[Guide] Dogie's Comprehensive Manufacturer Trustworthiness Guide [1st Feb 2016]

[dogie]

ever heard of bitcrane? http://www.bitcrane.com/goods.php?id=1

Batch No: 1
Delivery: Within 3days from order confirmation

Yes, companies must ship quantity to customers first, which is what the ratings are based off:
http://goo.gl/skfx67

[Biffa]

Thanks for this list.  I'd argue with Bitmine: "Refund Issues? Some 5/10"

Bitmine has only made some token refunds to give people false hope.  The majority appear to not have received refunds:

http://www.bitminerefund.com

I know people after me in the queue have been refunded.  They are picking select users to refund as a stall tactic.  They've told many users on this forum they will be refunded "in 2 weeks", and we haven't been.  I've been told that 2 or three times now.  My refund was due May 5th. Many clients fall into the same category as this.

This falls into the category of:
"1/10   = Yes - refunds significantly delayed or not being processed at all. Includes stall tactics."

Some refunds have been paid, so that's the category they fit in to. I have no control over this, that's how the system works and it applies to everyone.

Don't look at refund sites like this. People rush to get submitted but will rarely go back to the site to say they've been refunded. They have refund issues, they've also refunded some people.

And yet KnC who have been refunding (albeit slowly) on a regular basis, for months, and in most cases in BTC to the benefit of the customer, don't rate a some?

[dogie]

Thanks for this list.  I'd argue with Bitmine: "Refund Issues? Some 5/10"

Bitmine has only made some token refunds to give people false hope.  The majority appear to not have received refunds:

http://www.bitminerefund.com

I know people after me in the queue have been refunded.  They are picking select users to refund as a stall tactic.  They've told many users on this forum they will be refunded "in 2 weeks", and we haven't been.  I've been told that 2 or three times now.  My refund was due May 5th. Many clients fall into the same category as this.

This falls into the category of:
"1/10   = Yes - refunds significantly delayed or not being processed at all. Includes stall tactics."

Some refunds have been paid, so that's the category they fit in to. I have no control over this, that's how the system works and it applies to everyone.

Don't look at refund sites like this. People rush to get submitted but will rarely go back to the site to say they've been refunded. They have refund issues, they've also refunded some people.

And yet KnC who have been refunding (albeit slowly) on a regular basis, for months, and in most cases in BTC to the benefit of the customer, don't rate a some?

KnC was punished further for using the Franken module swap as a delaying tactic from the BFL playbook in order to delay actually issuing refund and reducing the number of refunds due. That falls under delaying tactics.

[Chris_Sabian]

The numerical rating is much better than the previous rating.

As you said above, all of the ratings and certain for the ratings are posted for the public to view.  This is a much better system. 

[Biffa]

Thanks for this list.  I'd argue with Bitmine: "Refund Issues? Some 5/10"

Bitmine has only made some token refunds to give people false hope.  The majority appear to not have received refunds:

http://www.bitminerefund.com

I know people after me in the queue have been refunded.  They are picking select users to refund as a stall tactic.  They've told many users on this forum they will be refunded "in 2 weeks", and we haven't been.  I've been told that 2 or three times now.  My refund was due May 5th. Many clients fall into the same category as this.

This falls into the category of:
"1/10   = Yes - refunds significantly delayed or not being processed at all. Includes stall tactics."

Some refunds have been paid, so that's the category they fit in to. I have no control over this, that's how the system works and it applies to everyone.

Don't look at refund sites like this. People rush to get submitted but will rarely go back to the site to say they've been refunded. They have refund issues, they've also refunded some people.

And yet KnC who have been refunding (albeit slowly) on a regular basis, for months, and in most cases in BTC to the benefit of the customer, don't rate a some?

KnC was punished further for using the Franken module swap as a delaying tactic from the BFL playbook in order to delay actually issuing refund and reducing the number of refunds due. That falls under delaying tactics.

But that's not a cold, clinical, numerical system. They were still refunding people who wanted them, if you requested a refund up until they started shipping they were refunding people, I know I got a refund. It took a few months but it came through in spades. If you were stupid enough to get a frankenjup then thats your choice. Some people actually got them to work pretty well. I don't see how they are like BFL, when did they ever provide something equivalent? They just don't supply miners or refunds at all.

[dogie]

If you requested a refund up until they started shipping they were refunding people, I know I got a refund.

That doesn't stop it being illegal in consumer law to not refund for everyone else??? I'm not sure exactly what you're complaining about here, but of course its me being biased isn't it.....

[Biffa]

If you requested a refund up until they started shipping they were refunding people, I know I got a refund.

That doesn't stop it being illegal in consumer law to not refund for everyone else??? I'm not sure exactly what you're complaining about here, but of course its me being biased isn't it.....

No mate, just discussing it. No offence intended.

[Helium7878]

Thanks for this list.  I'd argue with Bitmine: "Refund Issues? Some 5/10"

Bitmine has only made some token refunds to give people false hope.  The majority appear to not have received refunds:

http://www.bitminerefund.com

I know people after me in the queue have been refunded.  They are picking select users to refund as a stall tactic.  They've told many users on this forum they will be refunded "in 2 weeks", and we haven't been.  I've been told that 2 or three times now.  My refund was due May 5th. Many clients fall into the same category as this.

This falls into the category of:
"1/10   = Yes - refunds significantly delayed or not being processed at all. Includes stall tactics."

Some refunds have been paid, so that's the category they fit in to. I have no control over this, that's how the system works and it applies to everyone.

Don't look at refund sites like this. People rush to get submitted but will rarely go back to the site to say they've been refunded. They have refund issues, they've also refunded some people.

That's fair enough.  If you have a 10 point scale, why not take advantage of it?  They've paid some refunds, but they've used stall tactics again and again.  Many of us have been told repeatedly we'll be paid in 2 weeks.  Wouldn't a rating of 2 or 3 be more accurate?

[dogie]

Thanks for this list.  I'd argue with Bitmine: "Refund Issues? Some 5/10"

Bitmine has only made some token refunds to give people false hope.  The majority appear to not have received refunds:

http://www.bitminerefund.com

I know people after me in the queue have been refunded.  They are picking select users to refund as a stall tactic.  They've told many users on this forum they will be refunded "in 2 weeks", and we haven't been.  I've been told that 2 or three times now.  My refund was due May 5th. Many clients fall into the same category as this.

This falls into the category of:
"1/10   = Yes - refunds significantly delayed or not being processed at all. Includes stall tactics."

Some refunds have been paid, so that's the category they fit in to. I have no control over this, that's how the system works and it applies to everyone.

Don't look at refund sites like this. People rush to get submitted but will rarely go back to the site to say they've been refunded. They have refund issues, they've also refunded some people.

That's fair enough.  If you have a 10 point scale, why not take advantage of it?  They've paid some refunds, but they've used stall tactics again and again.  Many of us have been told repeatedly we'll be paid in 2 weeks.  Wouldn't a rating of 2 or 3 be more accurate?

A system like this requires as few options as possible to remove the human from the system and let the system do the ranking. The system is already considered as too 'opinionised' as it is (even though there is are opinions at all), adding more options would only feed the trolls.

[Helium7878]

Refunds are significantly delayed and they have used stall tactics.  You act insulted when people question your ratings, but you choose to ignore these serious problems.  I was supposed to be refunded 3 months ago.  It's really significant actually.  And they use stall tactics.

You are not helping the little guys when you ignore this stuff.  Some of us can't afford to lose that money, and if you rate them as 'fine' they have no real reason to pay us back. 

"1 - refunds significantly delayed or not being processed at all. Includes stall tactics."  is the truth

[dogie]

Refunds are significantly delayed and they have used stall tactics.  You act insulted when people question your ratings, but you choose to ignore these serious problems.  I was supposed to be refunded 3 months ago.  It's really significant actually.  And they use stall tactics.

You are not helping the little guys when you ignore this stuff.  Some of us can't afford to lose that money, and if you rate them as 'fine' they have no real reason to pay us back.  

"1 - refunds significantly delayed or not being processed at all. Includes stall tactics."  is the truth

Then how do I differentiate between people who are refunding partially, and those who aren't at all? Goes back to I can't have all moderately bad companies with the worst possible rating because then you don't have any scale.

For the 800th time, I am not 'ignoring this stuff'. Its simply impossible to integrate the opinions of 1000s of people into one rating, when most of the opinions are biased due to having orders gone wrong or propose unworkable solutions. If you really think you have a better idea and I'm 'ignoring you', go make your own thread.

[hdbuck]

Then how do I differentiate between people who are refund, and those who aren't at all? Goes back to I can't have all moderately bad companies with the worst possible rating because then you don't have any scale.

yes, tell the truth, there is ASICMiner, and that's about it. All the others are greedy enough to fool one of us simple miners once.. if not twice! ^^

[JoTheKhan]

Refunds are significantly delayed and they have used stall tactics.  You act insulted when people question your ratings, but you choose to ignore these serious problems.  I was supposed to be refunded 3 months ago.  It's really significant actually.  And they use stall tactics.

You are not helping the little guys when you ignore this stuff.  Some of us can't afford to lose that money, and if you rate them as 'fine' they have no real reason to pay us back.  

"1 - refunds significantly delayed or not being processed at all. Includes stall tactics."  is the truth

Dogie's guide shouldn't be the end all be all. Look at the guide, get a decent glimpse of the company. Then continue to do your own research, if you wanna be a miner. You're gonna have to do some research anyways. Dogie just sets a solid foundation so people know what companies to steer clear off. He isn't guiding you through getting your own miners. He just reviews individual miners and reviews the companies that sell them.

Basing your purchase off of one man, no matter how he sets up his scale is very foolish IMHO. 

[ghcannon]

Just putting it out there that I got some X-1s from BlackArrow and their quality is not that bad at all. They are super silent, have great heatsinks, the wifi and lcd are working nicely and setting it up takes minutes.

They are actually quite nice machines when they work. They are just so horribly late.

[Atomar]

Just putting it out there that I got some X-1s from BlackArrow and their quality is not that bad at all. They are super silent, have great heatsinks, the wifi and lcd are working nicely and setting it up takes minutes.

They are actually quite nice machines when they work. They are just so horribly late.

+1
All so true! Would be a nice miner ... back in February!

[dogie]

Just putting it out there that I got some X-1s from BlackArrow and their quality is not that bad at all. They are super silent, have great heatsinks, the wifi and lcd are working nicely and setting it up takes minutes.

They are actually quite nice machines when they work. They are just so horribly late.

A small number were shipped with incorrect firmware which was extremely unstable and wasn't upgradeable by the user, rendering the units essentially door stops. A small number, but still some.

[ghcannon]

Agreed, but a score of 1 on that scale is perhaps too abysmal. I'd give it at least a 2.
Communication, on the other hand, is for me at -100, but that's a different story ...

Keep up the good work!

[dogie]

Agreed, but a score of 1 on that scale is perhaps too abysmal. I'd give it at least a 2.
Communication, on the other hand, is for me at -100, but that's a different story ...

Keep up the good work!

Its either 1, 5 or 10, otherwise there is too much human input and I get accused of being biased or being paid off. That score will go up to 5 in the next update though, as long as there haven't been more reports of the same issue.

[jimmothy]

Agreed, but a score of 1 on that scale is perhaps too abysmal. I'd give it at least a 2.
Communication, on the other hand, is for me at -100, but that's a different story ...

Keep up the good work!

Its either 1, 5 or 10, otherwise there is too much human input and I get accused of being biased or being paid off. That score will go up to 5 in the next update though, as long as there haven't been more reports of the same issue.

Giving blackarrow a 5 for quality is way too generous. Even with "premium quality components" (which cost us our compensation) there are still many reports of faulty units from the very few who have received their orders.

Also why haven't you updated btcgarden and bitmains ratings? Btcgarden is way underrated and Bitmain has ethics issues (they have a megamine and refuse to release cgminer source code/potentially using unsecure cgminer version)

[dogie]

Agreed, but a score of 1 on that scale is perhaps too abysmal. I'd give it at least a 2.
Communication, on the other hand, is for me at -100, but that's a different story ...

Keep up the good work!

Its either 1, 5 or 10, otherwise there is too much human input and I get accused of being biased or being paid off. That score will go up to 5 in the next update though, as long as there haven't been more reports of the same issue.

Giving blackarrow a 5 for quality is way too generous. Even with "premium quality components" (which cost us our compensation) there are still many reports of faulty units from the very few who have received their orders.

Also why haven't you updated btcgarden and bitmains ratings? Btcgarden is way underrated and Bitmain has ethics issues (they have a megamine and refuse to release cgminer source code/potentially using unsecure cgminer version)

BTCGarden will lose their O and their minor if there are no more problems. Software isnt in the ratings yet, waiting on ck.