[ANN] Litecoin - a lite version of Bitcoin. Launched!

[Cosbycoin]

Typically on a high-end CPU you get about 20 MH/s on Bitcoin, or about 40 kH/s on Litecoin.
On a high-end GPU you can get about 400 MH/s on Bitcoin, or about 400 kH/s on Litecoin.

This is closer to the real world performance that I've see, but regardless, LTC is not GPU hostile. If you want to mine LTC, you're far better off getting a PC with 5 GPUs than getting 5 CPUs, just like BitCoin.

Perhaps but keep in mind that the cost to mine with GPUs is NOT free. Hence the fact that it isn't worth while.

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[Fuzzy]

Typically on a high-end CPU you get about 20 MH/s on Bitcoin, or about 40 kH/s on Litecoin.
On a high-end GPU you can get about 400 MH/s on Bitcoin, or about 400 kH/s on Litecoin.

This is closer to the real world performance that I've see, but regardless, LTC is not GPU hostile. If you want to mine LTC, you're far better off getting a PC with 5 GPUs than getting 5 CPUs, just like BitCoin.

Perhaps but keep in mind that the cost to mine with GPUs is NOT free. Hence the fact that it isn't worth while.

At $0.0025 and B 0.0005 per LTC, it's not worth mining PERIOD.

All I can hope for is adoption by miners who drop out of BTC after the reward split and ASIC release 

[Cosbycoin]

Typically on a high-end CPU you get about 20 MH/s on Bitcoin, or about 40 kH/s on Litecoin.
On a high-end GPU you can get about 400 MH/s on Bitcoin, or about 400 kH/s on Litecoin.

This is closer to the real world performance that I've see, but regardless, LTC is not GPU hostile. If you want to mine LTC, you're far better off getting a PC with 5 GPUs than getting 5 CPUs, just like BitCoin.

Perhaps but keep in mind that the cost to mine with GPUs is NOT free. Hence the fact that it isn't worth while.

At $0.0025 and B 0.0005 per LTC, it's not worth mining PERIOD.

All I can hope for is adoption by miners who drop out of BTC after the reward split and ASIC release 

If they both get profitable mining with GPUs will produce less in terms of net profit unless if the price volatility ends up taking the price waaaay higher.

[kano]

The simple fact is that (at the moment) if you have GPUs and mine for a profit - you don't GPU mine LTC, you GPU mine BTC.
If you want LTC, you still don't GPU mine LTC, you GPU mine BTC and then buy LTC (also boosting the price of LTC)

If you have another reason for GPU mining LTC ... well ... what is it?

[Fuzzy]

If they both get profitable mining with GPUs will produce less in terms of net profit unless if the price volatility ends up taking the price waaaay higher.

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

[crazy_rabbit]

I don't really think we need to worry about making LTC GPU hostile. I think as long as a CPU can mine at least SOME coins, then it's okay. For example, remember the BTC web miners that would generate BTC on a website while you browsed? Well GPU mining killed those dead. But because GPU mining isn't such a large increase in power compared to what GPU mining did for bitcoin, you can still at least mine coins with a CPU. Meaning many more applications like web miners, or mobile phone miners, (Raspberry Pi, etc...) can still 'mine' at least something.

I think that makes a big difference.

[Brunic]

I don't really think we need to worry about making LTC GPU hostile. I think as long as a CPU can mine at least SOME coins, then it's okay. For example, remember the BTC web miners that would generate BTC on a website while you browsed? Well GPU mining killed those dead. But because GPU mining isn't such a large increase in power compared to what GPU mining did for bitcoin, you can still at least mine coins with a CPU. Meaning many more applications like web miners, or mobile phone miners, (Raspberry Pi, etc...) can still 'mine' at least something.

I think that makes a big difference.

Litecoin is the perfect mining complement to Bitcoin mining. I don't how much rigs are in operation in the world, but each of them have a CPU that's currently idle while the GPU works. Since doing GPU-mining is more profitable and logical with BTC, even if the option is possible with LTC, it's not an interesting option. But since CPU are viable for LTC, all those idle CPU from those rigs can be used to mine LTC. I get around 80KH with my CPUs to mine LTC, I think it's pretty good when you consider the alternative is idle CPU.

[Cosbycoin]

If they both get profitable mining with GPUs will produce less in terms of net profit unless if the price volatility ends up taking the price waaaay higher.

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

WTF did u just say? Speak in logical sentences please...

[Fuzzy]

I get around 80KH with my CPUs to mine LTC, I think it's pretty good when you consider the alternative is idle CPU.

If your electricity is free, then yes. OTHERWISE, you're better off taking the money you'd spend on the extra electricity cost of running your CPU at 100%, and buying the LTC that way.

Just some math:

My 2600k eats 100w over idle when mining LTC. That's 2.4 KWrhs per day, and at $0.1 /KWhr that's $0.24 per day. Not very much.

I mine at just under 60 Kh/s, which right now would give you about 60 LTC/day

That's $0.004 per LTC if you mine.

LTC is trading for $0.0025 right now.

[matthewh3]

I don't really think we need to worry about making LTC GPU hostile. I think as long as a CPU can mine at least SOME coins, then it's okay. For example, remember the BTC web miners that would generate BTC on a website while you browsed? Well GPU mining killed those dead. But because GPU mining isn't such a large increase in power compared to what GPU mining did for bitcoin, you can still at least mine coins with a CPU. Meaning many more applications like web miners, or mobile phone miners, (Raspberry Pi, etc...) can still 'mine' at least something.

I think that makes a big difference.

Currently every GPU mining BTC is going to made unprofitable within the next twelve months and a lot of those GPU's may move over to LTC mining.  Making LTC GPU hostile will keep the difficulty down making it even more friendly to low power devices (mobile phones, RaspberryPi's, ect...) and web-miners.

[Cosbycoin]

I get around 80KH with my CPUs to mine LTC, I think it's pretty good when you consider the alternative is idle CPU.

If your electricity is free, then yes. OTHERWISE, you're better off taking the money you'd spend on the extra electricity cost of running your CPU at 100%, and buying the LTC that way.

I agree with this...but then again adding hashing power to the network helps secure it (even as small as it is now)

[matthewh3]

I get around 80KH with my CPUs to mine LTC, I think it's pretty good when you consider the alternative is idle CPU.

If your electricity is free, then yes. OTHERWISE, you're better off taking the money you'd spend on the extra electricity cost of running your CPU at 100%, and buying the LTC that way.

I agree but its very difficult to buy LTC with cash at the moment unless your going via the route of GBP>BTC>LTC.

[Fuzzy]

Is there any chance that litecoin can be changed to again be GPU hostile?

I am not a developer by any stretch, but with the coming of FPGAs and ASICs onto the Bitcoin scene, coupled with the reward split, there are going to be a lot of Ex-Bitcoin GPUs floating around, and I bet a fair number will find their way onto the Litecoin Network.

This may be when Litecoin becomes the "silver" to bitcoin, but there are so many assumptions there, the outlook is a complete wash.

However, GPU hostility is impossible to do with Litecoin, as that sort of change would create a whole new chain/network.

Currently every GPU mining BTC is going to made unprofitable within the next twelve months and a lot of those GPU's may move over to LTC mining.  Making LTC GPU hostile will keep the difficulty down making it even more friendly to low power devices (mobile phones, RaspberryPi's, ect...) and web-miners.

[Cosbycoin]

Is there any chance that litecoin can be changed to again be GPU hostile?

I am not a developer by any stretch, but with the coming of FPGAs and ASICs onto the Bitcoin scene, coupled with the reward split, there are going to be a lot of Ex-Bitcoin GPUs floating around, and I bet a fair number will find their way onto the Litecoin Network.

This may be when Litecoin becomes the "silver" to bitcoin, but there are so many assumptions there, the outlook is a complete wash.

However, GPU hostility is impossible to do with Litecoin, as that sort of change would create a whole new chain/network.

Currently every GPU mining BTC is going to made unprofitable within the next twelve months and a lot of those GPU's may move over to LTC mining.  Making LTC GPU hostile will keep the difficulty down making it even more friendly to low power devices (mobile phones, RaspberryPi's, ect...) and web-miners.

??

[pooler]

However, GPU hostility is impossible to do with Litecoin, as that sort of change would create a whole new chain/network.

Just for the sake of clarity, it is possible to change the algorithm without restarting the chain, it just takes some coding.
The real problem would be devising a hashing algorithm that is more GPU-hostile and ASIC-hostile than scrypt and that is at the same time immune to cryptographic attacks.

[Fuzzy]

However, GPU hostility is impossible to do with Litecoin, as that sort of change would create a whole new chain/network.

Just for the sake of clarity, it is possible to change the algorithm without restarting the chain, it just takes some coding.
The real problem would be devising a hashing algorithm that is more GPU-hostile and ASIC-hostile than scrypt and that is at the same time immune to cryptographic attacks.

There was a thread recently which concluded that this was a practical impossibility for an established network, i.e, it creates a fork in the chain.

[pooler]

However, GPU hostility is impossible to do with Litecoin, as that sort of change would create a whole new chain/network.

Just for the sake of clarity, it is possible to change the algorithm without restarting the chain, it just takes some coding.
The real problem would be devising a hashing algorithm that is more GPU-hostile and ASIC-hostile than scrypt and that is at the same time immune to cryptographic attacks.

There was a thread recently which concluded that this was a practical impossibility for an established network, i.e, it creates a fork in the chain.

That thread refers to a well-established network. Litecoin is nowhere as widespread as Bitcoin, and "political" issues are considerably less complicated.
A mandatory protocol upgrade would of course create a split in the blockchain, but if the transition is carefully planned (so that all the pools and the majority of users all agree on the changes and upgrade their software accordingly) I think there should be no major problem.

As I stated before, however, I don't think that's where the real problem lies.

[coblee]

However, GPU hostility is impossible to do with Litecoin, as that sort of change would create a whole new chain/network.

Just for the sake of clarity, it is possible to change the algorithm without restarting the chain, it just takes some coding.
The real problem would be devising a hashing algorithm that is more GPU-hostile and ASIC-hostile than scrypt and that is at the same time immune to cryptographic attacks.

There was a thread recently which concluded that this was a practical impossibility for an established network, i.e, it creates a fork in the chain.

That thread refers to a well-established network. Litecoin is nowhere as widespread as Bitcoin, and "political" issues are considerably less complicated.
A mandatory protocol upgrade would of course create a split in the blockchain, but if the transition is carefully planned (so that all the pools and the majority of users all agree on the changes and upgrade their software accordingly) I think there should be no major problem.

As I stated before, however, I don't think that's where the real problem lies.

I agree. First of all, most people are ok with Litecoin being GPU mined. I've talked to many people and that majority thinks that I should leave it be since GPU mining does not kill CPU mining like it did in Bitcoin. Secondly, I'm not aware of any algorithm that is truly GPU-hostile. I think it would be really hard (if not impossible) to come up with one. And plus, GPUs will start to have more and more memory. So even if we did come up with an algorithm that is GPU-hostile now, it might not be when next year's GPUs come out. So I think it's a losing proposition to try to fight this. I'm willing to let this play out. My guess is that Litecoin will be one generation behind Bitcoin. While Bitcoin is moving towards FPGA, Litecoin will be GPU mined, and when Bitcoin moves towards ASIC, the FPGAs will be used to mine Litecoin.

[crazy_rabbit]

However, GPU hostility is impossible to do with Litecoin, as that sort of change would create a whole new chain/network.

Just for the sake of clarity, it is possible to change the algorithm without restarting the chain, it just takes some coding.
The real problem would be devising a hashing algorithm that is more GPU-hostile and ASIC-hostile than scrypt and that is at the same time immune to cryptographic attacks.

There was a thread recently which concluded that this was a practical impossibility for an established network, i.e, it creates a fork in the chain.

That thread refers to a well-established network. Litecoin is nowhere as widespread as Bitcoin, and "political" issues are considerably less complicated.
A mandatory protocol upgrade would of course create a split in the blockchain, but if the transition is carefully planned (so that all the pools and the majority of users all agree on the changes and upgrade their software accordingly) I think there should be no major problem.

As I stated before, however, I don't think that's where the real problem lies.

I agree. First of all, most people are ok with Litecoin being GPU mined. I've talked to many people and that majority thinks that I should leave it be since GPU mining does not kill CPU mining like it did in Bitcoin. Secondly, I'm not aware of any algorithm that is truly GPU-hostile. I think it would be really hard (if not impossible) to come up with one. And plus, GPUs will start to have more and more memory. So even if we did come up with an algorithm that is GPU-hostile now, it might not be when next year's GPUs come out. So I think it's a losing proposition to try to fight this. I'm willing to let this play out. My guess is that Litecoin will be one generation behind Bitcoin. While Bitcoin is moving towards FPGA, Litecoin will be GPU mined, and when Bitcoin moves towards ASIC, the FPGAs will be used to mine Litecoin.

I would be okay with this as well. I still think there is a strong argument for the 'silver' to BTC 'gold'. I wouldn't be surprised if BTC ends up being so successful that the 21 million limit in coins turns out to look rather small. Yes of course it's divisible down many decimal places, but if people really end up using it for millions if not billions of transactions, people are going to have a hard time keeping track of how many 0's they have to put in their transactions.

Additionally, I think it means people can keep mining for much longer. LTC comes at a time when BTC is already much farther along. With BTC a great number of coins were mined prior to many people knowing about it and as a result it's complicated to mine now once it's really starting to hit it's stride. I posted before how 'ownership' is an important characteristic of LTC and I think it holds true still. People jumping on LTC and mining with all sorts of processors will help it greatly in the long run.

[Brunic]

I get around 80KH with my CPUs to mine LTC, I think it's pretty good when you consider the alternative is idle CPU.

If your electricity is free, then yes. OTHERWISE, you're better off taking the money you'd spend on the extra electricity cost of running your CPU at 100%, and buying the LTC that way.

I know, but I have the choice of that:
-Waste electricity without any return.
-Use a little more electricity to get LTC in return.

I know it's not profitable right now, but at least, you get something. And maybe, one day, the LTC will get an higher value than it is right now, and get my ROI. I'm doing it considering that maybe, in 5 year from now, LTC will have more value. I try to buy low and sell high