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xyz
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March 22, 2013, 09:43:54 AM |
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You are missing the point though.. What they are doing is not a "solution" .. just are just opening a new business that has nothing to do with whatever happened at bitmarket.eu .. They just happen to employ the person that scammed everyone, and that person can use that salary to pay people back. No difference really that Maver getting a job a macdonalds to pay everyone, is there?
The original idea was the the were going to re-open the business, and use profits to pay back btc owed. That's not what they're doing.. As they stated, the new entity has nothing to do what whatever happened with any other website or scam, that's it.
That's just the reality. I'm not being pessimistic. I was hoping I was going to see something back from what I'm owed, which is not much, thankfully. But they already said that now they want nothing to do with it. So that's it.
First I thought too that bitmarket.eu should be taken over from the new owner... But I think it is simply not possible - because if they did, they have to take over ALL debts and no one knows whether they ever will be able to pay all debt out! this would be not a good basic for a new start - no one would give new money... And another thing what makes me very glad: Here a lot of people give a man (the old owner of bitmarket) the chance to recover his fault himself! It is great that not the law or the justice put him in prison or make him for lifetime a bad man (nobody has something from a man in prison or in despair) but let him be a man and do what he can to reimbursing as much as possible! I love the internet and I love the people who doing such things and I love bitcoins! We have the chance to change the world - a little bit ... Good luck for all of us! |
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Es sind die glücklichen Sklaven der Freiheit größter Feind...
(Heinrich Hoffmann von Fallersleben, 1798-1874)
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In order to get the maximum amount of activity points possible, you just need to post once per day on average. Skipping days is OK as long as you maintain the average.
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malevolent
can into space
Legendary
 Offline
Activity: 3472
Merit: 1721
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March 22, 2013, 01:22:50 PM |
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A typical job in a Polish McDonald's pays around 1.7€ per hour...
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Signature space available for rent.
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manfred
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Activity: 966
Merit: 1001
Energy is Wealth
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March 22, 2013, 03:35:41 PM |
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with so many different interests at stake no system will ever please everyone. the trouble with the current project is the number of participants. 6 , 10 or whatever the final number will be is just like any of the thousands other new startups, a far cry from a few hundred people wanting it to succeed and working for it. more than money and a code is required to grow fast and successful. to this day the best and fastest way to expend is by word of mouth (and most economical). it does make a different if 6 or 600 spread the word. investment does not only mean there is a bundle of money, lets go, customer satisfaction is important as is the reach of the broader mass. if average joe on the street with basic or no english can use the side and gets at least basic help in his native language then the user-base really can grow rapidly. it can be done in two ways paying a professional or have dedicated people with some spare time to respond in forums or on the web sides help section in Italian, French, Danish.......
with old bitmarket customers left standing in the rain there is no real incentive for anyone to do anything, so most will just wait for m4v3r to work of his debt. with users direct involvement its a different scenario, a link to the side here or there, a comment, story or mention in French, Spanish, Czech.... is done easy, if i know it benefits me directly and at no cost.
i can see “tacoexperience” point and also the new investors, can they marry in some form to maximum fulfil the enormous potential of Bi Talo?
On another note is there a time frame when to expect some satoshis back from bitcoinica?
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M4v3R
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March 22, 2013, 07:27:28 PM
Last edit: March 22, 2013, 10:40:56 PM by M4v3R |
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@manfred: Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I too think that for success the service not only needs money, but real people that will work for its success. I know I will, and from meeting the investors in person I was assured that they are also very dedicated. Finally, when the service is ready, I hope that people people with frozen funds will also help by just using the site and sharing their suggestions, because its if the site succeeds, everyone gets a great service for them to use, and creditors will get their funds back.
Unfortunately the Bitcoinica liquidators are silent. I contacted them some time ago and just got the "we don't have any more information at this time" response. When I get any information from them I will definitely share it here.
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disclaimer201
Legendary
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Activity: 1526
Merit: 1001
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March 23, 2013, 04:27:11 AM |
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I already posted in the other thread that we need to attack MtGox holding our coins and most likely working with our coins, while not answering to the liquidators. This is crap, and I really don't know how they can get away with it, above all the other shit they have made a name for (tainting coins, freezing accounts, and only claiming to laws and restrictions whenever it fits their own purposes.
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eiskalt
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March 24, 2013, 03:08:42 PM |
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(...) For handling frozen coins and repaying the debts, Bitmarket.eu website will be used. This week the site will be reopened with trading functions removed (...)
@vv01f: Thanks. The FAQ will be placed on Bitmarket.eu site when it's reopened. I hope in this week.
Seems to me, like reopening the site this week is just another broken promise in the chain of broken promises. I would not be surprised, if it remains closed forever, following an announcement, that reads something like this: "Dear users, I have again very bad news for you. Somehow (by an unknown virus, another hack, or a stupid mistake) the user-database was destroyed completely and all user-data from bitmarket.eu is now lost. I am very sorry, but from now on you will have to provide us with explicit evidence, what exact amount of bitcoins you were holding at our site, in order for us to proceed with the repayment plan. So please do not post angry comments, because I am sooo sorry..." But of course you are free to prove me wrong. BTW I submitted my application to eurid.eu. |
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M4v3R
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March 24, 2013, 05:45:08 PM |
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(...) For handling frozen coins and repaying the debts, Bitmarket.eu website will be used. This week the site will be reopened with trading functions removed (...)
@vv01f: Thanks. The FAQ will be placed on Bitmarket.eu site when it's reopened. I hope in this week.
Seems to me, like reopening the site this week is just another broken promise in the chain of broken promises. I would not be surprised, if it remains closed forever, following an announcement, that reads something like this: Note that all of us have day jobs so most work can be done on evenings and on weekends. The site is ready to be reopened. I only have to check it with the new investors, and it will be launched. So yes, I'll prove you wrong so you can see that I'm serious about the promises I made before. |
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paraipan
In memoriam
Legendary
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Activity: 924
Merit: 1004
Firstbits: 1pirata
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March 24, 2013, 05:51:25 PM |
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...
The site is ready to be reopened. I only have to check it with the new investors, and it will be launched. So yes, I'll prove you wrong so you can see that I'm serious about the promises I made before.
Good luck, and hope you finally straighten your decision track record and reputation. |
BTCitcoin: An Idea Worth Saving - Q&A with bitcoins on rugatu.com - Check my rep
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M4v3R
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March 24, 2013, 06:42:49 PM |
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Good luck, and hope you finally straighten your decision track record and reputation.
Thanks, I hope this as well and will work hard to make it happen. Update: the site is now online |
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ijme1989
Newbie
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March 24, 2013, 08:02:12 PM |
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I'm not being pessimistic
Lol |
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Ted
Newbie
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Activity: 17
Merit: 0
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March 25, 2013, 08:47:17 PM |
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I paid 10.85 EUR for my coins 2012-12-12 and tried to withdraw them om 2012-12-13. This should be the pinned value of my lost coins.
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1CHBhqws
Newbie
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Activity: 11
Merit: 0
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March 26, 2013, 11:17:32 PM |
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I note that in the meantime, further bitcoins appear to have been "stolen" ... this transaction from just 4 days ago spends 22BTC, of which at least part I can confirm belonged to addresses within the bitmarket.eu wallet: https://blockchain.info/tx/ead9566d9be7cdee9eaede4b104375550ea4bd0fb82527a81aca697843997e04Hopefully this was just the admin moving them somewhere safer in order to distribute equitably amongst all debtors...? |
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M4v3R
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March 27, 2013, 07:35:22 AM |
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Hopefully this was just the admin moving them somewhere safer in order to distribute equitably amongst all debtors...?
That's exactly the case. These were "leftovers" from the hack. |
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1CHBhqws
Newbie
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Activity: 11
Merit: 0
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March 27, 2013, 10:12:43 PM |
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That's exactly the case. These were "leftovers" from the hack.
The current balance on the site is 54 BTC, and user account balances is exactly 659.13716811 BTC. So there's about 600 BTC missing...
... so if 22 BTC was transferred somewhere safer in the transaction I linked in my last post, where are the other 32? Why not sweep ALL the remaining coins in the wallet rather than just taking 22 BTC out and leaving at least 0.01 of change (and any other unspent coins still in the wallet)? Looking a little further I see that the bitmarket.eu wallet had another 29.8 bitcoins taken out of it on 1 March, which unless I missed something was 2 weeks after the last disclosed loss: https://blockchain.info/tx/a84ae93f7317a69f6916863f831c5a9e6ee00a0ef91fd3b219dbff0069b12f9e(the "change" from this transaction was spent in the transaction I linked above). I don't see any mention of something that would have resulted in a legitimate transaction at that time. Was THAT a further theft? Is there something else you've been trying to hide, or hoped nobody would notice? |
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cyberaa
Newbie
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Activity: 57
Merit: 0
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March 27, 2013, 11:43:41 PM |
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I have a question .. i have voted for having my shares on the new website ... but it was announced already and you didnt contact me yet ... will i still have shares of the new website or should i withraw the money i have left on older site?
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mralbi
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March 27, 2013, 11:51:43 PM |
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As already explained earlier in this thread, unfortunately it is NOT possible to put "frozen coins" as shares into the new company. This is not possible under the german Aktiengesetz and in our (public) meeting in Helsinki we decided to separate the new enterprise completely from the old debts.
However, we would pay Maciej a decend salary so he can pay back his debts as quickly as possible. Have now have acquired a good starting capital and a highly motivated team and we will try our best to make the new site successful.
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M4v3R
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March 28, 2013, 07:18:40 AM |
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1CHBhqws: There were few people that deposited money to the site AFTER the hack of feb 14th. Since I had their exact coins in wallet I gave them back to these people when they asked for it. Since this had nothing to do with hacked/on hold coins I didn't feel that it was necessary to communicate that. Sorry if I caused some confusion by this.
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pazor
Legendary
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Activity: 966
Merit: 1000
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March 28, 2013, 07:48:11 AM |
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1CHBhqws: There were few people that deposited money to the site AFTER the hack of feb 14th. Since I had their exact coins in wallet I gave them back to these people when they asked for it. Since this had nothing to do with hacked/on hold coins I didn't feel that it was necessary to communicate that. Sorry if I caused some confusion by this.
i had exactly 2.008 btc then (id: pagezo) Balance before 21.12.2012: 0 BTC Balance after 21.12.2012: 2.008 BTC Total balance: 2.008 BTC and now ? |
treuhand-Dienst gewünscht? - frag per PM an
BTC 174X17nR7vEQBQo4GXKRGMGaTmB49Gf1yT
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eiskalt
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March 28, 2013, 08:54:52 AM |
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We should not forget, that when talking about bitmarket.eu and m4v3r in person, we are still also talking about the following acts, which can be considered criminal:
-misuse of user`s funds
-theft
-running a business without registering
-delaying bankruptcy/insolvency
Two days ago eurid.eu disclosed the requested address to me. So someone may prepare to answer some questions at his local police station quite soon.
@m4v3r: Constantly refering to how hard you work, does not bring you back any credibility, because millions of people also work hard (and even harder than you), without defrauding anybody.
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mralbi
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March 28, 2013, 09:12:32 AM |
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This is ridiculous.
He misused user funds for sure, but he did not STEAL them and did not lose them intentionally.
He did not run a business, as he never intended to make any profit with the site. He just provided a FREE private forum where users could exchange bitcoins peer 2 peer, he was not even involved in any money transactions at all. It was his hobby, a good contribution for the community (in the past) and for that it was a pretty good site, until this tragic loss of user funds happened for which he now undertakes every effort possible to recover the losses it caused for some users.
Also in the LEGAL sense he is NOT bankrupt, as he got the consent of his community to pay back his debts over time. In case you have a provable claim against him and you do not agree to our plan(s), just send the claim to him and i am sure he will pay you out your 30 euros in FIAT when you make some preassure with a good lawyer ;-)
The main creditors like me, makhul etc. which have LOT OF frozen coins do not demand any money back at this point in time. We prefer to use this opportunity to form a skilled team to open a new and better service within a proper company framework
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