[Guide] Dogie's Comprehensive Manufacturer Trustworthiness Guide [1st Feb 2016]

[dogie]

anything you want a hand with? ir would it be a little harder to pass on your mind-set on things?

What do you mean?

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[dogie]

Changelog 12/17/2014

• Ethics crtieron 'BFL' changed from 'BFL' to Gov to represent behaviour so serious that government / regulatory intervention is required. This does NOT mean that the previous 'BFL' rating - a mark of extreme market behaviours - wasn't proper and correct.

• Communication ratings have been normalised lower than previously.

Company changes:

• Canaan Creative Communication up from 'Okay' to 'Good' (4 to 7).
• SpondooliesTech Preorders up from 'Yes' to 'Mix' (1 to 8]. *Although SpondooliesTech is currently selling out of hand, they have not yet demonstrated that their business model can support this into the next generation. On the announcement of next gen preorders, this rating will return to 'Yes'. On the announcement of next gen in hand / batch sales, this rating will increase to 'Batch' or 'No'.
• Bitmain Hardware Issues up from 'Minor' to 'No' (6 to 10).
• ASICMiner Communication down from 'Okay' to 'Bad' (4 to 1).
• ASICMiner OnTime down from 'Yes' to 'Mix' (10 to 5).
• ASICMiner Hardware Issues? Down from 'No' to 'Minor' (10 to 6). *Prisma suffered 'major' problems, but the company is offering more than fair buyback terms so customers are not out of pocket.
• OneStringMiner Communication down from 'Great' to 'Good' (10 to 7). *Was an error, already had the score of 'Good' but had the text of 'Great'.
• RockMiner Size down from 'Large' to 'Medium' (7 to 4).
• RockMiner Communication down from 'Good' to 'Bad' (7 to 1).
• XBTec Communication down from 'Good' to 'Okay' (7 to 4).
• Yiazo Communication down from 'Good' to 'Okay' (7 to 4).
• BTCGarden Communication down from 'Good' to 'Okay' (7 to 4).
• HashCoins added.
• BFL Ethics changed from 'BFL' to 'Gov' (1 to 1).
• BFL Delivered Yet? Changed from 'Few' to 'Yes' (5 to 10). *Due to the large numbers that Monarchs are / could be if it wasn't for temporary receivership delivered in.
• BFL Preorders up from 'Yes' to 'Mix' (1 to 8]. *Although BFL is currently selling out of hand, they have not yet demonstrated that their business model can support this into the next generation. On the announcement of next gen preorders, this rating will return to 'Yes'. On the announcement of next gen in hand / batch sales, this rating will increase to 'Batch' or 'No'.
• BFL Communication. *Clarification that the low rating is due to the regression to their own heavily moderated forums and to a lack of official participation in these forums - amongst other things. Additionally, the professionalism of interactions of staff on these forums is below the expected standard.
• KNCMiner Hardware Issues. *Clarification, that the low rating is due to the potentially dangerous use of high power draw far exceeding the PCI-E specification.
• KNCMiner Refund Issues up from 'Yes' to 'Some' (1 to 5).
• BlackArrow Communication down from 'Okay' to 'Bad' (4 to 1).

[MrTeal]

I'd suggest changing on time for technobit from Yes to Mix until the issues with their minion group buy are resolved.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=682105.1280

Also, I would suggest changing HashCoins from F to O for ethics until they can adequately address the serious issues that ckolivas and I have raised in their thread.

[dogie]

I'd suggest changing on time for technobit from Yes to Mix until the issues with their minion group buy are resolved.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=682105.1280

Can you explain why its Technobit's fault and not BA's fault in the GB please?

Also, I would suggest changing HashCoins from F to O for ethics until they can adequately address the serious issues that ckolivas and I have raised in their thread.

I don't like the manner in which they were attacked in that thread, ie "its a scam unless you do x y z and I've given you negative trust". There are Zeus customers out there and they haven't complained, so its more than possible what they've claimed is correct. I know you and CK say it isn't in your views, but then were are the complaining customers? There is a good chance that cgminer / the chips are simply behaving in a way not observed yet.

[sidehack]

I'd suggest changing on time for technobit from Yes to Mix until the issues with their minion group buy are resolved.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=682105.1280

Can you explain why its Technobit's fault and not BA's fault in the GB please?

Not to step on MrTeal's toes, but to second his concerns - as far as I can tell, Technobit had chips in hand in July for a product promised to be delivered in August. Their PCB design had flaws, and their controllers had flaws, and it looks a lot like they didn't put the required manpower onto fixing those flaws in a timely manner. Communication has been dismal - almost nonexistent - after the first month or so of "debacle" stage. They've ignored offers for help and pushed new products while leaving existing customers hanging for between four and five months.

[MrTeal]

I'd suggest changing on time for technobit from Yes to Mix until the issues with their minion group buy are resolved.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=682105.1280

Can you explain why its Technobit's fault and not BA's fault in the GB please?

Also, I would suggest changing HashCoins from F to O for ethics until they can adequately address the serious issues that ckolivas and I have raised in their thread.

I don't like the manner in which they were attacked in that thread, ie "its a scam unless you do x y z and I've given you negative trust". There are Zeus customers out there and they haven't complained, so its more than possible what they've claimed is correct. I know you and CK say it isn't in your views, but then were are the complaining customers? There is a good chance that cgminer / the chips are simply behaving in a way not observed yet.

Either the customers are nonexistent,  or they shipped their modified cgminer with the units and the customers haven't noticed that the stats don't match their pool stats. I really can't stress enough that what they are claiming is impossible. I've designed a board based on that chip, have chip documentation, and have spoken with the ASIC engineer who designed it. Their claimed hash rate can not be achieved at the frequencies they list. You get at most 768 hashes per clock cycle, that is it.

[Blazed]

Am I reading this right..no quality issues for AM? Have you looked at the Prisma thread?? The tubes also had problems, and the RMA process is horrible too. To this day I own right around 90 ASIC miners all hashing and AM is the ONLY company that has ever sold me DOA hardware...2 times in a row.

[dogie]

Am I reading this right..no quality issues for AM? Have you looked at the Prisma thread?? The tubes also had problems, and the RMA process is horrible too. To this day I own right around 90 ASIC miners all hashing and AM is the ONLY company that has ever sold me DOA hardware...2 times in a row.

Yes, you read it wrong.

ASICMiner Hardware Issues? Down from 'No' to 'Minor' (10 to 6). *Prisma suffered 'major' problems, but the company is offering more than fair buyback terms so customers are not out of pocket.

[AJRGale]

anything you want a hand with? ir would it be a little harder to pass on your mind-set on things?

What do you mean?

what i mean is this is your project, you understand how it works, is it possible that someone could give you a hand on it?
and on that note, do you want a hand from me?

[IYFTech]

That would mean him sharing his bribes/payments/free mining hardware with you.....

Forget it.

[Flying Hellfish]

I'd suggest changing on time for technobit from Yes to Mix until the issues with their minion group buy are resolved.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=682105.1280

Can you explain why its Technobit's fault and not BA's fault in the GB please?

Also, I would suggest changing HashCoins from F to O for ethics until they can adequately address the serious issues that ckolivas and I have raised in their thread.

I don't like the manner in which they were attacked in that thread, ie "its a scam unless you do x y z and I've given you negative trust". There are Zeus customers out there and they haven't complained, so its more than possible what they've claimed is correct. I know you and CK say it isn't in your views, but then were are the complaining customers? There is a good chance that cgminer / the chips are simply behaving in a way not observed yet.

We all know your ratings are based on your own opinion, thank you for further clarifying such.  Con man and Mr. Teal are both proven experts in their respective fields.  They have both asked legitimate questions and presented convincing arguments.  Mr Teal even offered up a 100 coins (against their 100 obviously) if they could prove their claims.  The burden should be on Hashcoins to prove that Con man and Mr Teal are mistaken, not the other way around.

[dogie]

I don't like the manner in which they were attacked in that thread, ie "its a scam unless you do x y z and I've given you negative trust". There are Zeus customers out there and they haven't complained, so its more than possible what they've claimed is correct. I know you and CK say it isn't in your views, but then were are the complaining customers? There is a good chance that cgminer / the chips are simply behaving in a way not observed yet.

We all know your ratings are based on your own opinion, thank you for further clarifying such.  Con man and Mr. Teal are both proven experts in their respective fields.  They have both asked legitimate questions and presented convincing arguments.  Mr Teal even offered up a 100 coins (against their 100 obviously) if they could prove their claims.  The burden should be on Hashcoins to prove that Con man and Mr Teal are mistaken, not the other way around.

Me commenting on how they were treated in a different thread has nothing to do with this thread, don't try and put words in my mouth. They have asked questions, HashCoins has replied and it will either turn out that they were falsifying x y z or they weren't. It shouldn't be up to us to persecute them as if they're guilty of some huge scam when all there is is conjecture. Neither of those two people have seen a Zeus board and so can not - to appropriate standards - provide its non existence.

As I said before, if there was a Zeus customer who turned up and said ".....fml I've been scammed" it would be a different story. But there hasn't been one, and they've been selling the Zeus for a while.

[dogie]

anything you want a hand with? ir would it be a little harder to pass on your mind-set on things?

What do you mean?

what i mean is this is your project, you understand how it works, is it possible that someone could give you a hand on it?
and on that note, do you want a hand from me?

I understand now, its okay. If you look at the abuse I get for simply updating the guide [being accused of being biased against / for every company, in both directions, simultaneously], you'll understand why updates don't always take top priority on the to do list.

[dogie]

PS, Black Arrow deleted my post in their moderated thread, the only company to do so.

[jimmothy]

Me commenting on how they were treated in a different thread has nothing to do with this thread, don't try and put words in my mouth. They have asked questions, HashCoins has replied and it will either turn out that they were falsifying x y z or they weren't. It shouldn't be up to us to persecute them as if they're guilty of some huge scam when all there is is conjecture. Neither of those two people have seen a Zeus board and so can not - to appropriate standards - provide its non existence.

As I said before, if there was a Zeus customer who turned up and said ".....fml I've been scammed" it would be a different story. But there hasn't been one, and they've been selling the Zeus for a while.

I've updated dogies guide rating from 5/10 down to 1/10

Why is BA 5/10 ethics even though they are several times more unethical than the current BFL? In fact I'd say they are the least ethical company still selling hardware.

It's clear as day that hashcoins is a scam.

Here's what you said in the avalon thread:

That would be great if you could double power efficiency without changing chips, but no - it refers to a future generation.

So you think it's impossible to double efficiency without changing chips, yet you don't even remotely question it when Hashcoins claims they can OVERCLOCK to unheard of levels and INCREASE efficiency?

Faking cgminer stats, threatening community with frivolous lawsuits, refusing to prove their super advanced hardware exists = ethics 10/10?

Delivering hardware to maybe 5 people max = Delivery 10/10?

[Bicknellski]

I'd suggest changing on time for technobit from Yes to Mix until the issues with their minion group buy are resolved.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=682105.1280

Can you explain why its Technobit's fault and not BA's fault in the GB please?

Also, I would suggest changing HashCoins from F to O for ethics until they can adequately address the serious issues that ckolivas and I have raised in their thread.

I don't like the manner in which they were attacked in that thread, ie "its a scam unless you do x y z and I've given you negative trust". There are Zeus customers out there and they haven't complained, so its more than possible what they've claimed is correct. I know you and CK say it isn't in your views, but then were are the complaining customers? There is a good chance that cgminer / the chips are simply behaving in a way not observed yet.

We all know your ratings are based on your own opinion, thank you for further clarifying such.  Con man and Mr. Teal are both proven experts in their respective fields.  They have both asked legitimate questions and presented convincing arguments.  Mr Teal even offered up a 100 coins (against their 100 obviously) if they could prove their claims.  The burden should be on Hashcoins to prove that Con man and Mr Teal are mistaken, not the other way around.

One should always err on the side of the consumer given the issues. Unfortunately when people take coin for review purposes that puts in question the reliability of any guide. At this point if you promote more than just a few companies as reliable your rating system is a pure fantasy. Even with reputable sellers like Spondoolies, Bitmain and Asicminer there are concerns from customers. Although they unlike most others have made efforts to rectify issues. The others are just not worth your time or effort at this point. It is clear that the goal is not consumer education or support but rather to gather more "influence" and create a business around the guide and other threads. What started out as information has become a revenue stream. Maybe time to move these threads to a new paid advertorial Hardware area.

We all know the reality. There is little in mining for anyone with shallow pockets and if you ignore that fact willingly you are not helping educate the community you are helping sellers hawk wares that are never going to return on investment. Wrong focus for a guide it should be helping people make informed decisions. This one is not given the concerns of consumers and members of the community trying desperately to get this guide to work properly.

Someone should just copy paste his system and do a proper community based guide with a number of reviewers sampling community opinion. Make his version obsolete. My version is not a COPY of this because it doesn't as many others have the same rigor as say consumer reports. It is silly to think that the purpose of these reviews is anything other low level advertizing.

[dogie]

Someone should do a proper community based guide with a number of reviewers sampling community opinion. Make his version obsolete.

You mean like you already did

[dogie]

I've updated dogies guide rating from 5/10 down to 1/10

Why is BA 5/10 ethics even though they are several times more unethical than the current BFL? In fact I'd say they are the least ethical company still selling hardware.

We've been though this so many times... Show me an ethics score modifier that I can actually apply to BA.

It's clear as day that hashcoins is a scam.

Apart from they're delivering Apollo and Ares orders absolutely fine, and there are ZERO reports of the Zeus being 'dodgy'. If you're absolutely 100% sure its a scam, then I'll take you up on a 10 to 0 escrowed btc bet. If their Zeus boards are even remotely close to as they claim, I get 10btc. If not, you get an I told you so. ....Which will happen right, because you're 100% sure?

If you're not, then you shouldn't be flaming me for not marking a company a scam which has ZERO reports from CUSTOMERS about Zeus boards being bad.

[Guy Corem]

...

• SpondooliesTech Preorders up from 'Yes' to 'Mix' (1 to 8]. *Although SpondooliesTech is currently selling out of hand, they have not yet demonstrated that their business model can support this into the next generation. On the announcement of next gen preorders, this rating will return to 'Yes'. On the announcement of next gen in hand / batch sales, this rating will increase to 'Batch' or 'No'.

...

In general, I believe you're doing a decent job with the guide.
Regarding our score, we're currently selling from stock all our products line. It seems to me a bit unfair and last minute change of your scoring criteria.

[Bicknellski]

Someone should do a proper community based guide with a number of reviewers sampling community opinion. Make his version obsolete.

You mean like you already did

Interesting you equate my guide to a copy of your guide.

Laughable.

The biggest difference is I admit bias.

Caveat Emptor. Do your own reviews people and listen to past customers over this guide. You will be better off.