[ANN] Spondoolies-Tech - carrier grade, data center ready mining rigs

[Guy Corem]

In order to survive, Core needs to change its PoW, or else Core miners won’t be able to mine at all.

Classic will have democratic governance but centralized, ASIC based mining.

Core will have meritocratic governance but democratic, GPU based mining.

Please install a breathalyzer on your keyboard.

I have to agree, I was wondering about the mental state that led to a belief the above would occur, but I that's different from whether the ideas are interesting or not.

Not terribly impressed by the central committee of hash.

Yes, I'm working to improve it. Not easy.

[miningmeter]

In order to survive, Core needs to change its PoW, or else Core miners won’t be able to mine at all.

Classic will have democratic governance but centralized, ASIC based mining.

Core will have meritocratic governance but democratic, GPU based mining.

Please install a breathalyzer on your keyboard.

Guy is doing this as Spondoolies is losing value every day.  The SP-50 is not even here they cant manage their own next gen, even if they did it is already beat by Bitfury.  

Spondoolies sold gear and did not have a problem when on top.  Now they are slipping more and more.  This is making Guy sound desperate a change to Bitcoin just so they stay a profitable company in coming years.

A central committee of hash to decide things... that is called centralization.  Bitcoin is a good protocol your company is just on it's way out of the game.  How much money went in SP50 to be beat before it even was sold?  

[smooth]

In order to survive, Core needs to change its PoW, or else Core miners won’t be able to mine at all.

Classic will have democratic governance but centralized, ASIC based mining.

Core will have meritocratic governance but democratic, GPU based mining.

Please install a breathalyzer on your keyboard.

Guy is doing this as Spondoolies is losing value every day.

As far as I can tell as a complete outsider, they're finished.

So consider all that to be a sunk cost. Lessons learned by the admirable experience of having tried and failed.

What he's writing about now has no obvious relevance to a mining equipment company. Do you think Spondoolies has some new GPU they're trying to sell, because that's the only miner-related agenda that would make sense here.

I'm not really a close follower though, so some or all of the above may be wrong.

[miningmeter]

In order to survive, Core needs to change its PoW, or else Core miners won’t be able to mine at all.

Classic will have democratic governance but centralized, ASIC based mining.

Core will have meritocratic governance but democratic, GPU based mining.

Please install a breathalyzer on your keyboard.

Guy is doing this as Spondoolies is losing value every day.

As far as I can tell as a complete outsider, they're finished.

So consider all that to be a sunk cost. Lessons learned by the admirable experience of having tried and failed.

What he's writing about now has no obvious relevance to a mining equipment company. Do you think Spondoolies has some new GPU they're trying to sell, because that's the only miner-related agenda that would make sense here.

I'm not really a close follower though, so some or all of the above may be wrong.

I to am a outsider, but one who read when they went public the amount of bonus money they paid them staff at top levels.  He wants that to continue, who would not?

But he is writing this as he is hoping to change things now they have no good future outcome.  They have old gear getting older.  They worked on a chip that is out of date before it hit market.  

So do you think he would love to change it where there is a new agenda that put's him on same level as bitfury?   Heck yea.  He is grasping at straws hoping change so they can do a new investment that is not already lost.  

[ripper234]

Can it be Core and Classic instead of Core vs Classic ?

My discussion with Jonathan Toomim in "Miner In World" WeChat group.

http://pastebin.com/B8YQr5TQ

I'm working on a proposal for a rotating PoW changes to allow Core to survive Classic activation and bring an era of endless GPU mining to Core.

Please take the time to read it and comment.

Guy

I think the problem you are trying to solve isn't real.
I think Core and Classic will converge to friendly competition, and be on the same blockchain. There will not be an actual work between these two groups.
My 2 cents.

[Guy Corem]

Can it be Core and Classic instead of Core vs Classic ?

My discussion with Jonathan Toomim in "Miner In World" WeChat group.

http://pastebin.com/B8YQr5TQ

I'm working on a proposal for a rotating PoW changes to allow Core to survive Classic activation and bring an era of endless GPU mining to Core.

Please take the time to read it and comment.

Guy

I think the problem you are trying to solve isn't real.
I think Core and Classic will converge to friendly competition, and be on the same blockchain. There will not be an actual work between these two groups.
My 2 cents.

So,
My estimation is that Core team will split. Some will continue to work on Core but on Classic chain, buy some will prefer to do PoW (and Transaction ID) change rather to submit to the new governance.

Guy

Edit: Interesting times. I think that two competing Chains is the favorable outcome. Each will be entitled to the name "Bitcoin" since both came into existence after hard-fork.

[miningmeter]

Can it be Core and Classic instead of Core vs Classic ?

My discussion with Jonathan Toomim in "Miner In World" WeChat group.

http://pastebin.com/B8YQr5TQ

I'm working on a proposal for a rotating PoW changes to allow Core to survive Classic activation and bring an era of endless GPU mining to Core.

Please take the time to read it and comment.

Guy

I think the problem you are trying to solve isn't real.
I think Core and Classic will converge to friendly competition, and be on the same blockchain. There will not be an actual work between these two groups.
My 2 cents.

So,
My estimation is that Core team will split. Some will continue to work on Core but on Classic chain, buy some will prefer to do PoW (and Transaction ID) change rather to submit to the new governance.

Guy

And you will be there to give new governance to it?  He wants to start a central committee of hash and for him to be part of it.  He does this out of his company falling apart. They went from giving huge bonus to all top level employees to being beat by Bitfury where no one with big orders will want a SP50.

He is trying to find way to stay relevant.  This is one attempt at it.  He will not be able to do it.

[smooth]

Can it be Core and Classic instead of Core vs Classic ?

My discussion with Jonathan Toomim in "Miner In World" WeChat group.

http://pastebin.com/B8YQr5TQ

I'm working on a proposal for a rotating PoW changes to allow Core to survive Classic activation and bring an era of endless GPU mining to Core.

Please take the time to read it and comment.

Guy

I think the problem you are trying to solve isn't real.
I think Core and Classic will converge to friendly competition, and be on the same blockchain. There will not be an actual work between these two groups.
My 2 cents.

So,
My estimation is that Core team will split. Some will continue to work on Core but on Classic chain, buy some will prefer to do PoW (and Transaction ID) change rather to submit to the new governance.

Guy

And you will be there to give new governance to it?  He wants to start a central committee of hash and for him to be part of it.  He does this out of his company falling apart. They went from giving huge bonus to all top level employees to being beat by Bitfury where no one with big orders will want a SP50.

He is trying to find way to stay relevant.  This is one attempt at it.  He will not be able to do it.

Seems like a pointless personal attack by you (even as I agree the committee is a dumb idea). The proposal from him I saw was for the term on the committee to be limited so even if he were on it, he wouldn't be on it for long. So what?

[miningmeter]

Can it be Core and Classic instead of Core vs Classic ?

My discussion with Jonathan Toomim in "Miner In World" WeChat group.

http://pastebin.com/B8YQr5TQ

I'm working on a proposal for a rotating PoW changes to allow Core to survive Classic activation and bring an era of endless GPU mining to Core.

Please take the time to read it and comment.

Guy

I think the problem you are trying to solve isn't real.
I think Core and Classic will converge to friendly competition, and be on the same blockchain. There will not be an actual work between these two groups.
My 2 cents.

So,
My estimation is that Core team will split. Some will continue to work on Core but on Classic chain, buy some will prefer to do PoW (and Transaction ID) change rather to submit to the new governance.

Guy

And you will be there to give new governance to it?  He wants to start a central committee of hash and for him to be part of it.  He does this out of his company falling apart. They went from giving huge bonus to all top level employees to being beat by Bitfury where no one with big orders will want a SP50.

He is trying to find way to stay relevant.  This is one attempt at it.  He will not be able to do it.

Seems like a pointless personal attack by you (even as I agree the committee is a dumb idea). The proposal from him I saw was for the term on the committee to be limited so even if he were on it, he wouldn't be on it for long. So what?

So a company that lost in the asic race wants to start a new way of profit via committee.  Spondoolies is growing unprofitable look at the data, they have to release after being public. 

If they won the asic race they would not be pushing for this.  The SP50 sealed the deal on them going away, unless they can pull something like this.   Have you read their company stats? 

[smooth]

Can it be Core and Classic instead of Core vs Classic ?

My discussion with Jonathan Toomim in "Miner In World" WeChat group.

http://pastebin.com/B8YQr5TQ

I'm working on a proposal for a rotating PoW changes to allow Core to survive Classic activation and bring an era of endless GPU mining to Core.

Please take the time to read it and comment.

Guy

I think the problem you are trying to solve isn't real.
I think Core and Classic will converge to friendly competition, and be on the same blockchain. There will not be an actual work between these two groups.
My 2 cents.

So,
My estimation is that Core team will split. Some will continue to work on Core but on Classic chain, buy some will prefer to do PoW (and Transaction ID) change rather to submit to the new governance.

Guy

And you will be there to give new governance to it?  He wants to start a central committee of hash and for him to be part of it.  He does this out of his company falling apart. They went from giving huge bonus to all top level employees to being beat by Bitfury where no one with big orders will want a SP50.

He is trying to find way to stay relevant.  This is one attempt at it.  He will not be able to do it.

Seems like a pointless personal attack by you (even as I agree the committee is a dumb idea). The proposal from him I saw was for the term on the committee to be limited so even if he were on it, he wouldn't be on it for long. So what?

So a company that lost in the asic race wants to start a new way of profit via committee.  Spondoolies is growing unprofitable look at the data, they have to release after being public. 

If they won the asic race they would not be pushing for this.  The SP50 sealed the deal on them going away, unless they can pull something like this.   Have you read their company stats? 

How are they going to profit from this? Competing with AMD or NVIDIA on GPUs?

[miningmeter]

Can it be Core and Classic instead of Core vs Classic ?

My discussion with Jonathan Toomim in "Miner In World" WeChat group.

http://pastebin.com/B8YQr5TQ

I'm working on a proposal for a rotating PoW changes to allow Core to survive Classic activation and bring an era of endless GPU mining to Core.

Please take the time to read it and comment.

Guy

I think the problem you are trying to solve isn't real.
I think Core and Classic will converge to friendly competition, and be on the same blockchain. There will not be an actual work between these two groups.
My 2 cents.

So,
My estimation is that Core team will split. Some will continue to work on Core but on Classic chain, buy some will prefer to do PoW (and Transaction ID) change rather to submit to the new governance.

Guy

And you will be there to give new governance to it?  He wants to start a central committee of hash and for him to be part of it.  He does this out of his company falling apart. They went from giving huge bonus to all top level employees to being beat by Bitfury where no one with big orders will want a SP50.

He is trying to find way to stay relevant.  This is one attempt at it.  He will not be able to do it.

Seems like a pointless personal attack by you (even as I agree the committee is a dumb idea). The proposal from him I saw was for the term on the committee to be limited so even if he were on it, he wouldn't be on it for long. So what?

So a company that lost in the asic race wants to start a new way of profit via committee.  Spondoolies is growing unprofitable look at the data, they have to release after being public. 

If they won the asic race they would not be pushing for this.  The SP50 sealed the deal on them going away, unless they can pull something like this.   Have you read their company stats? 

How they going to profit from this? Competing with AMD or NVIDIA on GPUs?

It's about trying to get all companies on same level.  Do you not see he pushes from asics after losing on development?

Mining on Bitcoin will not go back to GPU's its a attempt to go to something other then asic which they are losing at.  They want to be on same level as bitfury, so change the protocol since cant match chips.

They never had a problem when they were ontop and making tons.  Only after they were beat in the asic development do they want to change protocol.  I will not waste more time on Guy.  Time to get back to work.

[smooth]

Can it be Core and Classic instead of Core vs Classic ?

My discussion with Jonathan Toomim in "Miner In World" WeChat group.

http://pastebin.com/B8YQr5TQ

I'm working on a proposal for a rotating PoW changes to allow Core to survive Classic activation and bring an era of endless GPU mining to Core.

Please take the time to read it and comment.

Guy

I think the problem you are trying to solve isn't real.
I think Core and Classic will converge to friendly competition, and be on the same blockchain. There will not be an actual work between these two groups.
My 2 cents.

So,
My estimation is that Core team will split. Some will continue to work on Core but on Classic chain, buy some will prefer to do PoW (and Transaction ID) change rather to submit to the new governance.

Guy

And you will be there to give new governance to it?  He wants to start a central committee of hash and for him to be part of it.  He does this out of his company falling apart. They went from giving huge bonus to all top level employees to being beat by Bitfury where no one with big orders will want a SP50.

He is trying to find way to stay relevant.  This is one attempt at it.  He will not be able to do it.

Seems like a pointless personal attack by you (even as I agree the committee is a dumb idea). The proposal from him I saw was for the term on the committee to be limited so even if he were on it, he wouldn't be on it for long. So what?

So a company that lost in the asic race wants to start a new way of profit via committee.  Spondoolies is growing unprofitable look at the data, they have to release after being public. 

If they won the asic race they would not be pushing for this.  The SP50 sealed the deal on them going away, unless they can pull something like this.   Have you read their company stats? 

How they going to profit from this? Competing with AMD or NVIDIA on GPUs?

It's about trying to get all companies on same level.  Do you not see he pushes from asics after losing on development?

Mining on Bitcoin will not go back to GPU's its a attempt to go to something other then asic which they are losing at.  They want to be on same level as bitfury, so change the protocol since cant match chips.

They never had a problem when they were ontop and making tons.  Only after they were beat in the asic development do they want to change protocol.  I will not waste more time on Guy.  Time to get back to work.

How is Guy going to make money from this? Be specific.

[Guy Corem]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1334468.msg13615122#msg13615122

[Guy Corem]

Another interesting proposal is Cuckoo hash by John Tromp:
https://github.com/tromp/cuckoo

[jtoomim]

Changing the PoW function is pretty crazy. I was disappointed that Guy was taking these threats seriously.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/41vqbo/bitcoindev_pieter_wuillle_its_ridiculous_to/

><sipa> Luke-Jr: they may, but it's ridiculous to propose that at this point, sorry
>...
>so do not worry, i have no intention of merging such a thing


Matt Corallo and I touched on the topic later:

http://imgur.com/4i61zYI

>thebluematt: He is... The threat mostly isn't serious

Luke may create his Keccak hash function fork; he already has the code. But it's not going to be called Core.

[Guy Corem]

Changing the PoW function is pretty crazy. I was disappointed that Guy was taking these threats seriously.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/41vqbo/bitcoindev_pieter_wuillle_its_ridiculous_to/

><sipa> Luke-Jr: they may, but it's ridiculous to propose that at this point, sorry
>...
>so do not worry, i have no intention of merging such a thing


Matt Corallo and I touched on the topic later:

http://imgur.com/4i61zYI

>thebluematt: He is... The threat mostly isn't serious

Luke may create his Keccak hash function fork; he already has the code. But it's not going to be called Core.

You keep referring to it as a threat. I believe that the remaining devs in Core will do it.
We went through it in our chat yesterday. You agreed on 75% chance that it will happen.

So if they will do it, I think that they should do it in a way which will prevent ASIC-ization.
Memory bound hashing is very good suggestion: https://github.com/tromp/cuckoo

Guy

[mavericklm]

Who the fuck is this classic?

I thought this was the thread of a asic manufacturer....

Where is my last generation SP-tech asic?! i want it in my watercooled miner...

[smooth]

Changing the PoW function is pretty crazy.

It may be. The state of Bitcoin mining is also pretty crazy.

[Guy Corem]

Changing the PoW function is pretty crazy.

It may be. The state of Bitcoin mining is also pretty crazy.

The state of Bitcoin mining is also pretty crazy.

[Unacceptable]

Can it be Core and Classic instead of Core vs Classic ?

My discussion with Jonathan Toomim in "Miner In World" WeChat group.

http://pastebin.com/B8YQr5TQ

I'm working on a proposal for a rotating PoW changes to allow Core to survive Classic activation and bring an era of endless GPU mining to Core.

Please take the time to read it and comment.

Guy

I think the problem you are trying to solve isn't real.
I think Core and Classic will converge to friendly competition, and be on the same blockchain. There will not be an actual work between these two groups.
My 2 cents.

So,
My estimation is that Core team will split. Some will continue to work on Core but on Classic chain, buy some will prefer to do PoW (and Transaction ID) change rather to submit to the new governance.

Guy

Edit: Interesting times. I think that two competing Chains is the favorable outcome. Each will be entitled to the name "Bitcoin" since both came into existence after hard-fork.

Someone from Avalon tried that a few years ago....didn't work out too well for him