[Guide] Dogie's Comprehensive Manufacturer Trustworthiness Guide [1st Feb 2016]

[dogie]

Did this thread get abandoned?

No, on my to do list, which is currently 3 pages long. Moving premises so incredibly busy atm.

[Meizirkki]

KnC Miner's grade needs to be re-evaluated. They no longer refund and have indeed horrendous problems with their latest gen. Not to mention they've failed to meet every single shipping deadline, from the first gen to addon cards to latest gen.

They're hardly worthy of C. Do the right thing and same some newbies from being scammed

[rodeoclownicp]

those are phony trust scores... post the tx id for your trust scores dogie

[bitgeek]

those are phony trust scores... post the tx id for your trust scores dogie

IMO these trust threads are are a great idea. We just need more updates.
Maybe you should ask someone else to manage it, just like it was done in the signature campaign overview thread.

[dogie]

those are phony trust scores... post the tx id for your trust scores dogie

IMO these trust threads are are a great idea. We just need more updates.
Maybe you should ask someone else to manage it, just like it was done in the signature campaign overview thread.

Its not that simple. This version is slow in updating because I'm currently overhauling things to make it all significantly better. Will go to a numerical system so I can't be flamed for giving XYZ company ABC score blah blah blah "you're biased you're not biased enough" blah blah blah.

And then it has to be iterated 10x.
And then it has to try and be rammed into forum code.
And then it has to fight with the image proxy.
Which then has to be formatted to work @ 1024 res monitors.
And then it has to be usable to update.
And then it has to be processed.
And then the companies have to be rated.
This takes time.

I may have to post a 'full' version on my site and run a cutdown version here because of the code limitations.

tldr, its being done.

[dogie]

edit: [removed old code fragment]

[dogie]

Okay. Need feedback on all aspects of the new system please.

[bbxx]

nice format

rockminer and btcgarden should be on the list

[DevonMiner]

Okay. Need feedback on all aspects of the new system please.

Nice job, I like it. Easy to read and well laid out. Thanks for your continued work on this thread, many find it very useful.

[jimmothy]

I agree it's a good idea to move towards a more mathematical system althpugh I'm not sure about size and ethics being variables.

What exactly is size and what kind of metric will you use for ethics?

[dogie]

I agree it's a good idea to move towards a more mathematical system althpugh I'm not sure about size and ethics being variables.

What exactly is size and what kind of metric will you use for ethics?

There needs to be one or two that can be fudgefactor'ed to take into account new companies. Ie a new company could tick all the boxes (small batch on in hand stock, not screw anyone over, deliver what they promise) and gain the same numerical rating as a company 100x their size. Ethics allows us to take into account things like potential premining, or super farms, or split manufacturing lines or general foul play.

Each of those categories will get a scorecard similar to what the current style has now for A-BFL so its clear whats going on. Typically the ethics one if not a 10 will be explained in the comments. In AM's case, they can't have a perfect score because of their own super farms competing on the network. Not maliciously, and fully disclosed though I may add.

Another example of ethics is Avalon. On the other criteria even as much as people want/ed me to, I wouldn't reduce their rating by much because they didn't fail in those areas. The addition of an ethics score allows the community's views to directly be integrated. There shouldn't be a long line of pissed off customers if a company hasn't done anything wrong, right?

[dogie]

New format is ready, ratings are done, just finishing off some formatting. It currently smashes the post character limit and there isn't a way I can reduce it while conforming to BBCode so I've asked Theymos to take a look.

In the meantime, are there any other companies people want to see? These are the active companies...

ASICMiner
Bitfury
Bitmain
SpondooliesTech
RockMiner
Yiazo
OneStringMiner
Technobit
BTCGarden
BitMine
Lightning ASIC
KNC Miner
CoinTerra
HashFast
Black Arrow
AMT
VMC
BFL

and inactive companies (either barebones or not at all):

ASIC Runner
Avalon
Big Picture Mining
Drillbit
NonceTech
Starfire X
Redhash

edit: [removed old code fragment]

[dogie]

Relaunch is now live, see the OP.

[jimmothy]

Relaunch is now live, see the OP.

Huge improvement.

Although I would have to disagree that btcgarden has ethics or quality issues. I've heard very little complaints and communication has been top notch.

Also I don't think bitmain should be 10/10 for ethics because they have their own megamine (same size as KNC) and some questionable ethics like selling heavily used hardware.

It might be a good idea to have two separate ratings for ethics and superfarming because some might not see self mining as being unethical (as long as they use their own time and money as well as stay far below 51%)

[dogie]

Relaunch is now live, see the OP.

Huge improvement.

Although I would have to disagree that btcgarden has ethics or quality issues. I've heard very little complaints and communication has been top notch.

Also I don't think bitmain should be 10/10 for ethics because they have their own megamine (same size as KNC) and some questionable ethics like selling heavily used hardware.

It might be a good idea to have two separate ratings for ethics and superfarming because some might not see self mining as being unethical (as long as they use their own time and money as well as stay far below 51%)

BTCGarden does have quality issues, but they also deny it (hence the unethical issues).

In bitmain's case its excluded because its never, ever impacted the customer deliveries as they only sell in batches, and deliver within their specified dates. They've also never ever specified the hardware is new, its hardware with a warranty. They aren't doing anything wrong there.

Its already separate, farm mining is highlighted with the legend.

[NotLambchop]

Hi dogie.  Looks awesome!  The only possible glitch i see is with how the variables are weighed.  For instance, a company being small detracts as many points as a company not shipping miners.  Oh, and the forum software grocks the...

Code:

[hr]

...tags, if that's useful.

[dogie]

Hi dogie.  Looks awesome!  The only possible glitch i see is with how the variables are weighed.  For instance, a company being small detracts as many points as a company not shipping miners.  Oh, and the forum software grocks the...

...tags, if that's useful.

It has to be that way or a brand new company yet to make mistakes is rated higher than the huge companies - that doesn't make any sense. They could have put in virtually no money, get a really high trustworthiness rating and then use it to steal preorder money. There has to be a criteria that looks at size and newness.

What do you mean with the hr tags? Looks fine to me.

[NotLambchop]

Hi, i just meant replacing the _______________ (_ _ _ _ _) with (quote message to see).

Regarding company size, it's simply a suggestion on my part.  If you feel size translates into trustworthiness, i have no evidence that it doesn't, but to me it seems to penalize small chip integrators.  Again, I defer to your opinion, I'm really glad you're maintaining this thread.  If I haven't thanked you before, thanks

[dogie]

Hi, i just meant replacing the _______________ (_ _ _ _ _) with (quote message to see).

Regarding company size, it's simply a suggestion on my part.  If you feel size translates into trustworthiness, i have no evidence that it doesn't, but to me it seems to penalize small chip integrators.  Again, I defer to your opinion, I'm really glad you're maintaining this thread.  If I haven't thanked you before, thanks

The ___s are structural spacing, tables are spastic as hell on SMF without the formatting options enabled. The table tries to collapse in to minimise width at all times.

Company y rocks up and says "look we have miners", sells 5 online. According to the rating system, they would achieve almost a perfect score. That doesn't make any sense, hence there needs to be a size metric.

[Pentax]

This new guide looks really good.  I love the composite scores.  that makes it really easy for people.

Black Arrow

Communication 4/10
Ethics 5/10



censoring information, which they do here and on their forum, should take that communications rating down.  they go through their self-moderated thread and delete information that may reflect poorly on them all the time and have been doing it for as long as I can remember.

Ethics?  from what I can see they have none.  an endless series of missed delivery dates, half truths if not outright lies, screwing people they refunded in bitcoin by refunding bitcoin originally sent after price had severely tumbled, a broken promise on price matching the competition at time of shipping(which is huge), a lack of fiat refunds- and more.  

I am unfortunately one of their pre-order customers and I've been watching this all along.  what is most glaringly missing from their operation, aside from the ability to effectively develop mining equipment, IMO, is ethics.  they're attempting to hide behind a TOS that seemingly conflicts with Hong Kong law, their answers, when/if you can get them, on support and via e-mail are not answers at all in many cases but further excuses, and we are seeing cases now where people have requested refunds and their miners are being shipped out anyhow.  their resellers are also looking to me to be getting desperate as they claim they are not getting refunds from BA either and are therefore being forced to refund out of pocket, which is leading to their attempting to deny refunds and ship to people that have requested refunds also, which will undoubtedly lead to lawsuits and further actions against them also.

these people have created a total nightmare for just about everyone that has chosen to do business with them on this latest round of product.

edit:  I'm not seeking in any way to debate with you Dogie.  this guide is a great thing for people done, from what I can tell, on your own time to attempt to help others.  please make your own decision on whether or not these things are relevant to your rating system.  you know more about what you're trying to do in the aggregate than I do, I think.