Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress]

[Branko]

Now to the topic. I don't understand the optimism of those people in this thread who support Ukraine, which behave like fans at a match, supporting their favorite team. For me, it's already obvious that at least Ukraine has already lost for sure for purely economic reasons around May, since its budget is supported entirely by Western financial injections. A 1/3 of the population has dispersed to different countries. Tens of thousands of dead soldiers on both sides. But even if the Russian troops stop fully attacking and simply stand on the defensive, this will still not save Ukraine, since the monetary yoke, generously thrown by its Western partners, has already lowered this country to the very bottom of a deep debt hole.

Western aid will not be eternal, and what will the population of Ukraine do, sitting without work, wages, heat, electricity? If the country's army is entirely paid from the budget of another state, then such an army is mercenary and it defends not national interests, but the interests of those who provide it. But where will the aggression of the Ukrainian army be directed when financial aid suddenly cuts off, have you thought about this? Guess from two times where Ukrainian citizens will go to save themselves, to Russia or Europe?

It will be same like in Croatia, they will have their flag, anthem and country borders, and everything of value will be owned by their western "friends"

[TwitchySeal]

...
Someone should send them a link to be.open, branko and tvbcof's posts from this thread, see what the power of positivity can do.

I've been tied up with other things when reliable info about the West side of the river abandonment stuff came in.  As usual, it looks like probably a fairly brilliant move which I would probably agree with more and more were I more aware of the background info.  Beyond that, it looks characteristically well executed with minimal losses of men and equipment on the Russian side.  Hat's off to 'General Armageddon'.

Honestly, when Russia began offering resettlement with generous options to civilian evacuees from Kherson, it was a pretty big clue that the writing was on the wall.

When the NATO weapons hit the dam it pretty much sealed the deal.  Now, with Kherson crawling with Nazi's and those civilians who sided with Russia safely evacuated (under NaZiocon fire predictably enough), Russia could do the dam first at a time of their choosing if it's a forgone conclusion, or in better circumstances allow it to exist as long as it supplies water to Crimea.

As for the nuke plant, it's nothing but the worlds biggest dirty bomb and certainly not something to let children like Zelensj and the NaZiocons play around with.  Especially after their recent history of crazy creepy tactics including shelling said plant.  I hope for everyone's sake that the Russians decommission the thing and get the spent fuel safely back into Russia.  Then rig it for a full and permanent demolition on the off chance that it might become necessary.

If Russia ever does 'liberate' the whole of Kherson and the rest of the Black Sea seaboard it will probably have to be from the North.  Maybe as an extension of operations to liberate the rest of the Donbass and Zapherwhatever.  Best would be if free and fair elections gave the peeps the choice.  The Russians would have to pressure the 'Western Democracies' pretty damn hard to get them to agree to the use of 'Democracy' to resolve the Southern East Ukraine issues though.

A look back at when Russia lost the battle of Kiev and you framed it as a victory because they were able to focus on the "permanent taking of places like Kherson. which they do intend to keep" (and also the whole war is fake and pre planned):

Any semi-competant analyst can see that Russia had no interest in 'taking' Kiev.  Not ever, and not to this day.  It was obviously a tactic to tie up Ukrainians who would otherwise make the permanent taking of places like Kherson. which they do intend to keep, more costly and complicated.

The Russians can vaporize reddittard 'mercenaries' by the hundreds at will flying munitions right over the heads of the 'visting dignitaries' (working on their money laundering schemes in perfect safety) in Kiev.  That tells me that this whole thing is largely choreographed and pre-planned, and all sides are a party to the show.

That said, I do suspect that it was supposed to be more of a show and less of a real fight than the Jewkrainian actors and stage managers were expecting.  Russia might have played them somewhat in this respect.

Act-II will be Poland taking back some historically Polish territory in the West.  That much was probably pre-planned and something that the Jewkrainian govt in Kiev started out with as a goal and have worked diligently to set up.  It's why the tactics are designed to whack as many Ukrianians who can possibly hold a gun as possible.  Russian couldn't care less what happens over there and their gains in the East will probably be solidified by an agreement to not interfere with Polish operations in the Western parts of the country.  That, and perhaps not taking Odessa.  In other words, leaving the neo-pale-of-settlement sea-port access for their 'bigger Israel' project.

[tvbcof]

...
A look back at when Russia lost the battle of Kiev and you framed it as a victory because they were able to focus on the "permanent taking of places like Kherson. which they do intend to keep" (and also the whole war is fake and pre planned):
...

By 'Kherson' I meant primarily the region on the East of the river which is vitally important to the reliable supply of water to Crimea.  When I wrote that I was not thinking about the possibility of blowing up the dam, and especially not the nuclear power plant.  It took some time to fully appreciate how irresponsible, desperate, and depraved the Zelenskj puppet-masters truly are.

In all honesty, I thought the Russians could and would eventually control the entire lake and the areas at some distance around it.  At least that was my assessment from some months in until a month or two ago.  Of course they still might.  If you look back to the beginning of this thing, after I'd had a week or two to study the situation, I stated clearly that Russia would leave Kiev once the purpose of being there (tieing up the adversary) was over, and I also stated that I doubted the Russians would go to Odessa.  My assessment at that early time was that Russia would not want a panic response from the rest of the world which would result from land-locking the county.  I considered (and still consider) the Russian leadership to be reasonable and wished initially to just take care of their immediate problems (as stated in earlier agreements which proved to be a Western sham) as expediently and cheaply as possible and to avoid a larger war.  But I also expected Russia to be prepared for a larger war if it came to that.  In this case Odessa will probably become part of the Russian Federation along with the others via a combination of economic engineering and military actions.  Kherson is actually the weakest of the bunch (from Kharkiv down to Odessa) in terms of popular support for Russia from what I can see.

I maintain that Russia (or any other thinking power in this day and age) will avoid at all costs attempting to take over and try to control an area which lacks popular support.  Russia seems to be to civilized to flat out genocide an area to arrange popular support.  The opposite seems to hold true for the NaZiocons wherever they may be found, and I suspect that there is a religious component to it.  Some religious dogma is abhorred by genocide while in other cases it is considered as natural as a tree and something to strive for and have holidays in celebration of.

[LTU_btc]

At any rate, the video is about him singing a different song somewhere in a basement in Russia and getting his head smashed with a hammer. I'm not going to post a link for obvious reasons, you can probably google it up if you're into shit like this, but yeah... these are the "denazifiers" coming to fix Ukraine. Simple folks, traditional values.

Seems that this video is real and leader of Wagner group prigozhin justified it ''A dog receives a dog death'':
https://english.alarabiya.net/News/world/2022/11/13/Sledgehammer-execution-of-Russian-mercenary-who-defected-to-Ukraine-shown-in-video
I'm wondering since when death penalty become legal in Russia and when some private organisations started to carry out justice. Call them Nazi, but for me they're more similar to ISIS terrorists.

By the way, I found this photo of a billboard the Russians put up while occupying Kherson, but I don't know any Russian,  would you mind translating it for me?

https://i.gyazo.com/db8b26a5ebf6f7bdb0b17a25a07dc48e.jpg

I also don't know Russian very well. Maybe it means that ''Russia is here until November''. But maybe our Russian folks can translate better.

[paxmao]

This is for history, to once again indicate that you are a Spanish Nazi. And should be treated accordingly to your posts on the basis of this.

Are you aware that I use Adolf Putin in a negative way right? I mean, not sometimes, but more like in 3 of every 4 posts, it is impossible not to notice. I even wrote a few posts with my reasons to believe why Putin is actually acting like the Reich Nazis.

Apart from that, you are using the oldest propaganda tactic in history - you classify a person or a group as something undesirable, so that anything you do after that becomes justified (e.g. despicable Arab terrorist, Capitalist American, Wicked Hilary, traitor Spansky ...). It is only for simple minds like yours, most people in the internet era can pick this easily.

I wonder how many people in the RF really believe the crap or they are just trying hard to believe it so that they do not feel part of the scum of the Earth.

Ah, you looked hard to find that one uh? And worked hard on interpreting that as xenophobia as well by cutting the text:

" This was is no different from many others that have been led by the Russian supremacists. Confronting one ethnicity with others, using propaganda massively while ignoring any limit to what is human and what is "reasonable" in war.
Smoke-screening with stupid arguments about "west" versus "east" (as if killing was a culture), accusing others of nazism while behaving as such, denying everything (Even denying there is war!!) ...

Up to the point of complaining that the RF artists are no longer invited to play abroad while they kill the old and the young alike. I wonder how many people in the RF really believe the crap or they are just trying hard to believe it so that they do not feel part of the scum of the Earth."

My comment is very clear: many RF citizens (not only Russians) are trying to survive psychologically and trying not be part of Adolf Putin's clusterfuck and trying very hard not to feel like shit for being in the RF under this government of psychos. You are too, in your own stupid way calling names like a confused teenager and pretending that everything is going well and somehow there is a reason why 80.000 RF young men are dead and many more will be unless the madness stops. So you are very familiar with what I am saying, oh yes you are.

...
Now to the topic. I don't understand the optimism of those people in this thread who support Ukraine, which behave like fans at a match, supporting their favourite team. ...

The topic is that you were brawling about Ukraine not being able to retake any substantial territory or city. You were wrong - do not worry, everyone gets things wrong sometimes and you are probably going to get many more so learn to live with it and do not hate yourself for it.

Of course you don't know why the "optimism". You do not know your enemy and you probably will never be able to - too long being a servant of the Psychos.

You think that Europe particularly supports Ukraine without any reason? You have not grasped even the basic concepts of the Ukrainian resistance and the international support. I am going to give you just one very practical and simple reason, there are many ethical and philosophical ones  - at the risk of trying to plant a seed in a rock:

 - Europe does not want to have a victorious RF army at the gates of Poland. The cost of that is much higher than supporting Ukraine's effort.

And on regards to Ukraine, obviously most Ukrainians would rather avoid being under the rule of Moscow. I am not sure you get it, so trust me on this one.

I am sure that even someone with a 5 year old brain like your, that throws Nazi here and Nazi there can understand that. The RF army is a threat and should have been stopped much earlier.

Reasons for optimism... well, it does not seem to be going that bad, you know...

...
A look back at when Russia lost the battle of Kiev and you framed it as a victory because they were able to focus on the "permanent taking of places like Kherson. which they do intend to keep" (and also the whole war is fake and pre planned):
...

By 'Kherson' I meant primarily the region on the East of the river which is vitally important to the reliable supply of water to Crimea.
...

I maintain that Russia (or any other thinking power in this day and age) will avoid at all costs attempting to take over and try to control an area which lacks popular support.  Russia seems to be to civilized to flat out genocide an area to arrange popular support.

...

Well, RF seems not keeping even that.

No, the RF has done that before - flattening whole cities like Aleppo, just to mention one.

[Branko]

Apart from that, you are using the oldest propaganda tactic in history - you classify a person or a group as something undesirable, so that anything you do after that becomes justified (e.g. despicable Arab terrorist, Capitalist American, Wicked Hilary, traitor Spansky ...). It is only for simple minds like yours, most people in the internet era can pick this easily.

...Adolf Putin...

[BADecker]

Nobody wins in war except the makers of the war machines. If they are smart, they will be selling war materials to all the warring factions, so they will have a safe haven to go to no matter who wins.

[paxmao]

Apart from that, you are using the oldest propaganda tactic in history - you classify a person or a group as something undesirable, so that anything you do after that becomes justified (e.g. despicable Arab terrorist, Capitalist American, Wicked Hilary, traitor Spansky ...). It is only for simple minds like yours, most people in the internet era can pick this easily.

...Adolf Putin...

Good argument, but is not a classification and I do not justify anything done to him (other than replacing him for someone who does not want to wage wars), I just got tired of they guy actually saying that others are the "Nazis", when is following the Reich manual better than Goering:

- Going into offensive on a "pan-Eslavic" motto (For Hitler it was the Anchslush, the pan-Germanism and, look at the coincidence, the "German speaking majority in Sudetenland and Austria".
- A very clear Russian supremacist policy. All regions are there to be used by the dominant ethnic Russians.
- Pretence of law, as long as "the Chiefs" decide it is not conveniet.
- Incarcerate political opposition (Nazis with the Communists in Germany, Putin with any opposition such as Navalny, but not only Navalny).
- And, not exclusively Nazi, but very Prussian: Put the citizens and the state to the service of the army instead of the opposite (nowcompulsory service on an offensive war).
- Using terror tactics against civilians (Nazis in Poland for example, the orcs in Bucha, Irpin, ... )
- Bombing cities trying to make the enemy surrender (Battle of Britain and yes, the US in Japan, etc...).
- Using the propaganda machine to keep the population ignorant (to the point of not calling this a war and sentencing those who dare!).

So, yes, Adolf Putin is not name calling nor a class, is a description ... or perhaps is that all tyrants end up looking the same.

Nobody wins in war except the makers of the war machines. If they are smart, they will be selling war materials to all the warring factions, so they will have a safe haven to go to no matter who wins.

You are a genius.

[suchmoon]

New-ish excuse why putinists are losing the war:

After the Mariupol operation, we considered that we suffered most of the losses from friendly fire. Someone even called the figure - sixty percent. This is a common occurrence, but its spread depends, of course, on the competence of commanders - especially artillerymen.

We are completing the task, when suddenly mines began to fall on our heads from the rear. Who? Where? Raise the copter, find a mortar battery, rush there...
- Who are you!?
- The battalion of such and such a regiment from Russia.
- Why are you hitting us?
- We are not aiming at you - at a point on the map. We've been assigned a task, and we're doing it.
- So no one corrects you, you shoot at the map the old fashioned way ...
- Well, so...

Then we didn’t leave them - we corrected them ourselves, downloaded programs to their smartphones, taught them how to use them ... And there were so many of them ... We move around the industrial zone, occupy buildings, hold them at night - in the morning we rotate in other groups so that the guys can relax. We start to rotate - and there are mines on the route ... Where from? Some army general gave a command to his engineers to mine the front, which had gone ahead in a day, but the general did not even bother to ask. As a result, several people died, including the tank crew with the tank company commander, who was on foot to receive the task.

We thought that they had already learned not to do at least such stupid things as tonight the rotation, which was returning to the base with the headlights turned off, flew into the ditch, which was dug behind them across the road by army subcontractors. There a commander of the engineering service ruined all the access roads along the route, because of his "art" we have overturned Urals ... In general, with such geniuses, we don’t even need enemies. Dear army chiefs, control the situation - it's time to grow.

I'm sure the "chiefs" will read this and fix the issues immediately. Poor guys just didn't know that their glorious forces are killing each other.

[paxmao]

New-ish excuse why putinists are losing the war:

After the Mariupol operation, we considered that we suffered most of the losses from friendly fire. Someone even called the figure - sixty percent. This is a common occurrence, but its spread depends, of course, on the competence of commanders - especially artillerymen.

We are completing the task, when suddenly mines began to fall on our heads from the rear. Who? Where? Raise the copter, find a mortar battery, rush there...
- Who are you!?
- The battalion of such and such a regiment from Russia.
- Why are you hitting us?
- We are not aiming at you - at a point on the map. We've been assigned a task, and we're doing it.
- So no one corrects you, you shoot at the map the old fashioned way ...
- Well, so...

Then we didn’t leave them - we corrected them ourselves, downloaded programs to their smartphones, taught them how to use them ... And there were so many of them ... We move around the industrial zone, occupy buildings, hold them at night - in the morning we rotate in other groups so that the guys can relax. We start to rotate - and there are mines on the route ... Where from? Some army general gave a command to his engineers to mine the front, which had gone ahead in a day, but the general did not even bother to ask. As a result, several people died, including the tank crew with the tank company commander, who was on foot to receive the task.

We thought that they had already learned not to do at least such stupid things as tonight the rotation, which was returning to the base with the headlights turned off, flew into the ditch, which was dug behind them across the road by army subcontractors. There a commander of the engineering service ruined all the access roads along the route, because of his "art" we have overturned Urals ... In general, with such geniuses, we don’t even need enemies. Dear army chiefs, control the situation - it's time to grow.

I'm sure the "chiefs" will read this and fix the issues immediately. Poor guys just didn't know that their glorious forces are killing each other.

I guess their argument would be that they are actually winning it twice against Ukraine against themselves. I really hope that the soldier who allegedly wrote that is never found - even a honest complaint could be interpreted as treason. The more nervous they grow, the more are they going to repress every sign of dissent.

I am really surprised that any army has such a level of incompetence. We are not talking weapons or other things that are expensive, we are talking procedures and techniques which only require a little care.

[suchmoon]

I guess their argument would be that they are actually winning it twice against Ukraine against themselves.

I really hope that the soldier who allegedly wrote that is never found - even a honest complaint could be interpreted as treason. The more nervous they grow, the more are they going to repress every sign of dissent.

It's a well-known "voenkor", shouldn't be hard to find. Not sure if it's a personal experience or they're retelling someone else's story though. But yeah, there were already some threats from Kremlin towards telegram warriors, because telling everyone that that king is naked - not acceptable.

[Branko]

I guess their argument would be that they are actually winning it twice against Ukraine against themselves.

I really hope that the soldier who allegedly wrote that is never found - even a honest complaint could be interpreted as treason. The more nervous they grow, the more are they going to repress every sign of dissent.

It's a well-known "voenkor", shouldn't be hard to find. Not sure if it's a personal experience or they're retelling someone else's story though. But yeah, there were already some threats from Kremlin towards telegram warriors, because telling everyone that that king is naked - not acceptable.

It seems they made corrections to their fire:

https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses/13832

[suchmoon]

Polish media reported that two people died Tuesday afternoon after a projectile struck an area where grain was drying in Przewodów, a Polish village near the border with Ukraine.

Fuck... I hope these two Polish farmers were just smoking in the wrong place, otherwise it was nice knowing you all.

[LTU_btc]

Today Russia mafmde biggest air attack against Ukraine since the beginning of war. But one of their "high precision missiles crossed border of Poland and killed 2 civilians here.
https://www.dw.com/en/russian-missiles-cross-into-nato-member-poland-report/a-63770954
https://www.euronews.com/2022/11/15/russian-missiles-cross-into-poland-killing-two-near-ukraine-border
It's already direct attack on NATO country. Interesting what reaction of NATO will be. But considering whole picture of war and that they don't even supply long range missiles to Ukraine to not escalate conflict. So, I don't believe that 5th article will be activated. Though, it's Poland, if it would be Hungary, I believe that they would close eyes on this attack.
And question, did Russia made this attack intentionally to check red lines of NATO or it's just their "high precision weapons which can land something like 50 km from target.

Polish media reported that two people died Tuesday afternoon after a projectile struck an area where grain was drying in Przewodów, a Polish village near the border with Ukraine.

Fuck... I hope these two Polish farmers were just smoking in the wrong place, otherwise it was nice knowing you all.

Can't find link, but I saw post saying that it might be explosion of "grain dust". Didn't knew that grain is heavy explosive material.

[tsaroz]

Today Russia mafmde biggest air attack against Ukraine since the beginning of war. But one of their "high precision missiles crossed border of Poland and killed 2 civilians here.
https://www.dw.com/en/russian-missiles-cross-into-nato-member-poland-report/a-63770954
https://www.euronews.com/2022/11/15/russian-missiles-cross-into-poland-killing-two-near-ukraine-border
It's already direct attack on NATO country. Interesting what reaction of NATO will be. But considering whole picture of war and that they don't even supply long range missiles to Ukraine to not escalate conflict. So, I don't believe that 5th article will be activated. Though, it's Poland, if it would be Hungary, I believe that they would close eyes on this attack.
And question, did Russia made this attack intentionally to check red lines of NATO or it's just their "high precision weapons which can land something like 50 km from target.

Polish media reported that two people died Tuesday afternoon after a projectile struck an area where grain was drying in Przewodów, a Polish village near the border with Ukraine.

Fuck... I hope these two Polish farmers were just smoking in the wrong place, otherwise it was nice knowing you all.

Can't find link, but I saw post saying that it might be explosion of "grain dust". Didn't knew that grain is heavy explosive material.

Here's an video from news.com.au
https://www.news.com.au/world/first-images-emerge-of-site-where-russian-missiles-landed-in-poland/video/09b21d8347ce7b1fd6170a151aaa59cd
The photo shows pieces of a projectile so no "grain dust".

[Kavelj22]

Here's an video from news.com.au
https://www.news.com.au/world/first-images-emerge-of-site-where-russian-missiles-landed-in-poland/video/09b21d8347ce7b1fd6170a151aaa59cd
The photo shows pieces of a projectile so no "grain dust".

The Russian Foreign Ministry had completely denied firing missiles near the Polish border. The quick reactions from both sides prove that what happened was intentional, whether it was Russia that wanted to provoke NATO, or that NATO fabricated the attack to condemn Russia.

I don't think both sides want to go to war now. Russia acts with great arrogance and indifference, and the rest of the parties fear that Russia will become more reckless.

[paxmao]

Polish media reported that two people died Tuesday afternoon after a projectile struck an area where grain was drying in Przewodów, a Polish village near the border with Ukraine.

Fuck... I hope these two Polish farmers were just smoking in the wrong place, otherwise it was nice knowing you all.

Not yet. An attack or an offensive action is usually met with a proportional response, so no time for Armageddon just yet. What could be a proportional response? The danger is escalation, but we are still a few meters apart from it.

Firstly the US and allies must make up their minds about what happened - my first instinct is that the target obviously does not make any sense and I am not sure there is anything in there that could be a target. A missile flying through half Ukraine must have been at some point detected?

Looking at the picture, it seems a vey small effect for a full missile detonating. You can see a small crater, even smaller than one from an arty shell, and a tractor that is not that badly damaged. Could have been a fragment or even WWII unexploded ordinance?

[suchmoon]

Firstly the US and allies must make up their minds about what happened - my first instinct is that the target obviously does not make any sense and I am not sure there is anything in there that could be a target. A missile flying through half Ukraine must have been at some point detected?

Looking at the picture, it seems a vey small effect for a full missile detonating. You can see a small crater, even smaller than one from an arty shell, and a tractor that is not that badly damaged. Could have been a fragment or even WWII unexploded munitions?

According to Poland's MFA the fragments belong to a "Russian made" missile, which could mean anything from an X-101 cruise missile to a C-300 from a Ukrainian SAM. At least we know it's not Iranian, nor Chinese .

As for target, rumor has it that there is a power plant near the border on the Ukrainian side so it's possible that some ancient cruise missile was aimed at it and missed it by a few km (inertial guidance is a bitch). Otherwise it would be an incredibly unbelievable coincidence that something unrelated exploded at poor farmers at the same time when Russians were launching ~100 missiles at the Ukrainian power grid.

[tsaroz]

It's now proved to be a S300 air defense missile from Ukraine.
Whether it was a mistake or a deliberate work is not confirmed by anyone.

[TwitchySeal]

It's now proved to be a S300 air defense missile from Ukraine.
Whether it was a mistake or a deliberate work is not confirmed by anyone.

Care to share the proof?