaken your premise. I understand it's hard to see the wood for the trees, but honestly, get over yourselves. You aren't beyond reproach (far from it), and all of you clearly lack the humility and wherewithal to know what you don't know. Shooting the messenger doesn't make you right, it just makes you ignorant. Stating that you are ignorant is not "FUD", it's a statement of fact, but the good news is that ignorance is a state you can escape from.

Now, it's important to understand why this "spork" nonsense is so fundamentally broken. I've seen arguments centred around the "many-eyes" principle of FOSS, and some based on deterministic builds (which is an idiotic argument, and completely misses the point, so I won't be addressing it).

I know that for many of you this is your first open-source project, and your first exposure to the development of security software of any kind, and so you may be unfamiliar with thinking adversarially. You may think that merely because a handful of others glance at the code that it magically makes it secure, but that is not the case. Open-source software i just at risk as closed-source software, except that you're not paying known entities to review the code. Neither approach is a magic bullet.

So how could a backdoor be hidden in the code? If you've ever seen the International Obfuscated C Code Contest you'll know that it is reasonably trivial to make code nearly impossible to read and grok. But have you ever heard of the Underhanded C Contest? If you're familiar with C then I encourage you to take a look at some of the past entries.

The long and the short of it is that it is not unheard of, or particularly difficult, for an obfuscated back door to be slipped into open-source code. But hey - this is a risk in Bitcoin and Monero and other cryptocurrencies, so Dash is fine, right??? Well...for currencies besides Dash the risk is somewhat reduced by the fact that the effects of such a backdoor can immediately be observed, whereas with Dash the "spork" model means that an exploit can be hidden away and only activated at a later stage, or the network can be remotely forked by anyone who holds the spork key.

My conversation with dEBRUYNE was neither secret (it was in a public channel) nor was it incorrect. If you can't understand the implications of what I said then it would behove you to discuss it with me, rather than insulting me.

Fluff...mate..."it's hard to see the wood for the trees"....mmm, yup, too true.

What's simply astounding (apart from your name) is just how many of you Monero people are completely and utterly unclear on what "money" is and what properties it needs to function properly in human society. You're all so consumed by the technobabble of crypto (and how Monero's technobabble is sooooo superior to everyone else's technobabble) you're completely unaware that when the serious investors finally come to crypto, it's not academic puritan crypto-nirvana-tech they're going to look at. It's the overall package of how a crypto currency has been built and whether its properties are aligned to 5000+ years of agreed principles on what makes money...money.

So rather than getting all twisted and upset, given you're here in the Dash thread and we're suffering from the constant buffoonary and shear mindlessnes of the dnaleor's of this world who are so so terribly threatened by Dash (and who are clearly so far out of their depth they're virtually walking around in a forest looking for a tree), why don't you elaborate for us on how Monero's monetary principle's are designed for ultimate acceptance by serious investors in the financial sphere? Start off with how an obscured blockchain facilitates XMR being a base-asset and society being able to trust the supposed monetary units of XMR when there's no way of confirming what amounts are sitting in specific addresses. Then move on to how the XMR blockchain can be verified and trusted.

[Bridgewater]

...
Paper wallets or usb sticks? Nah InstantX to people in the crowd. Preferably to their phones. Boom.

great idea but do we have a mobile wallet that supports instanTX?

By then hopefully..Problem with that idea is getting their addresses. Spose they could just skype/email them to him.. but seems clunky. First 10 messaged addresses from the room gets 10 dash!

Maybe NFC business cards? Anyone that's met the Dash reps face to face would get a random amount then regardless of where they where, not sure if they could hold a wallet file though.

This is the only working NFC wallet that I know of: www.ledgerwallet.com/products/6-ledger-unplugged. 

I would definitely vote for a budget to get Ledger/btchip to add Dash support.  That would simultanously add compatibility to at least 3 different low-cost hardware wallet options (the NFC card, the rotating usb stick, and the cheap plastic HW.1) for strategic distribution to key people at serious conferences.

[stan.distortion]

...
I would definitely vote for a budget to get Ledger/btchip to add Dash support.  That would simultanously add compatibility to at least 3 different low-cost hardware wallet options (the NFC card, the rotating usb stick, and the cheap plastic HW.1) for strategic distribution to key people at serious conferences.

Ooh, is that feasible? I'd definitely +1 that.

[AlexGR]

Don't start telling people about your idea (and try to get them to buy/pump your coin) before even releasing a paper.

FUD attack vectors:

If dev speaks of the plans => he is a pumper
If dev doesn't speak of the plans => he is profiting from inside knowledge when there will be the eventual release, that only he knows about, leaving investors in the dark so he can acquire himself and the whales and then dump on the late-arrivals of investors, etc etc.

Likewise

If dev discloses market moves about his coins => he is a pumper/dumper based on what he discloses
If dev doesn't disclose market moves about his coins => he is a pumper/dumper based on inside knowledge

If coin name = darkcoin => "haha what a ridiculous name, who will adopt a coin like DARKcoin"
If coin name = changed from darkcoin=> "it was rebranded to wash the scam"

If code comes first, papers later => "where is the paper? This can't be serious without a paper"
If paper comes first, code later => "a fuckin paper? this is a pump based on vaporware"

No matter what is done, the trolls will always find something problematic

[RenegadeMan]

Don't start telling people about your idea (and try to get them to buy/pump your coin) before even releasing a paper.

FUD attack vectors:

If dev speaks of the plans => he is a pumper
If dev doesn't speak of the plans => he is profiting from inside knowledge when there will be the eventual release, that only he knows about, leaving investors in the dark so he can acquire himself and the whales and then dump on the late-arrivals of investors, etc etc.

Likewise

If dev discloses market moves about his coins => he is a pumper/dumper based on what he discloses
If dev doesn't disclose market moves about his coins => he is a pumper/dumper based on inside knowledge

If coin name = darkcoin => "haha what a ridiculous name, who will adopt a coin like DARKcoin"
If coin name = changed from darkcoin=> "it was rebranded to wash the scam"

No matter what is done, the trolls will always find something problematic

Yep.

The bottom line is these Monero buffoons CANNOT keep away from this thread as they're just wobbled to pieces by Dash (they're "dashed by Dash" Ha!) and it gets into them and knots them up into a terrible sweaty, worrisome, desperation that forces them to take all manner of stupid actions (that image of dnaleor handing out Dash-attack flyers at Bitcoin Wednesday will go down in history as one of the most extreme examples of a completely and utterly clueless individual openly demonstrating his cluelessness for all and sundry to sit there in gobsmacked awe that someone would stoop to such desperation). Taking every aspect of this project and flipping it into a negative is their standard MO.

I just wish they'd focus on their own project and leave us alone. I'd actually take an interest in Monero if the supposed "devs" (and once again, I'm using that term ever so loosely) actually focused on their work and quit trolling. I simply can't believe that there are people so completely and utterly unaware of how pathetic and deplorable they look coming into this thread and trying to put rubbish on this project and how totally off-putting it is to any outsider. Monero is doomed while ever these people are involved. Even if they all stopped today, it will take years for the reputational damage to be undone and it's probably too late for them.  

[afbitcoins]

I just wish they'd focus on their own project and leave us alone. I'd actually take an interest in Monero if the supposed "devs" (and once again, I'm using that term ever so loosely) actually focused on their work and quit trolling.

Yup I find the Monero presence in this thread to be very negative. Far from leading me to Monero these actions are putting me off. 

[Bridgewater]

...
I would definitely vote for a budget to get Ledger/btchip to add Dash support.  That would simultanously add compatibility to at least 3 different low-cost hardware wallet options (the NFC card, the rotating usb stick, and the cheap plastic HW.1) for strategic distribution to key people at serious conferences.

Ooh, is that feasible? I'd definitely +1 that.

It's actually very feasible.

The Ledger Wallet already supports altcoins as long as they support BIP39 and BIP 32 (see https://ledgerhq.github.io/btchip-doc/bitcoin-technical.html). No changes to the chip or the firmware are required.

The latest version of electrum already has built-in support for ledger/btchip. Since we now have a working basic version of Electrum for Dash, we could easily get Trezor, keepkey and ledger working on it.  As for the NFC ledgerwallet, I suspect is is currently only usable with Mycellium, so we would have to get them to add Dash support, or add support for it into our own Dash-specific mobile wallet. 

[AlexGR]

Yep.

The bottom line is these Monero buffoons CANNOT keep away from this thread as they're just wobbled to pieces by Dash (they're "dashed by Dash" Ha!) and it gets into them and knots them up into a terrible sweaty, worrisome, desperation that forces them to take all manner of stupid actions (that image of dnaleor handing out Dash-attack flyers at Bitcoin Wednesday will go down in history as one of the most extreme examples of a completely and utterly clueless individual openly demonstrating his cluelessness for all and sundry to sit there in gobsmacked awe that someone would stoop to such desperation). Taking every aspect of this project and flipping it into a negative is their standard MO.

I just wish they'd focus on their own project and leave us alone. I'd actually take an interest in Monero if the supposed "devs" (and once again, I'm using that term ever so loosely) actually focused on their work and quit trolling. I simply can't believe that there are people so completely and utterly unaware of how pathetic and deplorable they look coming into this thread and trying to put rubbish on this project and how totally off-putting it is to any outsider. Monero is doomed while ever these people are involved. Even if they all stopped today, it will take years for the reputational damage to be undone and it's probably too late for them.  

I have the tendency to be well diversified in terms of anonymous coins, because I believe in the anonymous market in general, but I cut my position in Monero significantly due to their actions and what they imply in terms of actual potential.

If you are after your "opponents" with every dirty trick in the book, then it only means you do not *really* believe you can excel with your own means / abilities. Otherwise you wouldn't do this kind of stuff. Flyers against dash? Seriously? This lack in self-trust is a bad recipe for going forward. I would extend this rationale further but I still hold some XMR - and not necessarily by choice, but rather due to the price being quite low to dump. If it ever goes back up, I'll dump it for dash. It's nothing major to move the market btw, so I'm not telling it as a threat or something. I'm just too tired of this situation and I'll also save myself some time reading multiple threads. If people want battle lines drawn and all bridges cut between XMR, DASH etc, so be it. It wasn't my choice. IF they want a toxic environment they'll be left alone to suffocate in this toxicity.

Interestingly, there were much easier and technical ways to attack DASH, even much cheaper than paying trolls, but they didn't even have the brain to do this.

[toknormal]

Don't start telling people about your idea (and try to get them to buy/pump your coin) before even releasing a paper.

FUD attack vectors:

If dev speaks of the plans => he is a pumper
If dev doesn't speak of the plans => he is profiting from inside knowledge when there will be the eventual release, that only he knows about, leaving investors in the dark so he can acquire himself and the whales and then dump on the late-arrivals of investors, etc etc.

Likewise

If dev discloses market moves about his coins => he is a pumper/dumper based on what he discloses
If dev doesn't disclose market moves about his coins => he is a pumper/dumper based on inside knowledge

If coin name = darkcoin => "haha what a ridiculous name, who will adopt a coin like DARKcoin"
If coin name = changed from darkcoin=> "it was rebranded to wash the scam"

If code comes first, papers later => "where is the paper? This can't be serious without a paper"
If paper comes first, code later => "a fuckin paper? this is a pump based on vaporware"

No matter what is done, the trolls will always find something problematic

LMAO !  Great post.

[s1gs3gv]

sigh …  .00757 … where does it end ?

[coins101]

.....fundamentally broken....

So brake the fucking thing and lets get this over with.

What, can't break it?

Then you don't actually have a point as such. Your talk is cheap.

Your number one weapon is not a tool with flyers, it's the ability to just crack wide open this project with nothing more than a keyboard.

[Lebubar]

My conclusion about all this:

Q:Two persons from DASH meet together, what did they talk about? ....
A:DASH.

Q:Two persons from Monero meet together, what did they talk about? ....
A:DASH!

I think we are good...

[AzzAz]

Every time I click to read the next page my place is lost due to incessant deletions of past content. If the goal of deleting old or unnecessary posts is to make the thread easier to read, then it has been a complete failure.

People may stop reading altogether if they have no stable point of reference from which to start or continue their reading.  

It is like if you're in the middle of a long novel and when you turn the page you're suddenly reading the final chapter and have spoiled the ending.  Now if you still want to go back and dutifully continue reading from your prior position, you must search through every page to find it, spoiling the rest of the content in the process.  Who wants to read backwards!?

That goes this way:
Trolls do some trolling, than ppl react and respond. Then trolls report those responses to moderator and he deletes, often with trolling.
So pls don't respond to trolls in a way they want you to
Bigr please can you repeat your nice post about paid/known trolls?

[iCEBREAKER]

These proposals are getting bolder and bolder, i love it.

"3rd Latin American Bitcoin Conference 2015 - Mexico City - $3.808.00


Beyond that we (Daniel and I) are requesting that our flights and hotel be refunded as follows:
Evans flight cost: $564
Daniels flight cost: $644
Hotel cost will be approximately $150 a night for each of us, totally $900.


The North American Bitcoin Conference - BTC Miami - $4160.00

Another recent announcement was made for our appearance at BTC Miami on January 26th! This is going to be our platform for officially showing a prototype and much more information about work on Dash Evolution.

We (Daniel and I) request that our flights and hotel costs be refunded as follows:
Evan’s flight cost: $350
Daniel’s flight cost: $610
Hotel cost will be approximately $200 a night for each of us, totaling $1200"

If i was Evan i would go straight for a Maserati proposal in December. I mean, he's already traveling for free all around the world thanks to the delusioned bagholders. Why not more ? Maybe some apartaments all over the world so he could avoid the hotel fees ? Think about it...

Anyways,

#REKTosaurus Mexico first ?

How nice that Evan & Friends can use Dash as their own personal slush fund and piggy bank.   

Perhaps Expensify can have a feature where expenses, instead of being reimburse through legitimate means, are payed off via the automated launch of an instamined scam-coin.

Still under 100 BTC in bids. The market does not like the uncertainty created by potentially unlimited expenditures being authorized via votes weighted in favor of instamining devs.

[moocowmoo]

self-bump for visibility in the deep, wide sea of troll...

November 2015 Budget Proposal

https://dashtalk.org/threads/november-2015-budget-proposal.6507/

Linux users, cast your votes easily (and securely!) with dashman!



https://github.com/moocowmoo/dashman

Code:

git clone https://github.com/moocowmoo/dashman.git
dashman/dashman vote

So far, only 16% of you masternode owners have voted on Novembers proposals.

No excuses, use my script! It doesn't get any easier!

[RenegadeMan]

My conclusion about all this:

Q:Two persons from DASH meet together, what did they talk about? ....
A:DASH.

Q:Two persons from Monero meet together, what did they talk about? ....
A:DASH!

I think we are good...

One of the two DASH people chatting has his concentration broken for a moment by something tickling his ankle. He looks down then slowly up again to see the two Monero people standing a stones throw away peering over to see if their latest attack weapon "FluffyPuppy" is having an impact.....

[toknormal]

I have the tendency to be well diversified in terms of anonymous coins, because I believe in the anonymous market in general, but I cut my position in Monero significantly due to their actions and what they imply in terms of actual potential.

Some people might find this hard to believe, but I was a Monero early adopter. Bought a load on the old Cryptonote exchange when it first opened.

As I remember I offloaded most of it around 0.009 which is kind of inconceivable by today's standards (I think iCEBREAKER's now carrying my old bags actually).

It was ok while it was on the exchange - using it on the blockchain was when I had my "Road to Damascus" experience. Making something almost impossible to use & verify due to complete blockchain obscurity kind of feels like someone making you wear boxing gloves to use a sewing needle in the name of 'protecting your fingers'  

Each to their own.

[stealth923]

My conclusion about all this:

Q:Two persons from DASH meet together, what did they talk about? ....
A:DASH.

Q:Two persons from Monero meet together, what did they talk about? ....
A:DASH!

I think we are good...

ROFL - this is gold but so true.

[MasterMined710]

sigh …  .00757 … where does it end ?

the road goes on forever and the party never ends 
https://youtu.be/v3zSp_uhjcI

[moocowmoo]

Every time I click to read the next page my place is lost due to incessant deletions of past content. If the goal of deleting old or unnecessary posts is to make the thread easier to read, then it has been a complete failure.

I can't offer a suggestion for browsing historic posts, but I keep this bookmark in my bookmarks bar to always take me to the new (unread) posts:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.new#new

HTH