[ANN][KARM] Karma / ₭ / X11

[TheLittleDuke]

Dave, let us know more about this when you have time please.

Maybe an AMA on Reddit would be in order?

[TheLittleDuke]

Please start your work, the community will appreciate it.
Time to start with what Karma deserves to be.

Thanks Maurizio for the vote of confidence.

I can relay that Andre and Perica are of the same mindset as I am on this:

"We would rather do this RIGHT than do it over."

Too many before us have been REALLY bad at managing expectations.  If we're going to get involved and commit to helping manage the coinbase development we'll have to get clear on this in order to be transparent.

I would rather "under-promise and over-deliver" any day.

But as it is right now we need to make sure that the community is aligned with us.

It does not serve anyone's purpose to have people working actively against us.

-dvd

[altcoingood]

The __ONLY__ thing that karma needs is the hostname that has been put into the source-code that points to either a wallet or a seednode. Whoever controls that controls karma.

EVERYTHING ELSE CAN BE DONE BY ANYONE!!!! IF YOU HAVE SOME TECH/SERVICE JUST RUN IT!!!!! YOU DON'T NEED PERMISSION!!!!

*GASP* THERE CAN BE MORE THAN ONE MERCHANT API IMPLEMENTATION *GASP*

GO GO GO

More "READY-FIRE-AIM" rhetoric...

YES we can AND that is something Andre, Perica and I have been discussing -- the idea of establishing multi-continent, redundant checkpointing nodes as well as the websites replication and redundancy.   They would run the EU servers and we would run the US infrastructure.

Trust me you WANT the wallets to be built by someone with good intentions.

Strength in Numbers Foundation has committed to doing source-code scanning (dynamic and static using a tool like HP's Fortify) for the wallets we will build.  Also malware scanning and digital signature services.

We would like to blend in the work that Clean Water Coin has recently done with its new wallet by adding a "Donation" tab and a nominal transaction that benefits the on-going support.  But that's up to the Board of Stakeholders to decide and approve.

-dvd

So exactly why are you holding back? Launch the API, launch the services you want.

Strength in Numbers Foundation has committed to doing source-code scanning (dynamic and static using a tool like HP's Fortify) for the wallets we will build.  Also malware scanning and digital signature services.

First of all build some services, run them and then maybe start talking about "building wallets". You don't just build a wallet and fork the network.

None of what you want to do needs new wallets.

There is no need for a power-grab, all that is needed is that the seed-node runs on the bootstrap domain/ip-address from the source-code.

Paste the domainname/ip address here so I know you are sincere. If you can't find it you don't need to talk about building wallets.

[TheLittleDuke]

Paste the domainname/ip address here so I know you are sincere. If you can't find it you don't need to talk about building wallets.

Gee do you mean these as found in net.ccp (at line 1190) ?

Code:

// DNS seeds
// Each pair gives a source name and a seed name.
// The first name is used as information source for addrman.
// The second name should resolve to a list of seed addresses.
static const char *strMainNetDNSSeed[][2] = {
    {"alltheco.in", "karmaseeder.alltheco.in"},
    {NULL, NULL}
};

static const char *strTestNetDNSSeed[][2] = {
    {"alltheco.in", "testnet-karmaseeder.alltheco.in"},
    {NULL, NULL}
};

[altcoingood]

Paste the domainname/ip address here so I know you are sincere. If you can't find it you don't need to talk about building wallets.

Gee do you mean these as found in net.ccp ?

Code:

// DNS seeds
// Each pair gives a source name and a seed name.
// The first name is used as information source for addrman.
// The second name should resolve to a list of seed addresses.
static const char *strMainNetDNSSeed[][2] = {
    {"alltheco.in", "karmaseeder.alltheco.in"},
    {NULL, NULL}
};

static const char *strTestNetDNSSeed[][2] = {
    {"alltheco.in", "testnet-karmaseeder.alltheco.in"},
    {NULL, NULL}
};

No need to gee me. You have no idea how much destructive power I have and I am getting quite bored with you. I'd just like to go travel without shooting a lot of negative energy out in the universe. So ok... anyway... I am trying to help..... Back on track.

Good now that you found the domain, whois the domain and you will know who to contact, this guy is the only one who has a service that is REALLY needed with karmacoin. Everything else is just icing on the caek.

for everyone this guy is

Registrant ID:CR142497995
Registrant Name:Peter Bushnell
Registrant Street1:5 Teale Close, Arncott
Registrant City:Bicester
Registrant State/Province:Oxfordshire
Registrant Postal Code:OX25 1QJ
Registrant Country:GB
Registrant Phone:+7.876516004
Registrant Email:bushsolo@gmail.com

And his service is not really NEEDED either. Clients will just have to addnode a node if the seednode goes down. We did that for a long time after Karmacoingood (the original developer) closed down his seednode and until we got this seednode added to the source code. I am not sure what the exact agreement is with alltheco.in about the seednode, if they expect payment or something or if this is a free service that will run indefinitely.

I really don't understand why you need to *own* karmacoin to create services for it. Truly I don't. Cryptocurrencies are P2P in nature. They are not centralised. STOP TRYING TO CENTRALISE KARMA FFS. If the recent shitstorm has shown anything it's that centralised leadership is bad. Kosmost did his divide and conquer and isolated willing victims and killed the coin.

So no, everything should be spread around. I am so tired of listening to all this "wah wah we want to control karma", "NO _WE_ WANT TO CONTROL KARMA" back and forth.

Everyone can have karma

[TheLittleDuke]

No need to gee me. You have no idea how much destructive power I have and I am getting quite bored with you. I'd just like to go travel without shooting a lot of negative energy out in the universe. So ok... anyway... I am trying to help..... Back on track.

Yes let's try and stay on track without resorting to comparing penis size shall we?  Or would you rather we go to the range and compare who's the better shot with a 9MM ?  Seriously you people just don't seem to understand how to have respectful, adult conversations...

I mean I get that most of my high-wire acts all my life have been for the simple pleasure of trying to impress some girl somewhere -- so I sincerely hope whomever you're showing off to appreciates you more for it...

OBVIOUSLY we do not need those seed nodes if we update the wallet, remove the "karmashares" moniker within it AND expand the capability by adding in support for a Donation Tab.  I think I read somewhere that someone was suggesting putting in wallet advertising -- personally I don't much care for that, but if that's what the community wants I think it should be an "opt-in" feature if it earns those users more coin.

PERSONALLY, I think an Electrum style wallet is a much more useful model going forward, so that would be my recommend as a possible bounty-paid side project.

And for what I hope is the last time I have to repeat this:

Karma doesn't want to be controlled.  Not by me, not by anyone.

What I am proposing is mediating HOW Karma develops by helping to establish some consistency to that process, to be managed by a group of legitimate stakeholders who agree with whatever vision is established.

I believe that what Andre, Perica and I jointly offer is real world business experience that can translate into significant value-add for the Karma eco-system.  

But I can tell you that in our conversations our own appetite for continuing to put up with this kind of nonsense is wearing thin as well.

-dvd

[altcoingood]

Yes let's try and stay on track without resorting to comparing penis size shall we?

Gee I wonder how this started.

But I can tell you that in our conversations our own appetite for continuing to put up with this kind of nonsense is wearing thin as well.

I am sure most people here can see who is aggressive.

The "nonsense" you are putting up with is people telling you "no you can't have ownership of karma" and "no we don't want to listen to your threats about forking everything and moving along without us"... So please... just create your services and let's see what happens. Can you walk the walk or do you just talk.

The only people any karma-stakeholder should take seriously are people who are running services for karma. Anyone can _SAY_ that they want to do this and that for the coin but if they don't why the fuck would you trust them?! Anyway... I am out for today.

[learminer]

Thank you very much learminer for being generous towards the community! I received your 3M Karma donation. BTW, do you know how I can embed the game you are developing with ptman to this website? ---> http://easteagle13.wix.com/karma

Actually I sent BTC, lol. Thing is I have done several other donations in the past, often without posting here. I don't believe I need to always out myself as the one contributing, I just did it the last time because I wanted to put some weight behind my point that fairglu deserves his payment and this time because you really seem to like making Excel spreadsheets.

edit: ptman is the better person to answer that as he did the coding, but from what I remember it should work just fine if wrapped in an iframe, or be hosted as a static HTML file...

[altcoingood]

I saw a new opensource merchant API project for bitcoin released a few days ago but it is not really forkable right now because it relies on external block explorers not a local wallet. I would have forked it otherwise.

Does anyone here know about an opensource merchant APIs for bitcoin or similar coin. I'll port and host it if someone points me in the right direction.

[bondi]

I saw a new opensource merchant API project for bitcoin released a few days ago but it is not really forkable right now because it relies on external block explorers not a local wallet. I would have forked it otherwise.

Does anyone here know about an opensource merchant APIs for bitcoin or similar coin. I'll port and host it if someone points me in the right direction.

Bitpay?
https://github.com/bitpay

[easteagle13]

Thank you very much learminer for being generous towards the community! I received your 3M Karma donation. BTW, do you know how I can embed the game you are developing with ptman to this website? ---> http://easteagle13.wix.com/karma

Actually I sent BTC, lol. Thing is I have done several other donations in the past, often without posting here. I don't believe I need to always out myself as the one contributing, I just did it the last time because I wanted to put some weight behind my point that fairglu deserves his payment and this time because you really seem to like making Excel spreadsheets.

edit: ptman is the better person to answer that as he did the coding, but from what I remember it should work just fine if wrapped in an iframe, or be hosted as a static HTML file...

Ahh ok sorry for the mix up, I received 3M some hours ago and your post coincided with it's timing...Bitcoin donation wallet is still syncing.. 15 weeks to go. This is because I rebuilt my system. Somehow the database was corrupted so it has to be re downloaded. I have no idea how much you sent in at the moment...and I wish I love to make spreadsheets ^_^. Thanks again.

Regarding the game, Ill try to embed the java file I got or I'll wait till ptman find another time to be around.

BTW. There will be some pleasant surprise for the likes of you who donated for our services expenditures...Coming soon!

[easteagle13]

I saw a new opensource merchant API project for bitcoin released a few days ago but it is not really forkable right now because it relies on external block explorers not a local wallet. I would have forked it otherwise.

Does anyone here know about an opensource merchant APIs for bitcoin or similar coin. I'll port and host it if someone points me in the right direction.

Are you looking for something like this ACG?

https://blog.blockchain.com/2014/03/27/blockchain-merchant-now-open-source/

[socoban]

I saw a new opensource merchant API project for bitcoin released a few days ago but it is not really forkable right now because it relies on external block explorers not a local wallet. I would have forked it otherwise.

Does anyone here know about an opensource merchant APIs for bitcoin or similar coin. I'll port and host it if someone points me in the right direction.

Bitpay?
https://github.com/bitpay

Bitpay insight API is already converted for KARM. I am hosting it for many weeks. You can find insight explorer at: http://162.243.209.71:3000/  and API at http://162.243.209.71:3000/api/   anyone can use that API, here are the instructions: https://github.com/bitpay/insight-api

[learminer]

What I am proposing is mediating HOW Karma develops by helping to establish some consistency to that process, to be managed by a group of legitimate stakeholders who agree with whatever vision is established.

I believe that what Andre, Perica and I jointly offer is real world business experience that can translate into significant value-add for the Karma eco-system.  

But I can tell you that in our conversations our own appetite for continuing to put up with this kind of nonsense is wearing thin as well.

You shouldn't forget you're still dealing with a bunch of scared and angry chikens right now, myself included. Call it immature or illogical, but many of us have/had a really strong connection to Karma and the events that took place earlier this month shook us pretty badly. Took me a while to get my calm again and since I don't particuarly like saying nasty things, I've decided not to say anything. Well that's not entirely true, I did try to get some answers out of kosmost for a while, but that felt like wrestling with an oiled snake, so I threw the towel and gave up.

The only advise I can give you, as well as André and Perica, is show some patience. This doesn't need to be settled in a hurry. Obvioulsy the past and present leadership of Karma is not willing to give you the keys to the house or their blessing. But like several others already mentioned, I don't see why you would need that. The coin itself is in good shape. Sure it would be nice to find a new process to determine possible future direction etc., but it doesn't matter if that is established now, 2 weeks, or even two months from now.

I can only speak for myself, but I am happy about anyone who sees potential in Karma and invite you to stay. You're welcome to try and help built a better Karma from the ashes of Karmashares. God knows we need some help. But the same speech I gave bitwho applies to you. Right now trust is a rare commodity here and has to be earned. That applies not only to the current team, but also for you and anybody else who wants to "guide" our coin.

[ShawnLeary]

The math unfortunately doesn't add up for the number of Karma coins. 

The market cap of 62B coins at 10 satoshi is 6200 Bitcoins.  6200 BTC at $400 is $2,480,000.00   How many Litecoin/Dogecoin/Bitcoin clones have a market cap above $1M?  How many coins out there survive in the single satoshi range? 

The only way out was, and still is, a 10:1 reverse split, and better yet a 100:1 reverse split or greater.

The attempt by Kosmost to reverse engineer Karma into a crypto-equity was brilliant IMO.  The legality of which was in that gray area, especially after some more recent rulings.  Proof of Coin concept came from him and bitwho.  We all gave 110% for Karma and if you care to read the old threads you would see that.

Again, the math isn't there unless you build value.  That value has to come from either a huge community based, such that Doge has, or adopt a technology that attracts the crypto masses to come and hold coin for the long term.  NO ONE wants to buy a single satoshi coin and watch a few ticks go by and be at a 50% loss.  This is the the unfortunate part of the math that won't go away unless the number of coins is reduced.

You need an entirely new fork, less coins.  My plan to try and unite with NXT fell on deaf ears.  All you are left with now is a fucking great name.  Karma is and always will be a great name.

Good luck.

Shawn

[TheLittleDuke]

Thank you Shawn for having the fortitude for calling it out for what it is:  RIDICULOUS

YES we emphatically agree that the total number of coins is nonsensical -- it is a cartoon number that people in the crypto community do not respect and people outside of it cannot fathom.

But it goes one step further, the same tired drum I will keep beating here and in other coinbases that have not figured out what they want to be when they grow up -- that fundamentally beyond a great name, the coin must serve some purpose that a consumer readily recognizes.

A coin that exists for miners and investors is little more than mutual masturbation.  In the end someone isn't going to be satisfied.

And to learminer -- we are totally on board with being patient -- it's why we state quite clearly that our interest is in "doing things right versus doing them over"

If you look back at the dialogue over the last couple of weeks we are reaching a tipping point where we can engage in an honest assessment of the current state of the coinbase instead of what was and what should be.

As some of you know I'm a private pilot with my own airplane.  One thing they drill into your head in pilot training is this:

"A good pilot does not deny their situation"

It serves no one's purpose to "wish" you had fuel or oil or had not flown into bad weather.  You must accept your situation honestly and decide what you're going to do about it.  With no emotion.

For the haters here, ask yourself if you would want your posts displayed on national TV -- would you be proud to show them to your mother's and father's ?

Karma needs to be free and in more than just the top 100 holders hands.

If you're tired of having the same conversations or sick of the drama I would encourage you to send me a private PM with any concerns or find me on Skype (The_Little_Duke)

I think you'll find once you stop demonizing people and look at the mutual interests instead of the positions you'll see we're closer than you might think.

-dvd

[altcoingood]

Let's just pick ONE post and try to highlight some of the weird stuff you are saying thelittleduke...

Uhm?  Duh?  Did I not say it was a simple clone?  It was meant to demonstrate what we can do even if we do not have the current teams help.

And once again, what exactly is stopping you to create service for Karma?

The thing I wrestle with is how to avoid rewarding bad behavior. Its why I'm not at all interested in buying what you're selling today because honestly I do not think it has any utility for me. I don't feel compelled to show any kind of fidelity or any grand gestures to impress this current crowd.  The ideas and prior track record alone should suffice for my credentials.

The truth is there is really NOTHING preventing us from doing our own thing, creating a KARMA2 and letting the market decide.

You seem to think that what you have is precious and rare and unique.  

We do not all hold to that belief.

Again no need to create a new coin. You can use the current "infrastructure" to build on. Nothing bad will happen, the sky will not fall but you will gain the trust of the community members. Why do you seem hellbent on controlling this coin before you even launch a single service for it?

Please launch a karma-related site before you start stealing the infrastructure (and yes stealing someone's html and posting it as your own is just passive aggressive behaviour that hints about your motives and how you conduct business,)

Karma needs to be free and in more than just the top 100 holders hands.

I think you'll find once you stop demonizing people and look at the mutual interests instead of the positions you'll see we're closer than you might think.

Yes from the "Gee" and other spiteful comments-duek comes this. Let me tell you what I told others. If you are the perpetrator of bad behavoir you are really not the one to tell others to stop this behaviour. It's psychology 101.

.... Did you really fuck off all the way back to here so soon?

[easteagle13]

Finally, the BTC donation wallet is fully synced.

Thank you learminer for your 0.02957572 BTC donation.  (Aside from 0.0425 BTC before)

and also thanks to someone who is still anonymous for the 0.0194 BTC donation.

Bringing our current BTC donation balance to: 0.10237661 BTC

To donate Karma for Promotion:      KJTXThjDznwqqJiv33kPqxrxGa52CWJ4Bm

To donate Karma for development:  KRuPCSjz5YgatDETwiwERLZffEstmRYbCs

To donate BTC for development:     12RVXoccgLy8o4GyeUULRmYhaaEL2emvQD


-east

[p4r4m0un7]

Let's just pick ONE post and try to highlight some of the weird stuff you are saying thelittleduke...

Uhm?  Duh?  Did I not say it was a simple clone?  It was meant to demonstrate what we can do even if we do not have the current teams help.

And once again, what exactly is stopping you to create service for Karma?

The thing I wrestle with is how to avoid rewarding bad behavior. Its why I'm not at all interested in buying what you're selling today because honestly I do not think it has any utility for me. I don't feel compelled to show any kind of fidelity or any grand gestures to impress this current crowd.  The ideas and prior track record alone should suffice for my credentials.

The truth is there is really NOTHING preventing us from doing our own thing, creating a KARMA2 and letting the market decide.

You seem to think that what you have is precious and rare and unique.  

We do not all hold to that belief.

Again no need to create a new coin. You can use the current "infrastructure" to build on. Nothing bad will happen, the sky will not fall but you will gain the trust of the community members. Why do you seem hellbent on controlling this coin before you even launch a single service for it?

Please launch a karma-related site before you start stealing the infrastructure (and yes stealing someone's html and posting it as your own is just passive aggressive behaviour that hints about your motives and how you conduct business,)

Karma needs to be free and in more than just the top 100 holders hands.

I think you'll find once you stop demonizing people and look at the mutual interests instead of the positions you'll see we're closer than you might think.

Yes from the "Gee" and other spiteful comments-duek comes this. Let me tell you what I told others. If you are the perpetrator of bad behavoir you are really not the one to tell others to stop this behaviour. It's psychology 101.

.... Did you really fuck off all the way back to here so soon?

I suppose it was a well guided and structured @#$@. So, why are you surprised? 

[TheLittleDuke]

Again no need to create a new coin. You can use the current "infrastructure" to build on. Nothing bad will happen, the sky will not fall but you will gain the trust of the community members. Why do you seem hellbent on controlling this coin before you even launch a single service for it?

You and I actually agree on this point regarding the "new" coin -- what I am suggesting is a coin that actually does something.

The desire to put stable and supported infrastructure in place is actually a coordinated effort with Andre & Perica.  Two of your largest shareholders.

Please launch a karma-related site before you start stealing the infrastructure (and yes stealing someone's html and posting it as your own is just passive aggressive behaviour that hints about your motives and how you conduct business,)

Why would I invest in a new service on a broken, fragile platform that has a community in chaos?  Better to help TRIAGE the situation first.

We simply CLONED the current sites (Andre & Perica have cloned the Karmawire site I think) -- we felt that it was necessary to assure continuity for the community should they shutdown.  I've flipped http://karmarewards.me back over to point to our KARMATag.org landing page.

Yes from the "Gee" and other spiteful comments-duek comes this. Let me tell you what I told others. If you are the perpetrator of bad behavoir you are really not the one to tell others to stop this behaviour. It's psychology 101.

I'm treating you the way you clearly want to be treated.  It's called THE PLATINUM RULE.  I'm not telling you to stop -- by all means continue to act like a petty little tyrant.  Doesn't matter to me.  You don't strike me as someone who is not very happy with his lot in life anyway.

.... Did you really fuck off all the way back to here so soon?

Do you really kiss your mother with that mouth?