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Author Topic: [ANN] Litecoin - a lite version of Bitcoin. Launched!  (Read 784546 times)
Fuzzy
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May 31, 2012, 11:47:39 PM
 #1681

Typically on a high-end CPU you get about 20 MH/s on Bitcoin, or about 40 kH/s on Litecoin.
On a high-end GPU you can get about 400 MH/s on Bitcoin, or about 400 kH/s on Litecoin.

This is closer to the real world performance that I've see, but regardless, LTC is not GPU hostile. If you want to mine LTC, you're far better off getting a PC with 5 GPUs than getting 5 CPUs, just like BitCoin.
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Cosbycoin
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June 01, 2012, 02:01:17 AM
 #1682

You forget that even while mining with a GPU the speed factor is a factor of 10 unlike bitcoin which is more like a factor of 100 or a 1000. Mining litecoins with a GPU is not profitable FYI.

Yes, but please keep the numbers real: it's more like 10x for scrypt (Litecoin) versus 20x for SHA-256d (Bitcoin).

Uhh if I mine bitcoin with my dual core processor I might get 2 mh/s

With a HD Radeon 6990 I get about 680 Mh/s

So you do the math.......

The difference is much more than 20x as you claim.

But then you are comparing a low-end CPU with a high-end GPU (well, actually a card with 2 high-end GPUs).

Typically on a high-end CPU you get about 20 MH/s on Bitcoin, or about 40 kH/s on Litecoin.
On a high-end GPU you can get about 400 MH/s on Bitcoin, or about 400 kH/s on Litecoin.

The BTC/LTC speed ratio is about 1000:1 for GPUs, but only about 500:1 for CPUs, i.e., CPUs are still two times more efficient than GPUs when it comes to scrypt.

THATS THE WHOLE POINT! THE FACT THAT THOSE TWO EXTREMES EXIST TO MINE BITCOINS IS MY POINT. YOU TAKE THE SAME TWO EXTREMES AND USE IT ON LITECOIN MINING AND THE DESPARITY IS LIKE 10X NOT LIKE WITH BITCOIN ITS LIKE 100 OR MORE TIMES....U GOT IT NOW?

 Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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June 01, 2012, 02:02:30 AM
 #1683

Typically on a high-end CPU you get about 20 MH/s on Bitcoin, or about 40 kH/s on Litecoin.
On a high-end GPU you can get about 400 MH/s on Bitcoin, or about 400 kH/s on Litecoin.

This is closer to the real world performance that I've see, but regardless, LTC is not GPU hostile. If you want to mine LTC, you're far better off getting a PC with 5 GPUs than getting 5 CPUs, just like BitCoin.
Perhaps but keep in mind that the cost to mine with GPUs is NOT free. Hence the fact that it isn't worth while.
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June 01, 2012, 02:41:14 AM
 #1684

Typically on a high-end CPU you get about 20 MH/s on Bitcoin, or about 40 kH/s on Litecoin.
On a high-end GPU you can get about 400 MH/s on Bitcoin, or about 400 kH/s on Litecoin.

This is closer to the real world performance that I've see, but regardless, LTC is not GPU hostile. If you want to mine LTC, you're far better off getting a PC with 5 GPUs than getting 5 CPUs, just like BitCoin.
Perhaps but keep in mind that the cost to mine with GPUs is NOT free. Hence the fact that it isn't worth while.

At $0.0025 and B 0.0005 per LTC, it's not worth mining PERIOD.

All I can hope for is adoption by miners who drop out of BTC after the reward split and ASIC release  Undecided
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June 01, 2012, 02:55:44 AM
 #1685

Typically on a high-end CPU you get about 20 MH/s on Bitcoin, or about 40 kH/s on Litecoin.
On a high-end GPU you can get about 400 MH/s on Bitcoin, or about 400 kH/s on Litecoin.

This is closer to the real world performance that I've see, but regardless, LTC is not GPU hostile. If you want to mine LTC, you're far better off getting a PC with 5 GPUs than getting 5 CPUs, just like BitCoin.
Perhaps but keep in mind that the cost to mine with GPUs is NOT free. Hence the fact that it isn't worth while.

At $0.0025 and B 0.0005 per LTC, it's not worth mining PERIOD.

All I can hope for is adoption by miners who drop out of BTC after the reward split and ASIC release  Undecided

If they both get profitable mining with GPUs will produce less in terms of net profit unless if the price volatility ends up taking the price waaaay higher.
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June 01, 2012, 03:12:55 AM
 #1686

The simple fact is that (at the moment) if you have GPUs and mine for a profit - you don't GPU mine LTC, you GPU mine BTC.
If you want LTC, you still don't GPU mine LTC, you GPU mine BTC and then buy LTC (also boosting the price of LTC)

If you have another reason for GPU mining LTC ... well ... what is it? Smiley

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June 01, 2012, 07:59:07 AM
 #1687

If they both get profitable mining with GPUs will produce less in terms of net profit unless if the price volatility ends up taking the price waaaay higher.

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
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June 01, 2012, 05:12:22 PM
 #1688

I don't really think we need to worry about making LTC GPU hostile. I think as long as a CPU can mine at least SOME coins, then it's okay. For example, remember the BTC web miners that would generate BTC on a website while you browsed? Well GPU mining killed those dead. But because GPU mining isn't such a large increase in power compared to what GPU mining did for bitcoin, you can still at least mine coins with a CPU. Meaning many more applications like web miners, or mobile phone miners, (Raspberry Pi, etc...) can still 'mine' at least something.

I think that makes a big difference.

more or less retired.
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June 01, 2012, 07:42:29 PM
 #1689

I don't really think we need to worry about making LTC GPU hostile. I think as long as a CPU can mine at least SOME coins, then it's okay. For example, remember the BTC web miners that would generate BTC on a website while you browsed? Well GPU mining killed those dead. But because GPU mining isn't such a large increase in power compared to what GPU mining did for bitcoin, you can still at least mine coins with a CPU. Meaning many more applications like web miners, or mobile phone miners, (Raspberry Pi, etc...) can still 'mine' at least something.

I think that makes a big difference.

Litecoin is the perfect mining complement to Bitcoin mining. I don't how much rigs are in operation in the world, but each of them have a CPU that's currently idle while the GPU works. Since doing GPU-mining is more profitable and logical with BTC, even if the option is possible with LTC, it's not an interesting option. But since CPU are viable for LTC, all those idle CPU from those rigs can be used to mine LTC. I get around 80KH with my CPUs to mine LTC, I think it's pretty good when you consider the alternative is idle CPU.
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June 01, 2012, 08:48:25 PM
 #1690

If they both get profitable mining with GPUs will produce less in terms of net profit unless if the price volatility ends up taking the price waaaay higher.

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

WTF did u just say? Speak in logical sentences please...
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June 01, 2012, 08:50:35 PM
 #1691

I get around 80KH with my CPUs to mine LTC, I think it's pretty good when you consider the alternative is idle CPU.

If your electricity is free, then yes. OTHERWISE, you're better off taking the money you'd spend on the extra electricity cost of running your CPU at 100%, and buying the LTC that way.

Just some math:

My 2600k eats 100w over idle when mining LTC. That's 2.4 KWrhs per day, and at $0.1 /KWhr that's $0.24 per day. Not very much.

I mine at just under 60 Kh/s, which right now would give you about 60 LTC/day

That's $0.004 per LTC if you mine.

LTC is trading for $0.0025 right now.
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June 01, 2012, 08:52:02 PM
 #1692

I don't really think we need to worry about making LTC GPU hostile. I think as long as a CPU can mine at least SOME coins, then it's okay. For example, remember the BTC web miners that would generate BTC on a website while you browsed? Well GPU mining killed those dead. But because GPU mining isn't such a large increase in power compared to what GPU mining did for bitcoin, you can still at least mine coins with a CPU. Meaning many more applications like web miners, or mobile phone miners, (Raspberry Pi, etc...) can still 'mine' at least something.

I think that makes a big difference.

Currently every GPU mining BTC is going to made unprofitable within the next twelve months and a lot of those GPU's may move over to LTC mining.  Making LTC GPU hostile will keep the difficulty down making it even more friendly to low power devices (mobile phones, RaspberryPi's, ect...) and web-miners.

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June 01, 2012, 08:52:35 PM
 #1693

I get around 80KH with my CPUs to mine LTC, I think it's pretty good when you consider the alternative is idle CPU.

If your electricity is free, then yes. OTHERWISE, you're better off taking the money you'd spend on the extra electricity cost of running your CPU at 100%, and buying the LTC that way.

I agree with this...but then again adding hashing power to the network helps secure it (even as small as it is now)
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June 01, 2012, 08:53:54 PM
 #1694

I get around 80KH with my CPUs to mine LTC, I think it's pretty good when you consider the alternative is idle CPU.

If your electricity is free, then yes. OTHERWISE, you're better off taking the money you'd spend on the extra electricity cost of running your CPU at 100%, and buying the LTC that way.

I agree but its very difficult to buy LTC with cash at the moment unless your going via the route of GBP>BTC>LTC.

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June 01, 2012, 09:00:08 PM
 #1695

Is there any chance that litecoin can be changed to again be GPU hostile?
I am not a developer by any stretch, but with the coming of FPGAs and ASICs onto the Bitcoin scene, coupled with the reward split, there are going to be a lot of Ex-Bitcoin GPUs floating around, and I bet a fair number will find their way onto the Litecoin Network.

This may be when Litecoin becomes the "silver" to bitcoin, but there are so many assumptions there, the outlook is a complete wash.

However, GPU hostility is impossible to do with Litecoin, as that sort of change would create a whole new chain/network.

Currently every GPU mining BTC is going to made unprofitable within the next twelve months and a lot of those GPU's may move over to LTC mining.  Making LTC GPU hostile will keep the difficulty down making it even more friendly to low power devices (mobile phones, RaspberryPi's, ect...) and web-miners.
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June 01, 2012, 11:38:12 PM
 #1696

Is there any chance that litecoin can be changed to again be GPU hostile?
I am not a developer by any stretch, but with the coming of FPGAs and ASICs onto the Bitcoin scene, coupled with the reward split, there are going to be a lot of Ex-Bitcoin GPUs floating around, and I bet a fair number will find their way onto the Litecoin Network.

This may be when Litecoin becomes the "silver" to bitcoin, but there are so many assumptions there, the outlook is a complete wash.

However, GPU hostility is impossible to do with Litecoin, as that sort of change would create a whole new chain/network.

Currently every GPU mining BTC is going to made unprofitable within the next twelve months and a lot of those GPU's may move over to LTC mining.  Making LTC GPU hostile will keep the difficulty down making it even more friendly to low power devices (mobile phones, RaspberryPi's, ect...) and web-miners.

??
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June 02, 2012, 09:46:32 AM
 #1697

However, GPU hostility is impossible to do with Litecoin, as that sort of change would create a whole new chain/network.

Just for the sake of clarity, it is possible to change the algorithm without restarting the chain, it just takes some coding.
The real problem would be devising a hashing algorithm that is more GPU-hostile and ASIC-hostile than scrypt and that is at the same time immune to cryptographic attacks.

BTC: 15MRTcUweNVJbhTyH5rq9aeSdyigFrskqE · LTC: LTCPooLqTK1SANSNeTR63GbGwabTKEkuS7
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June 02, 2012, 10:34:34 AM
 #1698

However, GPU hostility is impossible to do with Litecoin, as that sort of change would create a whole new chain/network.

Just for the sake of clarity, it is possible to change the algorithm without restarting the chain, it just takes some coding.
The real problem would be devising a hashing algorithm that is more GPU-hostile and ASIC-hostile than scrypt and that is at the same time immune to cryptographic attacks.

There was a thread recently which concluded that this was a practical impossibility for an established network, i.e, it creates a fork in the chain.
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June 02, 2012, 11:45:01 AM
 #1699

However, GPU hostility is impossible to do with Litecoin, as that sort of change would create a whole new chain/network.

Just for the sake of clarity, it is possible to change the algorithm without restarting the chain, it just takes some coding.
The real problem would be devising a hashing algorithm that is more GPU-hostile and ASIC-hostile than scrypt and that is at the same time immune to cryptographic attacks.

There was a thread recently which concluded that this was a practical impossibility for an established network, i.e, it creates a fork in the chain.

That thread refers to a well-established network. Litecoin is nowhere as widespread as Bitcoin, and "political" issues are considerably less complicated.
A mandatory protocol upgrade would of course create a split in the blockchain, but if the transition is carefully planned (so that all the pools and the majority of users all agree on the changes and upgrade their software accordingly) I think there should be no major problem.

As I stated before, however, I don't think that's where the real problem lies.

BTC: 15MRTcUweNVJbhTyH5rq9aeSdyigFrskqE · LTC: LTCPooLqTK1SANSNeTR63GbGwabTKEkuS7
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June 02, 2012, 06:54:05 PM
 #1700

However, GPU hostility is impossible to do with Litecoin, as that sort of change would create a whole new chain/network.

Just for the sake of clarity, it is possible to change the algorithm without restarting the chain, it just takes some coding.
The real problem would be devising a hashing algorithm that is more GPU-hostile and ASIC-hostile than scrypt and that is at the same time immune to cryptographic attacks.

There was a thread recently which concluded that this was a practical impossibility for an established network, i.e, it creates a fork in the chain.

That thread refers to a well-established network. Litecoin is nowhere as widespread as Bitcoin, and "political" issues are considerably less complicated.
A mandatory protocol upgrade would of course create a split in the blockchain, but if the transition is carefully planned (so that all the pools and the majority of users all agree on the changes and upgrade their software accordingly) I think there should be no major problem.

As I stated before, however, I don't think that's where the real problem lies.

I agree. First of all, most people are ok with Litecoin being GPU mined. I've talked to many people and that majority thinks that I should leave it be since GPU mining does not kill CPU mining like it did in Bitcoin. Secondly, I'm not aware of any algorithm that is truly GPU-hostile. I think it would be really hard (if not impossible) to come up with one. And plus, GPUs will start to have more and more memory. So even if we did come up with an algorithm that is GPU-hostile now, it might not be when next year's GPUs come out. So I think it's a losing proposition to try to fight this. I'm willing to let this play out. My guess is that Litecoin will be one generation behind Bitcoin. While Bitcoin is moving towards FPGA, Litecoin will be GPU mined, and when Bitcoin moves towards ASIC, the FPGAs will be used to mine Litecoin.

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