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Author Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency  (Read 4633343 times)
AlexGR
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May 21, 2014, 12:51:28 AM
 #2921

The answer you might get from Monero developers is they wished to put a fair cryptonote based currency in the spotlight for everyone to enjoy, because the technology has promise.

Yeah, altruism is always the main motive of clone coins...

With the exception of Bitcoin (and DOGE which was made for the lulz), I don't think many people created coins for the good of humanity.

Regardless of motivations, a cryptocurrency with privacy protections is essential to the survival of any kind of human dignity and freedom.  BCN premine was indecent.  Monero fixed that crime.  I am glad of it, for myself, and for my progeny.

We don't disagree on the need for anonymous currencies. But stealing other's work to capitalize on them and then claim superiority as you throw the original devs from the cliff is indecent / a "crime" too.

You can't correct scam mentality (80% premine) with scam mentality (taking the entire code that others created and saying "oh, yeah, that works great and we fixed the premine").

The ultimate form of programming and hacking, is the programming of the human mind. Few know how the mind is programmed and even fewer know how they are self-programming themselves every day through their actions.

For every action there is a subconscious programming routine that is performed automatically: When you steal, your subconscious observes the stealing act and says "Since I'm stealing, my creative capacities are obviously not very good - otherwise I'd be able to manage on my own... the fact that I'm stealing proves that I have inadequate creative capacities". This is programming the subconscious of the thief into a very strong self-affirmation of limitation and parasitism. Nothing good can come out of that. This dynamic is inescapable in human affairs and it will blow up in some way, at some time.

Even so, Bytecoin (and to a lesser degree clones) is/are useful so that they can up the anonymity game in terms of technology. The market is sufficiently large where everyone can fit in. I estimate that even if 1% to 10% of the transparent market goes anonymous, we'll see 70-700mn market cap for anonymous coins (with current BTC prises). If BTC prices multiply we can also multiply the prior projection.
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Xenopus
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May 21, 2014, 01:04:19 AM
 #2922

Regarding the logo contest, I am happy to say that with the present changes and clarifications, I think things are a-okay.

Thank you for addressing the problem and, in my view at least, fixing it.

BTC: 17mV6VCMnbYbrhJfsxCEZm9y3CL1qb6jFC
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May 21, 2014, 01:10:39 AM
 #2923

Is there anything unique about Monero? It seems to have just added cryptonote and that's it. What's to stop 50 coins doing the same and having better marketing?

There are already 4 Cryptonote coins: https://cryptonote.org/coins.php

There seems to be a big danger of dilution without some unique developments.

Fantomcoin: http://fantomcoin.org/

Quazarcoin: http://quazarcoin.org/

Aren't they just the same as Monero?
Keyboard-Mash
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May 21, 2014, 01:10:47 AM
 #2924

Anyone care to visualize a turd being polished?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYJwen53cII

Actually, I like this video. Thanks for linking it.

It correctly describes the same type of work and tremendous effort that will undoubtedly be required for this protocol to succeed.

I can only hope that both CyptoNote, and any CN coin (MRO, BCN or any other CN coin included) can put themselves in a light that invites such fantastic minds, and excellent people, as the BitCoin protocol has done.

It's not a light undertaking, what we have laying ahead of us, and if there ever was to be some form of mutual recognition that could possibly be fostered by the BTC core community .. it wouldn't be wasted on this protocol.

CryptoNote has handed us everything, for which we owe them everything. Let's hope that their efforts will not be squandered.

Let's start first by paying them back by providing the same allure that BitCoin held and continues to hold to this day. The market can wait for another day or year or forever. There's something fascinating here, and that's good enough for me right now.

AlexGR
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May 21, 2014, 01:15:42 AM
 #2925

The entire idea of free and open source is ripping off someone else's hard work. That's why I would never release code I'm proud of under a license like the GPL.

Nobody said you can't rip-off stuff. You can do it alright, but you'll face the consequences of self-limitation into parasitic mentality. That's especially true when you do it in a way where you aren't really taking something to improve it technically, but rather cloning it and re-branding it to achieve your own financial advantage.

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Your idea of what the subconscious says, however, is ridiculous. You're trying to say that everyone's subconscious mind believes stealing means that the thief is pathetic, which is absurd.

It's not my "idea". It's how the mind operates. Ask, for example, a hypnotist about presuppositions, and how he uses them to slip the affirmations and suggestions he wants directly to the subconscious.

The human mind produces dual thoughts, not single thoughts. For every thought or action, there is an implied thought. The implied thought tends to go unnoticed (unless one is trained to observe them - which is not difficult, it just takes time) and when it goes unnoticed it then becomes subconscious programming since it goes down uncontested.

Humans are taught that if they can do evil and get away with it they are ok. They will never get away from their own implied self-programming that says "if I harmed others to advance myself, then apparently I'm unable to advance myself on my own powers -> therefore I have no powers". Self-sabotaging. If there is anything like "karma" or "hell" or "divine punishment", this is it. But it's not performed by some higher power. It's performed by us.

Be virtuous and expand yourself. Be a scam and limit yourself.
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May 21, 2014, 01:25:13 AM
 #2926

We've contributed a massive amount to the infrastructure of the coin so far, enough to get recognition from cryptonote, including optimizing their hashing algorithm by an order of magnitude, creating open source pool software, and pushing several commits correcting issues with the coin that eventually were merged into the ByteCoin master. We also assisted some exchange operators in helping to support the coin.

To say that has no value is a bit silly... We've been working alongside the ByteCoin devs to improve both coins substantially.

Code:
XMR: 44GBHzv6ZyQdJkjqZje6KLZ3xSyN1hBSFAnLP6EAqJtCRVzMzZmeXTC2AHKDS9aEDTRKmo6a6o9r9j86pYfhCWDkKjbtcns
Johnny Mnemonic
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May 21, 2014, 01:29:42 AM
 #2927

The Bytecoin devs, for whatever reason, have been dicking around for quite some time. Completely ignoring the "premine", many of us were simply getting tired of waiting for things to happen. We were also tired of the unresponsiveness and cryptic bullshit on part of the BCN developers. This by itself is what started talks of forking. It's quite amusing how BCN followers have suddenly appeared out of nowhere and BCN work has sprung to life now that MRO has gained traction.
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May 21, 2014, 01:42:17 AM
 #2928

We've contributed a massive amount to the infrastructure of the coin so far, enough to get recognition from cryptonote, including optimizing their hashing algorithm by an order of magnitude, creating open source pool software, and pushing several commits correcting issues with the coin that eventually were merged into the ByteCoin master. We also assisted some exchange operators in helping to support the coin.

To say that has no value is a bit silly... We've been working alongside the ByteCoin devs to improve both coins substantially.

I recognize that the work you've done is nothing trivial. It's more than I could possibly hope to contribute in a lifetime. Right now I'm here to try calm some egos by keeping my mind set on the call for this.

My worry is that I come here and we're fighting with DarkCoin supporters and there's active FUD from a public voice on the Poloniex trollbox that people should be buying this instead, from a public voice nonetheless.

It's not a marketcap that will be able to pay for the type of minds necessary for this to go the distance. You have to know that, as you've certainly been privy to creating something fantastic yourself with MC2. My point is that, I don't think these are the type of people that can be bribed with just a few coins and a high marketcap.

My worries are not with you at all, and never will be. You've more than proven yourself. I worry for anyone that comes here and immediately thinks this is a pump and dump and then leaves with those thoughts, or has nothing better to contribute than petty misunderstandings that get blown out of proportion. Specifically I worry most when people like gmaxwell come by and are left with no choice but to skip right over because of misunderstandings or misrepresentation.
smooth
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May 21, 2014, 01:49:32 AM
 #2929

Is there anything unique about Monero? It seems to have just added cryptonote and that's it. What's to stop 50 coins doing the same and having better marketing?

There are already 4 Cryptonote coins: https://cryptonote.org/coins.php

There seems to be a big danger of dilution without some unique developments.

Fantomcoin: http://fantomcoin.org/

Quazarcoin: http://quazarcoin.org/

Aren't they just the same as Monero?

Slight differences but not enough to bother with in my opinion. Compared to those you are better off just sticking with Monero at this point. I'd say that even if I weren't involved with Monero, and I have said so with respect to other shitcoins. However, you should make your own judgement about whether their changes are worthwhile and likely to get any kind of traction.
sirsmokesalot
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May 21, 2014, 01:53:37 AM
 #2930

The entire idea of free and open source is ripping off someone else's hard work. That's why I would never release code I'm proud of under a license like the GPL.

Nobody said you can't rip-off stuff. You can do it alright, but you'll face the consequences of self-limitation into parasitic mentality. That's especially true when you do it in a way where you aren't really taking something to improve it technically, but rather cloning it and re-branding it to achieve your own financial advantage.

Quote
Your idea of what the subconscious says, however, is ridiculous. You're trying to say that everyone's subconscious mind believes stealing means that the thief is pathetic, which is absurd.

It's not my "idea". It's how the mind operates. Ask, for example, a hypnotist about presuppositions, and how he uses them to slip the affirmations and suggestions he wants directly to the subconscious.

The human mind produces dual thoughts, not single thoughts. For every thought or action, there is an implied thought. The implied thought tends to go unnoticed (unless one is trained to observe them - which is not difficult, it just takes time) and when it goes unnoticed it then becomes subconscious programming since it goes down uncontested.

Humans are taught that if they can do evil and get away with it they are ok. They will never get away from their own implied self-programming that says "if I harmed others to advance myself, then apparently I'm unable to advance myself on my own powers -> therefore I have no powers". Self-sabotaging. If there is anything like "karma" or "hell" or "divine punishment", this is it. But it's not performed by some higher power. It's performed by us.

Be virtuous and expand yourself. Be a scam and limit yourself.

Thankfully  Cheesy

My favorite part of the whole thing is that those people are often so oblivious as to what is taking place. Sorta fun to watch.

We can't grow when we won't criticize ourselves!
-->>>Unobtanium - The crypto you keep!<<<--
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May 21, 2014, 01:54:47 AM
 #2931

The Bytecoin devs, for whatever reason, have been dicking around for quite some time. Completely ignoring the "premine", many of us were simply getting tired of waiting for things to happen. We were also tired of the unresponsiveness and cryptic bullshit on part of the BCN developers. This by itself is what started talks of forking. It's quite amusing how BCN followers have suddenly appeared out of nowhere and BCN work has sprung to life now that MRO has gained traction.

Every time I hear of the total amount of coins mined in Bytecoin, a nice quote comes to mind:

Quote from: CryptoNote
Cryptonote isn't a cult.
It isn't a government, it isn't banks.
It isn't Satoshi Nakamoto.
...

Their reference to Satoshi Nakamoto has been attributed to the million or so BTC that is supposedly held. My own understanding of this quote is that we have no Satoshi here. There is no axe over our heads waiting to self-destruct everything on one random day in the future.

That won't happen here, and that's fundamentally why I support this coin over an alternative (well, that plus Tacotime and everyone else jumping on board Smiley ). No one man, or small group, has that many coins. Simple as that for me. No need to come up with fancy names for it.
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May 21, 2014, 01:56:07 AM
 #2932

HOLY FORK!

http://coinmarketcap.com/#BTC
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May 21, 2014, 01:57:16 AM
 #2933

Finally!  Smiley

If they added BCN right now it would be laughably in the top 5.  Roll Eyes
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May 21, 2014, 02:00:26 AM
 #2934


Oh good!  Why isn't it in 2nd place yet?  Grin
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May 21, 2014, 02:02:40 AM
 #2935

FORK ME!!

smooth
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May 21, 2014, 02:03:33 AM
 #2936

The entire idea of free and open source is ripping off someone else's hard work. That's why I would never release code I'm proud of under a license like the GPL.

Nobody said you can't rip-off stuff. You can do it alright, but you'll face the consequences of self-limitation into parasitic mentality. That's especially true when you do it in a way where you aren't really taking something to improve it technically, but rather cloning it and re-branding it to achieve your own financial advantage.

Form whatever opinions you like but don't be so presumptuous as to claim to know other people's motivations. You don't.

I can't speak for anyone else but in my case there is no financial advantage. I was already making a lot of money mining bytecoin, both keeping some of the coins I mined and selling some. (In fact this was the first clue it was a scam, because a coin in widespread adoption with stores and services using it and thousands of nodes on the network, as claimed, should not have been that easy to mine.) If bytecoin had been successful in terms of adoption, I would have done extremely well. In fact I still have some of those coins, and I'd still do extremely well if bytecoin somehow managed to make it. When Monero started, and for quite some time (really until the recent value jump), my BCN holdings dwarfed by MRO holdings.

What I saw from BCN was not just a premine but also an extremely dishonest scam to try to "sell" the premine as being something other than what it was. I also saw what was very likely an organized campaign of sock puppets and FUD intended to block the community from figuring out what was actually going on and putting a stop to it. That rubbed me the wrong way and encouraged me to focus my efforts elsewhere, even though initially that was to my own personal financial disadvantage.

I'm funny that way. I will speak out even when it is to my disadvantage when I feel something is just not right. Perhaps you have seen some of that here.

As I have said before, the bytecoin developers are welcome here. If they want to develop the technology they are free to do so, here, without a hidden 80% premine. This was not an attempt to steal anything from them, it was just a relaunch of an otherwise good coin without a premine scam, nothing more. They can have everything they had with BCN, except 150 billion coins stashed away somewhere. If they choose not to participate, then we will continue to build a team of interested and highly qualified developers and move on without them.

Polycoin
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May 21, 2014, 02:20:05 AM
 #2937

FORK ME!!



LAME, that's only 2million marketcap in USD. Trying to make it seem big.

THIS coin is just a fork, nothing Innovative about it, besides being a fork/clone of Bytecoin. Join the Bytecoin community instead, but don't entertain forks...


Polycoin Troopers, Assemble!
tifozi
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May 21, 2014, 02:22:38 AM
 #2938


Can someone ask the folks behind coinmarketcap to also add https://cryptonote.exchange.to/market/mro/btc

240 BTC volume there is not being accounted for.
AlexGR
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May 21, 2014, 02:23:53 AM
 #2939

We've contributed a massive amount to the infrastructure of the coin so far, enough to get recognition from cryptonote, including optimizing their hashing algorithm by an order of magnitude, creating open source pool software, and pushing several commits correcting issues with the coin that eventually were merged into the ByteCoin master. We also assisted some exchange operators in helping to support the coin.

I don't think that mining software (clients, pools), or supporting exchanges to add monero "count" as coin-tech development. Bugfixes, more so.

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If they added BCN right now it would be laughably in the top 5.  Roll Eyes

It would be filtered out due to premine. So no top5.

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As I have said before, the bytecoin developers are welcome here. If they want to develop the technology they are free to do so, here, without a hidden 80% premine. This was not an attempt to steal anything from them, it was just a relaunch of an otherwise good coin without a premine scam, nothing more.

The problem is that you telling them what to do, and where to be, when they've made the coin is ...problematic. You can't put them in a box and tell them these are the rules you'll play with. They made the coin. Don't you get it? They have immense power compared to clones because they can relaunch tomorrow a new coin with cryptonote tech V2 or something and pull the carpet underneath the clones big time. It will be like obsoleting "v1" and rendering it useless. It's their nuke option. They had two years to think of problems in their implementation, saying "ah, if we made the coin now, we'd do that in a different way". The potential for improvement should be significant for a reboot or a new coin by the same devs.

As I see it, having MRO take everything and upsetting the BCN devs by capitalizing on their work can backfire big time as they might "nuke" the clones and go with a V2 which heavily improves on V1. And then it's game over.

Personally I'm on the Dark train, but have some MROs just in case - keeping in mind the above. I like the prospects of the anonymous market in general, and I am holding more than one anon coins so as to be properly positioned and hedged, but the fact that MROs fortune is dependent on what BCN developers will do (because they are the innovators and first movers) is unsettling for escalating any investment.
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May 21, 2014, 02:24:28 AM
 #2940


LAME, that's only 2million marketcap in USD. Trying to make it seem big.

THIS coin is just a fork, nothing Innovative about it, besides being a fork/clone of Bytecoin. Join the Bytecoin community instead, but don't entertain forks...



That's pretty rude guy. There's a lot of people here trying to get things done. Who are you, Mr. Satoshi?

Please don't pick on us, this isn't 4chan. I'm sorry nobody can find you a reason to like us (we've tried a lot), but maybe you'll reconsider in the future Sad
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