Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress]

[swogerino]

I posted about it few days ago:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5382794.msg62123449#msg62123449
I just can't understand how they can be so dumb.

They are not only so dumb, they also desperately trying to pass off what they wish for reality. They do not have enough resources, they are trying to increase the production of equipment, as always they multiply quantity at the expense of quality, and in the end they suffer themselves. They are ready to go to the most cruel, most stupid, destructive deeds just to please their leader, who himself does not understand where reality begins and ends. An adequate person cannot understand this supreme stupidity, because in order to understand it, one would have to abandon objective perception and immerse one's life in a myth that has been created for decades and destroys the lives of millions of people, both in their own country and in other countries.

That is true.Russia has been immersing themselves in such a bad situation that even if the war ends right now they need a good 20-40 years to go back to the state they were before starting this illegal war.They have committed horrible war crimes which thanks to the technology right now are well documented different from wars that have taken place before like WW2.Their leader is the sole responsible for this failure,he started the war as he did not want NATO near his borders and yet he has added another 1300 km borders to Russia from Finland who joined NATO a couple of months ago.I am not astonished by this though,I know what kind of evil Russian government people are but what I am astonished is that ordinary Russians support their government,that is the sad part of this.

[paxmao]

Found a cool site that is documenting every known piece of equipment that is destroyed, damaged, abandoned or captured with images of everything.

Ukraine:
Tanks (490, of which destroyed: 302, damaged: 29, abandoned: 19, captured: 140)
Infantry Fighting Vehicles (523, of which destroyed: 371, damaged: 13, abandoned: 31, captured: 108)

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-ukrainian.html


Russia:
Tanks (1907, of which destroyed: 1161, damaged: 101, abandoned: 101, captured: 544)
Infantry Fighting Vehicles (2319, of which destroyed: 1508, damaged: 73, abandoned: 129, captured: 607)

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html

I have seen those estimates as well. These sites usually document confirmed losses, that is, with certain documentary evidence of them being destroyed. There is however a very large number of undocumented kills and what is more interesting, documented kills that are not actually kills..

https://www.economist.com/europe/2023/04/17/how-ukraine-is-using-fake-tanks-and-guns-to-confuse-the-russians

However, despite the questionable numbers, it is clear that RF cannot replenish the tanks as they are being lost. They are using up their stores or stored tanks, which many times can only be repaired using 3 vehicles to get one fully working, many times without some of the systems and many many times wihtout the most advanced sights, comms and other tech-intensive features.

[TwitchySeal]

Found a cool site that is documenting every known piece of equipment that is destroyed, damaged, abandoned or captured with images of everything.

Ukraine:
Tanks (490, of which destroyed: 302, damaged: 29, abandoned: 19, captured: 140)
Infantry Fighting Vehicles (523, of which destroyed: 371, damaged: 13, abandoned: 31, captured: 108)

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-ukrainian.html


Russia:
Tanks (1907, of which destroyed: 1161, damaged: 101, abandoned: 101, captured: 544)
Infantry Fighting Vehicles (2319, of which destroyed: 1508, damaged: 73, abandoned: 129, captured: 607)

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html

I have seen those estimates as well. These sites usually document confirmed losses, that is, with certain documentary evidence of them being destroyed. There is however a very large number of undocumented kills and what is more interesting, documented kills that are not actually kills..

https://www.economist.com/europe/2023/04/17/how-ukraine-is-using-fake-tanks-and-guns-to-confuse-the-russians

However, despite the questionable numbers, it is clear that RF cannot replenish the tanks as they are being lost. They are using up their stores or stored tanks, which many times can only be repaired using 3 vehicles to get one fully working, many times without some of the systems and many many times wihtout the most advanced sights, comms and other tech-intensive features.

Before Feb 2023, the basically undisputed top 3 militaries in the world were 1- USA, 2-Russia, 3-China

I wonder if China is #2 yet.  One of Russia's biggest advantages was tanks...

[Branko]

Russians were smart enough to deescalate during Cuban crisis
Americans during Ukraine crisis...not so much
USA seems eager to start war between China and Taiwan too...I guess
they calculated there's no other way out of 31 trillion debt

[swogerino]

Russians were smart enough to deescalate during Cuban crisis
Americans during Ukraine crisis...not so much
USA seems eager to start war between China and Taiwan too...I guess
they calculated there's no other way out of 31 trillion debt

Nice theory and maybe true for China and Taiwan but it seems they have calculated well the war in Ukraine too and Putin fell to this trap like a stupid fish.He made his army extremely weak after almost 1.5 years war where he is losing everything from personnel to every kind of artillery and machinery.Russian economy is down on its knees and with this move USA did put out of the way Russia as they are not worthy anymore,no one takes them seriously now,they thought to win the war in three days but even with the passing of three years I doubt they will win anything and even in the remote case that they win and get the 4 new areas,it is inevitable that Ukraine will join NATO then and Russia will be completely isolated,Russian have lost their game this time.

[tvbcof]

Russians were smart enough to deescalate during Cuban crisis
Americans during Ukraine crisis...not so much
USA seems eager to start war between China and Taiwan too...I guess
they calculated there's no other way out of 31 trillion debt

Nice theory and maybe true for China and Taiwan but it seems they have calculated well the war in Ukraine too and Putin fell to this trap like a stupid fish.He made his army extremely weak after almost 1.5 years war where he is losing everything from personnel to every kind of artillery and machinery.Russian economy is down on its knees and with this move USA did put out of the way Russia as they are not worthy anymore,no one takes them seriously now,they thought to win the war in three days but even with the passing of three years I doubt they will win anything and even in the remote case that they win and get the 4 new areas,it is inevitable that Ukraine will join NATO then and Russia will be completely isolated,Russian have lost their game this time.

OTA updates of UKRO..TV device confirmed functional.

[paxmao]

Russians were smart enough to deescalate during Cuban crisis
Americans during Ukraine crisis...not so much
USA seems eager to start war between China and Taiwan too...I guess
they calculated there's no other way out of 31 trillion debt

And again, somehow Putin invades Ukraine, orders the massive kidnapping of children, flattens cities, kills civilians and military without any distinction, but for Branko all this is about the US "not being able to de-escalate" - meaning accepting the de-facto situation and white-washing the invasion current result.

And we could now go on your comment on the missiles crisis, in which somehow you notice how the former USSR (not Putin's RF by the way) decided to remove the missiles from CUba, but you fail to notice that it was in exchange for the US removing theirs from Turkiya.

As alwasy, one eye open, one eye close, one measure for you who you believe are your friends, one for anyone else.

Russians were smart enough to deescalate during Cuban crisis
Americans during Ukraine crisis...not so much
USA seems eager to start war between China and Taiwan too...I guess
they calculated there's no other way out of 31 trillion debt

Nice theory and maybe true for China and Taiwan but it seems they have calculated well the war in Ukraine too and Putin fell to this trap like a stupid fish.He made his army extremely weak after almost 1.5 years war where he is losing everything from personnel to every kind of artillery and machinery.Russian economy is down on its knees and with this move USA did put out of the way Russia as they are not worthy anymore,no one takes them seriously now,they thought to win the war in three days but even with the passing of three years I doubt they will win anything and even in the remote case that they win and get the 4 new areas,it is inevitable that Ukraine will join NATO then and Russia will be completely isolated,Russian have lost their game this time.

The US is worried of China using the opportunity to invade Taiwan, in which case there would be two fronts. All this muscle flexing is just to show that the US can support Ukraine and still defend Taiwan.

[tvbcof]

And again, somehow Putin invades Ukraine, orders the massive kidnapping of children, flattens cities, kills civilians and military without any distinction, but for Branko all this is about the US "not being able to de-escalate" - meaning accepting the de-facto situation and white-washing the invasion current result.
...

By analysis of all of the credible information I can piece together, Ukraine made massive use of human shields and still does.  This is not at all surprising considering various of the ZioNazis installed in 2014 couldn't stop talking about the need to ethnically cleanse the populations of the Eastern parts of the country and were actively working on it by bombing the shit out of them.  Anyway, taking care of the surviving human shields deployed by the NaZiocons hardly qualifies as 'kidnapping' (...without the assistance of the 'UKRO..TV' device mentioned above.)

Probably THE biggest thing which made me basically a fan of the political and military leadership of Russia was how they managed to effectively deal with the very unfortunate and very degenerate tactics used by Ukraine (and their NATO handlers) with regard to civilian life.  I still have massive distrust of the Russian deep state, but I have to acknowledge the on-the-ground realities of the way they have prosecuted the special military operation so far.  In a variety of ways it seems to me to be without precedent.

---

Edit since I've got the last post:

Here's an especially good example of Cringe Clown-shoe 'Western' governance.  This one expressed in Estonia to the suprise of no-one who follows this stuff.

  Estonian Defense Minister Hanno Pevkur shows his support for Ukraine OMG!
  https://www.bitchute.com/video/ks9EbXqIzcT1/

I'll bet $100 that new defense minister Handy Pervkorp or whatever his name is is a WEF inject.  He has 'that look' so-to-speak, and Satan Klaus himself claims to own most of the cabinets in these hapless micro-states.

[paxmao]

And again, somehow Putin invades Ukraine, orders the massive kidnapping of children, flattens cities, kills civilians and military without any distinction, but for Branko all this is about the US "not being able to de-escalate" - meaning accepting the de-facto situation and white-washing the invasion current result.
...

By analysis of all of the credible information I can piece together, Ukraine made massive use of human shields and still does.
....

That is false information, obviously without any proof attached other than your xenophobic discourse. People leave in cities. The RF is shelling cities often with no strategic objective nor other reason than to create panic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_abductions_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine

During the Russian invasion of Ukraine, Russia has forcibly transferred thousands of Ukrainian children to areas under its control, assigned them Russian citizenship, forcibly adopted them into Russian families, and created obstacles for their reunification with their parents and homeland.[3] Evidence of this has been collected during investigations conducted by several international organizations and groups, including the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, The International Criminal Court, Amnesty International and Missing Children Europe, and by journalists for media outlets such as The Observer and Al Jazeera.[4

Looks like a dystopia, something so difficult to believe, yet so real. And this calls from the ones calling "nazi" here and "nazi" there to anything that is not what they want to hear.

Is Al Jazeera a "Ziocon" organisation? Amnesty International? You are really running our of credibility, if a xenophobic discourse like yours had any ever.

[Branko]

Russians were smart enough to deescalate during Cuban crisis
Americans during Ukraine crisis...not so much
USA seems eager to start war between China and Taiwan too...I guess
they calculated there's no other way out of 31 trillion debt

Nice theory and maybe true for China and Taiwan but it seems they have calculated well the war in Ukraine too and Putin fell to this trap like a stupid fish.He made his army extremely weak after almost 1.5 years war where he is losing everything from personnel to every kind of artillery and machinery.Russian economy is down on its knees and with this move USA did put out of the way Russia as they are not worthy anymore,no one takes them seriously now,they thought to win the war in three days but even with the passing of three years I doubt they will win anything and even in the remote case that they win and get the 4 new areas,it is inevitable that Ukraine will join NATO then and Russia will be completely isolated,Russian have lost their game this time.

You're just parroting western propaganda here, and most of your points are exactly the opposite

[be.open]

And again, somehow Putin invades Ukraine, orders the massive kidnapping of children, flattens cities, kills civilians and military without any distinction, but for Branko all this is about the US "not being able to de-escalate" - meaning accepting the de-facto situation and white-washing the invasion current result.
...

By analysis of all of the credible information I can piece together, Ukraine made massive use of human shields and still does.
....

That is false information, obviously without any proof attached other than your xenophobic discourse. People leave in cities. The RF is shelling cities often with no strategic objective nor other reason than to create panic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_abductions_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine

During the Russian invasion of Ukraine, Russia has forcibly transferred thousands of Ukrainian children to areas under its control, assigned them Russian citizenship, forcibly adopted them into Russian families, and created obstacles for their reunification with their parents and homeland.[3] Evidence of this has been collected during investigations conducted by several international organizations and groups, including the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, The International Criminal Court, Amnesty International and Missing Children Europe, and by journalists for media outlets such as The Observer and Al Jazeera.[4

Looks like a dystopia, something so difficult to believe, yet so real. And this calls from the ones calling "nazi" here and "nazi" there to anything that is not what they want to hear.

Is Al Jazeera a "Ziocon" organisation? Amnesty International? You are really running our of credibility, if a xenophobic discourse like yours had any ever.

The basis for the ICC warrant was the report of the Conflict Observatory NGO, which was created by the US State Department specifically "to investigate Russian atrocities in Ukraine."

According to the authors, they did not conduct interviews with witnesses or victims, but only collected information available from open sources, most of which are Russian-language media, using Google Translate or Deepl. As stated in the report, children from different settlements of the LPR and DPR received vouchers to Russian camps, while "most of the parents, as it turned out, gave their consent for the child to visit the camp." At the same time, vouchers "were provided to children from Ukraine absolutely free of charge." “Many of these parents are on a low income and wanted to take advantage of the free ride for their child. Some hoped to protect their children from the ongoing fighting, send them to a place with good sanitation, or provide them with nutritious food not available where they live. Other parents just wanted their child to have a vacation."

The report also said that the children were taught a "school curriculum", conducted "free educational excursions to cultural or patriotic places throughout the country", lectures by Russian veterans and historians, and military events. Local government officials and agencies provided school supplies. Also, “in the camps covered in this report, there are no records of child abuse, including sexual or physical abuse” and “almost all camp participants returned home in a timely manner.”

Now evaluate what wording is applied to these actions in the report. The offer of free trips is "mobilization for the recruitment of children." The field trips and school program are "political re-education" to "erase his identity" and the lack of information about abuse is due not to the absence of such treatment, but to "cover-up due to cultural stigma and the risk of retaliation."

[Branko]

Now evaluate what wording is applied to these actions in the report. The offer of free trips is "mobilization for the recruitment of children." The field trips and school program are "political re-education" to "erase his identity" and the lack of information about abuse is due not to the absence of such treatment, but to "cover-up due to cultural stigma and the risk of retaliation."

https://twitter.com/vicktop55/status/1649290778965835776

Pretty interesting talk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBUbLpwig5g

[be.open]

Now evaluate what wording is applied to these actions in the report. The offer of free trips is "mobilization for the recruitment of children." The field trips and school program are "political re-education" to "erase his identity" and the lack of information about abuse is due not to the absence of such treatment, but to "cover-up due to cultural stigma and the risk of retaliation."

https://twitter.com/vicktop55/status/1649290778965835776

Pretty interesting talk

I think the main purpose of this ICC warrant was an attempt to disrupt Xi's visit to Moscow, and when this failed, everyone somehow quickly forgot about the warrant, as if it did not exist at all. Along the way, it turned out that the prosecutor who signed the arrest warrant has a pedophile brother (which was probably the lever of influence on him from the US State Department, they love such methods). This whole story is not worth a damn, if Putin is accused of such savagery sucked from the finger as kidnapping, then there is nothing to accuse him of at all. Even the production in Bucha was more believable.

[o48o]

-cut-
I think the main purpose of this ICC warrant was an attempt to disrupt Xi's visit to Moscow, and when this failed, everyone somehow quickly forgot about the warrant, as if it did not exist at all.
-cut-

Well that's some brain gymnastics right there. Why would it disrupt Xi's visit? Xi isn't really a price winning human rights activist either as they don't even recognize Dutch extradition treaty.
It sounds like you are just undermining the legitimacy of the warrant. And yeah, warrant exist, you would know this if you just looked it up, why do you think it's forgotten? Don't tell me, because he isn't arrested?
Nah, that would be a stupid answer.

https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/statement-prosecutor-karim-khan-kc-issuance-arrest-warrants-against-president-vladimir-putin

[Branko]

-cut-
I think the main purpose of this ICC warrant was an attempt to disrupt Xi's visit to Moscow, and when this failed, everyone somehow quickly forgot about the warrant, as if it did not exist at all.
-cut-

Well that's some brain gymnastics right there. Why would it disrupt Xi's visit? Xi isn't really a price winning human rights activist either as they don't even recognize Dutch extradition treaty.
It sounds like you are just undermining the legitimacy of the warrant. And yeah, warrant exist, you would know this if you just looked it up, why do you think it's forgotten? Don't tell me, because he isn't arrested?
Nah, that would be a stupid answer.

https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/statement-prosecutor-karim-khan-kc-issuance-arrest-warrants-against-president-vladimir-putin

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/may/23/imran-ahmad-khan-sentenced-to-18-months-over-sexual-assault-of-boy-15

[be.open]

-cut-
I think the main purpose of this ICC warrant was an attempt to disrupt Xi's visit to Moscow, and when this failed, everyone somehow quickly forgot about the warrant, as if it did not exist at all.
-cut-

Well that's some brain gymnastics right there. Why would it disrupt Xi's visit? Xi isn't really a price winning human rights activist either as they don't even recognize Dutch extradition treaty.
It sounds like you are just undermining the legitimacy of the warrant. And yeah, warrant exist, you would know this if you just looked it up, why do you think it's forgotten? Don't tell me, because he isn't arrested?
Nah, that would be a stupid answer.

https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/statement-prosecutor-karim-khan-kc-issuance-arrest-warrants-against-president-vladimir-putin

Russia has not ratified the Rome Statute, so for Russian citizens this warrant is a legally insignificant piece of paper. It happens, the USA, Ukraine, China and many other countries have not ratified the Rome Statute either. Moreover, according to the Constitution of the Russian Federation, the incumbent president cannot be held criminally liable. And also in accordance with the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Crimes against Internationally Protected Persons (Adopted by resolution 3166 (XXVIII) of the UN General Assembly of December 14, 1973), heads of state enjoy absolute immunity. It sounds like you are just undermining the legitimacy of this Convention.

[Etranger]

I posted about it few days ago:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5382794.msg62123449#msg62123449
I just can't understand how they can be so dumb.

They are not only so dumb, they also desperately trying to pass off what they wish for reality. They do not have enough resources, they are trying to increase the production of equipment, as always they multiply quantity at the expense of quality, and in the end they suffer themselves. They are ready to go to the most cruel, most stupid, destructive deeds just to please their leader, who himself does not understand where reality begins and ends. An adequate person cannot understand this supreme stupidity, because in order to understand it, one would have to abandon objective perception and immerse one's life in a myth that has been created for decades and destroys the lives of millions of people, both in their own country and in other countries.

That is true.Russia has been immersing themselves in such a bad situation that even if the war ends right now they need a good 20-40 years to go back to the state they were before starting this illegal war.They have committed horrible war crimes which thanks to the technology right now are well documented different from wars that have taken place before like WW2.Their leader is the sole responsible for this failure,he started the war as he did not want NATO near his borders and yet he has added another 1300 km borders to Russia from Finland who joined NATO a couple of months ago.I am not astonished by this though,I know what kind of evil Russian government people are but what I am astonished is that ordinary Russians support their government,that is the sad part of this.

One man can not be solely blamed for such a catastrophe we have right now. The propaganda machine that legitimizes all their crimes is not created by one person, it is simply impossible. Of course, their leader is a key figure who gathered a gang around him, and to whom he gave orders. But now the situation has already gotten out of even his frantic control, because this system is so entrenched that even he cannot remain outside its influence, therefore he himself is subject to propaganda, at the origins of which he stood. He does not receive reliable information because his servants are afraid to present true data. They distort them to suit him, and he believes it, and continues to act on the basis of conclusions from this completely falsified data.

I am not astonished at all that ordinary russians support their government. The percentage of people living below the poverty line, without education, without prospects, without dreams and opportunities, is huge in russia. In such a situation, the only thing left for them to support at least some goal to live on is faith in something much bigger than their lives and themselves. That is why they so easily and desperately believe in a "great russia" myth with an imperial past and future, that is why they are ready to die for this fairy tale, because they have nothing to live for. Another question is that if these people were stronger, more rational, they could think about why those countries, which they consider enemies for centuries (USA, joined West, Ukraine etc), which are constantly "planning an attack" on their dear russia, live much better than they themselves. And after that, they could have thought about how to make it so that they themselves would have a similar standard of living. However, it is too complicated. It's easier to pick up a weapon that gives you a false sense of strength and power and go to someone's house to take and destroy what others have.

[TwitchySeal]

I am not astonished at all that ordinary russians support their government. The percentage of people living below the poverty line, without education, without prospects, without dreams and opportunities, is huge in russia.

And they also throw people in jail for not supporting Russia.

Russia has not ratified the Rome Statute, so for Russian citizens this warrant is a legally insignificant piece of paper. It happens, the USA, Ukraine, China and many other countries have not ratified the Rome Statute either. Moreover, according to the Constitution of the Russian Federation, the incumbent president cannot be held criminally liable. And also in accordance with the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Crimes against Internationally Protected Persons (Adopted by resolution 3166 (XXVIII) of the UN General Assembly of December 14, 1973), heads of state enjoy absolute immunity. It sounds like you are just undermining the legitimacy of this Convention.

Slobodan Milošević probably thought his arrest warrant was a legally insignificant piece of paper too.

[Etranger]

I am not astonished at all that ordinary russians support their government. The percentage of people living below the poverty line, without education, without prospects, without dreams and opportunities, is huge in russia.

And they also throw people in jail for not supporting Russia.

Nobody deny it. I never said that all russians are like that. But they also let much more people out of jail if they agree to go for the war and kill innocent people. And besides, some of the people they eventually threw in jail, were the ones who fully understood the consequences of their disagreement and not-supporting the regime. Those people deserve respect. And they made this decision precisely because they understand that there is no place for educated, developed people striving for a better life in the version of russia that exists now. And perhaps the fact that such people are imprisoned will make at least those who are outside of russia think about what is happening there, and that the situation has long gone beyond the internal upheavals of a particular state.

[tvbcof]

https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/statement-prosecutor-karim-khan-kc-issuance-arrest-warrants-against-president-vladimir-putin

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/may/23/imran-ahmad-khan-sentenced-to-18-months-over-sexual-assault-of-boy-15

Headline:

  Putin Politically Persecuted by Particularly Pervy Paki Pashtuns