[ANN] Blacknet BLN | Staking | Future of zApp & ZeFi

[dragonseer]

His Wall Street escorts march initiative, I have been critical about (critical in the sense of examining the pros and the cons, not necessarily on condemning it since I was and remain, on the fence if every day that passes more incline towards the negative on it). Since the community will pay for it, hey, if they do pay for it, let's see if it was wrong and, in any case, how wrong. I just lighted the red light that it could be quite disastrous fro BlackCoin's image and that the "good" that could come from it would be limited, at best. What is there to be gained from it? I still don't see what "awareness" could bring us. We are not selling anything, therefore being aware of a gloriously beautiful logo cannot possible translate into anything greatly beneficial. Would a Howard-Stern-like event be detrimental? I believe it can, but not much either so, if the few that give are for it, why not. Again, neutral on it.

If I was in a city and saw pretty girls with 'Blackcoin' shirts handing out flyers, I would think a new strip club had just opened. So then, if I had never heard of Blackcoin, and wanted to know more about it based on this 'event', what would I find out?? Oh, it's like Bitcoin, but the community raised money to have a Hooters event in New York. What does that say about them?? I do own Sexcoin, obviously that is linked to an industry where women are sex objects, but that industry already exists and has for some time.

This desperate bid for attention is just that, it isn't linked to any kind of message about why you should have Blackcoin, or what it does, but let's plaster crap everywhere in the hopes there will be even more pumps on mintpal or something.

[Omnivion]

Self appointed is right. They are managing millions in a land grab. I and many others have concerns when a lot of money is at stake. I'm very upset about this foundation forming.

It has taken since the beginning of BC, starting from rat4 and Soepkip, to branch out and find the right members for this "foundation". This isn't something that has happened overnight. If you can't trust a group of people that have done (and without a premine or IPO to work off)

1. Laid down the infrastructure to make BC relevant with its pools
2. Funded CoinKite (thanks for the help Mintpal)
3. Funded promos for the miners like Black Friday and KNC Titan
4. Done their own PR through Twitter, Reddit, etc
5. A sponsor in Dogecon SF
6. Started up Blackcoin Farm
7. Started Blackcast and showed their faces
8. Now starting a huge PR campaign (Foundation "officially" formed here, a good 2 months after BC was released and after they have provided the above)

I don't what else you want? Legal names, addresses, phone numbers, day jobs, and etc? Maybe that will soon come, I don't know. But I could certainly understand if some people are not willing to put their personal information here in crypto land, at least not this soon. After all, everyone keeps talking about BC is still a young coin (which it is). But I'm sure all of that will come with time.

But if you're upset over "foundation" simply because of WDC as you seemed to have hint at before, then that is your problem.

Yeah, I have to agree that these guys have done a lot for the coin, I don't know where they've pulled the money out of for some of the promos (30k blackcoin giveaway for the multipool announced when the price was like 50k satoshi i think, free knc miner, $15k to enlist a PR firm).  And that says nothing of time I'm sure many of them have put in.

You don't necessarily have to agree with everything they do, and you don't have to donate to anything they do.  If anyone has their own initiatives and projects for the coin, they are more than welcome to start them or even see if the community is willing to lend a hand.  With decentralized cryptocurrencies, nothing is ever truly official - once it's released into the wild, it's fair game for anyone.  However, the dev team is "official" in the sense that they've been been central to building the coin and the community - without such dedicated people, you end up with stagnant coins that don't go anywhere.  So I'm happy we've got people working to build up the coin, both within the "dev team" and without (though I wish people would quit suggesting "pumping"/market manipulation).

[barabbas]

NOW, ABOUT THAT TITAN LOTTERY...

No one has the obligation to know but Titan is made by KnCminer.co which is a well known manufacturer of mining rigs. Also not an obligation, the company is associated -I believe he is one of the owners, with a certain ex-Disney actor by the name of Brock Pierce who happens to have quite a curriculum and, perhaps because of it, BlackCoin should consider avoiding any kind of direct or indirect relationship with this company. Read all about it here: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/bryan-singer-sex-abuse-case-699828

[ddeaNewtOn]

I have been away from here for a couple of days and frankly it's almost impossible to catch up with so many pages of related posts... Anyway, once again, fully knowing that that darts will be coming from every side, I am the self-appointed (apparently everyone is self-appointing themselves here on Blackcoin, so...) sober voice of of reason and common sense.

1.- Everyone in this forum knows that I don't see eye-to-eye with Iconic in  general and that I have found most of his ideas outrageous and damaging to BC. His antics with WC and their forum and his ill-fated attempt at creating an instrument to manipulate the market cannot be defended, regardless. At the same time, his launching of the BlackCard, while (importantly) being a for profit (for his personal profit, that is) endeavor, has been praised without reservations by me numerous times. His Wall Street escorts march initiative, I have been critical about (critical in the sense of examining the pros and the cons, not necessarily on condemning it since I was and remain, on the fence if every day that passes more incline towards the negative on it). Since the community will pay for it, hey, if they do pay for it, let's see if it was wrong and, in any case, how wrong. I just lighted the red light that it could be quite disastrous fro BlackCoin's image and that the "good" that could come from it would be limited, at best. What is there to be gained from it? I still don't see what "awareness" could bring us. We are not selling anything, therefore being aware of a gloriously beautiful logo cannot possible translate into anything greatly beneficial. Would a Howard-Stern-like event be detrimental? I believe it can, but not much either so, if the few that give are for it, why not. Again, neutral on it.

I point this out because it is relevant to what comes below in which I am, almost completely, in favor of Iconic's position:

2.- I cannot be more AGAINST the PR initiative. Once again, it appears that the self-appointed BlackCoin Foundation -or in Iconic's definition "the core group" or the "IRC Boys"-, is ponying up $15,000 of their own pockets to support it because, well they think it is a great idea ... because no other crypto has done it before... err, maybe I am missing something here but that type or "originality" in and of itself, doesn't merit the initiative. What is the purpose? what is the campaign? what are we selling? One again, what is the rush? (this is and old question I initially posed to Iconic too). We are barely 2 months old, doing great. Why we need to do "original" things? what's the rush, again? who are we running from? I fail to see the need for any of this at all. I see though, other nearer and way more concerning, worrysome in fact, realities: the multi-pool is still showing that horrible patch and has no front end; more worrysome even, it's been only a few days since the pool was literally put on it's knees by a simple DDOS attack, which showed the amazing vulnerability, on one side, and made a lot of miners run away to greener, more secure ventures. While we are pursuing new visitors, it seems that we have the house dirty and stinking and that whoever that comers our way can be faced with pretty dangerous situations and circumstances...

3.- Transparence. It was nice to see the faces of three members of the dev team (or is it the Foundation?.. I'm confused -more later-? in the BlackCast -it was terrible, to say the least, that the three seemed to be paid endorses of Marlboro AND the Colorado Chamber of Commerce, but at least we saw their faces and learn a couple of first names... but other than that, there's no transparency at all here. Example: If you ask on IRC about the multi-pool, you get all kinds of "answers" from the ever-present "Soepkip" and "Gritt" to other volunteers, such as "Syllabear" and others. Depending on who answers, for instance Soepkip, you get that "the multi-pool is not directly connected with the dev team" (therefore when it fails, well, sorry but not the devs fault) or that the said multi-pool is "not vital" to BlackCoin. If Gnu or others answer, then it IS indeed vital... but still not directly connected or the responsibility of the devs... Confusing, isn't it? Then you go on and get answers -or lack thereof- to such questions as "when does the multipool buy their BCs?" (apparently -no official word on it either- "they wait for the dips", rather than buy at whatever market price it is trading the moment the coins are sold -presumibly for BTC?. Again, no official word on this. When are the miners paid? er... uh... depends on Crypsty, apparently... although officials fromn Crypsty have shown on IRC to deny -or partially deny- this. In any case, it seems that miners are paid, uh, whenever the person in charge is not too busy.... "while we develop a system that will make the payments instantaneous and the mining proceeds happen". It's all cloudy out there. No specifics, no one really responsible of anything... "it will happen", they'll tell you. Eventually.

This is in the very specifics of mining. When it comes to structure, we are lost. Now, apparently, we have a BlackCoin Foundation. Really. Land grab has been  mentioned a couple times in the previous 40 pages of this forum but, let's ask: Who are the members of this Foundation? Are they the dev team? (I seem to have read that no, it's a group of BC investors). Well, since I am one such BC investor, how come nobody has asked me to join the Foundation or, at the very least, ask me if I was interested in having a foundation at all? Who decided we should have a Foundation and who are the members of that foundation. Names, real names. And wallet numbers, please. And with what criteria have they been chosen? and by who? I have to be on Iconic's side on this... all of a sudden a very aggressive and prolific campaign of posts in the forum by people that rarely if ever have posted before, are the self-appointed "BlackCoin Foundation". Who are these people and why are they "looking for our interests"? Or are they? I mean if this is a group big enough and with big enough wallets, they can manipulate at will to get the best of the markets and leave us all holding the bags? Who are they? what's their interest in having controlling power in BC? why spending $30,000 in a "branding" campaign that, at best, will bring nothing but awareness toward another copy of Litecoin with a slick logo? I mean, if they are ponying up $15,000 from their own pockets, who am I to question whatever they do in their own names? But if they do it as officially sanctioned BlacCoin Foundation, then I have some interest, direct interest, because I hold a sizable stake in this venture and I demand to know who are the "morituri's", etc. of this self-appointed foundation. Like I said, with full legal names and wallet numbers. That would be transparency.

3.- Let's be clear. And perhaps someone is going to explain to me in 10 words or less how wrong I am. BlackCoin is a Litecoin clone, with a gorgeous logo. Basically. A copy of a model (PoS) that was made public over 2 years ago (Nova) mixed with some other algos and of which there are at least 10 identical clones already out there and about 100 (a day) coming out. So, first of all and before we try the spend quite a bit of resources, why not getting to the basics? What the fuck is BlackCoin? Oh we are "fast", I get that... but isn't UltraCoin actually FASTER than BC? How much faster than LTC is BC? That is a claim that has to be true or it will backfire. But, lets assume, as some pretend, that BC is the fastest crypto in existence, how long is that claim going to remain true? Is it something we can base the "selling" of the coin on? I don't believe so. What else? Is it more secure, the most secure? How. In layman words -we are pretending to sell this to laymen, right?-. Are we a "holder of wealth" like someone has pointed, "for the wealthy"? How? with 1% annually that is exceeded by every other alto in the market? I really want the answers here, not at all trying to be negative. Exactly, in a very few words that everyone can understand, why is BC "the shit". The shit that merits public recognition through outrageous Wall Street marches and costly PR engagements determined by people of whom we know absolutely nothing about and masquerading as "The Foundation", all with an incredible craving for the coin to get to much higher prices in the exchanges and no substantial plan to actually grow it into something a small segment of the regular population will actually use some day. Picture me skeptical but all this seems designed only for the purpose of quickly -very quickly, 90 days or less- capitalize on an investment at whatever expense INCLUDING the future of the coin.

Sorry for the length. Hopefully only really interested parties would go through the whole thing. Every word is there for a reason, though... And I am not even asking for donations either.

The foundation this, the foundation that.. this that this that, okay done... If you have enough time to write a long letter about their transparency, why can't we set a time to develop the infrastructure or PR of the coin?

One thing I commend you doing is questioning the coin's details in full, that I do believe is a contribution and should be answered by someone (much more technically versed) or answered in the blackcast.

In my mind, crypto is a fast paced world. 1 week goes by with thousands of events that happen. Without something that pushes blackcoin out there, it will be drowned by the noise that is created... much like in a bitcointalk thread, so anything that happens for blackcoin, be it wallstreet event, PR event, crop circle.. anything.. it's something that someone is trying to accomplish to push blackcoin out there. Ofcourse they have their own motives to do that.

In the mean time, blackcoinpool is in the works for its x11 and Scrypt-N compatibility, head on to the IRC channel > #BCPDev if you have a miner and could help out with tests!

[MuffinMaster]

i think the old adage put up or shut up comes in here.

blade87 had a nice post of what devs and investors of this coin have done so far.

Soepkip has tried to talk to IE as diplomatically as anyone could after the kind of crap he claimed.

If you want to promote this coin then do it, no one is stopping you. Ask for donations, do whatever you want. Do it with your own money or not, but don't get mad at people donating and spending their coins how they want.

But when some of you(less then 5) are activity attacking(poorly reasoned hilariously over aggressive) the people that have built this coin from the ground up including rat4 and soepkip i have to question your sanity and motivation.

[ddeaNewtOn]

NOW, ABOUT THAT TITAN LOTTERY...

No one has the obligation to know but Titan is made by KnCminer.co which is a well known manufacturer of mining rigs. Also not an obligation, the company is associated -I believe he is one of the owners, with a certain ex-Disney actor by the name of Brock Pierce who happens to have quite a curriculum and, perhaps because of it, BlackCoin should consider avoiding any kind of direct or indirect relationship with this company. Read all about it here: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/bryan-singer-sex-abuse-case-699828

Interesting, I did not know that guy would be investing in cryptos LOL

[bitcoin carpenter]

.......

In other news

BLACKCOIN IS DOING GREAT

[judgecrypto]

Just some thoughts about everything going on...

1) I actually like the idea of a Foundation to organize things, fund raise, and yes even hire a PR firm.  People will fund the Foundation with donations so if people like what they see they will donate, if not they wont.  Why argue about it.  I say if you can get donations for a PR firm go for it.

2) I would like IconicExpert as a member of the foundation.

3) Wall Street event is Iconic's baby.  Let him run with it.  Dogecoin community members run all sorts of PR stuff.  Some of it makes sense, and others not so much.  If DOGEcoin is mentioned in the same breath as Bitcoin and Litecoin, I hardly think some girls running around wall street is going to have any damage to Blackcoin.  Basically leave Iconic alone.  If you support his ideas, donate.  If not don't.  He tries.  Personally I love the Wall Street event idea!

4) The dev (rat4) has done a great job in this coin.  We have seen the WC dev abandon their coin.  AC dev scammed everyone.  Yet we dont give enough props to the Dev that makes the coin work and keeps on it.  I would like to see part of the foundation create a dev fun to pay the dev.

5) We have a great team.  Like a family.  Some members are brilliant but outspoken.  Others are deliberate but not as vocal.  It is my belief that they all care deeply.  Lets not fight.  We should be celebrating!

Judge Neil / Judge Crypto

[bitcoin carpenter]

Just some thoughts about everything going on...

1) I actually like the idea of a Foundation to organize things, fund raise, and yes even hire a PR firm.  People will fund the Foundation with donations so if people like what they see they will donate, if not they wont.  Why argue about it.  I say if you can get donations for a PR firm go for it.

2) I would like IconicExpert as a member of the foundation.

3) Wall Street event is Iconic's baby.  Let him run with it.  Dogecoin community members run all sorts of PR stuff.  Some of it makes sense, and others not so much.  If DOGEcoin is mentioned in the same breath as Bitcoin and Litecoin, I hardly think some girls running around wall street is going to have any damage to Blackcoin.  Basically leave Iconic alone.  If you support his ideas, donate.  If not don't.  He tries.  Personally I love the Wall Street event idea!

4) The dev (rat4) has done a great job in this coin.  We have seen the WC dev abandon their coin.  AC dev scammed everyone.  Yet we dont give enough props to the Dev that makes the coin work and keeps on it.  I would like to see part of the foundation create a dev fun to pay the dev.

5) We have a great team.  Like a family.  Some members are brilliant but outspoken.  Others are deliberate but not as vocal.  It is my belief that they all care deeply.  Lets not fight.  We should be celebrating!

Judge Neil / Judge Crypto

*clap *clap

[barabbas]

I have been away from here for a couple of days and frankly it's almost impossible to catch up with so many pages of related posts... Anyway, once again, fully knowing that that darts will be coming from every side, I am the self-appointed (apparently everyone is self-appointing themselves here on Blackcoin, so...) sober voice of of reason and common sense.

1.- Everyone in this forum knows that I don't see eye-to-eye with Iconic in  general and that I have found most of his ideas outrageous and damaging to BC. His antics with WC and their forum and his ill-fated attempt at creating an instrument to manipulate the market cannot be defended, regardless. At the same time, his launching of the BlackCard, while (importantly) being a for profit (for his personal profit, that is) endeavor, has been praised without reservations by me numerous times. His Wall Street escorts march initiative, I have been critical about (critical in the sense of examining the pros and the cons, not necessarily on condemning it since I was and remain, on the fence if every day that passes more incline towards the negative on it). Since the community will pay for it, hey, if they do pay for it, let's see if it was wrong and, in any case, how wrong. I just lighted the red light that it could be quite disastrous fro BlackCoin's image and that the "good" that could come from it would be limited, at best. What is there to be gained from it? I still don't see what "awareness" could bring us. We are not selling anything, therefore being aware of a gloriously beautiful logo cannot possible translate into anything greatly beneficial. Would a Howard-Stern-like event be detrimental? I believe it can, but not much either so, if the few that give are for it, why not. Again, neutral on it.

I point this out because it is relevant to what comes below in which I am, almost completely, in favor of Iconic's position:

2.- I cannot be more AGAINST the PR initiative. Once again, it appears that the self-appointed BlackCoin Foundation -or in Iconic's definition "the core group" or the "IRC Boys"-, is ponying up $15,000 of their own pockets to support it because, well they think it is a great idea ... because no other crypto has done it before... err, maybe I am missing something here but that type or "originality" in and of itself, doesn't merit the initiative. What is the purpose? what is the campaign? what are we selling? One again, what is the rush? (this is and old question I initially posed to Iconic too). We are barely 2 months old, doing great. Why we need to do "original" things? what's the rush, again? who are we running from? I fail to see the need for any of this at all. I see though, other nearer and way more concerning, worrysome in fact, realities: the multi-pool is still showing that horrible patch and has no front end; more worrysome even, it's been only a few days since the pool was literally put on it's knees by a simple DDOS attack, which showed the amazing vulnerability, on one side, and made a lot of miners run away to greener, more secure ventures. While we are pursuing new visitors, it seems that we have the house dirty and stinking and that whoever that comers our way can be faced with pretty dangerous situations and circumstances...

3.- Transparence. It was nice to see the faces of three members of the dev team (or is it the Foundation?.. I'm confused -more later-? in the BlackCast -it was terrible, to say the least, that the three seemed to be paid endorses of Marlboro AND the Colorado Chamber of Commerce, but at least we saw their faces and learn a couple of first names... but other than that, there's no transparency at all here. Example: If you ask on IRC about the multi-pool, you get all kinds of "answers" from the ever-present "Soepkip" and "Gritt" to other volunteers, such as "Syllabear" and others. Depending on who answers, for instance Soepkip, you get that "the multi-pool is not directly connected with the dev team" (therefore when it fails, well, sorry but not the devs fault) or that the said multi-pool is "not vital" to BlackCoin. If Gnu or others answer, then it IS indeed vital... but still not directly connected or the responsibility of the devs... Confusing, isn't it? Then you go on and get answers -or lack thereof- to such questions as "when does the multipool buy their BCs?" (apparently -no official word on it either- "they wait for the dips", rather than buy at whatever market price it is trading the moment the coins are sold -presumibly for BTC?. Again, no official word on this. When are the miners paid? er... uh... depends on Crypsty, apparently... although officials fromn Crypsty have shown on IRC to deny -or partially deny- this. In any case, it seems that miners are paid, uh, whenever the person in charge is not too busy.... "while we develop a system that will make the payments instantaneous and the mining proceeds happen". It's all cloudy out there. No specifics, no one really responsible of anything... "it will happen", they'll tell you. Eventually.

This is in the very specifics of mining. When it comes to structure, we are lost. Now, apparently, we have a BlackCoin Foundation. Really. Land grab has been  mentioned a couple times in the previous 40 pages of this forum but, let's ask: Who are the members of this Foundation? Are they the dev team? (I seem to have read that no, it's a group of BC investors). Well, since I am one such BC investor, how come nobody has asked me to join the Foundation or, at the very least, ask me if I was interested in having a foundation at all? Who decided we should have a Foundation and who are the members of that foundation. Names, real names. And wallet numbers, please. And with what criteria have they been chosen? and by who? I have to be on Iconic's side on this... all of a sudden a very aggressive and prolific campaign of posts in the forum by people that rarely if ever have posted before, are the self-appointed "BlackCoin Foundation". Who are these people and why are they "looking for our interests"? Or are they? I mean if this is a group big enough and with big enough wallets, they can manipulate at will to get the best of the markets and leave us all holding the bags? Who are they? what's their interest in having controlling power in BC? why spending $30,000 in a "branding" campaign that, at best, will bring nothing but awareness toward another copy of Litecoin with a slick logo? I mean, if they are ponying up $15,000 from their own pockets, who am I to question whatever they do in their own names? But if they do it as officially sanctioned BlacCoin Foundation, then I have some interest, direct interest, because I hold a sizable stake in this venture and I demand to know who are the "morituri's", etc. of this self-appointed foundation. Like I said, with full legal names and wallet numbers. That would be transparency.

3.- Let's be clear. And perhaps someone is going to explain to me in 10 words or less how wrong I am. BlackCoin is a Litecoin clone, with a gorgeous logo. Basically. A copy of a model (PoS) that was made public over 2 years ago (Nova) mixed with some other algos and of which there are at least 10 identical clones already out there and about 100 (a day) coming out. So, first of all and before we try the spend quite a bit of resources, why not getting to the basics? What the fuck is BlackCoin? Oh we are "fast", I get that... but isn't UltraCoin actually FASTER than BC? How much faster than LTC is BC? That is a claim that has to be true or it will backfire. But, lets assume, as some pretend, that BC is the fastest crypto in existence, how long is that claim going to remain true? Is it something we can base the "selling" of the coin on? I don't believe so. What else? Is it more secure, the most secure? How. In layman words -we are pretending to sell this to laymen, right?-. Are we a "holder of wealth" like someone has pointed, "for the wealthy"? How? with 1% annually that is exceeded by every other alto in the market? I really want the answers here, not at all trying to be negative. Exactly, in a very few words that everyone can understand, why is BC "the shit". The shit that merits public recognition through outrageous Wall Street marches and costly PR engagements determined by people of whom we know absolutely nothing about and masquerading as "The Foundation", all with an incredible craving for the coin to get to much higher prices in the exchanges and no substantial plan to actually grow it into something a small segment of the regular population will actually use some day. Picture me skeptical but all this seems designed only for the purpose of quickly -very quickly, 90 days or less- capitalize on an investment at whatever expense INCLUDING the future of the coin.

Sorry for the length. Hopefully only really interested parties would go through the whole thing. Every word is there for a reason, though... And I am not even asking for donations either.

The foundation this, the foundation that.. this that this that, okay done... If you have enough time to write a long letter about their transparency, why can't we set a time to develop the infrastructure or PR of the coin?

One thing I commend you doing is questioning the coin's details in full, that I do believe is a contribution and should be answered by someone (much more technically versed) or answered in the blackcast.

In my mind, crypto is a fast paced world. 1 week goes by with thousands of events that happen. Without something that pushes blackcoin out there, it will be drowned by the noise that is created... much like in a bitcointalk thread, so anything that happens for blackcoin, be it wallstreet event, PR event, crop circle.. anything.. it's something that someone is trying to accomplish to push blackcoin out there. Ofcourse they have their own motives to do that.

In the mean time, blackcoinpool is in the works for its x11 and Scrypt-N compatibility, head on to the IRC channel > #BCPDev if you have a miner and could help out with tests!

Well you have your opinion which is, in all and in some, as respectful as any other, no more. Same with what is "In my mind...", except that what you say it is, is quite vague and unsubstantiated. In reality, far from true that "...1 weeks goes by with thousands of events that happen..." It's simply not true. Not thousands, not hundreds, not even tens... if you are referring to anything of substance, anything with repercussions. Basically, two things happen every week: A bunch of new alts go by the bayside after initial ever so minimal splash, one, and 2, prices, generally, keep going lower for all the rest also. Those are the two events that repeat themselves weekly, if not daily, and that have real impact, real repercussions for everyone in one way or another interested in altos. Doge sponsoring a Nascar? Bah, does it affect the price? No, fuck it... irrelevant. Maybe it will win... maybe it won't. Nothing "happens" actually, ok?
There are a thousand -or more- things that DO happen and that no one knows or talks about. For instance, 1000s of miners switch from one pool to the next because a) they don't trust the accounting, the payouts; or b) the pool is less secure and/or less profitable than others. But here we seem to be worrying about everyone's dick size, how to convert "normal" people to a coin that is new and does exactly what 100 others do (with a much more beautiful logo, that goes without saying) and that no one outside of cryptoworld would ever be interested in and about spending serious money in staging stunts of one manner or other to get people to ask "what the fuck is BlackCoin?" and then, when "explained" add "ah, I heard of all these "coins" for and by crooks, no thanks".

Anyone with 5-year old knowledge of business, to the lemonade stand level, knows that ANY business has to cater to their customers, including future and potential customers. Regardless of pyrotechnics, stunts anf other gizmos, there's not one chance in hell that anyone would come to BlackCoin if not through the doors of Bitcoin. Not One. Therefore to go to Wall Street or Main Street with pretensions of "awareness" is just an exercise in futility.

Besides that, who needs it? We are doing ("we" being BlackCoin) just fine as it is, without the pyrotechnics. People that is not mining is trading/investing in the coin. It is top 10. Has been for a long time and none of the newcomers nor the established ones is even remotely threatening that 8-9 position. In spite of people in Crypto not knowing of any difference between BlackCoin and any other coin. IOn spite of having been put in our knees with the DDOS attack. In spite of having a multipool portal that looks simply shameful. In spite of miners not having been paid -as of yesterday- for days. So, clen house and stop the futility, ok?

As for the Foundation, again, if you want to be a member, THE LEAST that can be expected from you is to reveal you legal identity AND your wallet, so everyone knows your level of interest in BlackCoin and, of course, if you sell those coins and when and how many. If you refuse to make public this information, your motives are suspect and you shouldn't be a member. As simple as that.  Plenty of qualified voluntaries... So, who are you, who is morituri, how many coins do you have in your wallet. No? Cant's stand the heat? get out of the kitchen. Very simple.

[AFaQ]

I have been away from here for a couple of days and frankly it's almost impossible to catch up with so many pages of related posts... Anyway, once again, fully knowing that that darts will be coming from every side, I am the self-appointed (apparently everyone is self-appointing themselves here on Blackcoin, so...) sober voice of of reason and common sense.

1.- Everyone in this forum knows that I don't see eye-to-eye with Iconic in  general and that I have found most of his ideas outrageous and damaging to BC. His antics with WC and their forum and his ill-fated attempt at creating an instrument to manipulate the market cannot be defended, regardless. At the same time, his launching of the BlackCard, while (importantly) being a for profit (for his personal profit, that is) endeavor, has been praised without reservations by me numerous times. His Wall Street escorts march initiative, I have been critical about (critical in the sense of examining the pros and the cons, not necessarily on condemning it since I was and remain, on the fence if every day that passes more incline towards the negative on it). Since the community will pay for it, hey, if they do pay for it, let's see if it was wrong and, in any case, how wrong. I just lighted the red light that it could be quite disastrous fro BlackCoin's image and that the "good" that could come from it would be limited, at best. What is there to be gained from it? I still don't see what "awareness" could bring us. We are not selling anything, therefore being aware of a gloriously beautiful logo cannot possible translate into anything greatly beneficial. Would a Howard-Stern-like event be detrimental? I believe it can, but not much either so, if the few that give are for it, why not. Again, neutral on it.

I point this out because it is relevant to what comes below in which I am, almost completely, in favor of Iconic's position:

2.- I cannot be more AGAINST the PR initiative. Once again, it appears that the self-appointed BlackCoin Foundation -or in Iconic's definition "the core group" or the "IRC Boys"-, is ponying up $15,000 of their own pockets to support it because, well they think it is a great idea ... because no other crypto has done it before... err, maybe I am missing something here but that type or "originality" in and of itself, doesn't merit the initiative. What is the purpose? what is the campaign? what are we selling? One again, what is the rush? (this is and old question I initially posed to Iconic too). We are barely 2 months old, doing great. Why we need to do "original" things? what's the rush, again? who are we running from? I fail to see the need for any of this at all. I see though, other nearer and way more concerning, worrysome in fact, realities: the multi-pool is still showing that horrible patch and has no front end; more worrysome even, it's been only a few days since the pool was literally put on it's knees by a simple DDOS attack, which showed the amazing vulnerability, on one side, and made a lot of miners run away to greener, more secure ventures. While we are pursuing new visitors, it seems that we have the house dirty and stinking and that whoever that comers our way can be faced with pretty dangerous situations and circumstances...

3.- Transparence. It was nice to see the faces of three members of the dev team (or is it the Foundation?.. I'm confused -more later-? in the BlackCast -it was terrible, to say the least, that the three seemed to be paid endorses of Marlboro AND the Colorado Chamber of Commerce, but at least we saw their faces and learn a couple of first names... but other than that, there's no transparency at all here. Example: If you ask on IRC about the multi-pool, you get all kinds of "answers" from the ever-present "Soepkip" and "Gritt" to other volunteers, such as "Syllabear" and others. Depending on who answers, for instance Soepkip, you get that "the multi-pool is not directly connected with the dev team" (therefore when it fails, well, sorry but not the devs fault) or that the said multi-pool is "not vital" to BlackCoin. If Gnu or others answer, then it IS indeed vital... but still not directly connected or the responsibility of the devs... Confusing, isn't it? Then you go on and get answers -or lack thereof- to such questions as "when does the multipool buy their BCs?" (apparently -no official word on it either- "they wait for the dips", rather than buy at whatever market price it is trading the moment the coins are sold -presumibly for BTC?. Again, no official word on this. When are the miners paid? er... uh... depends on Crypsty, apparently... although officials fromn Crypsty have shown on IRC to deny -or partially deny- this. In any case, it seems that miners are paid, uh, whenever the person in charge is not too busy.... "while we develop a system that will make the payments instantaneous and the mining proceeds happen". It's all cloudy out there. No specifics, no one really responsible of anything... "it will happen", they'll tell you. Eventually.

This is in the very specifics of mining. When it comes to structure, we are lost. Now, apparently, we have a BlackCoin Foundation. Really. Land grab has been  mentioned a couple times in the previous 40 pages of this forum but, let's ask: Who are the members of this Foundation? Are they the dev team? (I seem to have read that no, it's a group of BC investors). Well, since I am one such BC investor, how come nobody has asked me to join the Foundation or, at the very least, ask me if I was interested in having a foundation at all? Who decided we should have a Foundation and who are the members of that foundation. Names, real names. And wallet numbers, please. And with what criteria have they been chosen? and by who? I have to be on Iconic's side on this... all of a sudden a very aggressive and prolific campaign of posts in the forum by people that rarely if ever have posted before, are the self-appointed "BlackCoin Foundation". Who are these people and why are they "looking for our interests"? Or are they? I mean if this is a group big enough and with big enough wallets, they can manipulate at will to get the best of the markets and leave us all holding the bags? Who are they? what's their interest in having controlling power in BC? why spending $30,000 in a "branding" campaign that, at best, will bring nothing but awareness toward another copy of Litecoin with a slick logo? I mean, if they are ponying up $15,000 from their own pockets, who am I to question whatever they do in their own names? But if they do it as officially sanctioned BlacCoin Foundation, then I have some interest, direct interest, because I hold a sizable stake in this venture and I demand to know who are the "morituri's", etc. of this self-appointed foundation. Like I said, with full legal names and wallet numbers. That would be transparency.

3.- Let's be clear. And perhaps someone is going to explain to me in 10 words or less how wrong I am. BlackCoin is a Litecoin clone, with a gorgeous logo. Basically. A copy of a model (PoS) that was made public over 2 years ago (Nova) mixed with some other algos and of which there are at least 10 identical clones already out there and about 100 (a day) coming out. So, first of all and before we try the spend quite a bit of resources, why not getting to the basics? What the fuck is BlackCoin? Oh we are "fast", I get that... but isn't UltraCoin actually FASTER than BC? How much faster than LTC is BC? That is a claim that has to be true or it will backfire. But, lets assume, as some pretend, that BC is the fastest crypto in existence, how long is that claim going to remain true? Is it something we can base the "selling" of the coin on? I don't believe so. What else? Is it more secure, the most secure? How. In layman words -we are pretending to sell this to laymen, right?-. Are we a "holder of wealth" like someone has pointed, "for the wealthy"? How? with 1% annually that is exceeded by every other alto in the market? I really want the answers here, not at all trying to be negative. Exactly, in a very few words that everyone can understand, why is BC "the shit". The shit that merits public recognition through outrageous Wall Street marches and costly PR engagements determined by people of whom we know absolutely nothing about and masquerading as "The Foundation", all with an incredible craving for the coin to get to much higher prices in the exchanges and no substantial plan to actually grow it into something a small segment of the regular population will actually use some day. Picture me skeptical but all this seems designed only for the purpose of quickly -very quickly, 90 days or less- capitalize on an investment at whatever expense INCLUDING the future of the coin.

Sorry for the length. Hopefully only really interested parties would go through the whole thing. Every word is there for a reason, though... And I am not even asking for donations either.

Yeah youre right we dont need PR, we dont need to be noticed, we are just a coin thats valued by people wanting it and wanting to spend it...PR and getting noticed THATS JUST SILLY!! BTW You can find rat4 in the #blackcoinpool chat on freenode OFTEN. But hey youre the voice of reason LETS ALL SIT ON OUR ASS AND HOPE THE PRICE GOES UP! Worked well for MINT right?!?! LOLOL Seems like youre a troll either in support of something other than BC or in support of IE because the only thing you werent negative about that you rated neutral was IEs wallstreet plan, please, what a joke!!!(you that is, not the wallstreet plan, thats not a horrible idea...)

[barabbas]

I have been away from here for a couple of days and frankly it's almost impossible to catch up with so many pages of related posts... Anyway, once again, fully knowing that that darts will be coming from every side, I am the self-appointed (apparently everyone is self-appointing themselves here on Blackcoin, so...) sober voice of of reason and common sense.

1.- Everyone in this forum knows that I don't see eye-to-eye with Iconic in  general and that I have found most of his ideas outrageous and damaging to BC. His antics with WC and their forum and his ill-fated attempt at creating an instrument to manipulate the market cannot be defended, regardless. At the same time, his launching of the BlackCard, while (importantly) being a for profit (for his personal profit, that is) endeavor, has been praised without reservations by me numerous times. His Wall Street escorts march initiative, I have been critical about (critical in the sense of examining the pros and the cons, not necessarily on condemning it since I was and remain, on the fence if every day that passes more incline towards the negative on it). Since the community will pay for it, hey, if they do pay for it, let's see if it was wrong and, in any case, how wrong. I just lighted the red light that it could be quite disastrous fro BlackCoin's image and that the "good" that could come from it would be limited, at best. What is there to be gained from it? I still don't see what "awareness" could bring us. We are not selling anything, therefore being aware of a gloriously beautiful logo cannot possible translate into anything greatly beneficial. Would a Howard-Stern-like event be detrimental? I believe it can, but not much either so, if the few that give are for it, why not. Again, neutral on it.

I point this out because it is relevant to what comes below in which I am, almost completely, in favor of Iconic's position:

2.- I cannot be more AGAINST the PR initiative. Once again, it appears that the self-appointed BlackCoin Foundation -or in Iconic's definition "the core group" or the "IRC Boys"-, is ponying up $15,000 of their own pockets to support it because, well they think it is a great idea ... because no other crypto has done it before... err, maybe I am missing something here but that type or "originality" in and of itself, doesn't merit the initiative. What is the purpose? what is the campaign? what are we selling? One again, what is the rush? (this is and old question I initially posed to Iconic too). We are barely 2 months old, doing great. Why we need to do "original" things? what's the rush, again? who are we running from? I fail to see the need for any of this at all. I see though, other nearer and way more concerning, worrysome in fact, realities: the multi-pool is still showing that horrible patch and has no front end; more worrysome even, it's been only a few days since the pool was literally put on it's knees by a simple DDOS attack, which showed the amazing vulnerability, on one side, and made a lot of miners run away to greener, more secure ventures. While we are pursuing new visitors, it seems that we have the house dirty and stinking and that whoever that comers our way can be faced with pretty dangerous situations and circumstances...

3.- Transparence. It was nice to see the faces of three members of the dev team (or is it the Foundation?.. I'm confused -more later-? in the BlackCast -it was terrible, to say the least, that the three seemed to be paid endorses of Marlboro AND the Colorado Chamber of Commerce, but at least we saw their faces and learn a couple of first names... but other than that, there's no transparency at all here. Example: If you ask on IRC about the multi-pool, you get all kinds of "answers" from the ever-present "Soepkip" and "Gritt" to other volunteers, such as "Syllabear" and others. Depending on who answers, for instance Soepkip, you get that "the multi-pool is not directly connected with the dev team" (therefore when it fails, well, sorry but not the devs fault) or that the said multi-pool is "not vital" to BlackCoin. If Gnu or others answer, then it IS indeed vital... but still not directly connected or the responsibility of the devs... Confusing, isn't it? Then you go on and get answers -or lack thereof- to such questions as "when does the multipool buy their BCs?" (apparently -no official word on it either- "they wait for the dips", rather than buy at whatever market price it is trading the moment the coins are sold -presumibly for BTC?. Again, no official word on this. When are the miners paid? er... uh... depends on Crypsty, apparently... although officials fromn Crypsty have shown on IRC to deny -or partially deny- this. In any case, it seems that miners are paid, uh, whenever the person in charge is not too busy.... "while we develop a system that will make the payments instantaneous and the mining proceeds happen". It's all cloudy out there. No specifics, no one really responsible of anything... "it will happen", they'll tell you. Eventually.

This is in the very specifics of mining. When it comes to structure, we are lost. Now, apparently, we have a BlackCoin Foundation. Really. Land grab has been  mentioned a couple times in the previous 40 pages of this forum but, let's ask: Who are the members of this Foundation? Are they the dev team? (I seem to have read that no, it's a group of BC investors). Well, since I am one such BC investor, how come nobody has asked me to join the Foundation or, at the very least, ask me if I was interested in having a foundation at all? Who decided we should have a Foundation and who are the members of that foundation. Names, real names. And wallet numbers, please. And with what criteria have they been chosen? and by who? I have to be on Iconic's side on this... all of a sudden a very aggressive and prolific campaign of posts in the forum by people that rarely if ever have posted before, are the self-appointed "BlackCoin Foundation". Who are these people and why are they "looking for our interests"? Or are they? I mean if this is a group big enough and with big enough wallets, they can manipulate at will to get the best of the markets and leave us all holding the bags? Who are they? what's their interest in having controlling power in BC? why spending $30,000 in a "branding" campaign that, at best, will bring nothing but awareness toward another copy of Litecoin with a slick logo? I mean, if they are ponying up $15,000 from their own pockets, who am I to question whatever they do in their own names? But if they do it as officially sanctioned BlacCoin Foundation, then I have some interest, direct interest, because I hold a sizable stake in this venture and I demand to know who are the "morituri's", etc. of this self-appointed foundation. Like I said, with full legal names and wallet numbers. That would be transparency.

3.- Let's be clear. And perhaps someone is going to explain to me in 10 words or less how wrong I am. BlackCoin is a Litecoin clone, with a gorgeous logo. Basically. A copy of a model (PoS) that was made public over 2 years ago (Nova) mixed with some other algos and of which there are at least 10 identical clones already out there and about 100 (a day) coming out. So, first of all and before we try the spend quite a bit of resources, why not getting to the basics? What the fuck is BlackCoin? Oh we are "fast", I get that... but isn't UltraCoin actually FASTER than BC? How much faster than LTC is BC? That is a claim that has to be true or it will backfire. But, lets assume, as some pretend, that BC is the fastest crypto in existence, how long is that claim going to remain true? Is it something we can base the "selling" of the coin on? I don't believe so. What else? Is it more secure, the most secure? How. In layman words -we are pretending to sell this to laymen, right?-. Are we a "holder of wealth" like someone has pointed, "for the wealthy"? How? with 1% annually that is exceeded by every other alto in the market? I really want the answers here, not at all trying to be negative. Exactly, in a very few words that everyone can understand, why is BC "the shit". The shit that merits public recognition through outrageous Wall Street marches and costly PR engagements determined by people of whom we know absolutely nothing about and masquerading as "The Foundation", all with an incredible craving for the coin to get to much higher prices in the exchanges and no substantial plan to actually grow it into something a small segment of the regular population will actually use some day. Picture me skeptical but all this seems designed only for the purpose of quickly -very quickly, 90 days or less- capitalize on an investment at whatever expense INCLUDING the future of the coin.

Sorry for the length. Hopefully only really interested parties would go through the whole thing. Every word is there for a reason, though... And I am not even asking for donations either.

Yeah youre right we dont need PR, we dont need to be noticed, we are just a coin thats valued by people wanting it and wanting to spend it...PR and getting noticed THATS JUST SILLY!! BTW You can find rat4 in the #blackcoinpool chat on freenode OFTEN. But hey youre the voice of reason LETS ALL SIT ON OUR ASS AND HOPE THE PRICE GOES UP! Worked well for MINT right?!?! LOLOL Seems like youre a troll either in support of something other than BC or in support of IE because the only thing you werent negative about that you rated neutral was IEs wallstreet plan, please, what a joke!!!(you that is, not the wallstreet plan, thats not a horrible idea...)

Just this once I will dignify your stupid post with a quite succinct answer: It has worked beautifully the last 2 months... and remains so. There's no possible positive outcome for changing what, in spite of so many pitfalls, has worked so far. But you are not a troll, right?

[cryptojokes]

By popular demand IE/SK

http://iconic-vs-soepkip.blogspot.com
 

[keshuker]

So just to recap what has happened:

-Blackcointeam started bc and many promotions.
-Some random guy starts his own promotions.
-Blackcointeam continues what it has done so far.
-Random guy goes awoke on bcteam because of this.
-Blackcointeam continues what it has done so far.
-Random guy loses support
-Blackcointeam continues what it has done so far.

I might have skipped some pages with the rantings of a spoiled kid, but I guess this is about it?

[barabbas]

So just to recap what has happened:

-Blackcointeam started bc and many promotions.
-Some random guy starts his own promotions.
-Blackcointeam continues what it has done so far.
-Random guy goes awoke on bcteam because of this.
-Blackcointeam continues what it has done so far.
-Random guy loses support
-Blackcointeam continues what it has done so far.

I might have skipped some pages with the rantings of a spoiled kid, but I guess this is about it?

What the heck is going on here? That is NOT -and you very well know it- what "has happened".

First of all, the "Blackcointeam" is 5 specific individuals... or so we are left to believe... until now, that a supposed "Foundation", alien to those 5 individuals but officially supported by them, has been quickly assembled within a few (or a lot, we don't know) "investors". There's quite a based concern about just who these new individuals, that have expensive initiatives all of a sudden, are and what their motives (and means : Wallets) are. Very legitimate concerns.

Second of all, that new group -even though the ubiquitous Soepkip speaks for them-, has come up with a "PR plan" that they half-pay for, that some with financial experience and a lot of common sense question in principle... at least until what the PR firm -and what $30K will get from them- is. Very legitimate concerns.

Third, as a quite outspoken critic of "Random guy" and some of his tactics, I don't perceive he has lost any support -maybe unfortunately-. He may have questionable ideas, he may be motivated by ego and greed (who isn't here?) and he is definitely in an enormous hurry to get the price of BC up, but no one, not even me, questions, that he has done at least one very positive thing for BC -if for personal profit, mainly-, which is the BlackCard AND has worked to get developments in BC be known and published.

So you have skipped quite a few pages indeed... along with a bunch of very legitimate concerns of the community as a whole, something that you give the impression of not caring about at all. Perhaps I am wrong in perceiving that impression but seems to me you are much more interested in a discredit campaign that in any immediate or long term benefit of BC. Hopefully, I would be wrong.

[pizzaboy69696969]

By popular demand IE/SK

http://iconic-vs-soepkip.blogspot.com
 

EVERY time Soepkip and Iconic fight:

[virtualfaqs]

Just some thoughts about everything going on...

1) I actually like the idea of a Foundation to organize things, fund raise, and yes even hire a PR firm.  People will fund the Foundation with donations so if people like what they see they will donate, if not they wont.  Why argue about it.  I say if you can get donations for a PR firm go for it.

2) I would like IconicExpert as a member of the foundation.

3) Wall Street event is Iconic's baby.  Let him run with it.  Dogecoin community members run all sorts of PR stuff.  Some of it makes sense, and others not so much.  If DOGEcoin is mentioned in the same breath as Bitcoin and Litecoin, I hardly think some girls running around wall street is going to have any damage to Blackcoin.  Basically leave Iconic alone.  If you support his ideas, donate.  If not don't.  He tries.  Personally I love the Wall Street event idea!

4) The dev (rat4) has done a great job in this coin.  We have seen the WC dev abandon their coin.  AC dev scammed everyone.  Yet we dont give enough props to the Dev that makes the coin work and keeps on it.  I would like to see part of the foundation create a dev fun to pay the dev.

5) We have a great team.  Like a family.  Some members are brilliant but outspoken.  Others are deliberate but not as vocal.  It is my belief that they all care deeply.  Lets not fight.  We should be celebrating!

Judge Neil / Judge Crypto

*clap *clap

Totally agree. BC is the only PoS ship that isn't sinking right now. Ok Cinni.... I dunno. Could go either way. 

[Goldshredder]

Thank you for the voice of reason, barabbas. It's probably a futile wish but I hope some serious responses are forthcoming from those concerned.

[keshuker]

So just to recap what has happened:

-Blackcointeam started bc and many promotions.
-Some random guy starts his own promotions.
-Blackcointeam continues what it has done so far.
-Random guy goes awoke on bcteam because of this.
-Blackcointeam continues what it has done so far.
-Random guy loses support
-Blackcointeam continues what it has done so far.

I might have skipped some pages with the rantings of a spoiled kid, but I guess this is about it?

What the heck is going on here? That is NOT -and you very well know it- what "has happened".

First of all, the "Blackcointeam" is 5 specific individuals... or so we are left to believe... until now, that a supposed "Foundation", alien to those 5 individuals but officially supported by them, has been quickly assembled within a few (or a lot, we don't know) "investors". There's quite a based concern about just who these new individuals, that have expensive initiatives all of a sudden, are and what their motives (and means : Wallets) are. Very legitimate concerns.

Second of all, that new group -even though the ubiquitous Soepkip speaks for them-, has come up with a "PR plan" that they half-pay for, that some with financial experience and a lot of common sense question in principle... at least until what the PR firm -and what $30K will get from them- is. Very legitimate concerns.

Third, as a quite outspoken critic of "Random guy" and some of his tactics, I don't perceive he has lost any support -maybe unfortunately-. He may have questionable ideas, he may be motivated by ego and greed (who isn't here?) and he is definitely in an enormous hurry to get the price of BC up, but no one, not even me, questions, that he has done at least one very positive thing for BC -if for personal profit, mainly-, which is the BlackCard AND has worked to get developments in BC be known and published.

So you have skipped quite a few pages indeed... along with a bunch of very legitimate concerns of the community as a whole, something that you give the impression of not caring about at all. Perhaps I am wrong in perceiving that impression but seems to me you are much more interested in a discredit campaign that in any immediate or long term benefit of BC. Hopefully, I would be wrong.

I think it is good if/when as many people as possible work for BC and promote it. I am happy that many do it, I have myself commented on IE effort that I like them and I hope they will be successful. I honestly do.

I hope that even more guys will step up and start doing their own promotions. I started doing my own things before most of the guys here even knew of BC, through @BlackCoinPromo which is not an official BC account on twitter. Check out the history if you want. I have never asked for recognition for my efforts, and I don't think anyone should. Recognition comes from working hard and honestly, without personal agendas or trying to push products you are selling.

I just don't GET the logic in attacking the core teams effort for doing its thing. Critique is welcomed and always be skeptical of intentions. Ask for clarifications etc.
Many say IRC is not a nice or modern thing to use, but if you want to talk/ask about anything from the Dev team, they always respond to you, and you can actually have a conversation there with them. Ask around, question what they do, give feedback, propose ideas, get to know each other and lets get back on track to make ONE blackcoin group.
There is no logic in dividing the group with us vs. them mentality. If you think about these last 50 pages of dirt, it all started after dev team announced a positive thing, half funded already. What is the logic behind attacking this, if its not a personal agenda for personal profits?

[KrokieRocks]

http://captiongenerator.com/16193/IconicExpert-finds-out-about-the-BC-Foundation

I think that IconicExpert has been acting exactly like this video recently.

P.S. I did not make this video, it's just being passed around in IRC... people are already sharing it like crazy on twitter ROFL!