[ANN][KARM] Karma / ₭ / X11

[kosmost]

To be clear then - Are you saying that the POS transition to occur at a certain block, on an estimated day, is infact subject to your approval when that time comes depending on the price?

Of course not.

I do not have such authority, nor would I want it.

This is a team effort.

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[Momimaus]

I've said it before and will do so again. PoS is a fundamentally different paradigm to PoW.

I agree... PoW is essentially: You do some work you get coins. PoS is essentially: you do nothing, if you have coins you get more coins.

and this is why I have such a fundamental problem with PoS because it guarantees that people will get something for nothing.
Not only does that break the laws of economics but it also breaks the laws of physics.

to put it another way in laymans terms.. Quite simply PoS is the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. Landowners reaping all the rewards while the peasants  who work the land get very little.

that system of serfdom was flawed in Medieval times and it is just as flawed today.
This is why I have a philosophical problem with PoS.

And no that doesn't make me a communist just because I believe that people should be rewarded fairly and equaly for their work. PoW is exactly how a free market system should work. If you subscribe to free market principles then you should believe that everyone has a free and equal chance to generate wealth purely on the basis of how much work they are able to do and how efficiently they can do it. this is the Proof of work system.

the problem with today generation is (and I'm not even that old), that they have a sense of entitlement that everything should be handed to them based on who got there first. this is PoS which I like to call POS.   "My grand daddy found this land and stole it from Injuns so everything you dig up on this land is MINE..." lolz

OT: Alphi, as you have argued several times against any sort of price manipulation, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on Nautiluscoin. Seems a big part of their plan is a fund to stabilize the market value and the coin is founded by a financial expert with lots of experience in the field. Do you also think their plan is illegal?

this also goes back to free market principles and creating a level playing field for all participants, be they miners, traders or users.
the reason why I bring up the question of legality here is because most of us (and I do acknowledge not all of us) live within the Anglo Sphere or what some people might call "The West" and by living where we do, most of us unfortunately are forced to abide by rules and laws which are mostly dictated by the USA. (you can read up on how the US uses trade pacts to push their laws onto other countries, but that's how it is)

with that being said.. I cant comment on Nautiluscoin because I don't know about it.. but I can say this much.
Funds themselves aren't illegal. It is how they are used that determines whether they are legal or not. Holding Karma the way Karma Shares does and investing it into projects to build products and services which grow the Karma economy clearly is not illegal. However if someone at KarmaShares for example was using those funds to trade on open markets and try and game the system by selling when he puts out fake positive news and then buying when he puts out fake negative news then he could potentially get himself into some very serious legal problems.. (and i'm not saying that would happen this is just an example)

Fake buy walls and sell walls are essentially the same thing as putting out fake news and that's what makes them illegal

you can read more about market manipulation here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_manipulation
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/manipulation.asp

and yes I know people may argue that these rules only govern SEC registered securities.. but no they actually don't.
The SEC covers both Securities and Investments. Investments being anything that people put their money into in the hopes of getting a financial return. So it doesn't matter whether its Cryptocoins, trading cards, or apple trees, if people put hard earned money into a scheme like Karma expecting to get some kind of return and then end up losing a bunch of it due to the being ripped off in some way.. then the SEC can and probably will get involved.

(It's the SEC in the USA but every country in the Anglo-sphere I mentioned has similar governing bodies. Also the US authorities get involved wherever enough US citizens have been ripped off regardless of what country the investment scheme is located in)

Anyways sorry for the long post I might read up on nautilus later on and see what they are actually doing before I comment more as Market stabilization is not the same thing as Price Manipulation/Fixing. I usually just post the kind of advisories that I do because I've been investing for many years and I don't want to see people going to jail for doing stupid things and thinking that they are operating in a legal grey area outside the laws of their country.


It think with Karma we need to be more ethical and keep our noses cleaner than most..  because without this unique selling point and community there really is little difference between Karma and all the other Me2 litecoin clones out there.

Haven´t heard so much bullshit at all.

POS means rich get richer and POW the opposite. That´s just a lie, and only an idiot would believe it.
You buy mining equipment for way more money than others will invest, and therefore you want to have more money?

And you do something for the money?? Yeah wasting energy and hardware for absolute nothing, and therefore you get incentives??

There is a reason that POW is dying.

[kosmost]

Please switch it NOW.

[kosmost]

Very few of us are talking about how to add value to Karma.

But, for anyone wondering, it's what I am working on. I'll remain quiet while some of you run around in circles with this.

[Alphi]

Haven´t heard so much bullshit at all.

POS means rich get richer and POW the opposite. That´s just a lie, and only an idiot would believe it.
You buy mining equipment for way more money than others will invest, and therefore you want to have more money?

And you do something for the money?? Yeah wasting energy and hardware for absolute nothing, and therefore you get incentives??

There is a reason that POW is dying.

nice signature

***NXT*** launches asset exchange
Countdown on http://www.nxtcommunity.org/

I do own some NXT too but it has done nothing but lose value since I bought it.. when are you going to make me rich?  

oh wait its up a little on vircurex... I might be able to break even soon... such a great investment for the past 4 months...

[Momimaus]

Haven´t heard so much bullshit at all.

POS means rich get richer and POW the opposite. That´s just a lie, and only an idiot would believe it.
You buy mining equipment for way more money than others will invest, and therefore you want to have more money?

And you do something for the money?? Yeah wasting energy and hardware for absolute nothing, and therefore you get incentives??

There is a reason that POW is dying.

nice signature

***NXT*** launches asset exchange
Countdown on http://www.nxtcommunity.org/

I do own some NXT too but it has done nothing but lose value since I bought it.. when are you going to make me rich? 

Soon bro, very soon 

[Momimaus]

Very few of us are talking about how to add value to Karma.

But, for anyone wondering, it's what I am working on. I'll remain quiet while some of you run around in circles with this.

Stop loosing value equals adding value --> POS

[karmala]

lets accumulate some good karma such we will be secure in the future. Everything will work out. Lets try to support Kosmost. He is really working so hard for us....

[Delaforetnoire]

So, for people who forgot that there are other things in world than PoS  ( ) I am proud to announce you something big.

http://www.reddit.com/r/KarmaTeam/comments/25g5s1/karma_will_participate_to_next_ecofriendly_car/

What if we participate to the 2015 edition of ''4l Trophy''.


What is it? http://www.4ltrophy.com/cat/presentation-en?lang=en

Firstly, some numbers. During the 2014 event, the 15th Raid 4L Trophy, 2648 participants in 1,324 teams, from 1,460 colleges, left the two departure villages of Futuroscope in Poitiers and Saint-Jean de Luz, aboard their mythical 4L. The final destination was Marrakesh, a journey of 10 days and almost 6,000 kilometers on the roads of France, Spain and the pistes of Morocco. These elements make the Raid 4L Trophy the biggest European student car rally.
But the Raid 4L Trophy is more than just numbers on a page, the Raid 4L Trophy is a true humanitarian and sporting adventure for students between 18 and 28 years old. The competition is based on orientation not speed. In this competition success is making it to the finish line. In getting there participants discover the real meaning of helping one another. Avoiding the pitfalls of wadis and the sand which many people get stuck in. Providing breakdown support to others with mechanical problems. In helping one another, the competitors faces show the satisfaction of a job well done and pride in having given everything for themselves and for others.

In addition to their lust for wide open spaces, the teams transport classroom materials in their 4Ls to be given to the poorest children in Morocco. Solidarity is deeply ingrained in the DNA of the 4L Trophy, solidarity towards local inhabitants is not an empty phrase. This is shown by the emotion experienced each year by participants during the ceremony to handover donations organised in partnership with Enfants du Désert, this is one of the high points of the adventure.
I already have the car, an old 1989 Renault 4L. Two friends of mine will lead the driving and mechanical part : these two students will run the race from France to Morocco. They will send us live go pro videos especially for our community on a live website.

///What would be OUR goal?

Our goal is building a beautiful KARMA car !
With so much media exposure in Europe (mainstream TV, newspaper, websites...) we have to create a KARMA sponsored car : full blue paint and big KARMA logo stickers with website links. This car will run on more than 6000 km across France, Spain and Morocco.
For participating to this trophy, building the car and provide a real good paint, we need funds. Actually my student friends are building a non profit organisation for this event, they will be legally able to receive funds from sponsors and they will accept KARM.

I will lead this project, we will provide a nice web page for our KARMA car and we will do a big fundraising for our KARMA Trophy Team !
We need to raise between 5000 and 7000$ in the next 8 months.  What are you thoughts ?

LETS DO IT ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM1dQk9XwBM
More details later.

[Alphi]

So, for people who forgot that there are other things in world than PoS  ( ) I am proud to announce you something big.

http://www.reddit.com/r/KarmaTeam/comments/25g5s1/karma_will_participate_to_next_ecofriendly_car/

We are going to participate to the 2015 edition of ''4l Trophy''.

What is it? http://www.4ltrophy.com/cat/presentation-en?lang=en

I will lead this project, we will provide a nice web page for our KARMA car and we will do a big fundraising for our KARMA Trophy Team !
We need to raise between 5000 and 7000$ in the next 8 months. It could be our next KARMAFUND.ME act, what are you thoughts ?

LETS DO IT !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM1dQk9XwBM
More details later.

+1 i will support this...

I think you can easily get $7000 in 8 months...

just when you make youtube videos of building the car... you can hold up Karma donation addresses... I'm sure lots of people will follow your progress..

[Delaforetnoire]

Yes for sure !

I will work on a webpage + first videos for next couple of weeks.

[learminer]

Very few of us are talking about how to add value to Karma.

But, for anyone wondering, it's what I am working on. I'll remain quiet while some of you run around in circles with this.

Well said. What is it that gives value to Google or Facebook? Certainly not their server specs. Its the services.

I am not innocent in making this PoW/PoS debate bigger than it should be. I am sorry for that. I still do care about coin fundamentals and network security. The team is listening, taking this serious and will come up with a good solution.

Carry on.

[mouseman]

Absolutely agree!

lets accumulate some good karma such we will be secure in the future. Everything will work out. Lets try to support Kosmost. He is really working so hard for us....

[mouseman]

For the suggested goal of $5000 - $7000, would we get a secure a full carwrap pretty much exclusive to only Karma "advertisements" or we would still share them with other sponsors?

An EXCELLENT project idea here. Love it.

KARMA FOR THE WIN!!

So, for people who forgot that there are other things in world than PoS  ( ) I am proud to announce you something big.

http://www.reddit.com/r/KarmaTeam/comments/25g5s1/karma_will_participate_to_next_ecofriendly_car/

We are going to participate to the 2015 edition of ''4l Trophy''.


What is it? http://www.4ltrophy.com/cat/presentation-en?lang=en

Firstly, some numbers. During the 2014 event, the 15th Raid 4L Trophy, 2648 participants in 1,324 teams, from 1,460 colleges, left the two departure villages of Futuroscope in Poitiers and Saint-Jean de Luz, aboard their mythical 4L. The final destination was Marrakesh, a journey of 10 days and almost 6,000 kilometers on the roads of France, Spain and the pistes of Morocco. These elements make the Raid 4L Trophy the biggest European student car rally.
But the Raid 4L Trophy is more than just numbers on a page, the Raid 4L Trophy is a true humanitarian and sporting adventure for students between 18 and 28 years old. The competition is based on orientation not speed. In this competition success is making it to the finish line. In getting there participants discover the real meaning of helping one another. Avoiding the pitfalls of wadis and the sand which many people get stuck in. Providing breakdown support to others with mechanical problems. In helping one another, the competitors faces show the satisfaction of a job well done and pride in having given everything for themselves and for others.

In addition to their lust for wide open spaces, the teams transport classroom materials in their 4Ls to be given to the poorest children in Morocco. Solidarity is deeply ingrained in the DNA of the 4L Trophy, solidarity towards local inhabitants is not an empty phrase. This is shown by the emotion experienced each year by participants during the ceremony to handover donations organised in partnership with Enfants du Désert, this is one of the high points of the adventure.
I already have the car, an old 1989 Renault 4L. Two friends of mine will lead the driving and mechanical part : these two students will run the race from France to Morocco. They will send us live go pro videos especially for our community on a live website.

///What is OUR goal?

Our goal is building a beautiful KARMA car !
With so much media exposure in Europe (mainstream TV, newspaper, websites...) we have to create a KARMA sponsored car : full blue paint and big KARMA logo stickers with website links. This car will run on more than 6000 km across France, Spain and Morocco.
For participating to this trophy, building the car and provide a real good paint, we need funds. Actually my student friends are building a non profit organisation for this event, they will be legally able to receive funds from sponsors and they will accept KARM.

I will lead this project, we will provide a nice web page for our KARMA car and we will do a big fundraising for our KARMA Trophy Team !
We need to raise between 5000 and 7000$ in the next 8 months. It could be our next KARMAFUND.ME act, what are you thoughts ?

LETS DO IT !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM1dQk9XwBM
More details later.

[Chargin]

[snip]
8. I don't have an issue with a company giving me some of its shares for free. However, Karma LLC should not piggy back on Karma's announcement that it might be going to PoS. The entities should be kept as separate as possible to prevent the value of Karma being pegged against a start-up company.

Sorry, I don't understand. Would you care to explain?

The way Karma price could be pegged against the Karmashares LLC price is you are making a direct way to value something (Karma) which otherwise has no value. Obviously this doesn't matter too much anyways if you always allow people to continue to invest in Karmashares LLC with Karma. I'm sure you know my position on Karmashares LLC vs Karma.

Also, I think we should take this transition opportunity to review everything about the coin, including but not limited to transaction fees, block times and everything that can be changed about a coin. Obviously massive changes like this should only ever be done once, so everything should be reviewed now.

Because I made so many points in my original post, I'll expand on the most important three:
Interest being too high.
We have to remember that Karma is primarily a currency.
1. I consider the interest to be similar to inflation, only the holders purchasing power remains the same (all other things being equal). For anyone not holding the currency it would appear as if the inflation rate is over 6%. The inflation rate should be more in line with developed economies currencies at around 1.5-2.5% per annum. People perceive a currency with a high level of inflation as not stable because it doesn't hold value.

Of course I'm taking an extremely long term view here (decades) because the main price driver in all crytocuncies for at least the next ten years will be speculation because Karma has no value unless people give it one, which is also true about fiat currencies. $100 isn't worth anything unless I can swap it with somebody for something. It will always be this way for crpytocurrencies because there is no centralised government increasing and decreasing the flow of the currency to keep it stable. However over time as more people assign a value to cryptocurrencies the more stable they will become against fiat currencies, good and services. At this time speculation will decrease because other investments will have higher possible returns, speculators will over time sell out to people who are using the coin as a currency.

2. If the interest rate is too high not enough Karma will be kept on exchanges. This may not sound like an issue for speculators because it means it is far more likely the currency will increase in value (less to buy on the sell side to push up the price) however it will also make the currency less stable...less like a currency.

3. If the interest rate is too high it may encourage bad practices by exchanges. Exchanges might keep funds in less secure wallets to try to take advantage of the interest.

The decision shouldn't be based on price.
It just doesn't look good if the decision is being made on price. The decision should be made based on what will be the best for Karma in decades to come. Ok, I just wanted to say this again not explain it.

There should be no coin cap.
If inflation works up to the "market cap" it should work beyond it. There is no need to make a two stage process three stages. Either go PoS with no inflation or go PoS and keep inflation. I believe PoS and keep inflation is better because it is more realistic compared to fiat currencies. However this point only applies if the interest is below 3%. Also if the inflation is removed the network may lose some of its security (depending on how exactly the PoS works).

The main advantages of PoS are:
1. The network is more secure;
2. The network costs far less to run (I'd call "saving the planet" good karma); and
3. It encourages people to take their Karma off exchanges unless they plan on selling it in the near future. There is over 2 billion Karma on the market of a single exchange at the moment, probably billions more not on the market just sitting in the exchanges accounts. I don't like concentrations of Karma because it won't take much in the wrong hands to crash its price.

The disadvantages of going to PoS are:
1. It could be completely screwed up, as per my limited understanding of the transition process, moving to PoS would be almost like 51% attacking Karma ourselves. We are doubling the amount of Karma and saying half of it is worthless now because these guys say so.
2. People with mining rigs that don't want to buy coins can no longer mine for them. People can mine other coins and then purchase Karma however some people will be unwilling to take this extra step. Mining is becoming harder and harder for individuals so I think this point will become less valid over time.

I think the advantages are greater than the disadvantages. I'm willing to risk losing the value of a few Karma now if things go wrong to see Karma survive long into the future.

Chargin.

[minorkacologne]

How is this worldcup going on ?


After all for charity !

Btw: nice logo.

[Delaforetnoire]

Sure if we can raise the full amount we could be the major, or the only sponsor of the car !

For the suggested goal of $5000 - $7000, would we get a secure a full carwrap pretty much exclusive to only Karma "advertisements" or we would still share them with other sponsors?

An EXCELLENT project idea here. Love it.

KARMA FOR THE WIN!!

So, for people who forgot that there are other things in world than PoS  ( ) I am proud to announce you something big.

http://www.reddit.com/r/KarmaTeam/comments/25g5s1/karma_will_participate_to_next_ecofriendly_car/

What if we participate to the 2015 edition of ''4l Trophy''?


What is it? http://www.4ltrophy.com/cat/presentation-en?lang=en

Firstly, some numbers. During the 2014 event, the 15th Raid 4L Trophy, 2648 participants in 1,324 teams, from 1,460 colleges, left the two departure villages of Futuroscope in Poitiers and Saint-Jean de Luz, aboard their mythical 4L. The final destination was Marrakesh, a journey of 10 days and almost 6,000 kilometers on the roads of France, Spain and the pistes of Morocco. These elements make the Raid 4L Trophy the biggest European student car rally.
But the Raid 4L Trophy is more than just numbers on a page, the Raid 4L Trophy is a true humanitarian and sporting adventure for students between 18 and 28 years old. The competition is based on orientation not speed. In this competition success is making it to the finish line. In getting there participants discover the real meaning of helping one another. Avoiding the pitfalls of wadis and the sand which many people get stuck in. Providing breakdown support to others with mechanical problems. In helping one another, the competitors faces show the satisfaction of a job well done and pride in having given everything for themselves and for others.

In addition to their lust for wide open spaces, the teams transport classroom materials in their 4Ls to be given to the poorest children in Morocco. Solidarity is deeply ingrained in the DNA of the 4L Trophy, solidarity towards local inhabitants is not an empty phrase. This is shown by the emotion experienced each year by participants during the ceremony to handover donations organised in partnership with Enfants du Désert, this is one of the high points of the adventure.
I already have the car, an old 1989 Renault 4L. Two friends of mine will lead the driving and mechanical part : these two students will run the race from France to Morocco. They will send us live go pro videos especially for our community on a live website.

///What would be OUR goal?

Our goal is building a beautiful KARMA car !
With so much media exposure in Europe (mainstream TV, newspaper, websites...) we have to create a KARMA sponsored car : full blue paint and big KARMA logo stickers with website links. This car will run on more than 6000 km across France, Spain and Morocco.
For participating to this trophy, building the car and provide a real good paint, we need funds. Actually my student friends are building a non profit organisation for this event, they will be legally able to receive funds from sponsors and they will accept KARM.

I will lead this project, we will provide a nice web page for our KARMA car and we will do a big fundraising for our KARMA Trophy Team !
We need to raise between 5000 and 7000$ in the next 8 months. What are you thoughts ?

LETS DO IT ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM1dQk9XwBM
More details later.

[Delaforetnoire]

Some new users meet syncing problem with our wallet.

If you are having trouble connecting to peers, you want to update your peers.dat file.

Before any change, don't forget to make a backup of your wallet.dat in a secure place.

>Download the updated peers.dat file here :
http://karmacoin.me/wallets/peers.dat

>Close your Karma wallet.

>Go on ''C:\Users******\AppData\Roaming\Karma

>Paste and erase your old peers.dat with the new one.

***NEVER DELETE YOUR WALLET.DAT FILE OR YOU WILL LOOSE YOUR COINS !

Launch your Karma wallet again, wait few minutes : it syncs !

[ShawnLeary]

seriously guys and gals, there are plenty of PoS pure coins out there, go have at it.  NXT is an excellent one. 

We are a PoW LiteCoin clone.  it is a proven system.  I think merge mining would be a safer move if one is even warranted.

Now go do something productive with your time rather than posting non-sensible mumbo-jumbo economics gibberish.  There is an entire stock equities market based on PoS, so plenty of options out there for everyone, AAPL, GOOGL, TWTR.  The thinkorswim platform from TD Ameritrade is what I recommend. Go have at it.

If you actually want to do something productive and help the price go up the normal way, please message me or kosmost or any of the team and we will put you to work. 

[ShawnLeary]

How is this worldcup going on ?


After all for charity !

Btw: nice logo.

Going good! We were up over 20M KARMs so far!