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Author Topic: [Guide] Dogie's Comprehensive Manufacturer Trustworthiness Guide [1st Feb 2016]  (Read 131477 times)
tracyhh
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June 11, 2014, 04:50:31 AM
Last edit: June 11, 2014, 06:47:10 AM by tracyhh
 #281



we don't want trouble against anyone,but seriously. a company like BA totally refused any refunds in a forced way no matter what reason the customer request...they just ignore refunds...that's really bad..and no any limited time for delivery just let you wait ..seems when they happy then they can sent you your ordet,if not,truly.according to their so called terms
if they failed and can't give you the products or any delayed.they think they should not responsible for that and that is customer's mistake invest in them...
guys. tell me if you will trust this company and buy products from them or not in the future?

it's really hard for our customer to use our right in this community..so we should unite and support each other..
this should not be the bitcoin world:allows cheating and no rules to this cheater..if the community allows these company like BA exist...no one will benefit at last even if BA...

besides,we, The BA customers, I stand out,warning everyone who plan to  consider to do business with this company and the boss(We will know him at last in someway),be very careful,they will totally not allow any refunds and promise or guarantee to any one..they are not confidence about their products and company...they may don't have the ability to do these business at all...because hardly any company which sell miner will totally refused refunds at all and even didn't dare to guarantee anything to their partner or customer...

we,The BA customers,I stand out, hoping the admin of this forum or other customers or anyone to help us despite we have taken other actions,your help are always helpful and thankful.the BA official even hardly to their official thread to talk and discuss with their customers...so I hope anyone can contact BA and their boss to tell them to acknowledge these problems and do as reall company do ..
and I suggest personally that admin can open a official thread to update the trust Rating like https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=456691   for every company here..so we can see who is the cheater...

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June 11, 2014, 08:01:17 AM
 #282

Nicely done... and needed...


I have to disagree in regards to KNC, they used to be a good company last year, but this years things have changed drastically and it can be seen in the forums.

KNC failed on their word not to miner over 5% of the customers hashing power.
KNC sent used and defective equipment to super jupiter customers and did not honor refunds for them.
KNC has a delay of 2 months or more on something that was guaranteed in the contract when the Batch 0, 1 and 2 where purchased, now the current contract offers no refunds.
KNC posts of their forum seem to get deleted, I had made a post on their forum, and a customer made a link to https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=601855.40  my post was deleted, and a message that person sent me was made unavailable by KNC.
KNC is late on delivery with the Neptunes.

Under those conditions I fail to see how KNC would be B rated, I would personally rate it D-.

At any time refunds could stop, I see no other reason for the delays, since the production on Neptunes was limited to 12000 for each batch, and based on a survey I the number of refund is about 30%, thats about 1080 Neptunes, we could safely assume a ballpark of 1000 Neptunes being refunded, over a 6 month period, thats about 8 Neptunes per day on average, how is it possible that they are not keeping up?

They are late, since on Batch 2 was promised a delivery on Q1/Q2 and a month later than batch 0 and 1, that makes the deadline for Batch 0 and 1 the end of May, and plan B is not taking effect.


My general advice for buying mining equipment:
1. Do not buy from a company that mines themselves, they are either a hardware vendor or a mining company, but not both.
2. Do not purchase on preorders, say no to preorders, that will hurt of all of us and goes against the spirit of Bitcoin.
3. Bitmain seems to be the only honest mining company so far which ships within 48 hours, but the problem is that they do not ROI, the S1 barely ROI's, and when bitcoin price went up and they could ROI, the miners price also went up making them not ROI by definition even with the coupon, it is a matter of using the calculator bitcoinwisdom or any calculator that considers the difficulty increase.
4. When doing mining calculations for ROI, always use a calculator that takes into consideration the difficulty increase in a period of about 10 days, historically the difficulty has increased as much as 30% percent if not more, it is safe to assume 15%, anything less you risk loosing money, nothing wrong with comparing mining calculators, if 2 calculators have the same input they should provide same output, if not, one of them is wrong.

I am very upset at KNC we trusted them and helped them get their business going only to be betrayed by them.

If you go to any mining site and only see preorders, stay away even if they deliver, it is not in our benefit, it is time we organize and support companies that help us, not the ones that betray us. There was a time in which preorders were sort of ok since this companies were starting out, but we all know know that turned out to be, now it is time based on principle to say no to pre-orders even if the deal looks good, principals are first, after all thats what got us to use Bitcoin in the first place for many of us, a matter of principals against currency corruption.

It is a matter of time until some of us get burned again with pre-orders and it will happen.

KNC to improve their rating back to  B or better would have to do this:
1. Would have to honor all refunds in an expedite way.
2. provide a solution to super jupiter customers.
3. get rid of their data center if they pretend to be a bitcoin hardware vendor, since that data center was built for them not us, plan B was an evil excuse to justify their actions, after all they offered the guarantee not to mine over 5% of the customers hash rate, well that 5% is so far off, that to compensate only 0% would work.

My prediction is that KNC will be the customers of their own neptunes, and when they are old they will be sold as "super neptunes", be very careful if you ever hear the word "super neptune" from them, the same for "super titans".


















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June 11, 2014, 09:57:42 AM
Last edit: June 11, 2014, 10:11:10 AM by ghcannon
 #283

BlackArrow is a major sinkhole with absolutely no communication effort, outright lying to their customers about absolutely everything.

Their specs have been totally missed. No stackable miners, no lcds, wifi's, no hosting, the hash-rent program is non-existant, miner hardware specifications with regards to consumption - totally off.

It's a big pile of chineese horse poo. Their flag product is absolutely nowhere in sight.

I should have converted the 10k USD I spent on their vaporware to 1 dollar bills and heat myself in the winter - it would have been far more efficient.

It's funny how I asked for immediate shipment using whatever method they can to get the low-spec machines running. And just as they were about to fulfil my order (or actually a small part of it) - BAM! They got their original design magically working and now will take 2-3 weeks to fulfil my order - absolute scam-fest.

Incompetent thieves, that in all probability are mining with our hardware.

Take what you will from this in the company score.

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June 11, 2014, 02:27:50 PM
 #284

BlackArrow is a major sinkhole with absolutely no communication effort, outright lying to their customers about absolutely everything.

Their specs have been totally missed. No stackable miners, no lcds, wifi's, no hosting, the hash-rent program is non-existant, miner hardware specifications with regards to consumption - totally off.

It's a big pile of chineese horse poo. Their flag product is absolutely nowhere in sight.

I should have converted the 10k USD I spent on their vaporware to 1 dollar bills and heat myself in the winter - it would have been far more efficient.

It's funny how I asked for immediate shipment using whatever method they can to get the low-spec machines running. And just as they were about to fulfil my order (or actually a small part of it) - BAM! They got their original design magically working and now will take 2-3 weeks to fulfil my order - absolute scam-fest.

Incompetent thieves, that in all probability are mining with our hardware.

Take what you will from this in the company score.



Absolutely, BA should be lower than Cointerra that's for sure.  At least Cointerra underdelivered and overpromised somewhat in time.

BA has nothing to show for the delay, no compensation(minion hosting???) for lost time and have not refunded anyone.  Missed every target date, everything that was supposed to set them apart from the competitors, total shitshow over there.

BA should definitely be lower than CT, VMC, Hashfast and should definitely be in the same breath as Butterfly Labs.

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June 11, 2014, 02:41:07 PM
 #285

BLACK ARROW should get a S.F. for super fast. because this rating thing is B.S.... wouldnt matter if u had a rceipt or tx id. who cares you just get whatever this guy picks feels like. as long as he gets his its A+. there is only anincentive to demote good companies and elevate those that pay out. please prove me wrong.
(You're on, and will stay on, my ignore list). You purchased from a scammer, then flame me because I won't reduce the rating of the legitimate company you thought you were buying from.

you didnt want to act like a man and even look at the tx id i provided, then when i put it in your face you said it was a scammer.. anything so you wouldnt have to break your obligations, its not a trustworthiness guide if you cant be contacted with tx id's.. and respond .... so this is a guide where tx id dont matter,, not much of a guide ...this guy cant addmit when he is wrong not much of a man to trust

Of course I did, and I even SHOWED YOU proof that you sent it to the scammer. Get over it, call your local law enforcement, the FBI or something. I'm not the person to make your booboo go away.

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June 11, 2014, 02:43:46 PM
 #286

Well as a friendly reminder i would like to remind dogie LA is now doing PRE-ORDER and promised to deliver ia 100Mhs scrypt miner in 5 months and they have not yet taped out.

Ok, I'll take the bait. Have you taped out and sent the details for manufacturing ?
tape out will be in 4-6 weeks. and get wafer more 4-6 weeks.
we can ship out miner 1-2 weeks after chipset arrived.

They always say "we shipped many million dollars of miners" for credibility. I think it's in dogie's best interest to prevent them saying "we can deliver in 5 months even with the fact that we have not yet taped out because we are backed by dogie's A rating"

My 2c

Whats the product code on this preordered product (which would jeopardise their A rating), and are you suggesting they're making their own chips, or waiting on someone else to make the chips?

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June 11, 2014, 02:45:30 PM
 #287

we don't want trouble against anyone,but seriously. a company like BA totally refused any refunds in a forced way no matter what reason the customer request...they just ignore refunds...that's really bad..and no any limited time for delivery just let you wait ..seems when they happy then they can sent you your ordet,if not,truly.according to their so called terms
if they failed and can't give you the products or any delayed.they think they should not responsible for that and that is customer's mistake invest in them...
guys. tell me if you will trust this company and buy products from them or not in the future?

it's really hard for our customer to use our right in this community..so we should unite and support each other..
this should not be the bitcoin world:allows cheating and no rules to this cheater..if the community allows these company like BA exist...no one will benefit at last even if BA...

besides,we, The BA customers, I stand out,warning everyone who plan to  consider to do business with this company and the boss(We will know him at last in someway),be very careful,they will totally not allow any refunds and promise or guarantee to any one..they are not confidence about their products and company...they may don't have the ability to do these business at all...because hardly any company which sell miner will totally refused refunds at all and even didn't dare to guarantee anything to their partner or customer...

we,The BA customers,I stand out, hoping the admin of this forum or other customers or anyone to help us despite we have taken other actions,your help are always helpful and thankful.the BA official even hardly to their official thread to talk and discuss with their customers...so I hope anyone can contact BA and their boss to tell them to acknowledge these problems and do as reall company do ..
and I suggest personally that admin can open a official thread to update the trust Rating like https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=456691   for every company here..so we can see who is the cheater...

I've said it before, they're rating is frozen pending two weeks. Then judgement will be dealt. Please don't post in size 15 or bold again...

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June 11, 2014, 02:48:57 PM
 #288

I have to disagree in regards to KNC...

At any time refunds could stop...

They are late, since on Batch 2 was promised a delivery on Q1/Q2 and a month later than batch 0 and 1, that makes the deadline for Batch 0 and 1 the end of May, and plan B is not taking effect.

But the refunds haven't stopped. I can't penalise a company for something that hasn't happened yet in the future.

B1 was still Q1/Q2, so as of yet they're still not late. Remember for their size, a B rating is pretty terrible.

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June 11, 2014, 03:36:43 PM
 #289

Well as a friendly reminder i would like to remind dogie LA is now doing PRE-ORDER and promised to deliver ia 100Mhs scrypt miner in 5 months and they have not yet taped out.

Ok, I'll take the bait. Have you taped out and sent the details for manufacturing ?
tape out will be in 4-6 weeks. and get wafer more 4-6 weeks.
we can ship out miner 1-2 weeks after chipset arrived.

They always say "we shipped many million dollars of miners" for credibility. I think it's in dogie's best interest to prevent them saying "we can deliver in 5 months even with the fact that we have not yet taped out because we are backed by dogie's A rating"

My 2c

Whats the product code on this preordered product (which would jeopardise their A rating), and are you suggesting they're making their own chips, or waiting on someone else to make the chips?

It's in their thread they're opening preorder for 100Mhs scrypt asic with their own chip.

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June 11, 2014, 04:35:29 PM
 #290

What about GAW miners? I get the impression that this company is one of the more reputable on the bitcoin market. There is nothing about them in the guide.


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June 11, 2014, 04:56:57 PM
 #291

What about GAW miners? I get the impression that this company is one of the more reputable on the bitcoin market. There is nothing about them in the guide.

Not sure if you noticed, but these are all Bitcoin miners, and this is a Bitcoin only hardware thread.

Emo, goth, alternative stuff go here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=67.0

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June 11, 2014, 05:26:24 PM
 #292

What about GAW miners? I get the impression that this company is one of the more reputable on the bitcoin market. There is nothing about them in the guide.

Not sure if you noticed, but these are all Bitcoin miners, and this is a Bitcoin only hardware thread.

Emo, goth, alternative stuff go here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=67.0
They're also not shipping yet.

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June 11, 2014, 05:32:27 PM
 #293

If you don't like how Dogie does his ratings... maybe we need more people doing the same thing here?

Just a thought. It seems like a lot of people think Dogie has some sort of motivation to twist the ratings. He, unlike most, is sticking to a methodology for the ratings. Maybe you need to do your own system and post it and compete with him. I am pretty sure there are better metrics available but who has the time and the focus of Dogie? If it were easy everyone would have a rating scale and posting.

How about giving him some suggestions and or evidence and leave out the personal witch hunt so he can rework the parameters for a better system?
What is the methodology used in the ratings, I didn't see any description in the post.
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June 11, 2014, 06:16:07 PM
 #294

If you don't like how Dogie does his ratings... maybe we need more people doing the same thing here?

Just a thought. It seems like a lot of people think Dogie has some sort of motivation to twist the ratings. He, unlike most, is sticking to a methodology for the ratings. Maybe you need to do your own system and post it and compete with him. I am pretty sure there are better metrics available but who has the time and the focus of Dogie? If it were easy everyone would have a rating scale and posting.

How about giving him some suggestions and or evidence and leave out the personal witch hunt so he can rework the parameters for a better system?
What is the methodology used in the ratings, I didn't see any description in the post.

The short version:

New company, starts at ~C+. Promotion criteria set out to advance. Repeated, within the bounds of sensibility and the tier ratings in the OP. Now must conform to no preorders for A [ignore Lightning ASIC for now].

May move to a numerical system in the future like the PSU guide, although it takes a LOT more time (5-10x) and goes out of date much quicker.

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June 12, 2014, 03:35:59 AM
 #295

BLACK ARROW should get a S.F. for super fast. because this rating thing is B.S.... wouldnt matter if u had a rceipt or tx id. who cares you just get whatever this guy picks feels like. as long as he gets his its A+. there is only anincentive to demote good companies and elevate those that pay out. please prove me wrong.
(You're on, and will stay on, my ignore list). You purchased from a scammer, then flame me because I won't reduce the rating of the legitimate company you thought you were buying from.

you didnt want to act like a man and even look at the tx id i provided, then when i put it in your face you said it was a scammer.. anything so you wouldnt have to break your obligations, its not a trustworthiness guide if you cant be contacted with tx id's.. and respond .... so this is a guide where tx id dont matter,, not much of a guide ...this guy cant addmit when he is wrong not much of a man to trust

Of course I did, and I even SHOWED YOU proof that you sent it to the scammer. Get over it, call your local law enforcement, the FBI or something. I'm not the person to make your booboo go away.

THE WHOLE POINT IS THAT IT WAS DONE ON THEIR WEBSITE... the scammer works there.... and no we have never talked about any sort of "proof" you just made that up, trust worthiness guide -F.... the only thing that matters is that the transaction originated from the website, contact made from the website, nothing was typed in or searched for, duh you would have to go to the website to look at the skype name to search for the skype name that you would need to talk to,... we already know someone gave out a bs wallet-- it happened from an employee and it was not dealt with, jack saw that it happened from an employee( so he changed the icons to prevent me from proving it further)... you say scammer like that means it wasnt from the website- you then decide what happend as well and lied about it on your own thread, just address the issue on how contact was made- through the website?
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June 12, 2014, 04:33:01 AM
 #296

would it be possible to contact skype, to prove the conversation happened from the website?
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June 12, 2014, 05:01:56 AM
 #297

Still blows my mind that Avalon has a B+  Huh
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June 12, 2014, 05:37:48 AM
 #298

I have to disagree in regards to KNC...

At any time refunds could stop...

They are late, since on Batch 2 was promised a delivery on Q1/Q2 and a month later than batch 0 and 1, that makes the deadline for Batch 0 and 1 the end of May, and plan B is not taking effect.

But the refunds haven't stopped. I can't penalise a company for something that hasn't happened yet in the future.

B1 was still Q1/Q2, so as of yet they're still not late. Remember for their size, a B rating is pretty terrible.

Yes they are late. they promised for B2 Q1/Q2, and it was promised that B2 would be delivered one month after B0/B1 so if you do the math they are late, for B0/1, or in other words B0/1  would be delivered one month before B2, if B2 is Q1/Q2, then B0/1 is Q1/Q2 -1 month, they are late according their own terms.
The last month for Q2 is June, minus a month for B0/1 and you have May, we are on June they are a month late.
Remember customers for B1 payed $13000 for a Neptune, it was for being delivered a month earlier than B2 which was $10000.
B1 was not Q1/Q2, it was Q1/Q2 - 1, B2 was Q1/Q2.

And as far as refund not having stopped, we do not know that, for practical purposes they have almost stopped since EU law allows only for 30 days delays, they are taking over 2 months on some cases, and when asked they reply "shortly", "soon", "sometime this week" which is misleading, as far as information of the refunds queue, there is absolutely no transparency,  they will not provide that information, the only info we have is what we see on this forum, on redit, and on the kncforum to some degree since they are deleting posts in regards refunds. What we do know is that the productions of Neptunes was limited and only Batches 0,1,2 are allowed refunds, customers on Batch 3 got burned on only on no refunds but only a 3 month warranty instead of the year, so there should not be a reason for such large delays, delays which exceed the legal limit, from a legal point of view it is like if refunds had stopped. I hope you are right and refunds do not stop, but the lack of transparency is painful.
A B is normally considered good, KNC is definitely not good.



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June 12, 2014, 05:41:52 AM
 #299

Best just give all the manufacturers except for Bitmaintech a Z rating Dogie and close the thread.

End your pain....

Support the two platforms essential to protecting the identities of whistleblowers. Both accept bitcoin donations.
https://globaleaks.org - GlobalLeaks ( btc: see http://goo.gl/D5wM0L )
http://goo.gl/sZg2RN  - SecureDrop: whistleblower submission system
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June 12, 2014, 06:30:00 AM
 #300

Best just give all the manufacturers except for Bitmaintech a Z rating Dogie and close the thread.

End your pain....
Bitmaintech isn't the only company that delivers from stock and they also had some problems.

I am selling in stock OneStringMiner boards, based on the Bitfury chips. Have a look here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=495536.0
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