How Satoshi Nakamoto Fooled the World

[Betwrong]

Bitcoin is the best asset in terms of market cap and return. People have made really good money with bitcoin. Bitcoin is based on blockchain which is the future of the internet and it is absolutely not a myth.

Bitcoin is not an asset, but a unit in a system that has zero assets to benefit the unit holders which is why they are forced to dump their worthless units to new investors like in all investment scams. And sure, scams can have huge market cap and return.

From what I read in this thread it looks like you invested in BTC all your money when it was around $70k, and then cashed out recently fearing it's going to zero. Well, you shouldn't have done both, imo. Also, coming here and telling people that Bitcoin has no value, telling it to the people who, no doubt, value BTC, it is called trolling, and this is probably the third thing you should not have done.

Overall, you look like someone, when cars were invented, saying, this metal garbage will never replace good ol' horses.

So, you've ignored the OP, and instead, created fantasies about the author.  How's that not trolling?

Why? No! Why do you say so? I read the OP, and I even read the replies and your replies to those replies, not all of them, but a fair part. It's just, there is nothing new in the OP for many of us on this forum. You can't imagine how many times we've read that Bitcoin's a scam, a financial pyramid etc, especially in the times like this, during a bear market. But they are always flawed, those theories. For example, you are saying, "People are able to benefit from it(BTC) only by selling its units to new investors." This is not true. Take crypto gambling sites, a part of a multi billion gambling industry. Do the owners benefit only from selling Bitcoin to new investors? Or, when people use BTC for international payments with low fees, doesn't it run counter to your statement that "bitcoin ssystem ... provides zero services" ?

[1714671630]

1714671630

[1714671630]

1714671630

[1714671630]

1714671630

[1714671630]

1714671630

[1714671630]

1714671630

[1714671630]

1714671630

[tadamichi]

Its tiring to run in circles Snowshow, so lemme explain what you didnt get yet.

1. What’s money?

- A good that enables a system of indirect trade(contrary to a barter system)
- Has 3 main properties ->
   1. Ability to hold value over time(Store of Value)
   2. Ability to be easily sent and accepted over large distances(Medium of Exchange)
   3. Ability to be easily grouped and divided(Unit of Account)

2. How are these properties achieved?

- A Store of value needs
   -> 1. Scarcity(Supply relative to other goods)
                              
Bitcoin(21 million limit), Fiat(unlimited and rising), Gold(Scarce, but not limited)

   -> 2. Durability(No loss in functionality with repeated use)

Bitcoin(digital, so durable), Fiat(mostly digital now, but less durable), Gold(was the most durable once, could still be considered the most durable depending on the pov)

- A Medium of Exchange needs
   -> 1. Acceptability(Used and accepted by others)

Bitcoin(still low), Fiat(highest), Gold(high, but not everywhere)

   -> 2. Portability(Easily moveable across distances)

Bitcoin(extremly easy and fast, can move faster than the person itself, least costly solution for high amounts today), Fiat(Bills need to be transported manually(also dangerous), banking system takes a long time over large distances, need to be converted into different currencies), Gold(terribly hard, expensive and dangerous)

- A Unit of Account needs
   -> 1. Divisibility(Easily dividable into smaller units)

Bitcoin(Easy, 8 decimal places), Fiat(also good), Gold(terrible, needs a lot of work)

   -> 2. Fungibility(1 unit is the same as the other)

Bictoin(All units are the same, altough some people argue that the history of coins can affect its desirability for others, cant be counterfeited), Fiat(Bills are the same, but higher ones arent accepted everywhere, can be counterfeited, less relevant for digital fiat), Gold(theres different coins with different desirabilities, also its not easy to verify real gold for everyone)

Now what does only Bitcoin have -> Immutability(transaction finality).

3. What speaks for Bitcoin as money?

- Its superior in all properties listed above, except acceptability. If you think a potential money with superior propierties can gain acceptance over time, then its smart to invest in it, but know the risks.
- Greshams law(check it out yourself)
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Greshams-law

Theres for sure more to say, but this is enough for now. When you can debunk these points we can go on further.

[Betwrong]

Its tiring to run in circles Snowshow, so lemme explain what you didnt get yet.

1. What’s money?

- A good that enables a system of indirect trade(contrary to a barter system)
- Has 3 main properties ->
   1. Ability to hold value over time(Store of Value)
   2. Ability to be easily sent and accepted over large distances(Medium of Exchange)
   3. Ability to be easily grouped and divided(Unit of Account)

2. How are these properties achieved?

- A Store of value needs
   -> 1. Scarcity(Supply relative to other goods)
                              
Bitcoin(21 million limit), Fiat(unlimited and rising), Gold(Scarce, but not limited)

   -> 2. Durability(No loss in functionality with repeated use)

Bitcoin(digital, so durable), Fiat(mostly digital now, but less durable), Gold(was the most durable once, could still be considered the most durable depending on the pov)

- A Medium of Exchange needs
   -> 1. Acceptability(Used and accepted by others)

Bitcoin(still low), Fiat(highest), Gold(high, but not everywhere)

   -> 2. Portability(Easily moveable across distances)

Bitcoin(extremly easy and fast, can move faster than the person itself, least costly solution for high amounts today), Fiat(Bills need to be transported manually(also dangerous), banking system takes a long time over large distances, need to be converted into different currencies), Gold(terribly hard, expensive and dangerous)

- A Unit of Account needs
   -> 1. Divisibility(Easily dividable into smaller units)

Bitcoin(Easy, 8 decimal places), Fiat(also good), Gold(terrible, needs a lot of work)

   -> 2. Fungibility(1 unit is the same as the other)

Bictoin(All units are the same, altough some people argue that the history of coins can affect its desirability for others, cant be counterfeited), Fiat(Bills are the same, but higher ones arent accepted everywhere, can be counterfeited, less relevant for digital fiat), Gold(theres different coins with different desirabilities, also its not easy to verify real gold for everyone)

Now what does only Bitcoin have -> Immutability(transaction finality).

3. What speaks for Bitcoin as money?

- Its superior in all properties listed above, except acceptability. If you think a potential money with superior propierties can gain acceptance over time, then its smart to invest in it, but know the risks.
- Greshams law(check it out yourself)
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Greshams-law

Theres for sure more to say, but this is enough for now. When you can debunk these points we can go on further.

This is a great text, mate! At first I couldn't believe it wasn't plagiarised, so I checked it, and it's 100% unique!



Well, I'll say it agian, imo it's an amazing text. It's simple and yet informative. I can't imagine a better way to explain someone that BTC is not only money, but it is better money than fiat and gold.

Thank you for taking effort to write it.

[Snowshow]

Bitcoin is the best asset in terms of market cap and return. People have made really good money with bitcoin. Bitcoin is based on blockchain which is the future of the internet and it is absolutely not a myth.

Bitcoin is not an asset, but a unit in a system that has zero assets to benefit the unit holders which is why they are forced to dump their worthless units to new investors like in all investment scams. And sure, scams can have huge market cap and return.

From what I read in this thread it looks like you invested in BTC all your money when it was around $70k, and then cashed out recently fearing it's going to zero. Well, you shouldn't have done both, imo. Also, coming here and telling people that Bitcoin has no value, telling it to the people who, no doubt, value BTC, it is called trolling, and this is probably the third thing you should not have done.

Overall, you look like someone, when cars were invented, saying, this metal garbage will never replace good ol' horses.

So, you've ignored the OP, and instead, created fantasies about the author.  How's that not trolling?

Why? No! Why do you say so? I read the OP, and I even read the replies and your replies to those replies, not all of them, but a fair part. It's just, there is nothing new in the OP for many of us on this forum. You can't imagine how many times we've read that Bitcoin's a scam, a financial pyramid etc, especially in the times like this, during a bear market. But they are always flawed, those theories. For example, you are saying, "People are able to benefit from it(BTC) only by selling its units to new investors." This is not true. Take crypto gambling sites, a part of a multi billion gambling industry. Do the owners benefit only from selling Bitcoin to new investors? Or, when people use BTC for international payments with low fees, doesn't it run counter to your statement that "bitcoin ssystem ... provides zero services" ?

Literally all current holders of BTC units need someone from the outside of the bitcoin system to bring the value in because no value exists in the system to benefit the holders. You can write whatever you want, but this fact won't change. System's units are completely worthless. And that's why the holders must talk positive about the system and its units. Only in that way they are able to scam the outsiders to bring in the value in the exchange for the worthless units. You're the participants of a digital ponzi. Nothing less and nothing more.

[Snowshow]

Its tiring to run in circles Snowshow, so lemme explain what you didnt get yet.

1. What’s money?

- A good that enables a system of indirect trade(contrary to a barter system)
- Has 3 main properties ->
   1. Ability to hold value over time(Store of Value)
   2. Ability to be easily sent and accepted over large distances(Medium of Exchange)
   3. Ability to be easily grouped and divided(Unit of Account)

2. How are these properties achieved?

- A Store of value needs
   -> 1. Scarcity(Supply relative to other goods)
                              
Bitcoin(21 million limit), Fiat(unlimited and rising), Gold(Scarce, but not limited)

   -> 2. Durability(No loss in functionality with repeated use)

Bitcoin(digital, so durable), Fiat(mostly digital now, but less durable), Gold(was the most durable once, could still be considered the most durable depending on the pov)

- A Medium of Exchange needs
   -> 1. Acceptability(Used and accepted by others)

Bitcoin(still low), Fiat(highest), Gold(high, but not everywhere)

   -> 2. Portability(Easily moveable across distances)

Bitcoin(extremly easy and fast, can move faster than the person itself, least costly solution for high amounts today), Fiat(Bills need to be transported manually(also dangerous), banking system takes a long time over large distances, need to be converted into different currencies), Gold(terribly hard, expensive and dangerous)

- A Unit of Account needs
   -> 1. Divisibility(Easily dividable into smaller units)

Bitcoin(Easy, 8 decimal places), Fiat(also good), Gold(terrible, needs a lot of work)

   -> 2. Fungibility(1 unit is the same as the other)

Bictoin(All units are the same, altough some people argue that the history of coins can affect its desirability for others, cant be counterfeited), Fiat(Bills are the same, but higher ones arent accepted everywhere, can be counterfeited, less relevant for digital fiat), Gold(theres different coins with different desirabilities, also its not easy to verify real gold for everyone)

Now what does only Bitcoin have -> Immutability(transaction finality).

3. What speaks for Bitcoin as money?

- Its superior in all properties listed above, except acceptability. If you think a potential money with superior propierties can gain acceptance over time, then its smart to invest in it, but know the risks.
- Greshams law(check it out yourself)
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Greshams-law

Theres for sure more to say, but this is enough for now. When you can debunk these points we can go on further.

This is a great text, mate! At first I couldn't believe it wasn't plagiarised, so I checked it, and it's 100% unique!



Well, I'll say it agian, imo it's an amazing text. It's simple and yet informative. I can't imagine a better way to explain someone that BTC is not only money, but it is better money than fiat and gold.

Thank you for taking effort to write it.

Bravo! That's the way guys. That's how the ponzi units called BTC are presented to the public to scam people to join the ponzi so that current victims could get out of it.

[JayJuanGee]

[edited out]

This is a great text, mate! At first I couldn't believe it wasn't plagiarised, so I checked it, and it's 100% unique!



Well, I'll say it agian, imo it's an amazing text. It's simple and yet informative. I can't imagine a better way to explain someone that BTC is not only money, but it is better money than fiat and gold.

Thank you for taking effort to write it.

Wow... I did not realize that there were places that would give percentages.... and I suppose that comes in handy.. especially for teachers... 

We may get something out of this thread.. because certainly Snowshow is not providing any value.. beyond perhaps a wee bit of comedy relief here and there...

Do you have a link for the plagiarizing check site?

Is it free?

[Hamza2424]

Do you have a link for the plagiarizing check site?

Is it free?

Free Ones sucks 😔, It shows always 100% unique even if it is not unique but some of them are 70% Stable like they Detect the possible Palgrism if content is Public on any other Location.

[tadamichi]

This is a great text, mate! At first I couldn't believe it wasn't plagiarised, so I checked it, and it's 100% unique!



Well, I'll say it agian, imo it's an amazing text. It's simple and yet informative. I can't imagine a better way to explain someone that BTC is not only money, but it is better money than fiat and gold.

Thank you for taking effort to write it.

Hahahahhah thanks man, plagiarism would be boring, but what i did isn’t rocket science. It’s just taking basic economic properties of money and then evaluating them yourself. This is already an established model in economics.

You can check it out anywhere yourself, if you search for the properties of money. What’s more interesting is how money comes into existence and how different forms of money compete with each other, that’s what im currently researching, i might make a thread that goes in deep about how an individual can evaluate all this.

[Snowshow]

We may get something out of this thread.. because certainly Snowshow is not providing any value.. beyond perhaps a wee bit of comedy relief here and there...

I am providing facts, you're providing propaganda. Facts are simple. In the bitcoin system value is neither stored nor transfered. What is stored and transfered is the info about how many ponzi units people have or had have. Value is brought from the outside and traded for those ponzi units. Given that in the ponzi system no value exists, all current holders of unis are doomed if nobody brings in the value. Unfortunately, all you blind believes will learn the above facts the hard way.

[tadamichi]

In the bitcoin system value is neither stored nor transfered.

Explain this cuz it doesn’t make sense. What value is transferred or stored into gold? I already explained you what properties a store of value must have. You don’t understand how the world works. Gold is not a bank account that stores usd, and neither is bitcoin. They’re things in itself with fluctuating supply and demands from the outside. Their properties influence how much value the market assigns to it.

What is stored and transfered is the info about how many ponzi units people have or had have.

So value is transferred and stored, your personal emotions towards something you don’t value, don’t determine free market exchange rates. Ik it’s hard to make emotional people accept this.

Value is brought from the outside and traded for those ponzi units.

Nah, Bitcoin itself is the valuable thing, that people are exchanging other things for (money, services, goods etc.). Supply and demand vary for an asset with low degree of adoption, it’s something expected. The Bitcoins you hold yourself don’t fluctuate, just the price people are willing to pay, at this particular moment in time, aka exchange rate.

Given that in the ponzi system no value exists, all current holders of unis are doomed if nobody brings in the value.

If there’s no demand for something(no matter if gold, fiat or bitcoin) then the exchange rate will be low in a free market. Let’s see if you’re mentally capable to understand this. Then explain why Bitcoin would reach a state of 0 demand, waiting.

Bitcoin won’t collapse if no new people come in, it can be used as a unit of account already. I could do trades without ever needing an exchange rate. If me and jay for example wanted to set up a trade, we would never need to touch a dollar, if we so choose to. We can determine the trade individually or let the market decide. It is not a ponzi that collapses without new investors. The only thing that happens without new investors is that maybe some individual expectations get crushed, because it won’t rise forever. But it still works as money, regardless of the exchange rate or new investors.

The better question you should ask yourself is, how money comes into existence organically, and once you understand this, it makes your ponzi assumptions look ridiculous.

Unfortunately, all you blind believes will learn the above facts the hard way.

Prime example of the Dunning–Kruger effect.

[Snowshow]

In the bitcoin system value is neither stored nor transfered.

Explain this cuz it doesn’t make sense. What value is transferred or stored into gold? I already explained you what properties a store of value must have. You don’t understand how the world works. Gold is not a bank account that stores usd, and neither is bitcoin. They’re things in itself with fluctuating supply and demands from the outside. Their properties influence how much value the market assigns to it.

What is stored and transfered is the info about how many ponzi units people have or had have.

So value is transferred and stored, your personal emotions towards something you don’t value, don’t determine free market exchange rates. Ik it’s hard to make emotional people accept this.

Value is brought from the outside and traded for those ponzi units.

Nah, Bitcoin itself is the valuable thing, that people are exchanging other things for (money, services, goods etc.). Supply and demand vary for an asset with low degree of adoption, it’s something expected. The Bitcoins you hold yourself don’t fluctuate, just the price people are willing to pay, at this particular moment in time, aka exchange rate.

Given that in the ponzi system no value exists, all current holders of unis are doomed if nobody brings in the value.

If there’s no demand for something(no matter if gold, fiat or bitcoin) then the exchange rate will be low in a free market. Let’s see if you’re mentally capable to understand this. Then explain why Bitcoin would reach a state of 0 demand, waiting.

Bitcoin won’t collapse if no new people come in, it can be used as a unit of account already. I could do trades without ever needing an exchange rate. If me and jay for example wanted to set up a trade, we would never need to touch a dollar, if we so choose to. We can determine the trade individually or let the market decide. It is not a ponzi that collapses without new investors. The only thing that happens without new investors is that maybe some individual expectations get crushed, because it won’t rise forever. But it still works as money, regardless of the exchange rate or new investors.

The better question you should ask yourself is, how money comes into existence organically, and once you understand this, it makes your ponzi assumptions look ridiculous.

Unfortunately, all you blind believes will learn the above facts the hard way.

Prime example of the Dunning–Kruger effect.

Everything is explained in the OP . Value of X is how people are able benefit from X without selling the X to new investors. Btw, money is value.

From btc units no one is able to benefit, and people must dump them to new investors. Hence, bitcoin is not money, but a classical ponzi in an online form splitted into 21x8 million units. Of course, you could split the ponzi into trillion units, nothing would change given no value exists in the system. If you split nothing into 10 or 10 trillion units you still have nothing. Like I sad, you will learn these facts the hard way.

[dohh]

To conclude. All that positive talk about crypto, that you read or hear on social and legacy media, is just a false narrative. And it has one purpose, and one purpose only: to lure new victims into the crypto systems, so that their creators, or existing investors, can run out of them, and make as much profit as possible. Of course, crypto systems are very profitable for the brokers, who earn on commissions, governments, who collect taxes, and others who sell materials related to crypto industry. None of them don’t really care whether the crypto units are worthless, nor are motivated to talk negative about crypto. But ultimately, the holders of those worthless units will be left holding the bag. All the others will move on to another profit hunting ground.

Source: https://ustbtc.wordpress.com/

You are correct, but this is so wrong audience. These people don´t want to hear it. This forum is the place where BTC white paper was released. Their Bible.

Some of them don´t want to listen to this. They want you to show how there is still a hope that they get their hard-earned FIAT back.

But, most of them... already know all of this. This is where they produce legends, news, and "information" about BTC. They know very well, that their money comes from simple-minded and they are OK with it. And you will see, that the vast majority will get away with no penalty from this scam. I´d say, it's the most ingenious scheme of all time.

[Ebede]

Its tiring to run in circles Snowshow, so lemme explain what you didnt get yet.

1. What’s money?

- A good that enables a system of indirect trade(contrary to a barter system)
- Has 3 main properties ->
   1. Ability to hold value over time(Store of Value)
   2. Ability to be easily sent and accepted over large distances(Medium of Exchange)
   3. Ability to be easily grouped and divided(Unit of Account)

2. How are these properties achieved?

- A Store of value needs
   -> 1. Scarcity(Supply relative to other goods)
                              
Bitcoin(21 million limit), Fiat(unlimited and rising), Gold(Scarce, but not limited)

   -> 2. Durability(No loss in functionality with repeated use)

Bitcoin(digital, so durable), Fiat(mostly digital now, but less durable), Gold(was the most durable once, could still be considered the most durable depending on the pov)

- A Medium of Exchange needs
   -> 1. Acceptability(Used and accepted by others)

Bitcoin(still low), Fiat(highest), Gold(high, but not everywhere)

   -> 2. Portability(Easily moveable across distances)

Bitcoin(extremly easy and fast, can move faster than the person itself, least costly solution for high amounts today), Fiat(Bills need to be transported manually(also dangerous), banking system takes a long time over large distances, need to be converted into different currencies), Gold(terribly hard, expensive and dangerous)

- A Unit of Account needs
   -> 1. Divisibility(Easily dividable into smaller units)

Bitcoin(Easy, 8 decimal places), Fiat(also good), Gold(terrible, needs a lot of work)

   -> 2. Fungibility(1 unit is the same as the other)

Bictoin(All units are the same, altough some people argue that the history of coins can affect its desirability for others, cant be counterfeited), Fiat(Bills are the same, but higher ones arent accepted everywhere, can be counterfeited, less relevant for digital fiat), Gold(theres different coins with different desirabilities, also its not easy to verify real gold for everyone)

Now what does only Bitcoin have -> Immutability(transaction finality).

3. What speaks for Bitcoin as money?

- Its superior in all properties listed above, except acceptability. If you think a potential money with superior propierties can gain acceptance over time, then its smart to invest in it, but know the risks.
- Greshams law(check it out yourself)
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Greshams-law

Theres for sure more to say, but this is enough for now. When you can debunk these points we can go on further.

This is a great text, mate! At first I couldn't believe it wasn't plagiarised, so I checked it, and it's 100% unique!



Well, I'll say it agian, imo it's an amazing text. It's simple and yet informative. I can't imagine a better way to explain someone that BTC is not only money, but it is better money than fiat and gold.

Thank you for taking effort to write it.

i will disagree with you because can not say thing like that and if you want to convince us that bitcoin is better than fiat currency you can put them mostly the differences in a tabular form  some that people will know why you said bitcoin is better than fiat currency, what i need is point and i can agree with you, but for now fiat is on it own and bitcoin is for it own the comparison will much and the similarity will be same

[sklopan]

What's the point of checking bitcoin on a scam? I don't think it makes any sense, just a waste of time. For many of us have already made sure more than once that it is rather difficult to name bitcoin as a race.

[Snowshow]

To conclude. All that positive talk about crypto, that you read or hear on social and legacy media, is just a false narrative. And it has one purpose, and one purpose only: to lure new victims into the crypto systems, so that their creators, or existing investors, can run out of them, and make as much profit as possible. Of course, crypto systems are very profitable for the brokers, who earn on commissions, governments, who collect taxes, and others who sell materials related to crypto industry. None of them don’t really care whether the crypto units are worthless, nor are motivated to talk negative about crypto. But ultimately, the holders of those worthless units will be left holding the bag. All the others will move on to another profit hunting ground.

Source: https://ustbtc.wordpress.com/

You are correct, but this is so wrong audience. These people don´t want to hear it. This forum is the place where BTC white paper was released. Their Bible.

Some of them don´t want to listen to this. They want you to show how there is still a hope that they get their hard-earned FIAT back.

But, most of them... already know all of this. This is where they produce legends, news, and "information" about BTC. They know very well, that their money comes from simple-minded and they are OK with it. And you will see, that the vast majority will get away with no penalty from this scam. I´d say, it's the most ingenious scheme of all time.

I kinda know that. But for me it's simply an intellectual challenge to engage in refuting of their myths and legends. And I think that they genuinely believe that their scam or ponzi units are money, so I have to educate them that money is an economic resource and not a unit in a scheme where economic resources must be brought from the outside of the scheme in order for people to return their investment of economic resources.

[tadamichi]

Value of X is how people are able benefit from X without selling the X to new investors.

This definition is wrong tho and wouldn’t be accepted anywhere. You can use it for yourself it’s fine, but in a debate it’s ridiculous. If you’re so sure about it, then go ahead and write an academic paper about it and see it being eaten alive by peer review.

You are correct, but this is so wrong audience. These people don´t want to hear it. This forum is the place where BTC white paper was released. Their Bible.

You’ll see more people here engage in critical thinking and constructive discussion(even with idiots) than in most places. And also the whitepaper wasn’t released here, but nice try.

Again im telling you, if you work as an analyst in a company, or in academia(in places that still do science), people won’t be as nice to y’all as here, if y’all produce bs like this.

Then you’re also mixing religion with a software whitepaper, which:

1. Is ridiculous.

2. Just shows you can’t compete with actual arguments.

3. Did you ever see someone claim it is their bible? I don’t think so, you’re just letting ur personal bias influence your judgment.

They want you to show how there is still a hope that they get their hard-earned FIAT back.

You mean everyone who held for longer than 4 years is in profit?

And notice how i never mentioned profit till now, because Bitcoin isn’t about this, even tho it’s a nice side effect of sound money in an artificial fiat world.

i will disagree with you because can not say thing like that and if you want to convince us that bitcoin is better than fiat currency you can put them mostly the differences in a tabular form  some that people will know why you said bitcoin is better than fiat currency, what i need is point and i can agree with you, but for now fiat is on it own and bitcoin is for it own the comparison will much and the similarity will be same

Everything i showed there is it’s own thing and coexists with each other. I even included Greshams law which takes this into account, if you’re too lazy to study then i cant help you. Also i compared the individual properties of gold, fiat and bitcoin with each other, a table won’t change what i wrote, but if you’re too lazy to read i cant help you. I didn’t say anything without an explanation behind it.

If you think anything in the comparison is wrong then point out what and we can discuss it. Otherwise it seems like you just don’t want to accept it, because it doesn’t fit your personal bias.

But for me it's simply an intellectual challenge to engage in refuting of their myths and legends.

I didn’t hear you say something intellectual yet and if you tried to refute something you failed hard.

[Snowshow]

Value of X is how people are able benefit from X without selling the X to new investors.

This definition is wrong tho and wouldn’t be accepted anywhere. You can use it for yourself it’s fine, but in a debate it’s ridiculous. If you’re so sure about it, then go ahead and write an academic paper about it and see it being eaten alive by peer review.

You cannot refute a definition by fantasizing that someone would not accept it. That's just presenting how powerless you are in a discussion.

And you're powerless because I am right. Bitcoin is not an economic resource and no human being can benefit from it. Products with intrinsic value are  economic resources because humans can consume that intrinsic value to satisfy their needs. Debt behind fiat money is an economic resource because people benefit when that debt is paid, as I have explained in the OP. Capital is an economic resources because in itself it is intrinsic value or it can be used to create products with intrinsic value. Intrinsic value is, as said before, used to satisfy human needs and in that way it benefits people.

There's no intrinsic value to consume after you buy bitcoin.  Also, you own no debt or capital after the purchase. Everyone who has ever bought bitcoins essentially bought the units in a system that has zero economic resources. That's why people must dump that system's worthless units to someone else. Which is essentially how all ponzi schemes operate. The bitcoin system is a ponzi scheme falsely publicly advertised as a payment system. And bitcoin is a unit in that ponzi scheme falsely advertised as money. Money is an economic resource, and not a unit in a scheme where people need resources of new investors to be able to benefit. The false advertising is how new victims are lured into the scheme. You're one of the victims of false advertising and you're using the same advertising to save yourself from the scheme, or to exist it with as much economic resources as possible.

[Betwrong]

~

Wow... I did not realize that there were places that would give percentages.... and I suppose that comes in handy.. especially for teachers... 

We may get something out of this thread.. because certainly Snowshow is not providing any value.. beyond perhaps a wee bit of comedy relief here and there...

Do you have a link for the plagiarizing check site?

Is it free?

Here's the link

https://plagiarismdetector.net/

Yes, it's free, and no, it not always shows 100% unique, like Hamza2424 said.

Here's an example



I just copied and pasted an extract from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin.

~

Hahahahhah thanks man, plagiarism would be boring, but what i did isn’t rocket science. It’s just taking basic economic properties of money and then evaluating them yourself. This is already an established model in economics.

You can check it out anywhere yourself, if you search for the properties of money. What’s more interesting is how money comes into existence and how different forms of money compete with each other, that’s what im currently researching, i might make a thread that goes in deep about how an individual can evaluate all this.

Isn't a rocket science, and, yeah, one can find that info in many places, but what I meant was the simplicity of your explanation. There's a popular saying among scientists: "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." You've passed the test.

[tadamichi]

You cannot refute a definition by fantasizing that someone would not accept it. That's just presenting how powerless you are in a discussion.

I refuted the definition, because you weren’t articulating yourself clearly, you didn’t even mention the word intrinsic value once till now(intrinsic value ≠ value). And nah i didnt fantasise about anything, this definition is still bad af for more serious use cases, even if you wanna use it for intrinsic value, but i won’t discuss this now, because it doesn’t matter.

If you wanna talk about intrinsic value, then it’s a different discussion. But finally you’re starting to articulate yourself more clearly, we can call this progress.

Bitcoin is not an economic resource

The problem is you’re trying to suggest something with this. Sure there’s forms of money like gold than can be used to produce goods. But for people who used gold as money, this is not the primary function.

Also like i said above, fungibility is important for any kind of money, small differences can already affect its desirability. So maybe it’s better in the first place, to not be able to make different things out of it, because amateurs won’t understand it and then shoot themselves in the foot. This is also be a point that could be made against nfts and tokens on a main layer.

Are we starting to evaluate the capability of footballers, by evaluating how well they can play basketball now too?

and no human being can benefit from it.

K let’s remember the state of the world in the last years, now let’s check out what Bitcoin did:

• Uniting a group of anti authoritarians worldwide(which is hard, because they’re usually individualists and completely different from each other).
• Challenging people to get deeper into computer science, economics, game theory and psychology.
• No need to trust a central authority.
• Self custody over money.
• Censorship resistance.
• Transaction finality.
• Sane monetary policy that won’t change in our lifetime.
• Hardest asset to confiscate.
• Tearing down economic gatekeeping(you can transact worldwide, or borderlessly recover your money, if you can remember 12/24 words(optionally a passphrase on top) or keep them safe).
• No need for permissions.
• Best long term perfoming asset in the last decade.
• Triggering morally bankrupt and emotional people.

The list goes on.

Im sure no human can get a benefit out of this, because making jewelry out of money is more important for the world right now.

Debt behind fiat money is an economic resource because people benefit when that debt is paid, as I have explained in the OP.

There’s an argument to be made, about how debt based money creation affects its durability. Because with each time you’re taking or giving a loan, you’re essentially making everyone else’s purchasing power go lower, on the big scale this is huge.

How durable is it to gain some additional economic capabilities individually in the short term, but then making the entire working population fall into the cantillon effect(more and more extreme concentration of wealth at the top).

So repeated use of Fiat actually affects it’s durability to be used as a store value, no matter how someone will phrase it, which makes it a weak form of money long term.
————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————

And now to put it simply, stop mixing economic resources and money, because it will do you more harm than good and just create confusion to yourself. In most cases money isn’t supposed to be used as an economic resource(to produce goods or services). It should facilitate trade, but not be an productive resource itself. The purest form of money isn’t to be used for anything else, like i outlined above, using money for different things can be counterproductive.

[hZti]

Maybe we can all remember this quote and end this nightmare of a thread:

If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.