[ANN] Litecoin - a lite version of Bitcoin. Launched!

[terrytibbs]

The website is a template, maybe took 45 min

This is incorrect.

the wiki is nearly devoid of any information and much of what actually is there, has been copy pasted from the btc wiki.

How can I be held responsible, or even questioned for the contents of a publicly editable wiki?

Both sites could be hosted in their current state for under $5 a month. (by the way, at the time of writing this the site is down, maybe he scammed his host too?)

Current state? Sure, but I doubt most shared hosting providers can hold up to an attack as well as my fully redundant 1Gbps lossless dedicated connection can. I am switching hosts, or rather, datacenters, because I am planning on expanding other, unrelated projects.

Your OK with the fact that your users' computers could be compromised and only until it happens will you take action as opposed to taking preventative measures?  You realize people have more sensitive info than Litecoins on their computers right?  You should respect that more. Not very considerate to undermine the security of the general user base.

This statement is true, there is nothing I can do about this in particular. But then again, you seem not to have such an accurate sense of my previous dealings (see below).

Note: What really shows you his character when he keeps peoples money after not delivering the purchased item

This is false, I did deliver the item, and it was working as advertised until my supplier, or the owner of the "stolen" credit card with which the item was purchased, made a chargeback claim.

[coblee]

The website is a template, maybe took 45 min, the wiki is nearly devoid of any information and much of what actually is there, has been copy pasted from the btc wiki.  Both sites could be hosted in their current state for under $5 a month. (by the way, at the time of writing this the site is down, maybe he scammed his host too?)

The fact that he screwed over multiple good people on this forum is OK because he did you a personal favor?

Your OK with the fact that your users' computers could be compromised and only until it happens will you take action as opposed to taking preventative measures?  You realize people have more sensitive info than Litecoins on their computers right?  You should respect that more. Not very considerate to undermine the security of the general user base.

I understand you may have personal trust for him (perhaps unfounded), however letting him run the main litecoin site and wiki raises concern as to the level of respect you have for your users' security.

Note: What really shows you his character when he keeps peoples money after not delivering the purchased item, and expects others to shoulder his financial follies.

All the above is my opinion, nothing less, nothing more; this was written with the utmost concern of the community in mind and no disrespect was intended.

Because I don't have the time and resources to do everything myself, I will have to trust people to help me. Like I've said before, terrytibbs has spent more time and effort than anyone else other than myself into this project. Your 45 minute estimate is way off the mark. In my dealings with terrytibbs, I know that I can trust him with the web hosting. I can trust him with this more than any other person on this forum or on IRC. Or should I trust you instead? You can do the website in 45 minutes and only have to pay $5 for web hosting, so do you want to take over? What if you are actually Tom Williams from mybitcoin.com. How would I know? All I can go by is from my personal history with people.

And why do people trust me? I could easily put malware in the binaries I create. The only thing you can go by is my previous posts here on the forum. So if you trust me, I ask you to trust my judgement on who I choose to help me host the Litecoin websites. If you don't trust my judgement here, then you should probably not visit those websites and only read this forum.

This is the last thing I will say about this issue here. If you want to continue this discussion, please start a new thread.

[chieffery]

Because I don't have the time and resources to do everything myself, I will have to trust people to help me. Like I've said before, terrytibbs has spent more time and effort than anyone else other than myself into this project. Your 45 minute estimate is way off the mark. In my dealings with terrytibbs, I know that I can trust him with the web hosting. I can trust him with this more than any other person on this forum or on IRC. Or should I trust you instead? You can do the website in 45 minutes and only have to pay $5 for web hosting, so do you want to take over? What if you are actually Tom Williams from mybitcoin.com. How would I know? All I can go by is from my personal history with people.

And why do people trust me? I could easily put malware in the binaries I create. The only thing you can go by is my previous posts here on the forum. So if you trust me, I ask you to trust my judgement on who I choose to help me host the Litecoin websites. If you don't trust my judgement here, then you should probably not visit those websites and only read this forum.

This is the last thing I will say about this issue here. If you want to continue this discussion, please start a new thread.

If the offer to take over is sincere, then sure thing I would be more than happy to.  Me believing that you are not malicious with your binaries is not the same as me trusting your judgement in character.  You seem like a nice person and he has a proven record of taking advantage of nice people. 

That said, you decide the future of your coin, not me. 

No need for a new thread/discussion, I've conveyed what I needed to and will leave you to your business

[HolodeckJizzmopper]

Anyone not concerned about the >51% power at lc.ozco.in ? CPU Botnet mining @ 2Mhash/S ?

[tacotime]

Anyone not concerned about the >51% power at lc.ozco.in ? CPU Botnet mining @ 2Mhash/S ?

You would need more than 4mh/s to 51% the network right now... ozcoin doesn't have that much power, even.

[Coinbuck @ BTCLot]

EDIT: I've deposited 20 LTC, who is ready for some fun ?

felt sorry for you so came to play a little cards, time it took to credit my account, you'd gone (that is I assume you're admin)

I've waited a couple of hours but no one came 

That's kinda demotivating.

[Graet]

Anyone not concerned about the >51% power at lc.ozco.in ? CPU Botnet mining @ 2Mhash/S ?

Seems a lot of ppl are worried abot "temp"
But we are not n00b poolops at Ozcoin Pooled Mining Pty Ltd,
As soon  as this miner appeared I investigated.
I am satitisfied this is not a botnet.


And would ANYONE like to explain to me how doing a 51% attack on a new chain at very little price value will help my rep and the sustainability of either of the pools I run or any other cryptocurrency venture I might pursue.....

As to needing 4Mhash now - yesterday for some time we were 70% of the network...

Ozcoin was the 1st BTC pool to open a litecoin pool - we did it because we like the idea of litecoin and its stated aims - not to screw it over.

[johnj]

Anyone not concerned about the >51% power at lc.ozco.in ? CPU Botnet mining @ 2Mhash/S ?

Seems a lot of ppl are worried abot "temp"
But we are not n00b poolops at Ozcoin Pooled Mining Pty Ltd,
As soon  as this miner appeared I investigated.
I am satitisfied this is not a botnet.


And would ANYONE like to explain to me how doing a 51% attack on a new chain at very little price value will help my rep and the sustainability of either of the pools I run or any other cryptocurrency venture I might pursue.....

As to needing 4Mhash now - yesterday for some time we were 70% of the network...

Ozcoin was the 1st BTC pool to open a litecoin pool - we did it because we like the idea of litecoin and its stated aims - not to screw it over.

Yeah, Graet has demonstrated nothing but care courtesy towards his miners and the chains his pools mine on.  S

[DeathAndTaxes]

For those who don't realise it, it is straight forward to work out how long the expected average time to get a block its.

Firstly, however, it is of course an expected average time, not an expected time.
Meaning that if you got say 1 million blocks, then your average time per block should be close to the calculated value, however, for only a few blocks, the average can vary immensely.
According to the Law of Large Numbers, the more blocks you get the closer the average should be to the expected average time.

Anyway, the expected average number of hashes to find a block is 2^32 * difficulty.
At the moment that is: 2^32 * 0.16800443 or 721,573,532 hashes.

So if you hash at 1kh/s your expected average time to find a block will be ~200 hours.
If you hash at 10kh/s your expected average will be ~20 hours.
If you hash at 100kh/s then your expected average will be ~2hours.
etc.

Where did you get the 2^32 from?

Difficulty 1 = one block in 2^32 shares.

So difficulty x = (x)*(2^32)

The 2^32 is somewhat arbitrary but it is equal to difficulty 1.

[HolodeckJizzmopper]

And would ANYONE like to explain to me how doing a 51% attack on a new chain at very little price value will help my rep and the sustainability of either of the pools I run or any other cryptocurrency venture I might pursue.....

 Did not mean you any offense, Graet. You run a high-quality pool. Happily hashing away litecoins at your place.

 I suck at tact and my words come don't come out right sometimes.

 Was more concerned with the tremendous jump in hash rate by "temp" that gave your pool 70% control at one point. It could have been any pool, just noticed it on yours because I mine there.

 Kinda scary seeing that much power thrown at a popular, fledgling branch. Will be interesting to see how this affects Litecoin long term, if at all.

[kano]

For those who don't realise it, it is straight forward to work out how long the expected average time to get a block its.

Firstly, however, it is of course an expected average time, not an expected time.
Meaning that if you got say 1 million blocks, then your average time per block should be close to the calculated value, however, for only a few blocks, the average can vary immensely.
According to the Law of Large Numbers, the more blocks you get the closer the average should be to the expected average time.

Anyway, the expected average number of hashes to find a block is 2^32 * difficulty.
At the moment that is: 2^32 * 0.16800443 or 721,573,532 hashes.

So if you hash at 1kh/s your expected average time to find a block will be ~200 hours.
If you hash at 10kh/s your expected average will be ~20 hours.
If you hash at 100kh/s then your expected average will be ~2hours.
etc.

Where did you get the 2^32 from?

Difficulty 1 = one block in 2^32 shares.

So difficulty x = (x)*(2^32)

The 2^32 is somewhat arbitrary but it is equal to difficulty 1.

Oh didn't notice the question at the bottom of that page. Oops.
It comes from the fact that a difficulty one block has the first 32 bits (of 256) all zero.

e.g. a difficulty one hash is defined as looking something like:
00000000.f77fad94.f1fac4e4.380fe9a6.04c07964.d4af9c4b.3cd5177f.dfebf13f
(I added the '.'s to make it easier to see the 32 bit breaks)

The statistically expected chance of getting one of them is of course 1 in 2^32 (since you want all those 32 bits to be zero)

[worldinacoin]

You charged people money for something, gave them something else then claimed ignorance and washed your hands... frankly it was your business failure not theirs.  Your logic makes about as much sense as asking your supplier for refunds when buyer don't pay.  If your supplier was shady, that is your loss to take, not your honest paying customers...

Anyways, I luckily didn't get scammed by you, my concern is that you don't seem like a very good name to be managing the 2 domains of a new coin.

If you care about the litecoin community then you should disassociate your name from it, doesn't instill much trust having a scammer representing us.

I do not manage the Litecoin domain names. They are managed by coblee, and it was his decision to point them at my servers.

terrytibbs has done more for Litecoin than most people. He designed the webpage and set up the wiki and offered to host the webpages. The fact that he has a disagreement with his customers over a previous dealing has no effect on whether or not he can design a great webpage or host the webpage. Given the amount of time he's put into the project, I trust him.

And the worst he can do is basically put a malware binary as the link to the Litecoin client download. If there's any signs of that, I will definitely switch to a different host.

Note: It really shows you his character when terrytibbs continue to post with his original account. Most scammers will just create a new account and continue to scam others.

I support your stance, and I also feel that this thread should not be used to discuss terrytibbs's character.

[ineededausername]

You charged people money for something, gave them something else then claimed ignorance and washed your hands... frankly it was your business failure not theirs.  Your logic makes about as much sense as asking your supplier for refunds when buyer don't pay.  If your supplier was shady, that is your loss to take, not your honest paying customers...

Anyways, I luckily didn't get scammed by you, my concern is that you don't seem like a very good name to be managing the 2 domains of a new coin.

If you care about the litecoin community then you should disassociate your name from it, doesn't instill much trust having a scammer representing us.

I do not manage the Litecoin domain names. They are managed by coblee, and it was his decision to point them at my servers.

terrytibbs has done more for Litecoin than most people. He designed the webpage and set up the wiki and offered to host the webpages. The fact that he has a disagreement with his customers over a previous dealing has no effect on whether or not he can design a great webpage or host the webpage. Given the amount of time he's put into the project, I trust him.

And the worst he can do is basically put a malware binary as the link to the Litecoin client download. If there's any signs of that, I will definitely switch to a different host.

Note: It really shows you his character when terrytibbs continue to post with his original account. Most scammers will just create a new account and continue to scam others.

I support your stance, and I also feel that this thread should not be used to discuss terrytibbs's character.

+1.  I want to mention that I've done business with terrytibbs before and I can vouch for him.

[coblee]

The next thing I'd like to add to the Litecoin client is the ability to mine at a pool. Matoking built a nice GUI on top of minerd. I will look into incorporating this into the client. See: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=47417.msg587882#msg587882

A similar but opposite feature I'd like work on is for each client to be able to act as a node in a distributed pool.
Something like p2pool: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/P2Pool
Either add a UI for the client to kick off p2pool. Or code up p2pool (or something similar) in C++.
The former will be much simpler, but would be hacky, because litecoin will start/stop/configure p2pool via python scripts, and p2pool will talk to litecoin via RPC calls on localhost.
The latter would be much nicer because the client will communicate with different nodes on the same p2p network as the block chain communication, but it would take considerable amount of work to implement it.

Which of these features do you want?

[Graet]

And would ANYONE like to explain to me how doing a 51% attack on a new chain at very little price value will help my rep and the sustainability of either of the pools I run or any other cryptocurrency venture I might pursue.....

 Did not mean you any offense, Graet. You run a high-quality pool. Happily hashing away litecoins at your place.

 I suck at tact and my words come don't come out right sometimes.

 Was more concerned with the tremendous jump in hash rate by "temp" that gave your pool 70% control at one point. It could have been any pool, just noticed it on yours because I mine there.

 Kinda scary seeing that much power thrown at a popular, fledgling branch. Will be interesting to see how this affects Litecoin long term, if at all.

all good man - no offence taken - I was sort of rushing out to take kids to school when I posted, that was a general question.
Glad you are having a good experience at Ozcoin

But the "OMG 51% thing" is an issue I am dealing with a lot
The interesting thing was as pool hashrate climbed the "unknown" section of the graph at http://litecoin.kicks-ass.org/graphs/graphs.html shrank.
at first we thought it was someone "showing " themselves as he was only on for a short time and then went back to "unknown".
I investigated "temp" as soon as i saw him start overtaking the pool hashrate. I do not think it is my place to release users details in public but I am satisfied this is a legitimate user.
I have also noticed hash spikes on other pools - had wondered if he was "testing" all the pools before he chose one to mine on.

Overnight (my tz) the network hashrate has increased and even with temp, Ozcoin cant currently get over 50%
I sincerely hope these are legit users - all pools need to be on the lookout for the other type

[BitcoinPorn]

When the client is ready enough to accept more users, I think that GUI built in is going to be necessary.

I think a big draw to digital currencies like these was the ability to mine from your home computer.  That ability to do anything you wanted just using your computer.  Bitcoin and pools have taken this out of the hands of the casual user.  CPU mining I felt kind of put it back on more even grounds than video card wars, so if people had that built in, it would be good.  I know the majority of the users here live and die in command line operation systems, but when everyone is done hoarding and ready to accept the general populace, a proper built in miner with options would be good.

Having pool options I guess could be necessary, using SolidCoin's drop down as an example, I would not include the names of any specific pools at all and rather just link to a landing page set up to pull recent pool info and activity.

Also, make a feature to stop the client from freezing my computer

[jago25_98]

Code:

[[22001111--110-24 09:430:-2234]  0t9h:r4e3a:d2 20]:  t3h6r1e8a dh as1h:e s3,0 2
0.45 0h akshhaessh,/ s0ec
.47 khash/sec

^ does this mean the miner has found a block? It's different from the usual:

Code:

[2011-10-24 09:44:58] thread 0: 3175 hashes, 0.56 khash/sec

No extra coins are shown in the client window as I would expect. Been mining for a couple of days and still nothing makes me think there's something wrong even though I can see the rpc user & password are excepted.

[Matoking]

No, the messy output usually happens after long poll.

PROOF OF WORK RESULT: true (yay!!!) means you've found a block if you are solo mining.
False, on the other hand means you've found a block, but were too late to broadcast it to the network. (I've had this happen to me once, it wasn't fun)

The next thing I'd like to add to the Litecoin client is the ability to mine at a pool. Matoking built a nice GUI on top of minerd. I will look into incorporating this into the client. See: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=47417.msg587882#msg587882

Neat.

There is a small problem due to how the minerd executable works, though. The application receives the output only after the output buffer has been filled, which means the GUI doesn't report everything in real-time, and takes a minute to start reporting anything due to the way how minerd works (it won't output anything until a minute has passed).

The mining information (accepted shares, mining speed, etc.) could probably be added under the Wallet subtitle in the Overview page, I'll probably look into it soon.

[322i0n]

The next thing I'd like to add to the Litecoin client is the ability to mine at a pool. Matoking built a nice GUI on top of minerd. I will look into incorporating this into the client. See: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=47417.msg587882#msg587882

A similar but opposite feature I'd like work on is for each client to be able to act as a node in a distributed pool.
Something like p2pool: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/P2Pool
Either add a UI for the client to kick off p2pool. Or code up p2pool (or something similar) in C++.
The former will be much simpler, but would be hacky, because litecoin will start/stop/configure p2pool via python scripts, and p2pool will talk to litecoin via RPC calls on localhost.
The latter would be much nicer because the client will communicate with different nodes on the same p2p network as the block chain communication, but it would take considerable amount of work to implement it.

+1  nice! the latter. maybe something could be done in the interim and hold back the c++ implementation for a future release.

[jago25_98]

No, the messy output usually happens after long poll.

Are you replying to me to say that this isn't a block found:

"[[22001111--110-24 09:430:-2234]  0t9h:r4e3a:d2 20]:  t3h6r1e8a dh as1h:e s3,0 2
0.45 0h akshhaessh,/ s0ec
.47 khash/sec"
 
?