[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the sooner we get off the Monero exchange the better we'll be. What's wrong with Bittrex? I would like to see Dashcurex succeed when they implement InstantX and on-site BTC deposits/withdrawals...

[qwizzie]

tungfa !!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1282053.0
ALTCOIN ONLY Exchange Development

Digital Currency World is a brand new central resource for digital currencies and I'm looking to deliver content about coins, tech and people in the industry. It will be a FREE digital magazine, downloadable from the website and also through Amazon. The first issue is due to be out in January 2016. Send anything you want to press@digital-currency-world.com to feature. Now is a transitional time where the altcoin community, specifically, needs to establish a real strength and work together and help each other be successful as one big team and community.

Could be a good opportunity to send in an article about Dash Evolution

It's also important to start engaging with the public to give them the information they need to start investing small amounts of money into altcoins, but first we need to take steps to become self-regulated, and established a number of rules, practices to ensure that altcoin development is for long term benefit to people but ALSO to ensuring that the system is able to create and fund jobs, after all dirsputing the banking industry will lose jobs, so its our responsibility to ensure we move forward with the aim of growing practically and with that in mind.

I'm also interested in establishing an altcoin ONLY exchange for the following reasons;

-- many altcoins that people have invested money in are no longer supported or developed and not available to trade
-- exchanges like Bittrex remove coins that have little trading activity, this is against the benefit of the altcoin community
-- the prices of altcoins are being maniuplated unfairly so that people may earn more bitcoins at the detriment of altcoin enthusiasts and investors

I'm also interested in establishing a "central team" to take on development and maintenance/management of some of the digital currencies that have been created (and dropped) so that the altcoin movement can grow and re-establish older coins. This is not for immediate or trading profit, but to establish a long term altcoin community, for example;

-- if there was an exchange where donations, for example in USD, GBP or Euro were made then over time this would provide capital backing
-- capital backing would be comparable to all the coins and quantities within the exchange
-- withdrawels would not be enabled as it would be a community long term effort to create wealth in the altcoin environment (until such time everything was regulated and accepted by banks)

It's become pretty terrible, that exchanges like Cryptsy have many coins in maintenance mode, and Bittrex remove coins based on low trade volume (e.g. they arent making enough BTC).
So my idea is to remove BTC completely from the trading system altogether at least for the time being.

(By the way, I was the one who launched GoldBars GBS way back in Jan-Mar 2014 (Virtual Gold - twitter.com/virtual_gold)) so actually there is an alternative opportunity to add some 'tangibility' to the altcoin landscape. I was also the one who did the community takeover of Analcoin (and now changing to Aprilcoin XAP), and also the one that has created Cura - Currency Of Light on the multichain Blockchain - www.currencyoflight.com plus a few other things.

Maybe we could implement an exchange that had coin values against the gold price (e.g. goldbars GBS/Virtual Gold) and therefore other currencies (until such time that a value was agreed with Virtual Gold or indeed Currency Of Light which would give fantastic tangibility to potentially thousands of digital currencies.

I would also like the opportunity to create "altcoin derivatives" on the multichain private blockchain as assets (this would either be as a back up plan in case altcoin values in the Bitcoin economy plummet) or to create new wealth through "mirrored coins". A fixed amount of units would be created as an asset in this new digital economy. So please email if you are a coin dev (press@digital-currency-world.com) so I have your communities permission to do this.

sounds interesting, a new altcoin-only exchange...

[Solarminer]

yr missing the localbitcoin market that the third tier will provide, the fiat/crypto transactions between users that can be initiated with messages...

qwizzie --> msg --> Otoh : interested in converting EUR to Dash ?
(as example)

These local bitcoin trades between users will also need to be rated / commented so in the end we can create our own internal trusted (build up of trust but also with multisig ?) fiat/crypto supply and demand
and not be dependent on external parties like exchanges..

You could essentially use this to have fiat converters right off the bat (albeit without the built-in reputation system yet)

This is possible, but if it is linked to a person doing the exchange the gov't will cry for KYC stuff.  So decentralized is the way to go.  Reputation system means identities, possible attack vectors.

The openbazzar model may work.  With selling a good the seller sends 1x the transaction amount and buyer sends 2x the transaction amount.  If the product ships and is acceptable the buyer gets 1x back and seller gets 2x back.  If not successful buyer gets the 1x back and the remaining goes to a dispute.  Both buyer and seller risk the same amount(2x product cost or 1x + product) and are motivated to complete the sale.

With an exchange, maybe the Dash seller puts up 2x and buyer puts up 1x the transaction in Dash in escrow.  The buyer sends 1x in fiat(or says he does).  Once the fiat clears 1x from the seller is sent to the buyer and the buyer gets the 1x in Dash escrow back.  The seller also gets his remaining 1x back.  If the buyer doesn't send the fiat transaction, the seller gets the 1.5x back and the buyer get .5x back in Dash.  1x of the escrow goes into resolution that both buyer and seller need to come to an agreement before it is released.  If no agreement both lose .5x of the transaction.  Honesty works best when there is an economic incentive for both parties.  A rating system in this type of transaction is irrelevant.

[ddink7]

http://gizmodo.com/you-can-now-pay-at-wal-mart-using-your-mobile-1747267405

We're getting there. In the last year, we have seen Apple Pay, Samsung Pay, Android Pay, Google Wallet, and now Walmart Pay. All these companies are blazing the trail for us by getting people interested in paying with mobile. Pretty soon there will be so damn many "Pay" apps that people are going to be looking for a single, cross-platform (and cross-merchant) app: like Dash.

[BrainShutdown]

The need for distributed SPV  and DAPI implementations of contracts and multisig is clear and should be a priority IMHO.

Maybe some kind of alias is needed for a merchant to be visible (ie. no more ugly pubkeys)

So lets imagine I am a merchant that wishes to implement dash payments. As I see it I would need to create a wallet first and should be like creating an HD wallet. Now I only need an SPV client connected to DAPI to monitor the transactions. Now I need to integrate with my billing/management software (this is very specific and out of Evolution - market oportunity for developers)

Then I need that my clients know where to send money (QR codes are the best thing we have now I guess), this is where some improvements could be made.

So the client now could pick is phone, scan the QR and hit PAY. InstantXly I get the payment confirmation in my register SPV'd machine with DAPI integration and that's it.

From the brick and mortar perspective I continue to fail to see the need for users/messages... but I'm probably missing something  

yr missing the localbitcoin market that the third tier will provide, the fiat/crypto transactions between users that can be initiated with messages...

qwizzie --> msg --> Otoh : interested in converting EUR to Dash ?
(as example)

These local bitcoin trades between users will also need to be rated / commented so in the end we can create our own internal trusted (build up of trust but also with multisig ?) fiat/crypto supply and demand
and not be dependent on external parties like exchanges..

selfsufficiency is the keyword here i guess

edit : could also be seen as an attempt to decouple from Bitcoin ?

I surely need to give this some more thought but I have some reservations on implementing chat and social network (likes / reputation) in the core. LocalDash makes a lot of sense but should not live in the core, it should be like a special SPV client that anyone can use and just takes advantage of the 2nd tier through the DAPI. DAPI would basically implement associations of entities with wallets, those entities could be anything, aliases, contacts, reputation, messages, fiat-dash transactions, etc  

We will see and I'm sure it will be massive  

[qwizzie]

The need for distributed SPV  and DAPI implementations of contracts and multisig is clear and should be a priority IMHO.

Maybe some kind of alias is needed for a merchant to be visible (ie. no more ugly pubkeys)

So lets imagine I am a merchant that wishes to implement dash payments. As I see it I would need to create a wallet first and should be like creating an HD wallet. Now I only need an SPV client connected to DAPI to monitor the transactions. Now I need to integrate with my billing/management software (this is very specific and out of Evolution - market oportunity for developers)

Then I need that my clients know where to send money (QR codes are the best thing we have now I guess), this is where some improvements could be made.

So the client now could pick is phone, scan the QR and hit PAY. InstantXly I get the payment confirmation in my register SPV'd machine with DAPI integration and that's it.

From the brick and mortar perspective I continue to fail to see the need for users/messages... but I'm probably missing something  

yr missing the localbitcoin market that the third tier will provide, the fiat/crypto transactions between users that can be initiated with messages...

qwizzie --> msg --> Otoh : interested in converting EUR to Dash ?
(as example)

These local bitcoin trades between users will also need to be rated / commented so in the end we can create our own internal trusted (build up of trust but also with multisig ?) fiat/crypto supply and demand
and not be dependent on external parties like exchanges..

selfsufficiency is the keyword here i guess

edit : could also be seen as an attempt to decouple from Bitcoin ?

I surely need to give this some more thought but I have some reservations on implementing chat and social network (likes / reputation) in the core. LocalDash makes a lot of sense but should not live in the core, it should be like a special SPV client that anyone can use and just takes advantage of the 2nd tier through the DAPI. DAPI would basically implement associations of entities with wallets, those entities could be anything, aliases, contacts, reputation, messages, fiat-dash transactions, etc  

We will see and I'm sure it will be massive  

i think we were all talking about the SPV client here ? (the darkwallet that is being molded into a Dash SPV client currently by Evan ? the so called prototype design that will eventually become part of the third tier ?)  
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13199478#msg13199478

[TanteStefana2]

Am I the only one who gets a little bit uneasy about the fungibility part lately? How is the priority currently beside all the other features? The sooner we get rid of this long darksend times, the better. When do you think the "separate paper" about Privacy & Fungibility is ready Evan? Thank you.

I'm currently looking at doing single layer DS through the DAPI implementation, which would also be blinded by network relay. DS is impenetrable at a single layer if it's blinded by the network. This would bring down mix times per 0 to 1000 dash to a few seconds on the network.  Also, it doesn't cause as much bloat of the network to keep the privacy and fungibility. I think it'll work well.

This is out of scope for the next prototype though, we want to create something super simple.

I was hoping you might have been looking to implement zk-SNARKs/zerocash as it looks very private and very fast.

I think there is one very important thing in my opinion, I think we should keep fungibility without recourse to obscurity.  I think this is one of the main differentiators in Dash, that we preserve the public blockchain for public audit while giving the users an option for privacy.  After speaking with many people from the industry during the show in Mexico I think this is a really good model. In crypto there are no counter parties so the fact that any user can verify the public ledger to see it is working correctly is really powerful and accomplishing user privacy while preserving this property is ideal in my opinion.

Improving all these aspects while staying compatible with Bitcoin gives everyone a sense of security and it will show more and more in terms of adoption as time goes by.

Just as if it came from Toknormal's mouth, LOL, and I'm very glad to hear this because indeed, it is what separates Dash from the crowd, and why I prefer this solution.

[Solarminer]

http://gizmodo.com/you-can-now-pay-at-wal-mart-using-your-mobile-1747267405

We're getting there. In the last year, we have seen Apple Pay, Samsung Pay, Android Pay, Google Wallet, and now Walmart Pay. All these companies are blazing the trail for us by getting people interested in paying with mobile. Pretty soon there will be so damn many "Pay" apps that people are going to be looking for a single, cross-platform (and cross-merchant) app: like Dash.

These guys are all not understanding what is possible or wanted.  No one wants to wait at the register so lets skip the register.  You can't do this with a credit card that will cost $.25/per item paid.  You can't do it with bitcoin - too slow.  Dash with IX is needed to make it all work.

Just scan the products with your phone and buy with a Dash app as you add them to your cart.  Gee who wouldn't want to gain 10% of a stores footprint that is currently registers.  How much infrastructure would be saved with this.  Do you really need to empty your cart to load it again, duh.  It might put a few register/bagging people out of work, oops.  Maybe the cart has a scale and confirms weight and what is paid via blockchain before you leave and sets off a manual check if it isn't right.  Or maybe you just run your cart over a scale.

[stan.distortion]

Load-sensitive shelves could work there too and would double up for checking the inventory is in the right place, add NFC and you can just pick up what you want and walk out the door. Scales and NFC at the door and it's double-checked and the hardware is all fairly cheap.

EDIT: NFC labelling can be pretty close to disposable prices too, certainly good for things over about $10. I think it's used a lot in some areas but I've never come across anything on the shelves here.

[Solarminer]

Load-sensitive shelves could work there too and would double up for checking the inventory is in the right place, add NFC and you can just pick up what you want and walk out the door. Scales and NFC at the door and it's double-checked and the hardware is all fairly cheap.

EDIT: NFC labelling can be pretty close to disposable prices too, certainly good for things over about $10. I think it's used a lot in some areas but I've never come across anything on the shelves here.

NFC labels need to be big enough for an antenna to pickup a signal and transmit it back.  There is a lot to these so it isn't going to be 0.01 cents anytime soon.  (Yeah for costlier items this would work well)  You need to scan a upc now, just do it with your phone.  Later a cart with scanners all over could pickup whatever you put in it.  Or just make the entire store a vending machine, send it your list and it uses air tubes to get your stuff and spit it into your trunk.

And then we call the store Dashco.  Only accept fungible currency Dash or cash.   

[stan.distortion]

Load-sensitive shelves could work there too and would double up for checking the inventory is in the right place, add NFC and you can just pick up what you want and walk out the door. Scales and NFC at the door and it's double-checked and the hardware is all fairly cheap.

EDIT: NFC labelling can be pretty close to disposable prices too, certainly good for things over about $10. I think it's used a lot in some areas but I've never come across anything on the shelves here.

NFC labels need to be big enough for an antenna to pickup a signal and transmit it back.  There is a lot to these so it isn't going to be 0.01 cents anytime soon.  (Yeah for costlier items this would work well)  You need to scan a upc now, just do it with your phone.  Later a cart with scanners all over could pickup whatever you put in it.  Or just make the entire store a vending machine, send it your list and it uses air tubes to get your stuff and spit it into your trunk.

That'd be a lot more efficient use of space, you could probably fit a whole supermarket in a two or three storey cornershop And get them delivered to your door, there was a lot of discussion on a distributed courier network a few years back and it still comes up from time to time. I'm sure there's something there with multisig and GPS data and it opens up a whole new industry, especially for the last-mile deliveries as they're really inefficient for the big carriers.

[stan.distortion]

Christ, those Craig Wright stories are all over the press, hadn't looked at the news alerts for a while and it's practically the only thing mentioned. Maybe too much tinfoil but it makes me suspicious when the press are so eager with a Bitcoin piece :/

[qwizzie]

Christ, those Craig Wright stories are all over the press, hadn't looked at the news alerts for a while and it's practically the only thing mentioned. Maybe too much tinfoil but it makes me suspicious when the press are so eager with a Bitcoin piece :/

yeah, we discussed it yesterday in here i think. Gizmodo has the most details on the story.
Weird thing is that Craig Wright has been soo long out of view and suddenly turns out to be
an early Bitcoin miner, has shitload of money, has a supercomputer ranking 15 in the top 500 list
and is currently in Iceland to build an even better super computer. Appearently he was using his super computer
to calculate Bitcoin scaling solutions and mentions something about an upcoming paper. Very strange all.  

http://gizmodo.com/this-australian-says-he-and-his-dead-friend-invented-bi-1746958692

And at an October 2015 panel discussion with fellow Bitcoin experts (including Nick Szabo, long suspected by many as being the real Satoshi), Wright is asked to introduce himself. “[I do] a whole lot of things that people don’t realize is possible yet,” he replied. When asked by the moderator for clarification, Wright said that “I’m a bit of everything...I have a masters of law...I have a masters in statistics, a couple doctorates, I forget actually what I’ve got these days.” When asked how he got involved in Bitcoin, Wright pauses before replying: “uhh, I’ve been involved in all of this for a long time...I try and stay...I keep my head down.”

That Bitcoin conference video is interesting to watch in above link.... funny thing is that the woman leading that panel has absolutely no clue who he is

http://www.wired.com/2015/12/bitcoins-creator-satoshi-nakamoto-is-probably-this-unknown-australian-genius/

this article has less details, reads more like a scandal article.

[BrainShutdown]

i think we were all talking about the SPV client here ? (the darkwallet that is being molded into a Dash SPV client currently by Evan ? the so called prototype design that will eventually become part of the third tier ?)  
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13199478#msg13199478

Yeah I was missing something, thanks 
Now gotta read some code 

[IMZ]

Hey, fellow krypto hoomernz! (Sorry, I'm not the replacement troll.)

I'm checkin' out https://www.bitebi9.com. There's a DASH/CNY pair there, but it's not listed among the exchanges under your Coinmarketcap entry.

Anyone using it? [Tee hee . . . looks exactly like Cryptsy!]

Mark

wow.... this is absolutely weird, its almost exact copy with different color  
i hope it last longer than chrypsy  

am checking with the chinese if they can access (that would be amazing)
i never head of them

Thanks, tungfa. Feel free to PM me if you find anything interesting.

And: any Australians here? My mob are active long-timer Oz krypto geeks. PM me.

And Merry and Happy to all Dash folk. 2016 'z gonna be a splendid year for us all.

Mark

[ddink7]

Christ, those Craig Wright stories are all over the press, hadn't looked at the news alerts for a while and it's practically the only thing mentioned. Maybe too much tinfoil but it makes me suspicious when the press are so eager with a Bitcoin piece :/

yeah, we discussed it yesterday in here i think. Gizmodo has the most details on the story.
Weird thing is that Craig Wright has been soo long out of view and suddenly turns out to be
an early Bitcoin miner, has shitload of money, has a supercomputer ranking 15 in the top 500 list
and is currently in Iceland to build an even better super computer. Appearently he was using his super computer
to calculate Bitcoin scaling solutions and mentions something about an upcoming paper. Very strange all.  

http://gizmodo.com/this-australian-says-he-and-his-dead-friend-invented-bi-1746958692

And at an October 2015 panel discussion with fellow Bitcoin experts (including Nick Szabo, long suspected by many as being the real Satoshi), Wright is asked to introduce himself. “[I do] a whole lot of things that people don’t realize is possible yet,” he replied. When asked by the moderator for clarification, Wright said that “I’m a bit of everything...I have a masters of law...I have a masters in statistics, a couple doctorates, I forget actually what I’ve got these days.” When asked how he got involved in Bitcoin, Wright pauses before replying: “uhh, I’ve been involved in all of this for a long time...I try and stay...I keep my head down.”

That Bitcoin conference video is interesting to watch in above link.... funny thing is that the woman leading that panel has absolutely no clue who he is

http://www.wired.com/2015/12/bitcoins-creator-satoshi-nakamoto-is-probably-this-unknown-australian-genius/

this article has less details, reads more like a scandal article.

Vice Motherboard proved that the PGP keys listed are faked. I'm very dubious at this point.

P.S. I have a theory that all the trolleros are actually just one person with 15 different sock puppets, and his internet is out due to bad weather.

[qwizzie]

Christ, those Craig Wright stories are all over the press, hadn't looked at the news alerts for a while and it's practically the only thing mentioned. Maybe too much tinfoil but it makes me suspicious when the press are so eager with a Bitcoin piece :/

yeah, we discussed it yesterday in here i think. Gizmodo has the most details on the story.
Weird thing is that Craig Wright has been soo long out of view and suddenly turns out to be
an early Bitcoin miner, has shitload of money, has a supercomputer ranking 15 in the top 500 list
and is currently in Iceland to build an even better super computer. Appearently he was using his super computer
to calculate Bitcoin scaling solutions and mentions something about an upcoming paper. Very strange all.  

http://gizmodo.com/this-australian-says-he-and-his-dead-friend-invented-bi-1746958692

And at an October 2015 panel discussion with fellow Bitcoin experts (including Nick Szabo, long suspected by many as being the real Satoshi), Wright is asked to introduce himself. “[I do] a whole lot of things that people don’t realize is possible yet,” he replied. When asked by the moderator for clarification, Wright said that “I’m a bit of everything...I have a masters of law...I have a masters in statistics, a couple doctorates, I forget actually what I’ve got these days.” When asked how he got involved in Bitcoin, Wright pauses before replying: “uhh, I’ve been involved in all of this for a long time...I try and stay...I keep my head down.”

That Bitcoin conference video is interesting to watch in above link.... funny thing is that the woman leading that panel has absolutely no clue who he is

http://www.wired.com/2015/12/bitcoins-creator-satoshi-nakamoto-is-probably-this-unknown-australian-genius/

this article has less details, reads more like a scandal article.

Vice Motherboard proved that the PGP keys listed are faked. I'm very dubious at this point.

P.S. I have a theory that all the trolleros are actually just one person with 15 different sock puppets, and his internet is out due to bad weather.

that would explain a lot  

[tungfa]

tx qwizzie
good tip back there 
i check it out

[IMZ]

Hey, fellow krypto hoomernz! (Sorry, I'm not the replacement troll.)

I'm checkin' out https://www.bitebi9.com. There's a DASH/CNY pair there, but it's not listed among the exchanges under your Coinmarketcap entry.

Anyone using it? [Tee hee . . . looks exactly like Cryptsy!]

Mark

wow.... this is absolutely weird, its almost exact copy with different color  
i hope it last longer than chrypsy  

am checking with the chinese if they can access (that would be amazing)
i never head of them

Last on this topic:

Check here: https://www.reddit.com/r/dogecoin/comments/3vc3au/cryptsy_is_starting_to_smell_real_bad

See the reference to bitebi9 being Cryptsy owned? I asked the guy. He claims that Cryptsy just emailed him to the effect that bitebi9 is owned by Cryptsy. Mysteriouser and mysteriouser!

Mark

[flailing Junk]

The openbazzar model may work.  With selling a good the seller sends 1x the transaction amount and buyer sends 2x the transaction amount.

Why not just open a micro payment channel both ways and and trade microbits until you reach the desired value?