Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress]

[TwitchySeal]

You have to understand the difference between the "news" of the media you read and the News that free press can and does publish. About poking the bear... well the UK did not kill a dissident in Moscow with Polonium. That is poking.

On regards to UK becoming "small Britain", well, your comment is right... just 107 years old because it started with WW I.

However, you decided to extradite dissident to USA, which is as good as killing him

Also, how many IRA members got killed by good old fashioned bullet, and across the globe?

(or even innocent bystanders like this one)

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/mar/08/menezes-tube-shooting-northern-ireland

Are you defending Russia or what?  What is your point?  Could you attempt to articulate a point please?

[1714527686]

1714527686

[Branko]

Are you defending Russia or what?  What is your point?  Could you attempt to articulate a point please?

My point is: "Stop been hypocrite"

[LTU_btc]

When is the victory celebration in Kherson? I am asking because you are the expert on dates of victory celebrations. LOL.

Is it this weekend or is it moved to the next weekend?

And a follow-up question, when do Russians plan to 'regroup' to Moscow oblast? You know, to save the lives of Russian soldiers and civilians.

I'm a bit worried about him. He haven't logged in since the announcement about retreat from Kherson. It would be very interesting to read what he would say about it. I saw in one Z voenkor telegram that he still believe that's part of Putin's smart plan.
I don't know it's fake or no, but one telegram channel they wrote that Ukraine can reach Moscow in 7-8 hours if they will manage to cross border:

As Stremousov used to say about situation in Kherson - everything is under control, no panic .

[suchmoon]

Suchmoon would be shouting whattabout a few comments ago.

LOL yeah but whataboutism is all they have.

I saw in one Z voenkor telegram that he still believe that's part of Putin's smart plan.

I've seen lots of "coping"...

• some say there was an agreement between Putin and NATO to let Russians retreat but evil Ukrainians broke the agreement and started shooting
• some are starting to blame general Armageddon Surovikin who was their hero for bombing power plants but turned out to be as full of shit as the rest of the MOD (claiming Ukrainians lose 7-8 more personnel in fighting but for some inexplicable reason Russians need to retreat)
• some claim that Russian forces fully evacuated days ago so there can't possibly be thousands of them left in the "kettle"
• obviously Kakhovka dam and dirty bomb claims are making rounds again

All solid indications that the clusterfuck in Kherson is as good or even better than the one near Kharkov.

[TwitchySeal]

Are you defending Russia or what?  What is your point?  Could you attempt to articulate a point please?

My point is: "Stop been hypocrite"

Maybe you should stop assuming that anyone who thinks it's fucked up what Russia is doing today supports every decision the US or UK or any other country has made over the past 60 years.  For example, I think the US is doing the right thing by supporting Ukraine.  That doesn't mean I think they did the right thing when they invaded Iraq 20 years ago.  I think the US as wrong to invade Iraq, but right to help Ukraine when they were invaded by Russia.  

Russia is invading Ukraine today.  That's what this thread is about.  Well, I guess technically they're retreating from Ukraine today.  But you know what I mean.

[suchmoon]

Finally there are crowds in the streets in a major Ukrainian city greeting soldiers entering said city. Almost exactly like Kremlin planned, except for one tiny detail.

[TwitchySeal]

Finally there are crowds in the streets in a major Ukrainian city greeting soldiers entering said city. Almost exactly like Kremlin planned, except for one tiny detail.

[Branko]

Are you defending Russia or what?  What is your point?  Could you attempt to articulate a point please?

My point is: "Stop been hypocrite"

Maybe you should stop assuming that anyone who thinks it's fucked up what Russia is doing today supports every decision the US or UK or any other country has made over the past 60 years.  For example, I think the US is doing the right thing by supporting Ukraine.  That doesn't mean I think they did the right thing when they invaded Iraq 20 years ago.  I think the US as wrong to invade Iraq, but right to help Ukraine when they were invaded by Russia.  

Russia is invading Ukraine today.  That's what this thread is about.  Well, I guess technically they're retreating from Ukraine today.  But you know what I mean.

I'm member on few USA forums for around 20 years...I noticed that current war is ALWAYS the just one for Americans...then after its over, they
start accusing Bush, Cheney, military industrial complex, CIA...verbally accusing, that is, noone ever get to court because of a posteriori American
wisdom

[TwitchySeal]

Are you defending Russia or what?  What is your point?  Could you attempt to articulate a point please?

My point is: "Stop been hypocrite"

Maybe you should stop assuming that anyone who thinks it's fucked up what Russia is doing today supports every decision the US or UK or any other country has made over the past 60 years.  For example, I think the US is doing the right thing by supporting Ukraine.  That doesn't mean I think they did the right thing when they invaded Iraq 20 years ago.  I think the US as wrong to invade Iraq, but right to help Ukraine when they were invaded by Russia.  

Russia is invading Ukraine today.  That's what this thread is about.  Well, I guess technically they're retreating from Ukraine today.  But you know what I mean.

I'm member on few USA forums for around 20 years...I noticed that current war is ALWAYS the just one for Americans...then after its over, they
start accusing Bush, Cheney, military industrial complex, CIA...verbally accusing, that is, noone ever get to court because of a posteriori American
wisdom

And now you're in the same position as the Americans 20 years ago...supporting their country while it invades and kills innocent people.... is that your point?

[BADecker]

Once the US (Zelensky) is pushed out of Ukraine (or assassinated), there will be peace.


Ukraine's Largest and Most Modern City has No Electricity or Running Water...

The plight of people living in Ukraine has taken a backseat to the theatrics of the U.S. mid-term elections for the past week or so, so if you have not seen any of the news reports coming out of Ukraine, it appears that the war is effectively over, as the capital city of Kyiv, along with other major urban areas, have had their infrastructure destroyed, as people face cold weather with no electricity, and have to line up for hours just to get water.

There is an old lesson of warfare that says "never believe your own propaganda."

After the initial Russian strikes against Ukraine's power grids and infrastructure the general narrative was that Russian cruise missiles and drones were ineffective, inaccurate and that the country's utilities would be back up and running in no time.  The message was reticent of previous propaganda out of Ukraine which requires constant theatrics of impending victory.  As long as they act as if they are winning, billions in NATO dollars will continue to flow.

Russian tactics were decidedly restrained in the early months of the conflict, with the Kremlin mostly avoiding precision attacks on vital resources, including power, water and internet.  This is a departure from traditional military doctrine, which the US followed when it invaded Iraq and decimated vast segments of their grid utilities at the onset of the war.

The Russian pull-back to lines in the Donbas region was a clear indication that their strategy was about to change and that wider strikes were inevitable.

Now, Ukraine's grid amenities are being systematically destroyed, and it is reported that Ukrainians in major cities like Kyiv are lining up for blocks daily just to fill a few meager jugs with fresh water at city well pumps.

...

Looks like Washington isn't so willing any longer.


Shakedown! Kiev Sends Lawmakers To DC To Demand New Congress Keeps Money Flowing

Ukrainian parliamentarians are set to descend on Capitol Hill to make sure newly-elected US Representatives and Senators continue to shovel endless dollars into their black hole. The irony is that the trip to lobby us for MORE money is paid for in the first place by OUR money! Also today: this week's election makes it clear that a national divorce is needed...but the Fed's tyranny keeps all of us shackled together whether we like it or not.

[paxmao]

Are you defending Russia or what?  What is your point?  Could you attempt to articulate a point please?

My point is: "Stop been hypocrite"

Maybe you should stop assuming that anyone who thinks it's fucked up what Russia is doing today supports every decision the US or UK or any other country has made over the past 60 years.  For example, I think the US is doing the right thing by supporting Ukraine.  That doesn't mean I think they did the right thing when they invaded Iraq 20 years ago.  I think the US as wrong to invade Iraq, but right to help Ukraine when they were invaded by Russia.  

Russia is invading Ukraine today.  That's what this thread is about.  Well, I guess technically they're retreating from Ukraine today.  But you know what I mean.

I'm member on few USA forums for around 20 years...I noticed that current war is ALWAYS the just one for Americans...then after its over, they
start accusing Bush, Cheney, military industrial complex, CIA...verbally accusing, that is, noone ever get to court because of a posteriori American
wisdom

And now you're in the same position as the Americans 20 years ago...supporting their country while it invades and kills innocent people.... is that your point?

@Branko, you may be right in many of your appreciations on the US foreign policy and their general attitude to the world.The US craps periodically on whatever country is not doing their will, particularly when the Republican Party (which is linked to the oil cartels like a toe to a nail) is in power and has to return the financing favours.

None of that makes Putin's RF good for anything, none of that makes a government from Moscow good for Ukraine. Sometimes you have to choose between two not really good options. Given the track record of Putin and the RF government, and the general track record of using Ukraine to Chernobylize, Holodomor it, burn it to the ground to stop the enemy and using the Ukrainians as cannon fodder, I am sure you are not surprised that they are willing to put a fight to try something else.

I believe Ukraine has a future in Europe if they can progress towards a stronger rule of law and governance, and it is a much better one that anything that Putin can offer - not that he is offering anything.

Once the US (Zelensky) is pushed out of Ukraine (or assassinated), there will be peace.
...

This comes from the guy who wrote "once Trump wins the next election..." (congrats on the mid-terms  ). But again, just to humour your argument, in the hypothetical case that Zelensky is killed, nothing changes. Ukraine is not holding because of Zelensky, it is holding because there are many people willing to fight for their independence. As simple as that.

Now, if Ukraine loses the war, whatever that may mean for you, peace does not come. Ukraine is likely to keep an active resistance and Putin is certainly not stopping his invasion of Europe.

Peace only comes upon a notorious and clear defeat of the RF army beyond any excuse or possibility of make-up. The equilibrium that US and Europe are doing at the moment is making the RF army retreat, while not completely destroying it and not creating a situation in which Adolf Putin is removed from the genetic pool of the world, as that would create immense risks.

In all honesty, I am not sure if the US at this point has made a deal with Putin, Tordesillas Treaty style *left for me, right for you". I am going to keep believing that they want Ukraine to have a strong grip in Crimea and would consider great to have the influence of the RF fleet diminished as a minimum.

I am sceptic, but time will tell.

[LTU_btc]

• some are starting to blame general Armageddon Surovikin who was their hero for bombing power plants but turned out to be as full of shit as the rest of the MOD (claiming Ukrainians lose 7-8 more personnel in fighting but for some inexplicable reason Russians need to retreat)
• some claim that Russian forces fully evacuated days ago so there can't possibly be thousands of them left in the "kettle"
• obviously Kakhovka dam and dirty bomb claims are making rounds again

All solid indications that the clusterfuck in Kherson is as good or even better than the one near Kharkov.

Since he become commander of whole ''special operation'', only his achievement is desparate attacks on critical infrastructure of Ukraine. In front line, he didn't achieved anything, but now lost Kherson - only centre of Oblast that Russia managed to occupy since full scale invasion.
BTW, something is happening in Nova Kakhovka now, which is located in other side of Dnipro river:
https://t.me/hueviyherson/28813
https://t.me/hueviyherson/28898
Seems that this city is also planning to leave Russian Federation.

Finally there are crowds in the streets in a major Ukrainian city greeting soldiers entering said city. Almost exactly like Kremlin planned, except for one tiny detail.

https://i.gyazo.com/ee4e8e3fec3fee1aee2e644b3b493ed2.png

Repeat after me - Russia is here forever. But seriously, when I see videos from Kherson how large crwods of people welcomes Ukrainian Army, I have such great feeling. When Russia invaded Kherson, their propaganda tried to show that people welcomed Russian army in similar way, but it's impossible to compare how streets of Kherson looked then and now.

Maybe you should stop assuming that anyone who thinks it's fucked up what Russia is doing today supports every decision the US or UK or any other country has made over the past 60 years.  For example, I think the US is doing the right thing by supporting Ukraine.  That doesn't mean I think they did the right thing when they invaded Iraq 20 years ago.  I think the US as wrong to invade Iraq, but right to help Ukraine when they were invaded by Russia.  

Russia is invading Ukraine today.  That's what this thread is about.  Well, I guess technically they're retreating from Ukraine today.  But you know what I mean.

I couldn't say better. Only thing that they know is whataboutism. If I support Ukraine, it doesn't automatically means that I support every action that USA or any other country did. C'mon, I'm not even saying that Ukraine is doing everything perfect and they haven't made any mistakes. There is lot of problems in Ukraine like corruption, too much power in hands of oligarchs and etc. But it doesn't gives any excuses for Russia for what they're doing in Ukraine now. But people like Branko will continue to scream - oh, look what America did.[/list]

[paxmao]

...
BTW, something is happening in Nova Kakhovka now, which is located in other side of Dnipro:
https://t.me/hueviyherson/28813
https://t.me/hueviyherson/28898
Seems that this city is also planning to leave Russian Federation.
...

At the moment, all the east bank of the Dnipro seems to be falling progressively under Ukrainian control. There are rumours of RF soldiers being instructed of dressing as civils and get out however they can.

https://deepstatemap.live/en#8/47.021/33.937 This map usually gets it right.

I am waiting to see if Ukraine consolidates or intends to actually cross the Dnipro. It would be an extreme strategic risk to do so, but I am not sure if this is a full collapse or just a disorderly retreat.

There is a say in Spanish, "a enemigo que huye, puente de plata" - "give a silver lined bridge to a running enemy". My take is that Ukraine has renounced to damage Kherson even further while also renouncing to capture a few thousand RF soldiers. Would that have been possible? Would that have been a decisive hit to the RF army?

[suchmoon]

I am waiting to see if Ukraine consolidates or intends to actually cross the Dnipro. It would be an extreme strategic risk to do so, but I am not sure if this is a full collapse or just a disorderly retreat.

There is a say in Spanish, "a enemigo que huye, puente de plata" - "give a silver lined bridge to a running enemy". My take is that Ukraine has renounced to damage Kherson even further while also renouncing to capture a few thousand RF soldiers. Would that have been possible? Would that have been a decisive hit to the RF army?

I doubt Ukrainians need to cross Dnipro there near Kherson, way too complicated now with bridges being essentially destroyed. They will probably want to HIMARS the juicy stuff on the left bank (like bridges/ammo depots/etc) as far as they can reach to reduce the risk for shelling on Kherson, but then they can move some troops to other areas, like Luhansk, and encourage Russians to make another good will gesture.

[af_newbie]

I am waiting to see if Ukraine consolidates or intends to actually cross the Dnipro. It would be an extreme strategic risk to do so, but I am not sure if this is a full collapse or just a disorderly retreat.

There is a say in Spanish, "a enemigo que huye, puente de plata" - "give a silver lined bridge to a running enemy". My take is that Ukraine has renounced to damage Kherson even further while also renouncing to capture a few thousand RF soldiers. Would that have been possible? Would that have been a decisive hit to the RF army?

I doubt Ukrainians need to cross Dnipro there near Kherson, way too complicated now with bridges being essentially destroyed. They will probably want to HIMARS the juicy stuff on the left bank (like bridges/ammo depots/etc) as far as they can reach to reduce the risk for shelling on Kherson, but then they can move some troops to other areas, like Luhansk, and encourage Russians to make another good will gesture.

I am sure Russian commanders will find another Chornobaivka close to the front lines and use it over and over.

Nepotism and corruption in the Russian army is what helped Ukrainians win this war.

The Russian command structure is non-existent. Bunch of alcoholics who only know how to send untrained soldiers to their deaths AND level
everything in front of them (including Russian soldiers and equipment). The pullback from Kherson was a smart move as they had the best
of the best soldiers there and were losing them daily. I have to give them that. They should have done it right after the Kharkiv offensive.
The old man probably refused and it took more than a month of convincing him to reach this decision.

All other front lines will collapse sooner or later. It is just a meat grinder at this point.

Logistics win wars. The Crimean bridge will be taken out, then the land bridge's front line will collapse.

As losses will mount, pressure to replace Putin will grow, and he will be forced to withdraw the remaining forces and declare a victory.

That is how this will end, with Putin or without him. The end will be the same. Ukraine will get all its lands as of 1991.

[paxmao]

I am waiting to see if Ukraine consolidates or intends to actually cross the Dnipro. It would be an extreme strategic risk to do so, but I am not sure if this is a full collapse or just a disorderly retreat.

There is a say in Spanish, "a enemigo que huye, puente de plata" - "give a silver lined bridge to a running enemy". My take is that Ukraine has renounced to damage Kherson even further while also renouncing to capture a few thousand RF soldiers. Would that have been possible? Would that have been a decisive hit to the RF army?

I doubt Ukrainians need to cross Dnipro there near Kherson, way too complicated now with bridges being essentially destroyed. They will probably want to HIMARS the juicy stuff on the left bank (like bridges/ammo depots/etc) as far as they can reach to reduce the risk for shelling on Kherson, but then they can move some troops to other areas, like Luhansk, and encourage Russians to make another good will gesture.

I am sure Russian commanders will find another Chornobaivka close to the front lines and use it over and over.

Nepotism and corruption in the Russian army is what helped Ukrainians win this war.

The Russian command structure is non-existent. Bunch of alcoholics who only know how to send untrained soldiers to their deaths AND level
everything in front of them (including Russian soldiers and equipment). The pullback from Kherson was a smart move as they had the best
of the best soldiers there and were losing them daily. I have to give them that. They should have done it right after the Kharkiv offensive.
The old man probably refused and it took more than a month of convincing him to reach this decision.

All other front lines will collapse sooner or later. It is just a meat grinder at this point.

Logistics win wars. The Crimean bridge will be taken out, then the land bridge's front line will collapse.

As losses will mount, pressure to replace Putin will grow, and he will be forced to withdraw the remaining forces and declare a victory.

That is how this will end, with Putin or without him. The end will be the same. Ukraine will get all its lands as of 1991.

Oh certainly, the worst enemy of the RF army is the culture and leadership of the RF army. The tactics that work for countries that have less support and less resources, like basically flattening any city to the ground and mass-graving population into submission, have failed against the determination and quite decent organisation of the Ukrainian army. I hope you are right, the strategy that has worked in the southwest may be used in other areas. The area near the Dnipro was particularly suited to a logistics cut-off, it may be more difficult to implement in other areas.

However other strategies may be possible and equally effective. The RF army has a couple strengths, but a million weaknesses.

With time, it is possible that better analysis of the battles and tactical situations becomes available. I am personally very interested in understanding tactics and strategy and wars (useless and detestable as they are) are possibly the ultimate expression of these. The war in Ukraine will be much more documented that any other war before.

The doings of the RF chief psychos will probably be in the same bag as the allied frontal assaults in WW I, Gallipoli, the US presence in Afghanistan and the Romanov's  army in WWI, Stalingrad for the Nazi army and countless historical strategic mistakes from Craso in Parthia to Napoleon coming back from his exile.

[Veleor]

...

...

Written records are a bitch uh? You are lucky I am not fifteen and I do not bet on deaths (nor for that matter on things that do not depend on my own acts).

So... I am allowed by you highness to continue "my wishful thinking"? Or maybe it was something else...like not wanting to talk about the offensive and how, where and when it may have happened? Well, we won't know.

Now, go back to trolling. As Napoleon said, never interrupt the opponent when he is making a mistake.

Are you talking about that Napoleon who fled Russia at the end of December 1812?

If, according to you, you are not fifteen, then why are you reposting the 3-months-old comment, with an offer of a dispute, which you generously refused, considering it childish? I remember how in your answer you said high-flown phrases that you do not bet "on people's deaths and countries destroyed" and at the same time you didn't find a better place to advertise "your sponsor".

Your Nazi phrases also say a lot, including why you are constantly sticking around in this topic and savoring these hostilities between two neighboring countries all day long.
This is for history, to once again indicate that you are a Spanish Nazi. And should be treated accordingly to your posts on the basis of this.

I wonder how many people in the RF really believe the crap or they are just trying hard to believe it so that they do not feel part of the scum of the Earth.

Now to the topic. I don't understand the optimism of those people in this thread who support Ukraine, which behave like fans at a match, supporting their favorite team. For me, it's already obvious that at least Ukraine has already lost for sure for purely economic reasons around May, since its budget is supported entirely by Western financial injections. A 1/3 of the population has dispersed to different countries. Tens of thousands of dead soldiers on both sides. But even if the Russian troops stop fully attacking and simply stand on the defensive, this will still not save Ukraine, since the monetary yoke, generously thrown by its Western partners, has already lowered this country to the very bottom of a deep debt hole.

Western aid will not be eternal, and what will the population of Ukraine do, sitting without work, wages, heat, electricity? If the country's army is entirely paid from the budget of another state, then such an army is mercenary and it defends not national interests, but the interests of those who provide it. But where will the aggression of the Ukrainian army be directed when financial aid suddenly cuts off, have you thought about this? Guess from two times where Ukrainian citizens will go to save themselves, to Russia or Europe?

Regarding reparations. Do you think it will be possible to steal 300 billion USD from Russia without consequences and give them to Ukraine? Then it will be quite expected that Russia will confiscate the property of companies from those countries that will be involved in the theft of its money. But under such a scenario, one should also expect that countries such as China and India, taught by the experience of Russia, will withdraw money from European and American banks. That will also undermine the global economy.

I don't think that Russians will pay hundreds of billions $ to Ukraine because of their mentality. The Russians will literally hang themselves rather than go to this one. They will arrange a big internal rebellion or arrange a third world war. Therefore, if the residents of the Kremlin really want a repeat of the Russian Civil War like in 1917 for several years or a global cataclysm, they will do just that. Because it is impossible to simultaneously broadcast from high tribunes to the inhabitants of Russia that their country is a winner, a fighter against Nazism and American anti-human hegemony, and then make the country an eternally penitent monetary slave to those very "Nazis" and "anti-people." But a riot in Russia will definitely not be good for anyone, neither in Europe nor in the USA.

[suchmoon]

There is a video making rounds in the dark depths of Telegram that kinda reflects the essence of this war, if the video real... which it most likely is (or at least the message being conveyed is) since it seems to have originated from Wagner's official channel.

The story goes like this: a Wagner PMC "soldier", one of the thugs they hired from prisons, gets captured as a POW by Ukrainians. He sings like a canary, tells lots of stories that may or may not be true, gets a lot of publicity. Then POW exchange takes place and Wagner wants him back. At this point the story gets a bit sketchy - some say that Ukrainians sent him back against his will, some say he was coerced to go back because Wagner threatened his family. At any rate, the video is about him singing a different song somewhere in a basement in Russia and getting his head smashed with a hammer. I'm not going to post a link for obvious reasons, you can probably google it up if you're into shit like this, but yeah... these are the "denazifiers" coming to fix Ukraine. Simple folks, traditional values.

~

So your sales pitch for ending a pointless war is "we can fuck up Ukraine and our own country much more than we already have, so give up now"?

I'm afraid the answer now more than ever is going to be "better pay the high price at this time than a much higher price later". Clearly the lunatic in control of Russia and sycophants like you don't have anything positive to offer nor could you be trusted even if any such offers could be made. There is no incentive for anyone to give anything to Kremlin if the only outcome is going to be regrouping for another war 8 years later.

[TwitchySeal]

Are you talking about that Napoleon who fled Russia at the end of December 1812?

If, according to you, you are not fifteen, then why are you reposting the 3-months-old comment

Because part of your challenge was

if Ukrainian troops manage to recapture any of these cities before January 1, 2023: Kherson, Mariupol, Melitopol, then I will leave this forum forever.

And Ukrain just liberated Kherson.

Although to be fair, if he didn't accept the challenge then obviously you have no moral obligation to leave.  But admitting you were wrong and over estimated Russia/under estimated Ukraine would be the honorable thing to do.


By the way, I found this photo of a billboard the Russians put up while occupying Kherson, but I don't know any Russian,  would you mind translating it for me?

[tvbcof]

...
Someone should send them a link to be.open, branko and tvbcof's posts from this thread, see what the power of positivity can do.

I've been tied up with other things when reliable info about the West side of the river abandonment stuff came in.  As usual, it looks like probably a fairly brilliant move which I would probably agree with more and more were I more aware of the background info.  Beyond that, it looks characteristically well executed with minimal losses of men and equipment on the Russian side.  Hat's off to 'General Armageddon'.

Honestly, when Russia began offering resettlement with generous options to civilian evacuees from Kherson, it was a pretty big clue that the writing was on the wall.

When the NATO weapons hit the dam it pretty much sealed the deal.  Now, with Kherson crawling with Nazi's and those civilians who sided with Russia safely evacuated (under NaZiocon fire predictably enough), Russia could do the dam first at a time of their choosing if it's a forgone conclusion, or in better circumstances allow it to exist as long as it supplies water to Crimea.

As for the nuke plant, it's nothing but the worlds biggest dirty bomb and certainly not something to let children like Zelensj and the NaZiocons play around with.  Especially after their recent history of crazy creepy tactics including shelling said plant.  I hope for everyone's sake that the Russians decommission the thing and get the spent fuel safely back into Russia.  Then rig it for a full and permanent demolition on the off chance that it might become necessary.

If Russia ever does 'liberate' the whole of Kherson and the rest of the Black Sea seaboard it will probably have to be from the North.  Maybe as an extension of operations to liberate the rest of the Donbass and Zapherwhatever.  Best would be if free and fair elections gave the peeps the choice.  The Russians would have to pressure the 'Western Democracies' pretty damn hard to get them to agree to the use of 'Democracy' to resolve the Southern East Ukraine issues though.