Ukraine rejects Russia Gazprom gas price hike

[bryant.coleman]

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-26902522

Ukraine has rejected moves by Russia to almost double the price of Russian gas supplies to the country and threatened legal action. Ukraine's interim PM, Arseniy Yatsenyuk, said Moscow's hikes were a form of "economic aggression".

I don't know what the Ukraine PM was expecting after he threatened to nuke all the ethnic Russians living in Ukraine. 

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[Balthazar]

Oh yep... Economic aggression after they've received $21 million instead of $1 billion along with the words "we are sorry" in the description. It seems that Gazprom management decided that these apologies can't replace nearly $1 billion.

[connexus]

Obviously, Putin was genuine when he said that the sanctions against Russia's plan of action aren't risk free. And Ukraine is the first one to figure out that he meant what he said.

[john641]

Does Ukraine has any choice? It looks like Putin is holding the strings.

[Maharaja]

I don't know the true reasons why Russia takes this stance against Ukraine, but I feel truly sorry for the people living in Ukraine and are victim to the testosteron games being played.

[bryant.coleman]

Does Ukraine has any choice? It looks like Putin is holding the strings.

Yes. They can take all the gas and say that they don't have any money to pay for it. It is perfectly OK. Also, they have done it before.

[Nemo1024]

I don't know the true reasons why Russia takes this stance against Ukraine, but I feel truly sorry for the people living in Ukraine and are victim to the testosteron games being played.

Basically, Russia, or shall we say, partially private company Gazprom, increased the price to the market level, removing the subsidies, that Ukraine benefited from over the years, and additionally demand payment for the previously unpaid deliveries, as well as enforcing penalties for missed payments.
It's business as usual. Market economy.

For a parallel think that you have a friendly grocer, who's been selling you bread for $1 instead of the market price of $1.5 over a few year's time, but you always really paid only $0.8 saying that you'd pay the rest later. As the grocer sees you as a friend, he says, "sure, no problem". Then one day you have a terrible row and call him a dick. The grocer is offended and demands that from this day on you pay $1.5 as everybody else, and on top of it return everything that you owe him from the previous purchases. You flip completely and threaten to go to court demanding that the grocer still supplies your bread for $1 because "it's always been like that".
Oh, and you can buy bread from other grocers, but you'd have to drive a few miles for that and end up paying $2 to them.

Yes, Ukraine has a choice of buying gas from Europe and US at market price, plus the mark-up that Europeans might take for re-selling that gas.

And to complete the analogy, one of the reasons for the row was that the grocer found out that you bought so much bread was not to "feed the pigeons", as you always stated, but to sell it on to your neighbours for $1.1, undercutting the grocer's business.

[minime]

I don't know the true reasons why Russia takes this stance against Ukraine, but I feel truly sorry for the people living in Ukraine and are victim to the testosteron games being played.

Basically, Russia, or shall we say, partially private company Gazprom, increased the price to the market level, removing the subsidies, that Ukraine benefited from over the years, and additionally demand payment for the previously unpaid deliveries, as well as enforcing penalties for missed payments.
It's business as usual. Market economy.

For a parallel think that you have a friendly grocer, who's been selling you bread for $1 instead of the market price of $1.5 over a few year's time, but you always really paid only $0.8 saying that you'd pay the rest later. As the grocer sees you as a friend, he says, "sure, no problem". Then one day you have a terrible row and call him a dick. The grocer is offended and demands that from this day on you pay $1.5 as everybody else, and on top of it return everything that you owe him from the previous purchases. You flip completely and threaten to go to court demanding that the grocer still supplies your bread for $1 because "it's always been like that".
Oh, and you can buy bread from other grocers, but you'd have to drive a few miles for that and end up paying $2 to them.

Yes, Ukraine has a choice of buying gas from Europe and US at market price, plus the mark-up that Europeans might take for re-selling that gas.

And to complete the analogy, one of the reasons for the row was that the grocer found out that you bought so much bread was not to "feed the pigeons", as you always stated, but to sell it on to your neighbours for $1.1, undercutting the grocer's business.

what if prices for eu also rise by 30-80%?? than things would get interessting... i my view ua has no chance in rejecting this... its market economy... if they dont like the price they should buy somewhere else..

[niothor]

Does Ukraine has any choice? It looks like Putin is holding the strings.

The problem is , can they pay? Even if they want  , there is no way in hell they could come with that amount out of the blue.

[Balthazar]

minime

what if prices for eu also rise by 30-80%?? than things would get interessting... i my view ua has no chance in rejecting this... its market economy... if they dont like the price they should buy somewhere else..

What do you mean by "also"? Actually price is left unchanged, it's a real market price as it always was..  

Until the end of February a half of the market price for Ukraine was subsidized by the russian government, now this subsidy has been cancelled. So, Ukrainian side sees effective rise of price because they no longer receive  money to handle a half of the price.  

[Nemo1024]

what if prices for eu also rise by 30-80%?? than things would get interessting...

That would entirely depend on the extent of the sanctioned imposed on Russia. The harder Russia feels hit, the harder it'll need to compensate for the loss in other income.

As Merkel talks about "more sanctions", I read some funny comments on Russian forums by Russians along the lines of "would you impose those sanctions already? We are tired of the talking."

[niothor]

what if prices for eu also rise by 30-80%?? than things would get interessting...

That would entirely depend on the extent of the sanctioned imposed on Russia. The harder Russia feels hit, the harder it'll need to compensate for the loss in other income.

As Merkel talks about "more sanctions", I read some funny comments on Russian forums by Russians along the lines of "would you impose those sanctions already? We are tired of the talking."

The problem with this economic war is that if it will ever start for real , no matter who wins nor Merkel nor Putin will be affected.
It will be us the average citizen that will get ....in our gas hole.

[Nemo1024]

what if prices for eu also rise by 30-80%?? than things would get interessting...

That would entirely depend on the extent of the sanctioned imposed on Russia. The harder Russia feels hit, the harder it'll need to compensate for the loss in other income.

As Merkel talks about "more sanctions", I read some funny comments on Russian forums by Russians along the lines of "would you impose those sanctions already? We are tired of the talking."

The problem with this economic war is that if it will ever start for real , no matter who wins nor Merkel nor Putin will be affected.
It will be us the average citizen that will get ....in our gas hole.

The sentiment in Russia at the moment, is that sanctions might be good for Russia as a wake-up call to the internal producing economy, which has seen some neglect as of late.

Otherwise, I completely agree with your statement.

[bryant.coleman]

The sentiment in Russia at the moment, is that sanctions might be good for Russia as a wake-up call to the internal producing economy, which has seen some neglect as of late.

They should have completed gas / oil pipelines to China at least one decade ago. Now they have to ship all their gas through LNG, which is quite expensive.

[Nemo1024]

Who's paying you meat-heads to sit on this forum all day, every day, spreading shit? The Russian government?

You might be surprised by the number of people who are not buying into Western media propaganda. Just because the West needs to pay for allies, no need to project that notion on the rest.

a)
Where did he say that?

* She. *

http://www.zham.am/ru/news/24065.html

[bryant.coleman]

Who's paying you meat-heads to sit on this forum all day, every day, spreading shit? The Russian government?

Yes. Putin directly deposits $100 in to my bank account for every post I make here. Happy now? Get a life.

[zolace]

No whining! Ukraine can't have this both ways. Europe and Washington have imposed sanctions on Russia for supporting a legitimate election in Crimea approving secession. Now Ukraine should be ready to face any form of economic sanctions that Russia imposes in retaliation. Ukraine has arrested hundreds of pro-Russian activists and has blocked pro-Russian candidates from the coming May 25 Presidential elections. Russia is defending Ukrainian activists who oppose Washington's illegal coup. Don't start a fight and then complain when the other guy fights back.

[bryant.coleman]

Don't start a fight and then complain when the other guy fights back.

According to my understanding, you are allowed to do that as long as the Americans promises to support you. Whether they really support you or not in the end is another concern.

[bryant.coleman]

Like I said in the other thread, you guys are obsessed with the conspiracy theory that the Americans are somehow behind it all. That the US is somehow funding lots of Ukrainian extremists to destabilise their country so that Russia can steal everything.

Perhaps you need to listen to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2fYcHLouXY

[Nemo1024]

I don't remember any Russian politicians on Maidan fomenting discord, unlike some American and EU ones. So unless Russia recruited Nuland and her kind to go to Ukraine and urge Maidan to oust the President despite prior agreements between Ukraine and EU, I don't see how this all could be Russia's fault.

By saying that US had nothing to do with it, you are implicitly saying that Nuland and co were acting against official American line  on behalf of Russia (i.e. committing treason against US)

Oh, and here's the quote:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article37599.htm

Since the declaration of Ukrainian independence in 1991, the United States supported the Ukrainians in the development of democratic institutions and skills in promoting civil society and a good form of government - all that is necessary to achieve the objectives of Ukraine’s European. We have invested more than 5 billion dollars to help Ukraine to achieve these and other goals.

And looking at the recent pandemic of coloured revolutions, everyone knows what "democratic institutions" and "civil society" and "good form of government" mean.