Why do people in USA fear socialism so much?

[BlueTemplar]

(Sorry if this has been discussed before, too lazy now to read the whole 27 pages of the discussion.)

Can the Americans even define clearly what "socialism" is? From what I've seen, it's treated like some sort of imaginary devil, a synonym for the word "bad", and not like a specific and well-defined concept.

[1715028930]

1715028930

[cypher-punk]

if they did, foxnews would have to rewrite scripts, which is tedious.

[vampire]

(Sorry if this has been discussed before, too lazy now to read the whole 27 pages of the discussion.)

Can the Americans even define clearly what "socialism" is? From what I've seen, it's treated like some sort of imaginary devil, a synonym for the word "bad", and not like a specific and well-defined concept.

Can you define it? Since I am quiet sure that the true socialism doesn't include money.

[BlueTemplar]

Well, the only clear definitions I could find are that : capitalism = private property, socialism = state property, communism = no property. Which is of course not how most people tend to think about those notions.

[vampire]

Well, the only clear definitions I could find are that : capitalism = private property, socialism = state property, communism = no property. Which is of course not how most people tend to think about those notions.

You can't even properly define communism and socialism.

Socialism: resources are allocated according to the person's input
Communism: resources are allocated according the person's needs

Communism is statism, while socialism doesn't beed to be one.

Capitalism & Socialism aren't political systems. Communism is.

[Rassah]

In Soviet Russia, communism = state property, and all property = state property.

From my experience (including personal), it's just altruism gone bad. People with a socialist inclination think that people in general don't have time or resources to do things like maintain roads, check to make sure drugs and food are not contaminated, pay for school education, etc. So they think it's better to have some benevolent agency run by bureaucrats who can take care of these dump, helpless people. And, of course, that directly translated to capitalists being heartless bastards, because they just want to let the dumb helpless people starve and die on the streets.

For me, what helped change my opinion on the matter was being shown just how ineffective, and even counter-productive, those bureaucratic agencies were, combined with the realization that the simple retort of "The solution is not to get rid of government problems, but to fix them" is pointless, because thanks to the way government is organized, there IS no solution that can fix the problems.

[BlueTemplar]

I'm sorry, but why exactly do you think that your definition is more "proper" than mine?

[vampire]

I'm sorry, but why exactly do you think that your definition is more "proper" than mine?

That the only thing I had to prove. That you can't define it.

[myrkul]

I'm sorry, but why exactly do you think that your definition is more "proper" than mine?

That the only thing I had to prove. That you can't define it.

Times like these, I like to go to a trusted third party: Google.

so·cial·ism

noun /ˈsōSHəˌlizəm/ 

   1. A political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole

   2. Policy or practice based on this theory

   3. (in Marxist theory) A transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of communism

com·mu·nism

noun /ˈkämyəˌnizəm/ 

   1. A political theory derived from Karl Marx, advocating class war and leading to a society in which all property is publicly owned and each person works and is paid according to their abilities and needs

Na·tion·al So·cial·ism

noun

   1. The political doctrine of the Nazi Party of Germany

   2. A form of socialism featuring racism and expansionism and obedience to a strong leader

Just for funzies:

cap·i·tal·ism

noun /ˈkapətlˌizəm/ 

   1. An economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state

an·ar·chy

noun /ˈanərkē/ 

   1. A state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority
        - he must ensure public order in a country threatened with anarchy

   2. Absence of government and absolute freedom of the individual, regarded as a political ideal

Anarcho-capitalism
noun

   1. A libertarian political philosophy that advocates anarchy in the sense of the elimination of the state in favor of individual sovereignty in a free market.

(note, this definition was acquired from Wikipedia, not Google.)

OK, now that we have our definitions straight, carry on.

[BlueTemplar]

Thanks, myrkul.

I'm sorry, but why exactly do you think that your definition is more "proper" than mine?

That the only thing I had to prove. That you can't define it.

To what end?

[vampire]

To what end?

That most Europeans have no clue what socialism means.

[cypher-punk]

Na·tion·al So·cial·ism

noun

   1. The political doctrine of  [ the USA ]

   2. A form of socialism [for the rich and robber barons ] featuring racism [against black slaves] and expansionism [in the Phillipines] and obedience to a strong leader [ in an oval office ]

Hey, I just found an ambiguity there !!  

My definition is way more applicable!

[BlueTemplar]

To what end?

That most Europeans have no clue what socialism means.

I think that you didn't get my point : about how (some) Americans tend to project an undue amount of hate (and fear) at the word "socialism" without even being able to properly define the term. Whether Europeans have a clue or not about what that word means is besides the point. And not that (some of) the Europeans are better BTW, using "right-wing ultraliberal" like it's an insult...

Also, why are you assuming I'm European? I could be Middle-Eastern or Asian or Russian for all you know...

[vampire]

To what end?

That most Europeans have no clue what socialism means.

I think that you didn't get my point : about how (some) Americans tend to project an undue amount of hate (and fear) at the word "socialism" without even being able to properly define the term. Whether Europeans have a clue or not about what that word means is besides the point. And not that (some of) the Europeans are better BTW, using "right-wing ultraliberal" like it's an insult...

Also, why are you assuming I'm European? I could be Middle-Eastern or Asian or Russian for all you know...

Because Socialism as defined is never used. Even Soviet Union had money.

Americans fear the definition of socialism and the result of that socialism like Soviet Union.

PS: Russians are Europeans. And anyone can be an American, this isn't an ethnic group.

[cypher-punk]

PS: Russians are Europeans. And anyone can be an American, this isn't an ethnic group.

I doubt it. Socialists are un-American. 

[myrkul]

I'd say the socialism hate is perfectly warranted. People, especially Americans, like owning stuff.

PS: Russians are Asians. Most of Russia is in Asia.

[vampire]

I'd say the socialism hate is perfectly warranted. People, especially Americans, like owning stuff.

PS: Russians are Asians. Most of Russia is in Asia.

LOL. Most of the Russians are in the Europe. Siberia is too cold.

[cypher-punk]

I'd say the socialism hate is perfectly warranted. People, especially Americans, like owning stuff.

Like shitty health care plans. LOL

[vampire]

I'd say the socialism hate is perfectly warranted. People, especially Americans, like owning stuff.

Like shitty health care plans. LOL

In Soviet Union you had to bribe to get medical care. Otherwise it's like few years wait.

(true story)

[cypher-punk]

I'd say the socialism hate is perfectly warranted. People, especially Americans, like owning stuff.

Like shitty health care plans. LOL

In Soviet Union you had to bribe to get medical care. Otherwise it's like few years wait.

(true story)

According to "Sicko" Cuba is actually better than parts of the US when it comes to health care.