[ANN][KARM] Karma / ₭ / X11

[TheLittleDuke]

Duke any contributions (advice or otherwise) that you make to the community are welcomed and appreciated.
with that being said.. as you can clearly see now, we already have one person who claimed to be the messiah going back on their word and taking unilateral action to sell assets owned by the community without community consultation.

that process has been extremely destructive to that persons reputation and the community as a whole.

I will never again do business with a person who claimed to "donate" their time and resources to a project all to turn around and start selling things and making changes that benefit nobody.

this is not the spirit of Karma (either the coin or the philosophy)
the senate has turned on Caesar because he took a republic which was built by the people for the people and tried rule over it like a king.

the last thing this community needs is another person coming in and claiming to own Karma and making unilateral decisions on the core system and how it operates.

this is not how open source crypto communities work and it is not how the community will grow over time...
you say that you worked on the BAMT project?.. well then you of all people should understand this principle.

feel free to buy services from Kosmost.. nobody will stop you (except maybe his shareholders)...
feel free to work for the good of the community everyone will support you...

but if you want to "own" Karma or any of its core assets then you have to join the community by owning or mining the coins just like everyone else.

I am one of the original members of the Karma team that formed after the original developer Karmagood was struggling (its all there in the history).. I have fought hard to keep the non profit "Karma" separated from any "for Profit" entity like Karmashares LLC and I will continue to do so in the future.

I support free enterprise just as I supported Karmashares' right to do business within the Karma ecosystem.. but there should always be a clear line between the Non Profit Open source core of Karma and the For Profit entities that want to use Karma, otherwise we will be back here in an other 3 months when the next messiah fails to deliver on their promises.

As an atheist I kind of have to chuckle at your 'messiah' language

I appreciate the passion and the interest the members show here, but fundamentally there is no power structure and worst of all no accountability.  Other than the thin veil of "rational self interest" -- your current community is largely focused on maximizing their own return on investment -- which is wholly incompatible with the ideas around Karma -- in my humble opinion.

Of all the assets that have value, the Trademark is it as far as I'm concerned -- its owned by an individual, not a community.  Everything else is open source and freely available.  I already have directional control of the X11 based Givecoin, a site that uses and advertises it and an exchange capable to trading it.  Plus its actually a "crypto for charitable giving" and a legitimate non-profit to handle it for the public trust.

So if you think your future lies in distributing the pieces and parts to places with no means of control -- go for it.

If on the other hand you want to have an organization with assets and motivation to see it prosper, let me know.

I'm not going anywhere...

-dvd

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[Alphi]

As an atheist I kind of have to chuckle at your 'messiah' language

I appreciate the passion and the interest the members show here, but fundamentally there is no power structure and worst of all no accountability.  Other than the thin veil of "rational self interest" -- your current community is largely focused on maximizing their own return on investment -- which is wholly incompatible with the ideas around Karma -- in my humble opinion.

Of all the assets that have value, the Trademark is it as far as I'm concerned -- its owned by an individual, not a community.  Everything else is open source and freely available.  I already have directional control of the X11 based Givecoin, a site that uses and advertises it and an exchange capable to trading it.  Plus its actually a "crypto for charitable giving" and a legitimate non-profit to handle it for the public trust.

So if you think your future lies in distributing the pieces and parts to places with no means of control -- go for it.

If on the other hand you want to have an organization with assets and motivation to see it prosper, let me know.

I'm not going anywhere...

-dvd

I have already explained how buying assets from a person that can be challenged in court is problematic. especially when there is so much documentation and so many witnesses which can testify contrary to his claims. It is of course your choice if you want to take the risk both financially and to your reputation of going down that path.

Under common law there is a clear distinction between Leadership and ownership.. this is what Kosmost never seemed to understand. obtaining ownership of any asset by what now appears to be a deception, does not make it legal under the law and this is something that he may have to face down the line.

further more giving people ownership in an LLC and then revoking it by returning their initial investment does not void their ownership claims and make you sole owner of all assets. there is also enough case law for disgruntled investors to make a court challenge.

I believe that the future for any crypto currency lies in strong leadership not strong ownership.

those people who blindly followed their own greed and hoped to get rich from the Karmashares promises have largely left the community. the people endlessly making scam accusations and trolling are generally not long established members of the community nor do they speak for the community.

quite frankly I am happy to see them dump but what I do not want to see is yet another repeat of Karmashares, nor do most people who remain invested in Karma.

I'd much rather see a community grow slowly and steadily than pump and crash over and over again and I am one of the people who actually benefits from all the hype and dumping..

by the way you think an atheist can't act like a messiah? I guess you never heard of Mao, Che Guevara, Lenin or Kim il sung.

Atheism does not preclude people from delusion of grandeur and starting their own cults.

I am not saying you have delusions of grandeur.. I'm just saying that the people clearly don't want another "dear leader" who does.

and that is why they are being extremely cautious of any Greeks who may seem to bear gifts. (to borrow a phrase from history)

[TheLittleDuke]

I have already explained how buying assets from a person that can be challenged in court is problematic. especially when there is so much documentation and so many witnesses which can testify contrary to his claims. It is of course your choice if you want to take the risk both financially and to your reputation of going down that path.
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The problem with the above that it presupposes you could get enough people to mount a challenge in court worth fighting over.  

I'm gonna guess that when push comes to shove your little community couldn't scrape enough funds together to engage and retain an attorney.  Because in the end whoever buys it out could just roll over and relinquish it sticking you all with the legal bill

In fact that's pretty obvious considering that NO ONE bothered to get a legal opinion on whether the whole Karmashares, llc thing was legally offering its security (it wasn't and that's NOT due to a change in the IRS treatment of Cryptocurrencies as Kosmost would want you to believe -- it has everything to do with SEC rules around the solicitation of unregistered securities to an unsophisticated investor -- that's what MY attorney told me when I ask him to look into the claims)

Prior Art for the most part applies to Patent Law -- Trademark's are different animals -- at least Kosmost understood that part of it -- it's why we have things like Dove soap and Dove chocolate bars.

Doesn't matter to me any way -- all I said was it was the only thing that had the MOST value -- I can probably go out tomorrow and Trademark "KarmaPoints" if I wanted to.

I have no delusions of grandeur -- it's why I build communities and hire people smarter than me.

You all have a ton of baggage and my guess is that you're going to continue to experience attrition in your fanbase as your miners flee to more profitable coinbases -- because that's what smart money does all over the world in all kinds of assets.

Fundamentally unless you start treating this more like a business and less like a hobby that's all it will ever be is a hobby...IMHO...

-dvd

PS: And leave the personal attacks at the door -- I have a minor philosophy from a Catholic college so I'm pretty sure I understand the sentiment you were implying originally...

[Beachguy]

I have a question for DVD.....if things here have no value as you state.
Why do you keep hanging around?
And please keep it simple so our
"little community" can understand it.

[p4r4m0un7]

It is not so hard to decide what is good for Karma. Give to East Karmacoin.me and let him deal with the community - this is the most important job and no one else can do it better. Give bitwho the wallet, mroysa - accounts for Facebook and other social sites, spread the Karma trademark and its attributes between several members, so no person can have it solely from now on. Continue the research on penetrating Asia or whatsoever. Bring back online lill, handover it to several members and share your vision and thoughts about how development should continue until full integration with Karma. If TheLittleDuke is so good in business development, put back online Wespond, Hireplex, eyeQ and let him decide how to handle and develop these services or just one of them, but without having the technical ownership. Bring back improved PoC model. If you are scared of SEC or something else, than give the core technical ownership to somebody, who is not under the authority of SEC. Why so hard to understand? Like bitwho said, in crypto 99% of the people will continue to see their help only in holding coins. And IMO this will never change. No matter what. Crypto is not a regular business like the others. Your thoughts of new business models don`t apply here. By now you all should understand that people here doesn`t get excited by someone who is willing to give them another 8-5 job without clear and visible results. Two few get passionate to develop crypto coin as their baby and project for life. But when you find someone give him the chance and support and all the trust you have. East, bitwho, Alphi, socoban, altcoingood are the people we should trust. And I don't need my MBA or certificate for stock exchange broker to know this. Spread the services between many persons and let them collaborate. And I don`t see why all the rush. Because of several trolls? The bigger the community, the more ugly trolls will come. So don`t make any promises and continue slowly. This is obviously the best for Karma ATM. Can it be done and how? It is for you to decide. Maybe sacrifice some initial investments I suppose. Maybe these investments will be returned at later stage. Who knows...

[xtrm]

I'm using the latest Karma wallet v0.8.6.2.5, the wallet does not sync. Its stuck at "2 weeks behind". I deleted peers.dat and reopened the wallet, still it doesn't work. I kept the wallet open for more than 24 hours now. Can anybody help me to resolve the sync issue?

I had invested more than 150M in KarmaShares and it looks like KarmaShares concept is cancelled now. I was out of Crypto for a while and now I see website quoting "Karmashares is permanently offline. All coins have been returned to coin-holders."

Has everyone got back their coins which they invested in KarmaShares?

Appreciate your help.

Please try the following:

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIbo27XbGag
 Text: If Karma wallet is not syncing try to do what the video above suggests: click “help”, “debug window”, “console”, a command line window will appear.
 Near the bottom, type in:

   addnode altcoin.dk:9432 add
   addnode altcoin.dk:9436 add

 If the above did not solve the problem, download a working peers.dat file
 mediafire: http://www.mediafire.com/download/vry3yj0azha45de/peers.dat
 Close your Karma wallet, and access C:\Users\[replaceWithUserName]\AppData\Roaming (easiest to find by copy-pasting into the RUN DIALOG BOX of Windows).
 Locate and open the Karma folder located within.
 Copy the downloaded file and paste it into the Karma folder, deleting the old peers.dat in the process.

Yes, I have personally received 100% of my KarmaShares coins back and I have not heard anyone else state they have not as well.

I'm using the latest Karma wallet v0.8.6.2.5, the wallet does not sync. Its stuck at "2 weeks behind". I deleted peers.dat and reopened the wallet, still it doesn't work. I kept the wallet open for more than 24 hours now. Can anybody help me to resolve the sync issue?

I had invested more than 150M in KarmaShares and it looks like KarmaShares concept is cancelled now. I was out of Crypto for a while and now I see website quoting "Karmashares is permanently offline. All coins have been returned to coin-holders."

Has everyone got back their coins which they invested in KarmaShares?

Appreciate your help.

Worked fine. Also received my coins from Karmashares. Thank you guys.

[bitwho]

alright guys. you're all doing it all over again. Attacking , swearing , talking loud and barely listening.

LittleDuke,

I appreciate your comments. I too was the one who went to Kosmost , shawn and alex 6 months back and gave them a long speech how we should not treat the coin as a coin. I gave them the idea to open a company and use karma as the mean of payment for this company. It doesnt take much to understand that any Cryptocoin is born with strong ties to the miners community and the investors community. Its root as so deep , that no mater how much everyone believes in it. once they see a %20 drop in price then its massive sell panic mode. I told the team we should open an company , but not like a "foundation" like the bitcoin foundation but a for profit company that will be supported by karma investors at first but then become bigger and much more involved. Karma as a coin can grow so much. it has boundaries. but when we tie into a business then we can grow that business from any angle. Create a world with karma as its currencies

i come here every day and i am amazed of how much the Karma blockchain can be used for. So shocked to see every new coin community always worrying about features to boost up the Satoshi prices. So short sighted.

We only see the block chain as a coin. that has values. Not like an empty envelope that you can pack any kind of information inside it. We only care how much is the stamp and the fees.

Visionaries like etherium dev wants to use their "block" chain so marry people. The blockchain are the ultimate solution to trust-less services. its like you signing a document and its forever engraved in a stone by every single person in the network.

I personally see karma coin as a kick started system , investing in services that are trying to do something good for the world. I see my karma address become my future identity. I see my address linked up to my phone and unlock my car door the moment i come closer to my car. I see my hashed karma address as my bank account where i can buy anything.  he beautiful thing about this is that it is open source so anyone can use it for anything.

Bitcoin is not a coin, bitcoin is a platform. Karma coin is not money, Karma is a platform. they are both worth as much as people are willing to believe on the chances that they will become something

Its been months now and we have yet to find one thing to use karma for. One! We haven't even begin to get one thing going on for karma. It's so stressful watch this beautiful opportunity fo to waste. The blockchain go to waste. The network of people this coin brought together go to waste.

We have dented our beautiful name in the cryptoworld. Outsiders might not give us credit but everyone knows what Karma coin is. They know it belongs to us.

we are too busy playing blaming game. What has happened should not be forgotten but we should not let it hold us back. We learned some harsh lesson recently and we have to be more careful in future.

One of the lesson learned is that Karma is an open source and everyone is entitled to give it a shot.

While i agree that karma need to be seen as business model, i am starting to see that karma should not be only that. Last time we got lost and for past few months it was only about the LLC , lill.com and POC. While the LLC was created in good will it ended up being the life or karma and when this project failed it looked like karma coin failed. We must learn from this mistakes and treat any other business entrepreneurs as a side project of karma.

Every single one of them should be welcomed by all of us and helped to reach their endgoals. How ever we will have to remind our self the true legion is to the blockchain.

So let not be hostile to anyone that takes more then two seconds to share their ideas for our coin. Especially at a time where we are lacking activity from the most karmanians.

[Alphi]

I have already explained how buying assets from a person that can be challenged in court is problematic. especially when there is so much documentation and so many witnesses which can testify contrary to his claims. It is of course your choice if you want to take the risk both financially and to your reputation of going down that path.
.
.
.

The problem with the above that it presupposes you could get enough people to mount a challenge in court worth fighting over.  

I'm gonna guess that when push comes to shove your little community couldn't scrape enough funds together to engage and retain an attorney.  Because in the end whoever buys it out could just roll over and relinquish it sticking you all with the legal bill

In fact that's pretty obvious considering that NO ONE bothered to get a legal opinion on whether the whole Karmashares, llc thing was legally offering its security (it wasn't and that's NOT due to a change in the IRS treatment of Cryptocurrencies as Kosmost would want you to believe -- it has everything to do with SEC rules around the solicitation of unregistered securities to an unsophisticated investor -- that's what MY attorney told me when I ask him to look into the claims)

Prior Art for the most part applies to Patent Law -- Trademark's are different animals -- at least Kosmost understood that part of it -- it's why we have things like Dove soap and Dove chocolate bars.

Doesn't matter to me any way -- all I said was it was the only thing that had the MOST value -- I can probably go out tomorrow and Trademark "KarmaPoints" if I wanted to.

I have no delusions of grandeur -- it's why I build communities and hire people smarter than me.

You all have a ton of baggage and my guess is that you're going to continue to experience attrition in your fanbase as your miners flee to more profitable coinbases -- because that's what smart money does all over the world in all kinds of assets.

Fundamentally unless you start treating this more like a business and less like a hobby that's all it will ever be is a hobby...IMHO...

-dvd

PS: And leave the personal attacks at the door -- I have a minor philosophy from a Catholic college so I'm pretty sure I understand the sentiment you were implying originally...

I think you are a little confused.
firstly there were no personal attacks against you.. I only spoke about karmashares.. and was warning you not to purchase assets which were legally contestable to save you problems in the future.. people may not be suing now but if anyone makes 100 million dollars from one of those assets. just watch and see how many people come out of the woodwork with legal action.

if you want to get involved in a legal quagmire and have your reputation tainted by someone who did make written commitments to a community and then attempted to sell assets owned by members of the community (ie Karmashares members) then that is your prerogative.

you said yourself that you are not even part of the karmashares so why would you take that as a personal attack?

secondly.. you said yourself that you are not financially or emotionally invested in this coin. this should be reason enough for anyone who is personally invested in the coin to question your motives and do due diligence before handing you the keys to anything.

thirdly.. what makes you so sure that you are the only person who can build a strong development team? all that you have said so far would indicate that you are simply looking to profit from a bad situation.. I do not begrudge you for this.. most people are doing the same thing.. but lets not pretend this is out of altruism when clearly you have no stake in the community or economy.

fourthly.. why are you telling me how legally questionable Karmashares is? I have been skeptical of Karmashares since day one.. hence why I do not own and never did own any Karmashares nor was I ever a part of Karmashares... you are the one attempting to buy its assets? so you are the one who should exercise caution for your own legal protection. I do not know how many times I have to say this.. but I will try again.. Karmashares and Karma are not the same thing. just because Kosmost was project lead for the development work on the client and CEO of Karmashares LLC does not make him sole owner with exclusive rights to the IP of both entities.

I agree, the way Karmashares was operated was questionable, the way it was shut down was even more questionable.. this makes the sale and purchase of those assets yet even more questionable... so why get defensive when questions are being asked?

fifthly.. what point is there to trying to take control of the Karma trademarks? they were open sourced so anyone can use them legally without fear of prosecution.. its exactly the same as the bitcoin logo is protected by the MIT license along with everything else that is incorporated into the karma client... why would anyone want to trademark that when its not enforceable due to prior art and documented proof that it was produced for and by an open source project..

maybe you should seek more legal advice before continuing risk your reputation and money purchasing assets where the ownership is very clearly in contested.

if you went to buy a used car would you simply hand money over to the guy driving it? or would you check who actually owned it first? are you going to just look at some registration papers OR actually check that there are no outstanding debts and disputers relating to the car?

[Beachguy]

......We have dented our beautiful name in the cryptoworld. Outsiders might not give us credit but everyone knows what Karma coin is. They know it belongs to us.

Always remember....its far easier to rebuild a brand than build a new one.
Karma has a name and value in the crypto world .

[Alphi]

......We have dented our beautiful name in the cryptoworld. Outsiders might not give us credit but everyone knows what Karma coin is. They know it belongs to us.

Always remember....its far easier to rebuild a brand than build a new one.
Karma has a name and value in the crypto world .

I agree with both of you 100%

no single person is directly responsible for the recent problems and so we all share the responsibility for the rebuilding effort.

unfortunately we saw this happen with the first developer Karmagood.. everyone expected him to to do everything and then he spat the dummy and went into self destruct mode when things didn't go his way.
then along came Kosmost... again everyone expected him to do most of the work... and when things weren't going his way he too spat the dummy and went into self destruct mode.

I don't want the same thing to happen to the next guy with "good intentions" that thinks that rebuilding a community is an easy task and that is why I will be pushing for a more decentralized and inclusive decision making process. its just too much for one guy to handle on their own.. even if they do claim to be filthy rich and have a strong team backing them. this is why I never put my hand up as a leader.

I am working on some new ideas on how we can achieve this but I wont say too much about it until it is implemented. I do not want to raise peoples expectations and have them dashed yet again.
so if you believe in karma then don't sell out, just stick around. It may take many months for us to have useful platforms and services in place.. but it will happen because this community has some of the most dedicated members I have ever seen.

[Alphi]

It is not so hard to decide what is good for Karma. Give to East Karmacoin.me and let him deal with the community - this is the most important job and no one else can do it better. Give bitwho the wallet, mroysa - accounts for Facebook and other social sites, spread the Karma trademark and its attributes between several members, so no person can have it solely from now on. Continue the research on penetrating Asia or whatsoever. Bring back online lill, handover it to several members and share your vision and thoughts about how development should continue until full integration with Karma. If TheLittleDuke is so good in business development, put back online Wespond, Hireplex, eyeQ and let him decide how to handle and develop these services or just one of them, but without having the technical ownership. Bring back improved PoC model. If you are scared of SEC or something else, than give the core technical ownership to somebody, who is not under the authority of SEC. Why so hard to understand? Like bitwho said, in crypto 99% of the people will continue to see their help only in holding coins. And IMO this will never change. No matter what. Crypto is not a regular business like the others. Your thoughts of new business models don`t apply here. By now you all should understand that people here doesn`t get excited by someone who is willing to give them another 8-5 job without clear and visible results. Two few get passionate to develop crypto coin as their baby and project for life. But when you find someone give him the chance and support and all the trust you have. East, bitwho, Alphi, socoban, altcoingood are the people we should trust. And I don't need my MBA or certificate for stock exchange broker to know this. Spread the services between many persons and let them collaborate. And I don`t see why all the rush. Because of several trolls? The bigger the community, the more ugly trolls will come. So don`t make any promises and continue slowly. This is obviously the best for Karma ATM. Can it be done and how? It is for you to decide. Maybe sacrifice some initial investments I suppose. Maybe these investments will be returned at later stage. Who knows...

+1 and well said...

[bitwho]

Thelittleduke:

Could you please share with us your intention to help us with taking over the services and trademarks?  what do you intend to do with them? Why the desire to step in? What would that mean to us if you take them over? Do you accept the fact that whiles in your possession they will be still owned by the whole community. Will you have difficulty releasing them back to us after months of you keeping them?

You linkin profile shows you have had tons of experience in management and are a software engineer. Both of these are strong assets that would benefit karma. But we never talked with you and the community knows nothing of your intentions.

We also do not know if you understands our community as well. This community likes to speculate a lot and does little to join those who are trying to help. We do not want to fall into an other category where services are closed due to lack of involvement from karmanians.

i can't blame them as most them think by buying and holding is the help we need on their parts. Which is an insane illusion as they buy and hold for their own interest. This is a general consensus on whole crypto world. We are having difficult time trying to break this mentality. Therefore who ever is willing to take over the services will have to understand it will be a long journey and they will probably get stuck picking up the cost. We will try out best to collect funds to reimburse you but it will not happen easily. So you must understand what you're walking into

Bitwho-

Thank you for engaging in a thoughtful and open dialogue.  I appreciate and welcome the questions and will do my best to answer them.

I've been writing code since just pre Apple ][+ days.  I've written compilers and runtime systems, hold or contributed to several patents, and lately since getting an MBA have been doing a tour of duty through a variety of industries.  I built an ISP from just three analog phone lines (1 x 28.8k upstream and 2 x 14.4k for customers!) up through six acquisitions and one merger consolidating five data centers and taking in services via OC-12.  Including filing and becoming a licensed CLEC to offer VOIP services in MN using a Class-5 Metaswitch.  I still code to this day, preferring Python and a little PHP when necessary.

Fundamentally there is only so much hashpower chasing too many coins.  We are already seeing the very beginning of a consolidation with the AUXPOW work the Dogecoin team put in place to allow it to be merge mined along with Litecoin.  The ASICS have sucked most of the fun out of mining.  The future of crypto is in value-added services.

[/quote]

My interest in Karma is multi-fold.  I like the name and the marketing side of it since day one.  My own personal philosophy centers on Buddhism so the whole "karmic debt / karmic boomerang" thing appeals to me.

it has a great name i agree. what got me hooked to it. I had 200 mill coin and could sell for 5-10 satoshi. at that time bitcoin price was high.

I took over the Givecoin when it was on the verge of falling apart as well -- partially because we had made an investment into the coinbase by acquiring shares on the open market Bittrex (we currently hold about 15% of all mined coins to date) -- as the reserve / internal currency for https://doabitofgood.com

it is always good to see someone trying to help a community in trouble. How is that going? Is there a main ANN forums i can read more about this coin and its community? Could you share the amount of time you spend with Givecoin ? If you decide to get involved with Karma how much time are you willing to dedicate to it?

There is a natural synergy between the two stated purposes as well as a potential to merge mine the two -- or even combine them in a new better coin.  As of right now we are still listed on Bittrex in a disabled status while we fix our broken KGW and migrate to a Proof of Stake based model which is more compatible we believe with the tenants around doing good.

Karma coin's community will have the last word but i can tell that we are not looking to combine any coin or change our name. We are that spoiled child that would like to keep all the toys. Karma is Karma, so as long as we are capable i am sure we would be able to work together mission wise.  Not sure if we are looking into any kind of merge mining. I believe the miners are a part of the coin system that works as a reward. Miners, just like investors , their core interest is to profit. therefore i believe we should not cater to them anymore. Instead i believe we should focus on increasing real life value to karma so then the miners will have no choice but to mine us. hence you can see why i do not find it appealing to merge mine with any coin and create more miners in the system. 

Again i am not saying we do not need the miners securing our network.  because we do. But our method should not be by begging miners to join by making it easier for them to mine us but by making it unappealing for them. We do this by focusing our increasing marketcap volume and secure our network.

even at this low price volume there are miner munching off our coin. they do not care about our network security they are mining us because there is buy volume in the market. close the market and you will find 10 miners mining us after.

Our REALLY exciting prospect at Strength in Numbers Foundation is the http://www.idcoins.org -- a coinbase for Identity and Reputation -- Karma could be a good related side chain to act as the stand in for the Reputation component.

i read the pdf. could you elaborate some more on this. it seems like this is the main reason you have for karma coin. Please try to share as much of your vision on how karma with infuse with this.

As for the community I have a pretty good idea of what motivates them.  I have also watched with great dismay at the lack of sophistication and understanding of basic market mechanics.  Fundamentally Karma is a 'product' and a product needs a consumer base.  You cannot push the product onto the market and expect it to reward you.  You cannot impact the price by throwing more hashpower at it.

agreed. the faster we start forming bussiness type services and go after all kinds of target the better we are. only marketcap value will mature karma from an hoby coin into a real used service.

As for reimbursement, I don't need any.  I've been mining since 2010 time frame and in fact built the worlds first OCTO-BAMT system.  I have more than enough crypto-assets of my own to leverage and I have grown and sold several businesses.

nothing's free : )  But based on how you will reveal your plans with karma we will understand better what you mean by "As for reimbursement, I don't need any"

What I WOULD want of the community is a bunch of "Karma Ambassadors" -- people who do outreach and build the community by getting more people involved.  Introducing our coins to groups who could use it -- create donations to get them involved -- because fundamentally we need to EXPAND the economy and create more velocity in the transactions.

gonna be frank with you here. It will be hard to find tons and "Karma Ambassodors" Not a lot of people here will be easy to ask to fulfill tasks. But i have faith in the facebook community. What we do have is few people who come here every day and try to push people to do stuff.

Personally I would like to see the coinbase have some sensical and rational number of coins -- 92 Billion is pretty unbelievable and very few people can get their head wrapped around a number that large.

Also, I would strongly suggest the base move to a more POS based reward system for those that want to hoard coins.

Take marketing number like 10 Billion -- closer to the world population and socialize a "karma for everybody" approach.

I agree that 92 bill is too many coins. Strongly do not agree that POS is the answer. I have made lenghty post why POS is not a solution. Also it is still buggy and creates risk of %51 when everyone rushes their coin into one address such as an exchange service.

i wont mind going over why Pow >POS but i wont do it now.

It could become the coinbase of reputation -- but I think the current holders have to give up the fantasy that its going to magically increase in value because they want it to.

  again you will need to give me an simple explanation on how you see Karma implemented here. The PDF had only 27 pages.

I never thought Bitcoin was the "be all end all" of crypto currencies but rather a stepping stone to something greater.  I don't think Karma is the end game either.  We can create something that actually captures peoples hearts and minds and remove as much of the taint of "get rich quick" odor so many alts suffer from.  

The coins that are going to survive have to offer something other than a currency.  Bitcoin already holds that designation.  Whatever advantage Litecoin held with a faster confirmation and a "harder algorithm" as all but evaporated.  The only thing X11,X13 et al offers is a way to "re-level the playing field for new entrants" -- nothing is immune from being turned into an ASIC.  What we need are new models of reward like "proof of storage" and others.

I hope that helps to explain my background and interest as well as some of what's top of mind for me and Karma.

Let me know what else you'd like to know?

-dvd

Sorry it took so long to reply to this post. thank you for taking the time to answer my question. as you can see i got some more.


At this time i would encourage anyone to help out by sharing your thoughts. Remember Karma is not mines , your or his. Karma is everyone and no ones!  everyone has an equal right to it.

-Who

[TheLittleDuke]

I think you are a little confused.

I'm pretty sure you're the one who is confused.  The 'messianic' reference was the substance of the personal attack comment, suggesting mussolini et al.  What a side show...

The fact that you spent more time somehow trying to focus on that versus the substance of my offer is telling enough about what kind of person you are.

I'm not sure what your relationship is with the coinbase but I can tell you from an outside perspective that you appear to be so busy thinking of what you want to say next that you clearly have not taken the time to look at let alone reflect on the substance of my offer.  Its really off-putting from an outside perspective.

Do you speak for your tribe?  Does your tribe acknowledge it?

Because while you claim not to be shareholder you do seem to be under the delusion that people placing cryptocurrency on deposit in another computer system ACTUALLY qualifies as an investment in an LLC that somehow ENTITLES them to dictate how its assets are disposed of -- especially since those deposits were ostensibly refunded.  One could argue that they afford no more rights and assigns than a depositor in a bank.

Whatever sense of community rules and normative behavior that you think I need to follow for some grand fidelity test to prove worthiness have got you where you are today.  I have no interest in perpetuating that sham.

In the end if Kosmost owns the USPTO trademark and my lawyer confirms its validity then I will entertain entering into a transaction to acquire it.   Which means I will have clear title in the US to use it for crypto currency purposes.  You might want to think long and hard about that.  Because if its not me, it will certainly be someone else...

Back to business!

What again, generally, is the ADVANTAGE your coinbase offers people?  Please remind everyone here why it is they are spending money on electricity to support this coinbase?  Because if in the end they think they are going to somehow get rich off of it, then I would suggest your community is not in this for the right reasons.

And YOU sir are a reflection of the company you keep.

-dvd

PS: Say what you will about Bitcoin -- but at least it has "governance" and board that treats it with respect.  Karma might as well be the conch shell on an island run by the Lord of the Flies...
 

[easteagle13]

Those who would rather move forward and upward... join us in trello and telegram. KEYWORDS: organized, real time, action.

[TheLittleDuke]

alright guys. you're all doing it all over again. Attacking , swearing , talking loud and barely listening.

LittleDuke,

I appreciate your comments. I too was the one who went to Kosmost , shawn and alex 6 months back and gave them a long speech how we should not treat the coin as a coin. I gave them the idea to open a company and use karma as the mean of payment for this company. It doesnt take much to understand that any Cryptocoin is born with strong ties to the miners community and the investors community. Its root as so deep , that no mater how much everyone believes in it. once they see a %20 drop in price then its massive sell panic mode. I told the team we should open an company , but not like a "foundation" like the bitcoin foundation but a for profit company that will be supported by karma investors at first but then become bigger and much more involved. Karma as a coin can grow so much. it has boundaries. but when we tie into a business then we can grow that business from any angle. Create a world with karma as its currencies

i come here every day and i am amazed of how much the Karma blockchain can be used for. So shocked to see every new coin community always worrying about features to boost up the Satoshi prices. So short sighted.

We only see the block chain as a coin. that has values. Not like an empty envelope that you can pack any kind of information inside it. We only care how much is the stamp and the fees.

Visionaries like etherium dev wants to use their "block" chain so marry people. The blockchain are the ultimate solution to trust-less services. its like you signing a document and its forever engraved in a stone by every single person in the network.

I personally see karma coin as a kick started system , investing in services that are trying to do something good for the world. I see my karma address become my future identity. I see my address linked up to my phone and unlock my car door the moment i come closer to my car. I see my hashed karma address as my bank account where i can buy anything.  he beautiful thing about this is that it is open source so anyone can use it for anything.

Bitcoin is not a coin, bitcoin is a platform. Karma coin is not money, Karma is a platform. they are both worth as much as people are willing to believe on the chances that they will become something

Its been months now and we have yet to find one thing to use karma for. One! We haven't even begin to get one thing going on for karma. It's so stressful watch this beautiful opportunity fo to waste. The blockchain go to waste. The network of people this coin brought together go to waste.

We have dented our beautiful name in the cryptoworld. Outsiders might not give us credit but everyone knows what Karma coin is. They know it belongs to us.

we are too busy playing blaming game. What has happened should not be forgotten but we should not let it hold us back. We learned some harsh lesson recently and we have to be more careful in future.

One of the lesson learned is that Karma is an open source and everyone is entitled to give it a shot.

While i agree that karma need to be seen as business model, i am starting to see that karma should not be only that. Last time we got lost and for past few months it was only about the LLC , lill.com and POC. While the LLC was created in good will it ended up being the life or karma and when this project failed it looked like karma coin failed. We must learn from this mistakes and treat any other business entrepreneurs as a side project of karma.

Every single one of them should be welcomed by all of us and helped to reach their endgoals. How ever we will have to remind our self the true legion is to the blockchain.

So let not be hostile to anyone that takes more then two seconds to share their ideas for our coin. Especially at a time where we are lacking activity from the most karmanians.

+5 -- so sensible and well thought out.  I read through it three times and wished everyone everywhere was this reasonable, thoughtful, and contemplative.

YOU are what makes BCT so awesome!!

My only comment as a point of clarification is that is that Karma should be treated with the same rigor and decorum as a business would -- not that it should be run as a for-profit business -- but that it should be subject to the same kinds of controls and measured outputs for success.

I believe that Karma could become the "currency of reputation" -- that is a practical utility for the coinbase...

Otherwise, you're more than welcome anytime over on the Givecoin thread

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=741714.0

-dvd

[Alphi]

I'm pretty sure you're the one who is confused.  The 'messianic' reference was the substance of the personal attack comment, suggesting mussolini et al.  What a side show...

this is complete nonsense I did not even refer to mussolini.. quote me if you want but don't make things up.. I never said that you claimed to be a messiah. I just said that your statement that atheists cant be Messianic is completely untrue, the world is full of examples of Messianic atheists. And what did you do? take that as a personal insult LOL...

The fact that you spent more time somehow trying to focus on that versus the substance of my offer is telling enough about what kind of person you are.

Round and round we go.. I told you I am not a karmashares holder so I cannot contemplate your offer so why do you keep trying to ram some offer down my throat?

I'm not sure what your relationship is with the coinbase but I can tell you from an outside perspective that you appear to be so busy thinking of what you want to say next that you clearly have not taken the time to look at let alone reflect on the substance of my offer.  Its really off-putting from an outside perspective.

again with the offer.. and again who do you think you are talking to? I am not kosmost I do not speak for him..  nobody is going to entertain your "offer" to buy the Karma trademarks because the only person who can is Kosmost. everyone else realizes that the trademarks for Karma were created by the community under open source license so they cant be sold.. so why should they entertain your offer?

nothing stops you from using the Karma trademarks or the network. In fact I did welcome you to do that but you seem fixated on negotiating a deal with me that I am not in any position to negotiate...
I will repeat in case you missed it.. If you want to use the Karma trademarks and build your own karma based services NOTHING IS STOPPING YOU AND NOBODY WILL STOP YOU the only time you will get any kind of resistance is if you try to take control of the project and start forcing changes on the community that they do not agree with.

This is the open source, consensus model that all crypto coins use.. Karma is no different. use the logo or not.. it's  your choice.. I cant stop you and you cant stop me.

Do you speak for your tribe?  Does your tribe acknowledge it?

I speak only for myself I do not have a tribe.. should I be taking that as some kind of insult the way you did? lol.. seriously if you don't even know who you are dealing with then why come in to a random thread and make such an offer?

Because while you claim not to be shareholder you do seem to be under the delusion that people placing cryptocurrency on deposit in another computer system ACTUALLY qualifies as an investment in an LLC
that somehow ENTITLES them to dictate how its assets are disposed of -- especially since those deposits were ostensibly refunded.  One could argue that they afford no more rights and assigns than a depositor in a bank.

you need to take this up with kosmost he is the one who collected money under those claims I was not a part of it.. I can only tell you what is written in common law which supersedes most other laws. and that is very clearly that if you put something in writing then it is a written contract. what he is doing now could be a breach of contract so I recommend you discuss that with your lawyer BEFORE making the claim that people who invested in Karmashares have no rights..

Whatever sense of community rules and normative behavior that you think I need to follow for some grand fidelity test to prove worthiness have got you where you are today.  I have no interest in perpetuating that sham.

then become part of the community and stop trying to own it.. its really not that difficult is it?

In the end if Kosmost owns the USPTO trademark and my lawyer confirms its validity then I will entertain entering into a transaction to acquire it.   Which means I will have clear title in the US to use it for crypto currency purposes.  You might want to think long and hard about that.  Because if its not me, it will certainly be someone else...

Again I have already explained this to you but you seem not to understand. the trademarks were issued along with the source code under MIT license.. you can use it without purchasing it. even if you did purchase it you would not be able force other people to stop using it.. so its pointless for you to keep making circular arguments like "oh Karmashares isn't legitimate so I can buy anything I want from them.." that is a very silly argument indeed and devoid of any logic... if Karmashares is not a legitimate company then its assets and IP are owned by the people who created them i.e. the community.. the Name, Logo and Trademarks of Karma were not created by Kosmost so he had no right to trademark them in his own name if that is what he did.

I have invested in patent stocks for years and let me tell you that you don't need to go to court to have a patent or trademark invalidated.. all you need to do is file an application with the USPTO and prove that the person who registered it was not the creator of the art or invention. which I have already posted the proof of.
if you want to buy a trademark that is as shaky as that then good luck to you. It just goes to show how poor your business acumen really is.

What again, generally, is the ADVANTAGE your coinbase offers people?  Please remind everyone here why it is they are spending money on electricity to support this coinbase?  Because if in the end they think they are going to somehow get rich off of it, then I would suggest your community is not in this for the right reasons.

I do not feel the need to repeat myself endlessly. All of my posts are for public viewing in the history of this thread and the previous one. my position is well known and if you were here long enough to find out then you would also know my position and thoughts on the subject.
the fact that you seem to want to argue with me and force me to sell you something I do not own clearly demonstrates that you clearly did not do your homework before making the offer.

PS: Say what you will about Bitcoin -- but at least it has "governance" and board that treats it with respect.  Karma might as well be the conch shell on an island run by the Lord of the Flies...

please go to a bitcoin board and start claiming that you are going to buy the trademarks to bitcoin from a less than reputable source. lets see if you get the warm and fuzzy reception you expect.



just FYI incase you dont understand what an MIT license is:

The MIT License (MIT)

Copyright (c) <year> <copyright holders>

Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a copy
of this software and associated documentation files (the "Software"), to deal
in the Software without restriction, including without limitation the rights
to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, sublicense, and/or sell
copies of the Software, and to permit persons to whom the Software is
furnished to do so, subject to the following conditions:

The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in
all copies or substantial portions of the Software.

this includes any Names and Artwork used in the software because they are part of the software.


and here is the process for cancelling a trademark

http://www.inta.org/TrademarkBasics/FactSheets/Pages/CancellationofaRegisteredTrademarkFactSheet.aspx

[joymagic]

Kindly test drive the site that I prepared. This will be my proposed site as our new face for the public. Please PROOFREAD for spelling, grammatical, technical and factual errors.

Send a message to me when you found one.

Then tell me, should we retain the old site, or should we use this new site?

Please be kind with your judgment. 



http://easteagle13.wix.com/karma

it's so happy to see Karma got reborn step by step ,the price of Karma is stable after the big dump (but we no need care about the price at all ) . the website design is wonderful. it's more professional ,I know some other contents should be added into the site to make it more substantial . things got beter !

[joymagic]

BTW , in fact , months ago , I have already completely translated the web sites into Chinese , http://karmashares.com/ and http://karmacoin.me/  (only a few of sentences I am not sure) , but recently , things changed a lot , So I decide to not publish them , I still want to provide help here , when we got new undated site upload ,I'll be happy to do the translate work .

[easteagle13]

BTW , in fact , months ago , I have already completely translated the web sites into Chinese , http://karmashares.com/ and http://karmacoin.me/  (only a few of sentences I am not sure) , but recently , things changed a lot , So I decide to not publish them , I still want to provide help here , when we got new undated site upload ,I'll be happy to do the translate work .

Thanks for the positive vibe. Thanks for actually helping in all ways you can..you donate, you translate and you post positive things...MAY YOUR TRIBE INCREASE IN KARMA!

[altcoingood]

I agree 100% with everything Alphi is talking about.