Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress]

[montaga]

You want to report a crime, of to the meat grinder you go
https://youtu.be/mG26TsIRe38

[BADecker]

You want to report a crime, of to the meat grinder you go
https://youtu.be/mG26TsIRe38

Lol. In Ukraine, off you go to the meat grinder simply for existing, if you meet the meat requirements. If you die in the meat grinder, your body is saved and sold for body parts. If you are wounded, depends on how bad... they might sell your body parts while you are still alive. If they can heal you it's back to the meat grinder you go.

It isn't that Zelensky opposes the killing. It's that he is making money off body parts, and Ukraine's constitution is simply a tool he is using to keep the war going. Trump and Putin understand this. But world relations stand in the way of doing anything about it.


What's Standing In The Way Of A Grand Compromise On Ukraine?


https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/whats-standing-way-grand-compromise-ukraine
Putin and Trump publicly confirmed that they found a lot of common ground during their three-hour-long talks in Anchorage, but no grand compromise on Ukraine was reached due to "a couple of big [points]…One is probably the most significant" that remain unresolved according to Trump. Putin's reaffirmation of the need to "eliminate the primary causes of the conflict" and Trump mentioning how Zelensky will "have to agree" with what the US achieved so far strongly hints at what these could be.

As a reminder, Russia's official goals in the conflict are to:

demilitarize Ukraine; denazify it;

restore the country's constitutional neutrality;

and obtain recognition of the on-the-ground reality.

Putin suggested that he's become more flexible as of late, which was likely responsible at least in part for why he and Trump just met as well as for Trump's positive assessment of their talks, so he could hypothetically compromise on one, some, or all of these goals.

This places the onus on Zelensky to reciprocate.

In the order that Putin's goals were mentioned, Trump therefore likely expects Zelensky to either agree to:

curtail the size of his armed forces after the conflict ends;

get the Rada to criminalize the glorification of WWII-era Ukrainian Nazi collaborators and/or rescind anti-Russian legislation;

have them remove the 2019 constitutional amendment about seeking NATO membership;

and/or amend the constitution to more easily cede land without first having to hold a successful All-Ukrainian referendum on this issue.

Trump also said that he'll "call up NATO", likely referring to the leaders of key NATO countries, who he seemingly expects to facilitate a grand compromise by correspondingly:

agreeing not to deploy troops to Ukraine and/or agreeing to curtail arms exports to it;

"creatively encouraging" the Rada to pass the aforesaid socio-political, neutrality, and/or territorial cession reforms (e.g. threatening to curtail aid if they don't);

and/or explicitly declaring that they'll no longer approve Ukraine's NATO membership bid.
...

[DaRude]

Oh... so many quesions to answer , by everyone




^^^^

Sure, just as Zelenskiy must "declare victory" in any outcome whatsoever, and Trump and EU must all "declare victory" in any outcome whatsoever. So everyone must claim to be a winner! For Putin, no NATO in Ukraine, return of Russian culture, language, books, religion etc.. in Ukraine, 5 new territories I believe would be an easy sell. Plus it sets a precedence, do you think Georgia or another buffer state would accept Nuland's cookies now seeing how much Ukrainians had to pay for those cookies in blood and territory? Also, don't forget the agreements between US and Russia are not only shortsighted to stop the immediate guns from firing, like I've been saying big game is played for spheres of influence, and voters in Odesa and Kharkiv will be the most problematic and become huge liability for current regime in Ukraine.

Demilitarise - of course vague from the start on purpose, but if Ukraine will become a neutral state and not under any military alliance like NATO, I'd argue that this point was achieved.
de-nazify - i believe the most aggressive nazi's that wanted to fight Russia the most, did so first and are no longer with us. Azov one of the most radical groups with literal Black Sun in it's logo is now just a shell of itself and was integrated into official Ukrainian army and removed the Black Sun. After the guns are silenced it be hard for wounded nazi's to get new recruits and those that are not wounded would be a laughed at as they retreated from Mariupol and left most of their comrades there and then retreated from all of Donbas. It's hard to sell yourself when you retreated. Plus with Russian culture and language the victory day and Ukrainian role in defeating Nazi's would also come back to the masses, and Bandera and right sector would be tabooed.
We're yet to see what will happen to the Ukrainian regime once guns go silent. This would be the next step, and it's impossible that it wasn't part of the agreements discussed by Putin and Trump
Russia was only asking for Donbas (2 regions) before this all started, plus I'm sure Russia will publish US's written response to its security demands that it received in January 2022 before this all started.
Not taking Zaporizhzhia and Kherson (cities) would be a huge minus for Putin, but if Putin gets everything else i believe Russians will be able to overlook it

Of course i do not have any insights on the terms of the actual proposal. But if in it Putin didn't get those things, like if Russia had to hand over Kherson Oblast to Ukraine, or Ukraine was allowed to join NATO, or Russian language didn't return to Ukraine, then selling it as a win for Putin would be much more problematic.

If Ukraine won't be neutral and is allowed to be armed to the teeth including nuclear arsenal then i will concede that it will be a loss for Russia.

But i think you're doing a great job prepping the ground and claiming this as not a win for Russia. If Russia gets all those things i talked about and you can somehow sell it as not a win for Russia, then i'm all for it.

I do not think that Zelensky has to announce a victory. Remember, he is actually an elected president. I doubt very much he wants to stay in power (I would not).

Return of Ruzzian culture... I do not see how that is going to happen. Ruzzia now is hated - as you would imagine.

New territories (5??), maybe. But you have to ask what did you exchange for them and how long will you be able to hold them.

No NATO... well, formally that may or may not be the case, but after this war, Ukraine will be permanently in war footing. No more "surprises" and if Ruzzia wants to try again, it will find something completely different. I think Putin and the future gangsters of Ruzzia understand the real cost of invading.

But again, all this may or may not be. I do not picture Zelensky giving territory for free and I do not picture Europe taking just any deal no matter how bad. After all, US is no longer a trusted ally, so if there needs to be confrontation, there will be confrontation.

The Ukrainian elected president's term ended in March 2024.

If Russian language and religion is not returned to Ukraine then it won't be a win for Russia.

Crimea, Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson, Zaporizhzhia. As I've been saying multiple times, it's not about the land (Russia has plenty) and it's not even about Ukraine, but about spheres of influence and Russia's position in the world order. EU needs Russia's resources, if Russia comes out independent out of this then it gets to decide who in EU gets it's resources and on what terms. At the very least I can imagine things like factories/manufacturing closing in Germany and opening up in Hungary or getting outsourced out of EU completely. Every time you take a strong position, there must be consequences if the outcome is not in your favor. Russia has resources, Europe needs resources, there's no way around that. They can purchase "freedom" gas/oil from US but only temporary as it's just simply not sustainable. But Trump never said that he's going to make Europe great.

Without Ukraine agreeing to stay neutral this will not end. Plus being on war footing is very expensive, directly and indirectly. Who will pay for that, and what will happen to whatever population Ukraine still has left? Plus once martial's law is lifted people will get to decide whether they want to build factories for guns or butter.

It appears Ursula/EU is pushing Zelenskyy to fall into Trump's trap. If Zelenskyy doesn't accept Trump's terms today, Ukraine will just loose more people and more territory, then it will be impossible for Z to accept peace on even worse terms. The only possible outcomes if Z doesn't accept agreement today, will be either full capitulation of Ukraine or collapse of Russia, and probability is obviously not in Ukraine's favor

[DaRude]

Macron: Russia's offer to Ukraine would mean capitulation, not peace

Macron needs to get in line, and explained that it's not Ukrainian capitulation but the phrasing that he should use is Russia's loss.


Zelensky Thanks Trump More than a Dozen Times in Latest White House Visit

Interesting approach, Ukraine looses a ton of population, losses territory, previous president (Biden) didn't give enough for Ukraine to win, only to slowly loose, Trump barely provided anything at all, Zelenskyy gives rights to 50% of Ukraine's critical resources to Trump, and after that thanks Trump non-stop. I guess it's better than the alternatives.

[hellflame]

As I've been saying multiple times, it's not about the land (Russia has plenty)

It is just a coincidence Russia will now control a continuous land bridge all the way to Crimea along Ukraines prime coastline?

[paxmao]

Oh... so many quesions to answer , by everyone




^^^^

Sure, just as Zelenskiy must "declare victory" in any outcome whatsoever, and Trump and EU must all "declare victory" in any outcome whatsoever. So everyone must claim to be a winner! For Putin, no NATO in Ukraine, return of Russian culture, language, books, religion etc.. in Ukraine, 5 new territories I believe would be an easy sell. Plus it sets a precedence, do you think Georgia or another buffer state would accept Nuland's cookies now seeing how much Ukrainians had to pay for those cookies in blood and territory? Also, don't forget the agreements between US and Russia are not only shortsighted to stop the immediate guns from firing, like I've been saying big game is played for spheres of influence, and voters in Odesa and Kharkiv will be the most problematic and become huge liability for current regime in Ukraine.

Demilitarise - of course vague from the start on purpose, but if Ukraine will become a neutral state and not under any military alliance like NATO, I'd argue that this point was achieved.
de-nazify - i believe the most aggressive nazi's that wanted to fight Russia the most, did so first and are no longer with us. Azov one of the most radical groups with literal Black Sun in it's logo is now just a shell of itself and was integrated into official Ukrainian army and removed the Black Sun. After the guns are silenced it be hard for wounded nazi's to get new recruits and those that are not wounded would be a laughed at as they retreated from Mariupol and left most of their comrades there and then retreated from all of Donbas. It's hard to sell yourself when you retreated. Plus with Russian culture and language the victory day and Ukrainian role in defeating Nazi's would also come back to the masses, and Bandera and right sector would be tabooed.
We're yet to see what will happen to the Ukrainian regime once guns go silent. This would be the next step, and it's impossible that it wasn't part of the agreements discussed by Putin and Trump
Russia was only asking for Donbas (2 regions) before this all started, plus I'm sure Russia will publish US's written response to its security demands that it received in January 2022 before this all started.
Not taking Zaporizhzhia and Kherson (cities) would be a huge minus for Putin, but if Putin gets everything else i believe Russians will be able to overlook it

Of course i do not have any insights on the terms of the actual proposal. But if in it Putin didn't get those things, like if Russia had to hand over Kherson Oblast to Ukraine, or Ukraine was allowed to join NATO, or Russian language didn't return to Ukraine, then selling it as a win for Putin would be much more problematic.

If Ukraine won't be neutral and is allowed to be armed to the teeth including nuclear arsenal then i will concede that it will be a loss for Russia.

But i think you're doing a great job prepping the ground and claiming this as not a win for Russia. If Russia gets all those things i talked about and you can somehow sell it as not a win for Russia, then i'm all for it.

I do not think that Zelensky has to announce a victory. Remember, he is actually an elected president. I doubt very much he wants to stay in power (I would not).

Return of Ruzzian culture... I do not see how that is going to happen. Ruzzia now is hated - as you would imagine.

New territories (5??), maybe. But you have to ask what did you exchange for them and how long will you be able to hold them.

No NATO... well, formally that may or may not be the case, but after this war, Ukraine will be permanently in war footing. No more "surprises" and if Ruzzia wants to try again, it will find something completely different. I think Putin and the future gangsters of Ruzzia understand the real cost of invading.

But again, all this may or may not be. I do not picture Zelensky giving territory for free and I do not picture Europe taking just any deal no matter how bad. After all, US is no longer a trusted ally, so if there needs to be confrontation, there will be confrontation.

The Ukrainian elected president's term ended in March 2024.

Not according to Ukranian constitution, but as usual you miss the point. Zelensky is not a problem, he will most likely not want to be president.

But be careful with what you wish for.

If Russian language and religion is not returned to Ukraine then it won't be a win for Russia.

Religion is not a problem. Having a church that is acting as an spionage service is. If it is not a win.. who cares.

Crimea, Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson, Zaporizhzhia. As I've been saying multiple times, it's not about the land (Russia has plenty) and it's not even about Ukraine, but about spheres of influence and Russia's position in the world order.

I guess that Ruzzia has demonstrated then that it cannot keep such "sphere" nor a piramid, nor anything frankly.

EU needs Russia's resources,

"Need" is relative term. Europe needs to be Europe and trading resources for sovereignty... I do not see it. Perhaps we are where we are because Merkel did trust Ruzzia.

 if Russia comes out independent out of this then it gets to decide who in EU gets it's resources and on what terms.

A deal needs a buyer and a seller. Ruzzia will have to figure out who can PAY for such resources.

At the very least I can imagine things like factories/manufacturing closing in Germany and opening up in Hungary or getting outsourced out of EU

That is because you do not know why factories are in Germany and you have a simplistic view of how industry works. BTW, your ignorance also extends to how the EU works. There is no internal border. Something that gets to Bulgary is in the EU. Ruzzia cannot choose just "one country" in a common market. I hope your hopes were not placed on that idea. Nor on the idea of industrial relocation to Bulgary (I am laugingh my but out).

completely. Every time you take a strong position, there must be consequences if the outcome is not in your favor. Russia has resources, Europe needs resources, there's no way around that. They can purchase "freedom" gas/oil from US but only temporary as it's just simply not sustainable.

Unfortunately, the moment Ruzzia starts talking nukes and pressing Europe, "freedom oil" is the only oil. Again, go sell to China and good luck with the price.

But Trump never said that he's going to make Europe great.

Pretty much the opposite, agreed.

Without Ukraine agreeing to stay neutral this will not end.

Then it does not end. Again, the "spehere" has poped, it is just a question of when Ruzzia will see it. It will take time of course, it is a hard pill to swallow.

 What is the problem? I do not see any problem seeing Ruzzia loose one refinery a day, or an oil tanker, or more strategic bombers, or more long range radars...

Plus being on war footing is very expensive, directly and indirectly. Who will pay for that,

That is a very good question. The USSR did not find the answer to it and blew, maybe Putin and the next gangsters do, but weapons races are more expensive than car races.

and what will happen to whatever population Ukraine still has left? Plus once martial's law is lifted people will get to decide whether they want to build factories for guns or butter.

What an argument. I do not need to answer that.

It appears Ursula/EU is pushing Zelenskyy to fall into Trump's trap.

That is not true. Europe wants guarantees for Ukraine, because that is pretty much equivalent of having guarantees for Europe. That is the whole point of supporting Ukraine - achieve security in Europe.

I guess the best guarantee is for Ukraine to have a nuclear programe of its own? Missiles 500 km from Moscow?

If Zelenskyy doesn't accept Trump's terms today, Ukraine will just loose more people and more territory, then it will be impossible for Z to accept peace on even worse terms. The only possible outcomes if Z doesn't accept agreement today, will be either full capitulation of Ukraine or collapse of Russia, and probability is obviously not in Ukraine's favor

Well, that may or may not happen. At the current pace, Ruzzia would need years to achieve even the most modest goals, while loosing troops, money, irreplaceable assets, refineries and, if secondary sanctions like to ones applied to India spread... 50% of buyers.

[Shova]

Putin's ego might prevent him for sitting together with someone like Zelensky in a table. But if its required to bring peace, he should live with that humiliation as it might be the right thing to do at current time to stop the bloodshed.

Ukraine is a buffer zone created as a result of Soviet Union losing the cold war. With changing politco-economic status, the line could be redrawn soon. But it won't prevent any side involved to redrawing it with changing circumstances in the future.

[DaRude]

Oh... so many quesions to answer , by everyone




^^^^

Sure, just as Zelenskiy must "declare victory" in any outcome whatsoever, and Trump and EU must all "declare victory" in any outcome whatsoever. So everyone must claim to be a winner! For Putin, no NATO in Ukraine, return of Russian culture, language, books, religion etc.. in Ukraine, 5 new territories I believe would be an easy sell. Plus it sets a precedence, do you think Georgia or another buffer state would accept Nuland's cookies now seeing how much Ukrainians had to pay for those cookies in blood and territory? Also, don't forget the agreements between US and Russia are not only shortsighted to stop the immediate guns from firing, like I've been saying big game is played for spheres of influence, and voters in Odesa and Kharkiv will be the most problematic and become huge liability for current regime in Ukraine.

Demilitarise - of course vague from the start on purpose, but if Ukraine will become a neutral state and not under any military alliance like NATO, I'd argue that this point was achieved.
de-nazify - i believe the most aggressive nazi's that wanted to fight Russia the most, did so first and are no longer with us. Azov one of the most radical groups with literal Black Sun in it's logo is now just a shell of itself and was integrated into official Ukrainian army and removed the Black Sun. After the guns are silenced it be hard for wounded nazi's to get new recruits and those that are not wounded would be a laughed at as they retreated from Mariupol and left most of their comrades there and then retreated from all of Donbas. It's hard to sell yourself when you retreated. Plus with Russian culture and language the victory day and Ukrainian role in defeating Nazi's would also come back to the masses, and Bandera and right sector would be tabooed.
We're yet to see what will happen to the Ukrainian regime once guns go silent. This would be the next step, and it's impossible that it wasn't part of the agreements discussed by Putin and Trump
Russia was only asking for Donbas (2 regions) before this all started, plus I'm sure Russia will publish US's written response to its security demands that it received in January 2022 before this all started.
Not taking Zaporizhzhia and Kherson (cities) would be a huge minus for Putin, but if Putin gets everything else i believe Russians will be able to overlook it

Of course i do not have any insights on the terms of the actual proposal. But if in it Putin didn't get those things, like if Russia had to hand over Kherson Oblast to Ukraine, or Ukraine was allowed to join NATO, or Russian language didn't return to Ukraine, then selling it as a win for Putin would be much more problematic.

If Ukraine won't be neutral and is allowed to be armed to the teeth including nuclear arsenal then i will concede that it will be a loss for Russia.

But i think you're doing a great job prepping the ground and claiming this as not a win for Russia. If Russia gets all those things i talked about and you can somehow sell it as not a win for Russia, then i'm all for it.

I do not think that Zelensky has to announce a victory. Remember, he is actually an elected president. I doubt very much he wants to stay in power (I would not).

Return of Ruzzian culture... I do not see how that is going to happen. Ruzzia now is hated - as you would imagine.

New territories (5??), maybe. But you have to ask what did you exchange for them and how long will you be able to hold them.

No NATO... well, formally that may or may not be the case, but after this war, Ukraine will be permanently in war footing. No more "surprises" and if Ruzzia wants to try again, it will find something completely different. I think Putin and the future gangsters of Ruzzia understand the real cost of invading.

But again, all this may or may not be. I do not picture Zelensky giving territory for free and I do not picture Europe taking just any deal no matter how bad. After all, US is no longer a trusted ally, so if there needs to be confrontation, there will be confrontation.

The Ukrainian elected president's term ended in March 2024.

Not according to Ukranian constitution, but as usual you miss the point. Zelensky is not a problem, he will most likely not want to be president.

But be careful with what you wish for.

If Russian language and religion is not returned to Ukraine then it won't be a win for Russia.

Religion is not a problem. Having a church that is acting as an spionage service is. If it is not a win.. who cares.

Crimea, Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson, Zaporizhzhia. As I've been saying multiple times, it's not about the land (Russia has plenty) and it's not even about Ukraine, but about spheres of influence and Russia's position in the world order.

I guess that Ruzzia has demonstrated then that it cannot keep such "sphere" nor a piramid, nor anything frankly.

EU needs Russia's resources,

"Need" is relative term. Europe needs to be Europe and trading resources for sovereignty... I do not see it. Perhaps we are where we are because Merkel did trust Ruzzia.

 if Russia comes out independent out of this then it gets to decide who in EU gets it's resources and on what terms.

A deal needs a buyer and a seller. Ruzzia will have to figure out who can PAY for such resources.

At the very least I can imagine things like factories/manufacturing closing in Germany and opening up in Hungary or getting outsourced out of EU

That is because you do not know why factories are in Germany and you have a simplistic view of how industry works. BTW, your ignorance also extends to how the EU works. There is no internal border. Something that gets to Bulgary is in the EU. Ruzzia cannot choose just "one country" in a common market. I hope your hopes were not placed on that idea. Nor on the idea of industrial relocation to Bulgary (I am laugingh my but out).

completely. Every time you take a strong position, there must be consequences if the outcome is not in your favor. Russia has resources, Europe needs resources, there's no way around that. They can purchase "freedom" gas/oil from US but only temporary as it's just simply not sustainable.

Unfortunately, the moment Ruzzia starts talking nukes and pressing Europe, "freedom oil" is the only oil. Again, go sell to China and good luck with the price.

But Trump never said that he's going to make Europe great.

Pretty much the opposite, agreed.

Without Ukraine agreeing to stay neutral this will not end.

Then it does not end. Again, the "spehere" has poped, it is just a question of when Ruzzia will see it. It will take time of course, it is a hard pill to swallow.

 What is the problem? I do not see any problem seeing Ruzzia loose one refinery a day, or an oil tanker, or more strategic bombers, or more long range radars...

Plus being on war footing is very expensive, directly and indirectly. Who will pay for that,

That is a very good question. The USSR did not find the answer to it and blew, maybe Putin and the next gangsters do, but weapons races are more expensive than car races.

and what will happen to whatever population Ukraine still has left? Plus once martial's law is lifted people will get to decide whether they want to build factories for guns or butter.

What an argument. I do not need to answer that.

It appears Ursula/EU is pushing Zelenskyy to fall into Trump's trap.

That is not true. Europe wants guarantees for Ukraine, because that is pretty much equivalent of having guarantees for Europe. That is the whole point of supporting Ukraine - achieve security in Europe.

I guess the best guarantee is for Ukraine to have a nuclear programe of its own? Missiles 500 km from Moscow?

If Zelenskyy doesn't accept Trump's terms today, Ukraine will just loose more people and more territory, then it will be impossible for Z to accept peace on even worse terms. The only possible outcomes if Z doesn't accept agreement today, will be either full capitulation of Ukraine or collapse of Russia, and probability is obviously not in Ukraine's favor

Well, that may or may not happen. At the current pace, Ruzzia would need years to achieve even the most modest goals, while loosing troops, money, irreplaceable assets, refineries and, if secondary sanctions like to ones applied to India spread... 50% of buyers.

Yes according to Ukrainian constitution Zelenskiy's term ended on March 2024. You have to do some serious mental gymnastics and make wild assumptions to interpret it otherwise. Sure Zaluzhnyi can become a president and it might be better for Russia to keep Zelenskiy, but that's besides the point that Ukrainian constitution is clear about presidential term, and unlike Ukrainian parliament it does NOT extend presidential term during martial's law.

Religion is not a problem, religion that we don't control and doesn't serve our purposes is.   classic.

Russia demonstrated that encroachments on it's remaining sphere of influence is an existential threat for Russia. Everyone is well aware of this, and this is exactly the root cause of this whole thing. West tried to go for the final kill but got pushed back. 2013 Yanukovych is in power in Ukraine and no one in Europe cares or blinks an eye, now all major EU leaders are a cheerleader team for Ukraine, suddenly saying how Ukraine is critical to Europe.

Secretary of State Rice, Merkel's security adviser Heusgen and others stood at a bar table. Russia by itself is just one country, the American argued, according to participants, whereas Russia plus Ukraine and Belarus is an empire. She stressed that such an empire, once established, would once again seek to dominate Europe, and that the Kremlin would again pursue an aggressive foreign policy.

Europe just doesn't have the resources to sustain itself or to manufacture products for export. So it needs to import resources, and it needs to import resources at such a prices that would keep the final product competitive on the global market. Europe needs to either outsource all of it's manufacturing to regions with cheaper resources and transition to providing services or it needs the leverage of Russian resources. Subsidizing manufacturing to work on American freedom gas is just not sustainable long term.

Merkel was the only one that managed to keep everything together. When she resigned AfD was at 11%, now AfD is at 24% and it's inevitable that Merz will only continue dropping. This is the real existential thread for Germany and Europe, what genius figured that it's worth risking this over Ukraine is beyond me, but then again once you become a puppet and puppeteer decides to take care of himself first you won't have an option. Germany is now screwed, and if they try to outlaw a party that every 4th person supports, it'll get even worse very fast.


Concept of maximizing short term profit is secondary to long term national interests for independent countries. Even new companies realized this and are operating in red for many years and only turn profit once they monopolize the market and consumer has little choice. Everyone realizes that there are no free cookies.

Yes if factories move from Germany to Hungary they're still in EU, clearly it's a net negative for Germany and positive for Hungary, but a zero net for EU.
The HCOB Germany Manufacturing PMI was revised slightly lower to 49.1 in July 2025 from a preliminary of 49.2 and compared to 49 in June, continuing to point to a deterioration in manufacturing business conditions. anything bellow 50 is a contraction, meaning worse off than before. And that's the power house of Europe
Mississippi, the poorest state in the United States, is close to surpassing Europe's largest economy Germany's GDP per capita.
Are you not aware that Russia negotiated terms of oil/gas sales individually with each country and not with EU as a whole? And that's another reason why EU leaders went to Washington. Once sanctions are lifted guess what happens when both Orban and Merz go back to negotiate the terms on Russian resources for their factories.

China cares about Russian price of oil much less than EU does. Meaning both prioritize their long term interests over short term "sale", but China has a much longer horizon. Only now Russia will get an option, and EU will loose the leverage of being the largest buyer.

If Ukraine won't be neutral and won't have limits on the size of its army it will indeed be a very hard, if not impossible, pill for Russia to swallow.

Once again with claims that guarantees of NATO's article 5 suddenly mean nothing for Europe and somehow now suddenly everything depends on Ukraine which no one cared about in 2013. Russia will collapse before it lets Ukraine get nuclear weapons (while not being in Russia's sphere).

War has been going for 3.5yrs are you saying Russia can't keep this up for just 12 more months to achieve it's goals on a battlefield? And somehow Ukraine and EU know this and that's why they're talking about just giving remaining Donbas territories to Russia for free? Right, makes sense

Edit: Wondering why we aren't hearing much from Boris Johnson? Did all Ukrainian border guards receive his picture to make sure to not let him into the country, so he won't be able to torpedo another agreement?

[paxmao]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMJkYfc-ucA

Ukraine has repeated the "Amazon Delivery", this time destroying fuel trains.

Oh... so many quesions to answer , by everyone




^^^^

Sure, just as Zelenskiy must "declare victory" in any outcome whatsoever, and Trump and EU must all "declare victory" in any outcome whatsoever. So everyone must claim to be a winner! For Putin, no NATO in Ukraine, return of Russian culture, language, books, religion etc.. in Ukraine, 5 new territories I believe would be an easy sell. Plus it sets a precedence, do you think Georgia or another buffer state would accept Nuland's cookies now seeing how much Ukrainians had to pay for those cookies in blood and territory? Also, don't forget the agreements between US and Russia are not only shortsighted to stop the immediate guns from firing, like I've been saying big game is played for spheres of influence, and voters in Odesa and Kharkiv will be the most problematic and become huge liability for current regime in Ukraine.

Demilitarise - of course vague from the start on purpose, but if Ukraine will become a neutral state and not under any military alliance like NATO, I'd argue that this point was achieved.
de-nazify - i believe the most aggressive nazi's that wanted to fight Russia the most, did so first and are no longer with us. Azov one of the most radical groups with literal Black Sun in it's logo is now just a shell of itself and was integrated into official Ukrainian army and removed the Black Sun. After the guns are silenced it be hard for wounded nazi's to get new recruits and those that are not wounded would be a laughed at as they retreated from Mariupol and left most of their comrades there and then retreated from all of Donbas. It's hard to sell yourself when you retreated. Plus with Russian culture and language the victory day and Ukrainian role in defeating Nazi's would also come back to the masses, and Bandera and right sector would be tabooed.
We're yet to see what will happen to the Ukrainian regime once guns go silent. This would be the next step, and it's impossible that it wasn't part of the agreements discussed by Putin and Trump
Russia was only asking for Donbas (2 regions) before this all started, plus I'm sure Russia will publish US's written response to its security demands that it received in January 2022 before this all started.
Not taking Zaporizhzhia and Kherson (cities) would be a huge minus for Putin, but if Putin gets everything else i believe Russians will be able to overlook it

Of course i do not have any insights on the terms of the actual proposal. But if in it Putin didn't get those things, like if Russia had to hand over Kherson Oblast to Ukraine, or Ukraine was allowed to join NATO, or Russian language didn't return to Ukraine, then selling it as a win for Putin would be much more problematic.

If Ukraine won't be neutral and is allowed to be armed to the teeth including nuclear arsenal then i will concede that it will be a loss for Russia.

But i think you're doing a great job prepping the ground and claiming this as not a win for Russia. If Russia gets all those things i talked about and you can somehow sell it as not a win for Russia, then i'm all for it.

I do not think that Zelensky has to announce a victory. Remember, he is actually an elected president. I doubt very much he wants to stay in power (I would not).

Return of Ruzzian culture... I do not see how that is going to happen. Ruzzia now is hated - as you would imagine.

New territories (5??), maybe. But you have to ask what did you exchange for them and how long will you be able to hold them.

No NATO... well, formally that may or may not be the case, but after this war, Ukraine will be permanently in war footing. No more "surprises" and if Ruzzia wants to try again, it will find something completely different. I think Putin and the future gangsters of Ruzzia understand the real cost of invading.

But again, all this may or may not be. I do not picture Zelensky giving territory for free and I do not picture Europe taking just any deal no matter how bad. After all, US is no longer a trusted ally, so if there needs to be confrontation, there will be confrontation.

The Ukrainian elected president's term ended in March 2024.

Not according to Ukranian constitution, but as usual you miss the point. Zelensky is not a problem, he will most likely not want to be president.

But be careful with what you wish for.

If Russian language and religion is not returned to Ukraine then it won't be a win for Russia.

Religion is not a problem. Having a church that is acting as an spionage service is. If it is not a win.. who cares.

Crimea, Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson, Zaporizhzhia. As I've been saying multiple times, it's not about the land (Russia has plenty) and it's not even about Ukraine, but about spheres of influence and Russia's position in the world order.

I guess that Ruzzia has demonstrated then that it cannot keep such "sphere" nor a piramid, nor anything frankly.

EU needs Russia's resources,

"Need" is relative term. Europe needs to be Europe and trading resources for sovereignty... I do not see it. Perhaps we are where we are because Merkel did trust Ruzzia.

 if Russia comes out independent out of this then it gets to decide who in EU gets it's resources and on what terms.

A deal needs a buyer and a seller. Ruzzia will have to figure out who can PAY for such resources.

At the very least I can imagine things like factories/manufacturing closing in Germany and opening up in Hungary or getting outsourced out of EU

That is because you do not know why factories are in Germany and you have a simplistic view of how industry works. BTW, your ignorance also extends to how the EU works. There is no internal border. Something that gets to Bulgary is in the EU. Ruzzia cannot choose just "one country" in a common market. I hope your hopes were not placed on that idea. Nor on the idea of industrial relocation to Bulgary (I am laugingh my but out).

completely. Every time you take a strong position, there must be consequences if the outcome is not in your favor. Russia has resources, Europe needs resources, there's no way around that. They can purchase "freedom" gas/oil from US but only temporary as it's just simply not sustainable.

Unfortunately, the moment Ruzzia starts talking nukes and pressing Europe, "freedom oil" is the only oil. Again, go sell to China and good luck with the price.

But Trump never said that he's going to make Europe great.

Pretty much the opposite, agreed.

Without Ukraine agreeing to stay neutral this will not end.

Then it does not end. Again, the "spehere" has poped, it is just a question of when Ruzzia will see it. It will take time of course, it is a hard pill to swallow.

 What is the problem? I do not see any problem seeing Ruzzia loose one refinery a day, or an oil tanker, or more strategic bombers, or more long range radars...

Plus being on war footing is very expensive, directly and indirectly. Who will pay for that,

That is a very good question. The USSR did not find the answer to it and blew, maybe Putin and the next gangsters do, but weapons races are more expensive than car races.

and what will happen to whatever population Ukraine still has left? Plus once martial's law is lifted people will get to decide whether they want to build factories for guns or butter.

What an argument. I do not need to answer that.

It appears Ursula/EU is pushing Zelenskyy to fall into Trump's trap.

That is not true. Europe wants guarantees for Ukraine, because that is pretty much equivalent of having guarantees for Europe. That is the whole point of supporting Ukraine - achieve security in Europe.

I guess the best guarantee is for Ukraine to have a nuclear programe of its own? Missiles 500 km from Moscow?

If Zelenskyy doesn't accept Trump's terms today, Ukraine will just loose more people and more territory, then it will be impossible for Z to accept peace on even worse terms. The only possible outcomes if Z doesn't accept agreement today, will be either full capitulation of Ukraine or collapse of Russia, and probability is obviously not in Ukraine's favor

Well, that may or may not happen. At the current pace, Ruzzia would need years to achieve even the most modest goals, while loosing troops, money, irreplaceable assets, refineries and, if secondary sanctions like to ones applied to India spread... 50% of buyers.

Yes according to Ukrainian constitution Zelenskiy's term ended on March 2024. You have to do some serious mental gymnastics and make wild assumptions to interpret it otherwise. Sure Zaluzhnyi can become a president and it might be better for Russia to keep Zelenskiy, but that's besides the point that Ukrainian constitution is clear about presidential term, and unlike Ukrainian parliament it does NOT extend presidential term during martial's law.

I already showed you the reason why he is still the president. Elections cannot be held when interference and lack of safety are certain.

No need for gym of any kind, but actually need to read.

Religion is not a problem, religion that we don't control and doesn't serve our purposes is.   classic.

The oposite is true: Ruzzia wants certain church (not religion) because it serves its purposes. There is no limit to the religion you can personally practice in Ukraine.

Russia demonstrated that encroachments on it's remaining sphere of influence is an existential threat for Russia.

"Demonstrated"... how does that work?

Remaining... or rather "growing if left unattended"?

Europe just doesn't have the resources to sustain itself or to manufacture products for export. So it needs to import resources, and it needs to import resources at such a prices that would keep the final product competitive on the global market. Europe needs to either outsource all of it's manufacturing to regions with cheaper resources and transition to providing services or it needs the leverage of Russian resources. Subsidizing manufacturing to work on American freedom gas is just not sustainable long term.

Which matters zero if Europe has to wage a war to defend itself from Ruzzia. That would be expensive. Feeding a bear makes a bigger bear.

Merkel was the only one that managed to keep everything together.

Translation: Merkel good because sold German industry to bear.

When she resigned AfD was at 11%, now AfD is at 24% and it's inevitable that Merz will only continue dropping. This is the real existential thread for Germany and Europe, what genius figured that it's worth risking this over Ukraine is beyond me, but then again once you become a puppet and puppeteer decides to take care of himself first you won't have an option. Germany is now screwed, and if they try to outlaw a party that every 4th person supports, it'll get even worse very fast.

And all that would be fine... until Putin decides to wage a war in Europe, invade an independent country, threaten with nukes.... Then you have to think of something else.

Yes if factories move from Germany to Hungary they're still in EU, clearly it's a net negative for Germany and positive for Hungary, but a zero net for EU.

Then these companies will have to deal with the Hungarian workforce, their skills and... the government. Ask yourself why is the industry still in Germany and not for example in Spain or Czeckia.

[...]
Are you not aware that Russia negotiated terms of oil/gas sales individually with each country and not with EU as a whole? And that's another reason why EU leaders went to Washington. Once sanctions are lifted guess what happens when both Orban and Merz go back to negotiate the terms on Russian resources for their factories.

Once this is settled, Germany will begin the production of a decent army - yes probably trading with Ruzzia among many partners that is for sure, but also making sure that they have alternatives if the bear goes mad again.

And... welcome again to the arms race - the end result of "spheres" that you seem to think as the only option.

China cares about Russian price of oil much less than EU does. Meaning both prioritize their long term interests over short term "sale", but China has a much longer horizon. Only now Russia will get an option, and EU will loose the leverage of being the largest buyer.

Of course China does not care about paying below market. Ruzzia however... they will sell below market. BTW it is quite clear that Europe can go on without Ruzzian gas. But Gazprom...

https://united24media.com/latest-news/russias-gas-empire-crumbles-gazprom-exports-to-europe-fall-to-50-year-low-10416

Now, even with the world’s largest proven gas reserves, Gazprom is running out of buyers. Russian domestic production is falling fast, with Rosstat reporting a 3.2% year-over-year decline in total gas output during the first half of 2025. Liquefied natural gas (LNG) production also dropped by 5.2%.

Earlier, the European Commission was set to propose legal measures in June to phase out the EU’s imports of all Russian liquified natural gas (LNG) by the end of 2027.

I do not believe everything I read but this should give you a hint.

If Ukraine won't be neutral and won't have limits on the size of its army it will indeed be a very hard, if not impossible, pill for Russia to swallow.

Too bad. I can recommend taking it with a glass of water. Or vodka. That is what happens when you try to take a country in a week and fail after years trying.

Once again with claims that guarantees of NATO's article 5 suddenly mean nothing for Europe and somehow now suddenly everything depends on Ukraine which no one cared about in 2013. Russia will collapse before it lets Ukraine get nuclear weapons (while not being in Russia's sphere).

War has been going for 3.5yrs are you saying Russia can't keep this up for just 12 more months to achieve it's goals on a battlefield?

Nobody knows - probably not even Putin giving the general lack of proper information in Ruzzia, but who said 12 months and who said that it would be enough for any goal. Do not make up things.

Maybe 12 months, maybe 12 years. At this pace of "advance".

And somehow Ukraine and EU know this and that's why they're talking about just giving remaining Donbas territories to Russia for free? Right, makes sense

I did not hear that from any European leader. Maybe you dream of it?

[BADecker]

~

And somehow Ukraine and EU know this and that's why they're talking about just giving remaining Donbas territories to Russia for free? Right, makes sense

I did not hear that from any European leader. Maybe you dream of it?

What a way to end your lengthy post! Maybe you were sleeping, then.

Of course DaRude is talking about the Trump Putin meeting in Alaska.

Western Europe will eventually agree with Trump. They don't have the money or any way to get the money. And if they don't agree, Trump will let them go their own way, and Russia will take them out with Oreshnik, the Burevestnik nuclear cruise missiles, standard ICBM's, and all kinds of submarine nukes stationed right off the shores of Western Europe.

[hellflame]

Western Europe will eventually agree with Trump. They don't have the money or any way to get the money. And if they don't agree, Trump will let them go their own way, and Russia will take them out with Oreshnik, the Burevestnik nuclear cruise missiles, standard ICBM's, and all kinds of submarine nukes stationed right off the shores of Western Europe.

That would also mean the end of Russia because both the UK and France would return fire in kind around about the same time article 5 kicks in when the US would be obliged to join in the party but that would be no good to TPTB because they need some sort of world to rule and preferably one that is not obliterated completely afterwards.

The big party would most likely take place in the middle east when maybe Egypt and Syria get into a catfight with Israel stuck in the middle that will force a new deal out there.

Any major war fought in europe would be "mainly" conventional and probably involve Russia along with Islamic countries from outside attacking along with Islamic fanatical forces and extremist left wing socialists already within europe working from the inside with main targets being France and Italy. Italy because the Islamic fanatics and socialists would be going after the last Catholic strongholds and France well that has already been sent into depravity already. The fanatics already have their strategies worked out with extremist collaborators within europe and the security services are sleeping on the job. The other target outside Europe for the fanatics is Israel.

The situation in Ukraine was being steered in this direction along with the sentiment towards Israel. Politicans are being led by the nose because many of these NGOs and thinktanks giving the advice work for their enemies.

Could be another conspiracy theory though .....

[montaga]

The fear is real, the mob lost control of the war. Ukraine people have take matters in own hand and have destroyed over 13% of total Russian oil refining capability , some with homemade wooden drones. A total nightmare for the industrial war machinery when ordinary take power.
This emergency meetings want help, Russia falling apart from within, Yugoslavia 2.0 in the making.
Konstantin https://youtu.be/GL-9X4Xpj78
A real danger of a chain reaction and other counrties follow

Massive fuel shortages
https://x.com/i/status/1958240162908864612

A the good old USSA days, coupons
https://x.com/victoriaslog/status/1957071313735979337/photo/1

[DaRude]

...

I already showed you the reason why he is still the president. Elections cannot be held when interference and lack of safety are certain.

No need for gym of any kind, but actually need to read.

And i showed and cited the constitution showing how it's not true. Are you saying that elections that US held in Afghanistan and Iraq with literal US troops with guns at voting stations were not legitimate? Good thing Taliban didn't win at those fair elections   Surely you won't claim double standards here again, right?

Religion is not a problem, religion that we don't control and doesn't serve our purposes is.   classic.

The oposite is true: Ruzzia wants certain church (not religion) because it serves its purposes. There is no limit to the religion you can personally practice in Ukraine.

You mean just as Ukraine wants certain church because it serves its purpose?

Russia demonstrated that encroachments on it's remaining sphere of influence is an existential threat for Russia.

"Demonstrated"... how does that work?

Remaining... or rather "growing if left unattended"?

That is objectively a lie.

Yeah look at Russian military sphere growing   Russians have even expanded to NATO's Belarus now!   quick send some cookies to Belarus, that should be enough to convince them to suicide themselves fighting Russia, and then perhaps after they're destroyed because of course US can't send them enough weapons to actually win over Russia, Belarusian president can come to the white house and thank US dozen times for the great opportunity to be a sacrificial pawn. All while letting China grow uncontrollably and provide them another discount on all the resources they might need. Solid plan!

Europe just doesn't have the resources to sustain itself or to manufacture products for export. So it needs to import resources, and it needs to import resources at such a prices that would keep the final product competitive on the global market. Europe needs to either outsource all of it's manufacturing to regions with cheaper resources and transition to providing services or it needs the leverage of Russian resources. Subsidizing manufacturing to work on American freedom gas is just not sustainable long term.

Which matters zero if Europe has to wage a war to defend itself from Ruzzia. That would be expensive. Feeding a bear makes a bigger bear.

Ah right, the scare tactics of Russia attacking NATO and only Ukraine can defend helpless NATO. How come in 2013 everything was fine, and no one even thought of Europe fighting Russia? What possible could've happened then to set all of this off.

Merkel was the only one that managed to keep everything together.

Translation: Merkel good because sold German industry to bear.

Merkel good because she kept status quo. Russia was not growing, and Germany was prospering. Now Germany's standards of living are dropping, Germany must send billions to Ukraine, Russia expanding, Germany lost access to Russia's resources, Trump imposed new tariffs on Germany, and Merz must go and thank Trump for this all

When she resigned AfD was at 11%, now AfD is at 24% and it's inevitable that Merz will only continue dropping. This is the real existential thread for Germany and Europe, what genius figured that it's worth risking this over Ukraine is beyond me, but then again once you become a puppet and puppeteer decides to take care of himself first you won't have an option. Germany is now screwed, and if they try to outlaw a party that every 4th person supports, it'll get even worse very fast.

And all that would be fine... until Putin decides to wage a war in Europe, invade an independent country, threaten with nukes.... Then you have to think of something else.

Rise of populists and nationalists across Europe, especially in Germany is fine for you? Trump in US, Giorgia Meloni in Italy, France, Germany hanging by a thread but Europe must send more money to Ukraine because that's working so great. It's like they're trying to destroy EU.

Yes if factories move from Germany to Hungary they're still in EU, clearly it's a net negative for Germany and positive for Hungary, but a zero net for EU.

Then these companies will have to deal with the Hungarian workforce, their skills and... the government. Ask yourself why is the industry still in Germany and not for example in Spain or Czeckia.

It's not about absolutes but the trend. And a blind can see where it's heading. I'm sure there will be no consequences whatsoever to push Germans a bit more, right?

[...]
Are you not aware that Russia negotiated terms of oil/gas sales individually with each country and not with EU as a whole? And that's another reason why EU leaders went to Washington. Once sanctions are lifted guess what happens when both Orban and Merz go back to negotiate the terms on Russian resources for their factories.

Once this is settled, Germany will begin the production of a decent army - yes probably trading with Ruzzia among many partners that is for sure, but also making sure that they have alternatives if the bear goes mad again.

And... welcome again to the arms race - the end result of "spheres" that you seem to think as the only option.

New arms race not because Russia wanted to put missiles in Mexico or Canada or wants to take over Poland, but because NATO wants to expand to Ukraine, makes total sense. And what happens when population doesn't believe this and wouldn't support this narrative. Can all populists and ultra rights parties be banned in Europe so not to provide people a choice? What are the consequences if that doesn't work out in Europe?

China cares about Russian price of oil much less than EU does. Meaning both prioritize their long term interests over short term "sale", but China has a much longer horizon. Only now Russia will get an option, and EU will loose the leverage of being the largest buyer.

Of course China does not care about paying below market. Ruzzia however... they will sell below market. BTW it is quite clear that Europe can go on without Ruzzian gas. But Gazprom...


https://united24media.com/latest-news/russias-gas-empire-crumbles-gazprom-exports-to-europe-fall-to-50-year-low-10416

Now, even with the world’s largest proven gas reserves, Gazprom is running out of buyers. Russian domestic production is falling fast, with Rosstat reporting a 3.2% year-over-year decline in total gas output during the first half of 2025. Liquefied natural gas (LNG) production also dropped by 5.2%.

Earlier, the European Commission was set to propose legal measures in June to phase out the EU’s imports of all Russian liquified natural gas (LNG) by the end of 2027.

I do not believe everything I read but this should give you a hint.

So Europe is paying to providing discount to China which supports Russia, makes sense. How long can Europe/US continue to subsidize China and provide them billions in discounts before everyone realizes that they're creating a much bigger problem?

Beijing, from all indications, hopes that the war in Ukraine will continue indefinitely. Hong Kong's South China Morning Post reported that Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi told Kaja Kallas, the EU foreign policy chief, on July 2 that China does not want Russia to lose because then the U.S. would focus on China. In addition to the continuation of the conflict, the Chinese leadership got something else on Friday. "For Beijing, the Alaska summit confirmed its core belief: The world is a stage for great-power bargains over spheres of influence," Charles Burton of the Prague-based Sinopsis think tank told Newsweek.

If Ukraine won't be neutral and won't have limits on the size of its army it will indeed be a very hard, if not impossible, pill for Russia to swallow.

Too bad. I can recommend taking it with a glass of water. Or vodka. That is what happens when you try to take a country in a week and fail after years trying.

I'm afraid you'll be very disappointed once the agreement (if it happens) is disclosed.

Once again with claims that guarantees of NATO's article 5 suddenly mean nothing for Europe and somehow now suddenly everything depends on Ukraine which no one cared about in 2013. Russia will collapse before it lets Ukraine get nuclear weapons (while not being in Russia's sphere).

War has been going for 3.5yrs are you saying Russia can't keep this up for just 12 more months to achieve it's goals on a battlefield?

Nobody knows - probably not even Putin giving the general lack of proper information in Ruzzia, but who said 12 months and who said that it would be enough for any goal. Do not make up things.

Maybe 12 months, maybe 12 years. At this pace of "advance".

If Ukrainians somehow manage to keep retreating at the current pace it'll take Russia under a year to take all of their claimed territories.

And somehow Ukraine and EU know this and that's why they're talking about just giving remaining Donbas territories to Russia for free? Right, makes sense

I did not hear that from any European leader. Maybe you dream of it?

Since when anyone cares what European leaders have to say when Putin and Trump are talking directly? Trump didn't even greet them when they showed up at the white house, much less offer them a ride in his limo. Do you really think European leaders can go against what Trump decides to do?

[BADecker]

Western Europe will eventually agree with Trump. They don't have the money or any way to get the money. And if they don't agree, Trump will let them go their own way, and Russia will take them out with Oreshnik, the Burevestnik nuclear cruise missiles, standard ICBM's, and all kinds of submarine nukes stationed right off the shores of Western Europe.

That would also mean the end of Russia because both the UK and France would return fire in kind around about the same time article 5 kicks in when the US would be obliged to join in the party but that would be no good to TPTB because they need some sort of world to rule and preferably one that is not obliterated completely afterwards.

The big party would most likely take place in the middle east when maybe Egypt and Syria get into a catfight with Israel stuck in the middle that will force a new deal out there.

Any major war fought in europe would be "mainly" conventional and probably involve Russia along with Islamic countries from outside attacking along with Islamic fanatical forces and extremist left wing socialists already within europe working from the inside with main targets being France and Italy. Italy because the Islamic fanatics and socialists would be going after the last Catholic strongholds and France well that has already been sent into depravity already. The fanatics already have their strategies worked out with extremist collaborators within europe and the security services are sleeping on the job. The other target outside Europe for the fanatics is Israel.

The situation in Ukraine was being steered in this direction along with the sentiment towards Israel. Politicans are being led by the nose because many of these NGOs and thinktanks giving the advice work for their enemies.

Could be another conspiracy theory though .....

Members of the US government tell us that Russia has nuclear superiority. Nobody wants an all-out nuclear war. Right now Russia is training China in war tactics and sharing some of their military prowess with them... in return for some drone electronics, which are getting better and better.

If Western Europe alienates Trump enough, they might just be destroyed before Trump can turn around and help them out.

There are mountains all over the place. Russia is prepared in the Urals, where French or British nukes won't affect them much. And I am sure that Western Europe is prepared in whatever mountains they have.

Russia doesn't control a bunch of their own nukes. If automatic sensors determine that there has been a nuke launch against Russia, even Russians won't be able to stop their own missiles from firing... against the US, too. The West is not sure where the level of sensor sensitivity is that might cause the Russian nukes to automatically fire. It's called 'Dead Hand'.

Trump is trying to do everything that he can to keep nuclear war from happening. Let's hope he knows what he is doing.

[montaga]

Putin needs a victory like yesterday the country once again dying from inside out even the Smithsonian puppet Orban want help much.
Panic poor at the deep state as the poster boy of how you controll people is in a lot of bother. Which one of the 21 republics will be first to spilt?
Meanwhile more kabooms, maybe Dimo can provide some better news?
https://youtu.be/wrkMVuSMGBI
The war may start proper now, it sure want be peace as long as crimeas are not in crimea, not Russian and not Ukrainien.
Three front collaps
https://youtu.be/HY93mf0tJLA

[BADecker]

Seems that over last night, Russia attacked Western Ukraine with loads of drones and missiles. Usually they do this right before they start another aggressive move.

Ukraine's fuel tank is almost empty. But until it is completely empty, you won't know it from their activities.

Of course, we are seeing troops from all over Europe fighting Russia in Ukraine. Russia shows them to us in the body counts they are racking up.

[montaga]

Ukraine has now build 480 Flamingo long-range missiles with over 1000 kg payload and 3000km range
Russia moved hypersonic Oreshnik missiles into Belarus
UK preparing for mass casualities

[DaRude]

If you want to get an idea of how Trump sees this, here are some quotes from his interview to Fox

And we're just gonna see, so we're setting up a meeting. I sort of set it up with Putin and Zelenskyy and you know, they're the ones that have to call the shots. We're -- we're 7,000 miles away in all fairness. You know, we have -- We've spent through the previous administration $350 billion. Europe has spent a lot also, 100 billion, but it should be reversed if we should have been in for anything, but it wouldn't have happened.

Well, the war really started over NATO and Crimea, and they wanted Crimea back, that was given. Not a shot fired by President Obama in perhaps the worst real estate deal I've ever seen. I've, there's been a couple of them. I would say the Gaza Strip was a pretty bad one too, given by Israel, so they'd have peace.

So they gave away a big percentage of their oceanfront property in order to have peace. How did that work out? Not so good.

And, uh, Crimea is the apple of, of Ukraine. I mean, it's so beautiful. And, uh, Obama gave it away. Nobody ever mentions that. If I ever did that, the fake news would be, uh, they would be writing about me day and night for years. He gave it away. He demanded they, that they let it go, and Russia came in and took it. Uh, just took it like from a candy from a baby.

It was really Obama's -- Uh, not really. I mean, that was, pure and simple, Obama's fault. What a terrible thing he did to that country. And so they lost their heart. They lost the, the heart and soul of the Ukraine 14 years ago, whatever it might be, and, uh, it was so unnecessary to do that. And that's when it really began, when Obama gave it away.

And so there's, uh, there's great hostility and, uh, maybe rightfully so. But one thing was NATO, they, they went in, they said, "We want you -- You know, we wanna get Crimea back." This was at the beginning. Now Putin, in all fairness to him, he made a good deal. He got it from Obama, but they said, "We want it back." And that was not exactly well received, because it was like 12 years before.

That's where Russia has its submarine base. And, you know, that's been there long before Putin, you know, they've been there for a long time, but long before Putin. And the other thing, uh, they said is, "We want to be a member of NATO." Well, both of those things are impossible because, again, long before Putin, it was a no-no by Russia or the Soviet Union or anything you wanna call it. Uh, sort of a similar thing as it gets larger, but, uh, very similar.

But it was, it was always a no-no. You could not -- Russia said, "We don't want, uh, the so-called opponent or the enemy." Let's use that term. "We don't want 'em on our border." And they were right. They were okay. And, yet, uh, they went in and they asked with the United States, they said, "Put us into NATO." And everybody knew you can't, you just can't do that.
...
-- there'll be some form of security. It can't be NATO because that was a, uh, that's just not something that would ever, ever happen. He couldn't, they couldn't do that.

Who would want that? I mean, if you were Russia, who would want to have your, your enemy, your opponent sitting on your line. You don't do that. So it was always thought that -- that, uh, Ukraine was, uh, sort of a buffer between Russia and the rest of Europe. And it was, it was a big wide buffer. Everything worked out well until Biden got involved, you know, when Biden gave them $100 billion dollars right up front.

I don't give them anything. You know, I don't know if you know it, but since I've been there, we -- we don't pay. First of all, I made a deal to take rare earth. That's the equivalent of much more than the 350 billion that Biden, uh, got away because I felt so foolish. It was so stupid what he did. And I was able to make a deal with Ukraine, and they were very nice.

They have great rare earth among the best in the world, and we took much more than the 350 billion. And they -- they were great about it. So we got that, you know -- you know handled. But now we don't pay any money to Ukraine. They buy through the -- through NATO, because I got NATO to go from 2% to 5%. 2% when they didn't pay, 2% of GDP, 2% when they didn't pay and 5% now they do pay.
...
So we're not losing. We don't -- we're not like we were with Biden where we are paying hundreds of billions of dollars out. We're paying nothing.
...
No, it's a fractured relationship. And when I came in, I always had, despite the Russia, Russia, Russia hoax, which truly was a very dangerous thing for our country. But despite that, I maintained a very good relationship. I mean, you saw that when he got off his plane, I got off my plane. There's a warmth there that you can't, you know -- There's a -- there's a decent feeling.

Transcribe https://rollcall.com/factbase/trump/transcript/donald-trump-interview-fox-and-friends-telephone-august-19-2025/

I mean US president directly stated that Ukraine is a buffer state, and you don't have you enemy sitting in a buffer state. I don't know how much clearer he can say that this is about spheres of influence and buffers between great powers.

And just in case any Europeans still believe in rules. law and not abusing power

IMPOSING SANCTIONS ON THE INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT
 I, DONALD J. TRUMP, President of the United States of America, find that the International Criminal Court (ICC), as established by the Rome Statute, has engaged in illegitimate and baseless actions targeting America and our close ally Israel.  The ICC has, without a legitimate basis, asserted jurisdiction over and opened preliminary investigations concerning personnel of the United States and certain of its allies, including Israel, and has further abused its power by issuing baseless arrest warrants targeting Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Former Minister of Defense Yoav Gallant.
...

The United States unequivocally opposes and expects our allies to oppose any ICC actions against the United States, Israel, or any other ally of the United States that has not consented to ICC jurisdiction.  The United States remains committed to accountability and to the peaceful cultivation of international order, but the ICC and parties to the Rome Statute must respect the decisions of the United States and other countries not to subject their personnel to the ICC’s jurisdiction, consistent with their respective sovereign prerogatives.

The United States will impose tangible and significant consequences on those responsible for the ICC’s transgressions, some of which may include the blocking of property and assets, as well as the suspension of entry into the United States of ICC officials, employees, and agents, as well as their immediate family members, as their entry into our Nation would be detrimental to the interests of the United States.

So for US and any other ally of the US ICC laws don't apply, but who cares if Yugoslavia, Libya didn't sign the Rome statue to them the law! “To my friends, anything; to my enemies, the law” Can someone tell Putin that apparently anyone can just sanction ICC back if you don't like what they're doing, cause that's how law works, right?

[paxmao]

Ukraine has presented something called "the flamingo". It is a cruise missile.

The engine is similar to that of a training plane and is available in good quantities, produced in Ukraine and also compatible with an engine that is mass produced in the US.

The range is more than 2000 km.

The warhead is 1000 tons. Basically a soviet time reliable and available in massive numbers in storage. It has a guiding system. Ukraine has already been able to hit 1000 and more behind the frontline. Expect the same. The rest of the missile is just welded metal and is easy to produce.

Ukraine can produce 1 a day right now. They will be able to produce 7 a day before the end of the year. This means that 7 expensive, difficult to replace and protected things in Ruzzia will blow every day.

You will need to sell a lot of oil to pay that. Oh... unless they target the oil production.

[Xal0lex]

The warhead is 1000 tons.

1000 tons?  Really? Maybe 1000 kilograms?