[Guide] Dogie's Comprehensive Manufacturer Trustworthiness Guide [1st Feb 2016]

[dogie]

Dogie, please look at BlackArrow's thread started by  Theymos.  There is now evidence that they have been mining on customer equipment with GPK's recent post.  Please add to original thread once reviewed.

I had a look what you posted and there is absolutely zero evidence of what you're claiming.

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[DebitMe]

Dogie, please look at BlackArrow's thread started by  Theymos.  There is now evidence that they have been mining on customer equipment with GPK's recent post.  Please add to original thread once reviewed.

I had a look what you posted and there is absolutely zero evidence of what you're claiming.

How so?  GPK has a board that he claims he never plugged in, but it has burn marks on the board?  How could those have gotten there without being run?

[ElGrandJefe]

Dogie, please look at BlackArrow's thread started by  Theymos.  There is now evidence that they have been mining on customer equipment with GPK's recent post.  Please add to original thread once reviewed.

I had a look what you posted and there is absolutely zero evidence of what you're claiming.

How so?  GPK has a board that he claims he never plugged in, but it has burn marks on the board?  How could those have gotten there without being run?

Burn-in testing. Duh. 

[dogie]

Dogie, please look at BlackArrow's thread started by  Theymos.  There is now evidence that they have been mining on customer equipment with GPK's recent post.  Please add to original thread once reviewed.

I had a look what you posted and there is absolutely zero evidence of what you're claiming.

How so?  GPK has a board that he claims he never plugged in, but it has burn marks on the board?  How could those have gotten there without being run?

Because one board being previously plugged in does not constitute evidence that they have been mining on customer hardware for months on end. It just means their QC is bad.

[ElGrandJefe]

I think they should get a 1 for Communication and 1 (preferably 0) for Ethics.

They have fucked up again and again, resulting in repeated delays and miners regularly going up in flames (both power supplies and hash boards). They disappear for weeks on end (they're in disappear mode right now), then come back with some bullshit about how they're working on a fix. They know all their X3 hash boards are defective, but make you ship the defective boards back to them to get replacements - at your own expense, naturally - apparently even going so far as to insist that you pay the customs fees for doing so.

In short, their communications have been nothing but lies and blaming everyone but themselves (including customers) for their problems. Their ethics are abominable - they've broken every promise they ever made: delivery schedule, refunds, price-matching, etc. Most recently their master customer service representative Alexey A. threatened that they could ship in 4 years and still be within their contractual rights.

They've promised a measly 50% extra hashing power for compensation, but say they can't ship any compensation units until they've completed the initial shipping queue. But both shipping queues are on hold because the current X3 design is defective and they've probably run out of parts for the X1. Instead, they say they're going to upgrade that one to the X1.5, with 150 GH, which will probably involve putting two under-spec chips on a board instead of their single-chip design. This will require reingineering, of course, which they will doubtless fuck up as well.

At this point, the only difference between BFL and BA is that BFL has been shut down. If BA's legal status weren't so obfuscated, I'm sure they would have been as well.

[hdbuck]

yet BA's rank is lower than BFL's.. how's that even possible??

[jimmothy]

I think they should get a 1 for Communication and 1 (preferably 0) for Ethics.

They have fucked up again and again, resulting in repeated delays and miners regularly going up in flames (both power supplies and hash boards). They disappear for weeks on end (they're in disappear mode right now), then come back with some bullshit about how they're working on a fix. They know all their X3 hash boards are defective, but make you ship the defective boards back to them to get replacements - at your own expense, naturally - apparently even going so far as to insist that you pay the customs fees for doing so.

In short, their communications have been nothing but lies and blaming everyone but themselves (including customers) for their problems. Their ethics are abominable - they've broken every promise they ever made: delivery schedule, refunds, price-matching, etc. Most recently their master customer service representative Alexey A. threatened that they could ship in 4 years and still be within their contractual rights.

They've promised a measly 50% extra hashing power for compensation, but say they can't ship any compensation units until they've completed the initial shipping queue. But both shipping queues are on hold because the current X3 design is defective and they've probably run out of parts for the X1. Instead, they say they're going to upgrade that one to the X1.5, with 150 GH, which will probably involve putting two under-spec chips on a board instead of their single-chip design. This will require reingineering, of course, which they will doubtless fuck up as well.

At this point, the only difference between BFL and BA is that BFL has been shut down. If BA's legal status weren't so obfuscated, I'm sure they would have been as well.

Agreed. I have no idea how dogie feels 5/10 for ethics and 4/10 for communication is reasonable.

BA makes BFL look like an honest company.

[dogie]

I think they should get a 1 for Communication and 1 (preferably 0) for Ethics.

They have fucked up again and again, resulting in repeated delays and miners regularly going up in flames (both power supplies and hash boards). They disappear for weeks on end (they're in disappear mode right now), then come back with some bullshit about how they're working on a fix. They know all their X3 hash boards are defective, but make you ship the defective boards back to them to get replacements - at your own expense, naturally - apparently even going so far as to insist that you pay the customs fees for doing so.

In short, their communications have been nothing but lies and blaming everyone but themselves (including customers) for their problems. Their ethics are abominable - they've broken every promise they ever made: delivery schedule, refunds, price-matching, etc. Most recently their master customer service representative Alexey A. threatened that they could ship in 4 years and still be within their contractual rights.

They've promised a measly 50% extra hashing power for compensation, but say they can't ship any compensation units until they've completed the initial shipping queue. But both shipping queues are on hold because the current X3 design is defective and they've probably run out of parts for the X1. Instead, they say they're going to upgrade that one to the X1.5, with 150 GH, which will probably involve putting two under-spec chips on a board instead of their single-chip design. This will require reingineering, of course, which they will doubtless fuck up as well.

At this point, the only difference between BFL and BA is that BFL has been shut down. If BA's legal status weren't so obfuscated, I'm sure they would have been as well.

Agreed. I have no idea how dogie feels 5/10 for ethics and 4/10 for communication is reasonable.

BA makes BFL look like an honest company.

Because that's how the criteria works, if you spent the time to read them. They do communicate, it doesn't matter if its all 'lies'. I can't lower their ethics score lower than -5 without them going bankrupt or approaching BFL's level - which they have not done.

[jimmothy]

I think they should get a 1 for Communication and 1 (preferably 0) for Ethics.

They have fucked up again and again, resulting in repeated delays and miners regularly going up in flames (both power supplies and hash boards). They disappear for weeks on end (they're in disappear mode right now), then come back with some bullshit about how they're working on a fix. They know all their X3 hash boards are defective, but make you ship the defective boards back to them to get replacements - at your own expense, naturally - apparently even going so far as to insist that you pay the customs fees for doing so.

In short, their communications have been nothing but lies and blaming everyone but themselves (including customers) for their problems. Their ethics are abominable - they've broken every promise they ever made: delivery schedule, refunds, price-matching, etc. Most recently their master customer service representative Alexey A. threatened that they could ship in 4 years and still be within their contractual rights.

They've promised a measly 50% extra hashing power for compensation, but say they can't ship any compensation units until they've completed the initial shipping queue. But both shipping queues are on hold because the current X3 design is defective and they've probably run out of parts for the X1. Instead, they say they're going to upgrade that one to the X1.5, with 150 GH, which will probably involve putting two under-spec chips on a board instead of their single-chip design. This will require reingineering, of course, which they will doubtless fuck up as well.

At this point, the only difference between BFL and BA is that BFL has been shut down. If BA's legal status weren't so obfuscated, I'm sure they would have been as well.

Agreed. I have no idea how dogie feels 5/10 for ethics and 4/10 for communication is reasonable.

BA makes BFL look like an honest company.

Because that's how the criteria works, if you spent the time to read them. They do communicate, it doesn't matter if its all 'lies'. I can't lower their ethics score lower than -5 without them going bankrupt or approaching BFL's level - which they have not done.

How is BA any different from BFL in those categories? BA is providing shitty/aggravating customer support just like BFL.

As for ethics, how can you possible argue that BA has better ethics than BFL?

BFL offered full USD refunds and honored them. BA offered full refunds and then decided screw it, let's just send customers their unwanted/dangerously faulty hardware anyways.

[dogie]

I think they should get a 1 for Communication and 1 (preferably 0) for Ethics.

They have fucked up again and again, resulting in repeated delays and miners regularly going up in flames (both power supplies and hash boards). They disappear for weeks on end (they're in disappear mode right now), then come back with some bullshit about how they're working on a fix. They know all their X3 hash boards are defective, but make you ship the defective boards back to them to get replacements - at your own expense, naturally - apparently even going so far as to insist that you pay the customs fees for doing so.

In short, their communications have been nothing but lies and blaming everyone but themselves (including customers) for their problems. Their ethics are abominable - they've broken every promise they ever made: delivery schedule, refunds, price-matching, etc. Most recently their master customer service representative Alexey A. threatened that they could ship in 4 years and still be within their contractual rights.

They've promised a measly 50% extra hashing power for compensation, but say they can't ship any compensation units until they've completed the initial shipping queue. But both shipping queues are on hold because the current X3 design is defective and they've probably run out of parts for the X1. Instead, they say they're going to upgrade that one to the X1.5, with 150 GH, which will probably involve putting two under-spec chips on a board instead of their single-chip design. This will require reingineering, of course, which they will doubtless fuck up as well.

At this point, the only difference between BFL and BA is that BFL has been shut down. If BA's legal status weren't so obfuscated, I'm sure they would have been as well.

Agreed. I have no idea how dogie feels 5/10 for ethics and 4/10 for communication is reasonable.

BA makes BFL look like an honest company.

Because that's how the criteria works, if you spent the time to read them. They do communicate, it doesn't matter if its all 'lies'. I can't lower their ethics score lower than -5 without them going bankrupt or approaching BFL's level - which they have not done.

How is BA any different from BFL in those categories? BA is providing shitty/aggravating customer support just like BFL.

As for ethics, how can you possible argue that BA has better ethics than BFL?

BFL offered full USD refunds and honored them. BA offered full refunds and then decided screw it, let's just send customers their unwanted/dangerously faulty hardware anyways.

Look at the criteria, what other infraction are you asking me to apply to BA.

[jimmothy]

Look at the criteria, what other infraction are you asking me to apply to BA.

Why doesn't BA have 1/10 for ethics and communication like BFL? What is different about BA?

[dogie]

Look at the criteria, what other infraction are you asking me to apply to BA.

Why doesn't BA have 1/10 for ethics and communication like BFL? What is different about BA?

BA does/did actively engage with customers, on here and the other coin forum. I still don't believe any company has got anywhere near the level BFL has. BA have messed up royally on one generation, BFL 2. And only one of those companies is in court ordered receivership currently.

[jimmothy]

Look at the criteria, what other infraction are you asking me to apply to BA.

Why doesn't BA have 1/10 for ethics and communication like BFL? What is different about BA?

BA does/did actively engage with customers, on here and the other coin forum.

BFL actively engages their customers in the same way. BA only spends slightly less time on this forum aggravating customers compared to BFL. (but just as little time helping/providing support)

BA have messed up royally on one generation, BFL 2. And only one of those companies is in court ordered receivership currently.

BA's recent failure left customers with $3/gh 1.2 w/gh horrible quality hardware while BFL's failure left their customers with $2/gh 0.8w/gh decent quality hardware.

If BFL hadn't been slammed by the FTC, I would classify BA as the bigger failure.

[btmtb]

Look at the criteria, what other infraction are you asking me to apply to BA.

Why doesn't BA have 1/10 for ethics and communication like BFL? What is different about BA?

BA does/did actively engage with customers, on here and the other coin forum.

BFL actively engages their customers in the same way. BA only spends slightly less time on this forum aggravating customers compared to BFL. (but just as little time helping/providing support)

BA have messed up royally on one generation, BFL 2. And only one of those companies is in court ordered receivership currently.

BA's recent failure left customers with $3/gh 1.2 w/gh horrible quality hardware while BFL's failure left their customers with $2/gh 0.8w/gh decent quality hardware.

If BFL hadn't been slammed by the FTC, I would classify BA as the bigger failure.

Clearly if Black Arrow wasn't hiding behind a jurisdiction spanning corporate structure they would have been given the legal battering that usually results from the disgraceful,  incompetent and arguably fraudulent service we all feel like we've received. We're not customers. We're victims. We're still trying to get the attention of someone in the right position of power and is suitably motivated to pursue this/these scammers. The history of the people involved is shocking reading.

[Pentax]

Look at the criteria, what other infraction are you asking me to apply to BA.

Why doesn't BA have 1/10 for ethics and communication like BFL? What is different about BA?

BA does/did actively engage with customers, on here and the other coin forum.

BFL actively engages their customers in the same way. BA only spends slightly less time on this forum aggravating customers compared to BFL. (but just as little time helping/providing support)

BA have messed up royally on one generation, BFL 2. And only one of those companies is in court ordered receivership currently.

BA's recent failure left customers with $3/gh 1.2 w/gh horrible quality hardware while BFL's failure left their customers with $2/gh 0.8w/gh decent quality hardware.

If BFL hadn't been slammed by the FTC, I would classify BA as the bigger failure.

Clearly if Black Arrow wasn't hiding behind a jurisdiction spanning corporate structure they would have been given the legal battering that usually results from the disgraceful,  incompetent and arguably fraudulent service we all feel like we've received. We're not customers. We're victims. We're still trying to get the attention of someone in the right position of power and is suitably motivated to pursue this/these scammers. The history of the people involved is shocking reading.

Absolutely no question about that.  if they weren't in China with some convoluted structure using Hong Kong law, they'd be up to their eyeballs in paper.

as far as I'm concerned this convoluted legal structure is an advance on the scam.  what most people do not realize is that Hong Kong law is behind other countries in terms of consumer laws, including China's.  little doubt in my mind that this is why they chose it, as there are not many places on earth where what they have done is not outright spelled out as flat out illegal.  That doesn't mean it is legal in this case, but that the law is a little less spelled out on internet sales and rights of consumers, so it makes it a tougher fight.

not recognizing that fact is ignoring the obvious.  if they were in the US or Europe they'd be buried in lawsuits, and they'd be losing their asses.  they set this up, IMO, to avoid modern consumer law.  that makes them worse than BFL, IMO.

[AJRGale]

just a thought, an update to RockMiner? dropping the communication score? rockxie seems to have gone AWOL

[dogie]

just a thought, an update to RockMiner? dropping the communication score? rockxie seems to have gone AWOL

Everything is being considered in the next round

[AJRGale]

just a thought, an update to RockMiner? dropping the communication score? rockxie seems to have gone AWOL

Everything is being considered in the next round

thats right, you do this monthly'ish. right'o, i'll let it play out

[dogie]

just a thought, an update to RockMiner? dropping the communication score? rockxie seems to have gone AWOL

Everything is being considered in the next round

thats right, you do this monthly'ish. right'o, i'll let it play out

Meant to be, yeah. Got a bajillion things on the to do list today so will see how it goes.

[AJRGale]

anything you want a hand with? ir would it be a little harder to pass on your mind-set on things?