Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress]

[GoMaD]

Like i already quoted. It would be the same in russia under martial law.

so what is your point?

[Branko]

Like i already quoted. It would be the same in russia under martial law.

so what is your point?

He is probably wondering what's the difference, then? Why USA helped Albanians on Kosovo,
but in the same situation in Ukraine helped oppressive central government, instead Russians
in Donetsk and Lugansk

[BADecker]

It might be similar in Russia or many countries. But the point is, for the moment there is no Ukraine... except in the hearts and minds of those who want to believe that there is. If not Ukraine, then what? Zelensky-land... at least until he restores Ukraine, or is assassinated, or is forced out or something similar, where he loses power in Z-land.

https://rumble.com/v6p1f2f-west-russia-ties-mend-zelensky-stops-trump-putin-russias-final-push-militar.html?e9s=src_v1_ucp

[Lucius]

Ukrainian drones have no mercy for Russian vehicles, especially in the vicinity of Pokrovsk - it must be admitted that they have perfected themselves to the point that Russians run away from their vehicles as soon as they hear the sound of a drone.

https://x.com/moklasen/status/1894106367511626122

[Branko]

Ukrainian drones have no mercy for Russian vehicles, especially in the vicinity of Pokrovsk - it must be admitted that they have perfected themselves to the point that Russians run away from their vehicles as soon as they hear the sound of a drone.

https://x.com/moklasen/status/1894106367511626122

Actually, Russian soldiers are known as world biggest collector of Ukrainian drones. They have so much electronic warfare
equipment proven in battle:

[BADecker]

Ukrainian drones have no mercy for Russian vehicles, especially in the vicinity of Pokrovsk - it must be admitted that they have perfected themselves to the point that Russians run away from their vehicles as soon as they hear the sound of a drone.

https://x.com/moklasen/status/1894106367511626122

Actually, Russian soldiers are known as world biggest collector of Ukrainian drones. They have so much electronic warfare
equipment proven in battle:

https://i.ibb.co/rK9yP1GV/008yxo-SWgy1hyw8ggeimuj30v80zk7fi.jpg

Not much you can do with all this junk, right?     

[paxmao]

Ukrainian drones have no mercy for Russian vehicles, especially in the vicinity of Pokrovsk - it must be admitted that they have perfected themselves to the point that Russians run away from their vehicles as soon as they hear the sound of a drone.

https://x.com/moklasen/status/1894106367511626122

Actually, Russian soldiers are known as world biggest collector of Ukrainian drones. They have so much electronic warfare
equipment proven in battle:

Sure... drones are not doing anything. This is one hour of uninterrupted footage of Ukrainian drones intercepting Ruzzian drones...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9WNpegbmfE&t=5200s

Please, claim again anything stupid about drones, I also have hours of Ruzzian soldiers killed by drones just asking to be posted here.

Like i already quoted. It would be the same in russia under martial law.

so what is your point?

He is probably wondering what's the difference, then? Why USA helped Albanians on Kosovo,
but in the same situation in Ukraine helped oppressive central government, instead Russians
in Donetsk and Lugansk

No, they did the same, the supported Ukraine against a dictatorial oppresive government - Putin's Ruzzia.

BTW Ruzzia took Donesk and Luhansk and annexed them, dictatorially and oppresively. And I really hope you are not trying to pass a "referedum" under military occupation as anything legal.

^^^ The point seems to be this. Once martial law has been enacted, here is no way to assure that it will ever be repealed. What that means is that the country has lost its constitution, its name, and its identity... at least until the martial law leader removes martial law.

This makes the martial law leader into a quasi-dictator. Even though there are all kinds of protections written into the constitution to keep this from happening, martial law is essentially a suspension of the constitution until the leader voluntarily steps down and reinstates the constitution.

Zelensky-land... until or if he decides to change things back to the constitutional republic that Ukraine was.

This is FALSE INFORMATION: The parliament can end the law. Martial law and other reductions in rights are subject to conditions.

[BADecker]

~

^^^ The point seems to be this. Once martial law has been enacted, here is no way to assure that it will ever be repealed. What that means is that the country has lost its constitution, its name, and its identity... at least until the martial law leader removes martial law.

This makes the martial law leader into a quasi-dictator. Even though there are all kinds of protections written into the constitution to keep this from happening, martial law is essentially a suspension of the constitution until the leader voluntarily steps down and reinstates the constitution.

Zelensky-land... until or if he decides to change things back to the constitutional republic that Ukraine was.

This is FALSE INFORMATION: The parliament can end the law. Martial law and other reductions in rights are subject to conditions.

But who will the military listen to, especially if the martial law has been in existence for some time?

[DaRude]

How it started

5 May 2022

As soon as the Ukrainian negotiators and Abramovich/Medinsky, following the outcome of Istanbul, had agreed on the structure of a future possible agreement in general terms, UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson appeared in Kyiv almost without warning.

"Johnson brought two simple messages to Kyiv. The first is that Putin is a war criminal; he should be pressured, not negotiated with. And the second is that even if Ukraine is ready to sign some agreements on guarantees with Putin, they are not. We can sign [an agreement] with you [Ukraine], but not with him. Anyway, he will screw everyone over", is how one of Zelenskyy's close associates summed up the essence of Johnson's visit.
...
Johnson’s position was that the collective West, which back in February had suggested Zelenskyy should surrender and flee, now felt that Putin was not really as powerful as they had previously imagined.

4 Sep 2024

He said: "I'm as passionate a supporter of Ukraine as you could imagine and I often wish I was gifted militarily myself and could go and lead a foreign legion in Ukraine if I was a general, but I'm not. I've never had that training."

Johnson also spoke about how he believes that with hindsight Ukrainian leader Volodymyr Zelensky would now have accepted the loss of the Donbass and Crimea in order to stop Russia's full invasion in February 2022.
...
He said: "The Ukrainians, they have to decide what they want, but clearly I think if it was February 2022 over again, I think Zelensky would accept, provided there was a Nato protection and a Nato security guarantee, I think Zelensky would accept the loss of the Donbass and the Crimea, or he would have done. Whether he can do that now, I doubt."
...

And now...

Boris Johnson lobbies for Donald Trump’s minerals deal with Ukraine

Former British prime minister says of proposed deal: “Yes, it’s extortionate looked at one way, but so was Lend-Lease in 1941, wasn’t it?”

KYIV — Donald Trump's deeply controversial rare minerals deal with Ukraine got an unexpected backer Monday — former U.K. Prime Minister Boris Johnson.
...
The deal — openly criticized by Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy amid a sharp downturn in United States-Ukraine relations — involves the U.S. gaining preferential access to hundreds of billions of dollars worth of Ukraine's critical minerals.

The Trump administration had demanded that access as payback for already-provided aid for Ukraine's fightback against Russia, and has publicly declined to offer clear security guarantees or prospects of future aid for Kyiv in return.

But signing it is, Johnson argued, the only way to move forward. His comments came amid signs Ukraine itself is now moving closer to an agreement with the U.S.
...
He added: "I understand how troubling it is to think that this deal might be rapacious for your country. But I really think that we need to move through this phase, recognize what this deal really is."

Ahh agent Boris is doing what he does the best, don't negotiate, sell your land and then go into economical enslavement for few generations. Now Ukrainian history needs to be rewritten to mention the dark times and how terrible Ukrainians lived on the land they owned back in 2013 but now they should be grateful for this opportunity for such a "deal"

[BADecker]

Remember November 21 last year. One Oreshnik did damage in Dnipro without even having any explosives aboard. Are you ready for war... REAL war?

[Branko]

Sure... drones are not doing anything. This is one hour of uninterrupted footage of Ukrainian drones intercepting Ruzzian drones...

Russian drones can do way more...about 20 000 videos posted here are proof:

https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/t/the-war-in-the-ukraine.8948/

[paxmao]

How it started

5 May 2022
[...]

4 Sep 2024
[...]
...

And now...
[...]


Ahh agent Boris is doing what he does the best, don't negotiate, sell your land and then go into economical enslavement for few generations. Now Ukrainian history needs to be rewritten to mention the dark times and how terrible Ukrainians lived on the land they owned back in 2013 but now they should be grateful for this opportunity for such a "deal"

How it started...

2014 - Ruzzia invades and annexes Crimea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_occupation_of_Crimea#:~:text=It%20annexed%20Crimea%20on%2018,which%20to%20attack%20mainland%20Ukraine.

I am sure you understand that 2014 is previous to 2022. Was not Boris Mayor of London at that time?

Just to put this into perspective.... Let's say that Ruzza takes some islands from Japan. Japan tries to establish an alliance with... let's say Australia. Then Ruzzia says that "it is a provocation" and invades Japan.

It is not a provocation, is purely self-defence.

I am still waiting for you to provide the list of international observers that validate the legitimacy of Putin as "elected" leader of Ruzzia.

~

^^^ The point seems to be this. Once martial law has been enacted, here is no way to assure that it will ever be repealed. What that means is that the country has lost its constitution, its name, and its identity... at least until the martial law leader removes martial law.

This makes the martial law leader into a quasi-dictator. Even though there are all kinds of protections written into the constitution to keep this from happening, martial law is essentially a suspension of the constitution until the leader voluntarily steps down and reinstates the constitution.

Zelensky-land... until or if he decides to change things back to the constitutional republic that Ukraine was.

This is FALSE INFORMATION: The parliament can end the law. Martial law and other reductions in rights are subject to conditions.

But who will the military listen to, especially if the martial law has been in existence for some time?

You have given false information in your last 3 or 4 posts. Now you say that martial law makes for dictatorship. It does not. Martial law finishes once there is a situation in which is not necessary. The army shall obey no "listen to" the elected civil authority.

[BADecker]

~

But who will the military listen to, especially if the martial law has been in existence for some time?

You have given false information in your last 3 or 4 posts. Now you say that martial law makes for dictatorship. It does not. Martial law finishes once there is a situation in which is not necessary. The army shall obey no "listen to" the elected civil authority.

"Arrest those councilmen. They are dissidents trying to bring down the Great State of Ukraine. If they come peaceably, we will try them later. If they or their security team resist, shoot to kill. We mean business. We will not let the Great Ukraine fall to weaklings."


Putin's ULTIMATUM to Satanic West: Extract Russia's natural resources OR ELSE!


https://edwardslavsquat.substack.com/p/putins-ultimatum-to-satanic-west
In a fiery speech marking three years since the start of Russia's Special Military Operation in Ukraine and Kursk, Russian President Vladimir Putin expressed hope that Moscow could "cooperate" with American companies to extract rare-earth metals in Russia and the "new territories" in East Ukraine:

[W]e would be ready to offer [cooperation] to our American partners – when I say partners, I mean not only administrative and government structures, but also companies – if they showed interest in working together.

We certainly have an order of magnitude – I want to emphasize this – an order of magnitude more resources of this kind than Ukraine. Russia is one of the undisputed leaders in reserves of these rare and rare-earth metals. We have them in in Murmansk in the North, in Kabardino-Balkaria in the Caucasus, in the Far East, in the Irkutsk region, and in Yakutia, in Tuva. These are quite capital-intensive investments, capital-intensive projects. We would be happy to work together with any foreign partners, including American ones.

Yes, by the way, regarding new territories, the same thing: we are ready to attract foreign partners, and our so-called new historical territories, which have returned to the Russian Federation, there are also certain reserves there. We are ready to work with our foreign partners, including the Americans, there.
...

[DaRude]

How it started

5 May 2022
[...]

4 Sep 2024
[...]
...

And now...
[...]


Ahh agent Boris is doing what he does the best, don't negotiate, sell your land and then go into economical enslavement for few generations. Now Ukrainian history needs to be rewritten to mention the dark times and how terrible Ukrainians lived on the land they owned back in 2013 but now they should be grateful for this opportunity for such a "deal"

How it started...

2014 - Ruzzia invades and annexes Crimea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_occupation_of_Crimea#:~:text=It%20annexed%20Crimea%20on%2018,which%20to%20attack%20mainland%20Ukraine.

I am sure you understand that 2014 is previous to 2022. Was not Boris Mayor of London at that time?

Just to put this into perspective.... Let's say that Ruzza takes some islands from Japan. Japan tries to establish an alliance with... let's say Australia. Then Ruzzia says that "it is a provocation" and invades Japan.

It is not a provocation, is purely self-defence.

I am still waiting for you to provide the list of international observers that validate the legitimacy of Putin as "elected" leader of Ruzzia.

...

Exactly, it all started in 2014, now what served as the catalyst that lead to all these deaths, Ukraine loosing land, and 50% mineral rights on its remaining land? And what role did US play back then, to now claim 50% ownership of Ukrainian critical rare minerals?

The Republican president has long complained that the United States has spent too much taxpayer money to support Ukraine in the war with Russia that began when the Kremlin invaded three years ago. Trump has framed the emerging deal that would give the U.S. access to Ukraine’s deposits of so-called rare earth minerals — used in the aerospace, defense and nuclear industries — as a chance for Kyiv to pay back the U.S. for aid already sent for the war effort under Democratic President Joe Biden.

“The previous administration put us in a very bad position, but we’ve been able to make a deal where we’re going to get the money back and and a lot of money in the future,” Trump said.

No guarantees on security, no mention of any future aid, and now Ukrainians have to pay back for aid that Biden already sent to Ukraine with their land. Wondering how many cookies could've been bought for every Ukrainian for $500B, and how many lives would've been saved had the Ukraine didn't accept those US freedom cookies during Maidan?

Instead of making something up for a perspective, why not just use an actual example from the history? US invades Cuba in the Invasion of Bay of Pigs, Cuba tries to establish an alliance with USSR, and then US makes multiple generations of Cubans pay for that, despite overwhelming majority of the globe voting against it.

I won't engage in your whataboutism on Putin.

[ManOftheWorld]

Ukrainians did not have time to blow up the Crimean bridge...

[BADecker]

Ukrainians did not have time to blow up the Crimean bridge...

They had plenty of time. They were simply scared that Putin might drop a few Oreshniks on them - Kiev - if they did something like that.

[Reynaldo]

 it's incredible how diplomatic Macron tries to be with United States. Always attempting the middle ground approach while getting nowhere. Meanwhile Zelensky is stuck in this impossible position having to beg for support while his country gets hammered.

What's even more fascinating is watching Trump basically shrug off the whole situation. The guy doesn't even pretend to care and seems perfectly fine aligning with Putin's interests. Lmao

[paxmao]

@dumBAss, look, your leader has left you alone defending shit...

https://youtu.be/p3klUel1mX4

Asked about calling Zelensky a "dictator" he said, literally "did I say that?"

How it started

5 May 2022
[...]

4 Sep 2024
[...]
...

And now...
[...]


Ahh agent Boris is doing what he does the best, don't negotiate, sell your land and then go into economical enslavement for few generations. Now Ukrainian history needs to be rewritten to mention the dark times and how terrible Ukrainians lived on the land they owned back in 2013 but now they should be grateful for this opportunity for such a "deal"

How it started...

2014 - Ruzzia invades and annexes Crimea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_occupation_of_Crimea#:~:text=It%20annexed%20Crimea%20on%2018,which%20to%20attack%20mainland%20Ukraine.

I am sure you understand that 2014 is previous to 2022. Was not Boris Mayor of London at that time?

Just to put this into perspective.... Let's say that Ruzza takes some islands from Japan. Japan tries to establish an alliance with... let's say Australia. Then Ruzzia says that "it is a provocation" and invades Japan.

It is not a provocation, is purely self-defence.

I am still waiting for you to provide the list of international observers that validate the legitimacy of Putin as "elected" leader of Ruzzia.

...

Exactly, it all started in 2014, now what served as the catalyst that lead to all these deaths, Ukraine loosing land, and 50% mineral rights on its remaining land? And what role did US play back then, to now claim 50% ownership of Ukrainian critical rare minerals?

[...]
I won't engage in your whataboutism on Putin.

However you did whattabout about Zelensky's legitimacy. Why not about Putin? I am not surprised to see that you have a double standard. It is to be expected when you are trying to make things look what they are not... like all the time, in every post.

Yes, it did not start with a visit of Boris, nor Nulland nor anyone else. It started with Ruzzia invading Crimea, which is opposite to everything you have said since the begining of this thread.


On this one about the money spent, one thing is Trump's narrative TODAY (changes nearly every minute). They US knows very well what they were doing: I put a negligible part of my PIB into something called the Ruzzo-Ukranian war, I suffer no US personel losses, I basically give Ukraine little material and in exchange I blast thorugh Ruzzia's reputation, more than half of their stocks of armour and war stocks (thousands of units) and send Ruzzia into an economic crisis. I call that a great, cheap deal. There is only one winner here.

And now Trump goes even further than that and get Europe to send troops and money to contain and keep Ruzzia wondering if Ukraine will attack and try to recover territory. Masterful.

Why all this....It has a name, it starts with "Chi" and ends with "na". If it goes to war, Ruzzia will not be able to help.

On the narratives, in fact, it changes so much that you are already giving old news:

The US-Ukraine deal will most likely end with a joint venture of the US in Ukraine. After all, what good is to have mineral and energy resources if you do not have money to build the infrastructure. It is a decent deal for both sides. Also, Trump mentioned that despite not being US troops, there will be US interests in Ukraine - if I were Putin, I would be very wary of interfering with that.

The Prime Minister of the UK meet today with the POTUS and, in a joint statement, it was clear that that the money invested in the Ukrainian war was mostly grants and it shall not be returned as credit. It would probably be impossible anyway.

About Ruzzia and its "gains", I am again not surprised you paint this as a victory. I do not mind, the truth is there for everyone to see.

it's incredible how diplomatic Macron tries to be with United States. Always attempting the middle ground approach while getting nowhere. Meanwhile Zelensky is stuck in this impossible position having to beg for support while his country gets hammered.

What's even more fascinating is watching Trump basically shrug off the whole situation. The guy doesn't even pretend to care and seems perfectly fine aligning with Putin's interests. Lmao

France has large economic ties with Ruzzia, like most of Europe to be frank. Europe never wanted this war.

Macron is one of the smartest leaders of Europe, albeit more pedantic than a Classic Humanities PhD. With Trump you just do not say what he does not want to hear.

[Branko]

The Prime Minister of the UK meet today with the POTUS and, in a joint statement, it was clear that that the money invested in the Ukrainian war was mostly grants and it shall not be returned as credit. It would probably be impossible anyway.

He just told Trump to be more polite and extort Ukrainian resources in more diplomatic manner, behind the ordinary Ukrainians back.
He's Rooinek, after all

[paxmao]

The Prime Minister of the UK meet today with the POTUS and, in a joint statement, it was clear that that the money invested in the Ukrainian war was mostly grants and it shall not be returned as credit. It would probably be impossible anyway.

He just told Trump to be more polite and extort Ukrainian resources in more diplomatic manner, behind the ordinary Ukrainians back.
He's Rooinek, after all

It is just too funny that you speak about "extorting" resources and defending a klepto-state such as Ruzzia.

But if that is your prespective and just to follow your argument... well... thanks to Putin for the opportunity, the US could have never done it without him going to war. Now... go to the "victory" celebrations.