Bitcoin Forum
June 28, 2024, 09:16:39 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 ... 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 [57] 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 »
  Print  
Author Topic: [ANN][MOTO] Motocoin  (Read 178172 times)
jioy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 500


View Profile
July 15, 2014, 04:15:49 PM
 #1121

the motocoin game looks like interesting very much~
HunterMinerCrafter
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 434
Merit: 250


View Profile
July 15, 2014, 04:24:07 PM
 #1122

proof of concept form? What is this, never heard of it, lol...

I just mean that MOTO is the "proof of concept" for a human mined, proof-of-play secured coin.  It is the first such coin, so it serves as an existence proof that the concept can be implemented.

Quote
a pity different gaming modes couldn't have been created for this coin,

They still could, but they are likely to be variants on the original challenge and using the same physics/rules in the engine.

Using multiple different games with entirely different rule sets and engines on the same chain, in a proof-of-play mechanism, would be fraught with complications.

Quote
I'm sure others will do it with other criteria, though Smiley

Sure, I'm sure that over time the game genres and their rule sets applied for both human-mining and proof-of-play systems will grow increasingly varied and complex.  Things like HUC and MOTO are just the first movers in this space, they are assuredly not the last word.

I'm sketching out an idea for a fork of MOTO with an entirely different game (though still "noisy map plus physics" based, to retain comparable security in the proof function) using a challenge that scales on a point accumulation requirement instead of a time requirement.  Such a setup does not seem to be subject to the same warp issues that arise from the existence of the "three clocks" that MOTO has.

Youghoor
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1036
Merit: 275


View Profile
July 15, 2014, 04:25:37 PM
 #1123

the motocoin game looks like interesting very much~

motocoin game is a game changer.
apesconcert
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 83
Merit: 10


View Profile
July 15, 2014, 04:57:11 PM
 #1124

Selling 17k MOTO for 1 BTC or nearest offer. PM me if interested
HunterMinerCrafter
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 434
Merit: 250


View Profile
July 15, 2014, 05:08:07 PM
 #1125

Selling 17k MOTO for 1 BTC or nearest offer. PM me if interested

I'll bid 0.0000005 per.  You're only about one order of magnitude above market, so I'll only bid one order below.

Seriously, this sort of post should be in the marketplace section, anyway, shouldn't it?  Maybe you'll have better luck there, but I doubt it.
Nyterax
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 98
Merit: 10


View Profile WWW
July 16, 2014, 08:08:35 AM
 #1126

I'm sketching out an idea for a fork of MOTO with an entirely different game (though still "noisy map plus physics" based, to retain comparable security in the proof function) using a challenge that scales on a point accumulation requirement instead of a time requirement.  Such a setup does not seem to be subject to the same warp issues that arise from the existence of the "three clocks" that MOTO has.
This has me interested...

@Nyterax
BTC: 1McgGk69g82epdnxAdDQfMSXtUygZfL4vZ
franckuestein
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1960
Merit: 1130


Truth will out!


View Profile WWW
July 16, 2014, 05:16:30 PM
 #1127

the motocoin game looks like interesting very much~

motocoin game is a game changer.

Motocoin game it's impossible  Cheesy Cheesy
Have you minted any block? xD

[ AVAILABLE SIGNATURE SPACE ]
BayAreaCoins
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3920
Merit: 1248


Owner at AltQuick.com & FreeBitcoins.com


View Profile WWW
July 16, 2014, 09:55:21 PM
 #1128

  • ≈40 million coins are to be generated during the first 12 years and ≈200,000 coins per year after.
  • 450K premine.

This right here was enough to steer me clear of this project.

Cap-less coins are pointless IMO & premined is... eh you know.

I've watched this one since the start because I actively invest in Huntercoin and I kinda figured this is how this project would turn out.

Best of luck though anyone who is continuing on this project.


I think if you are looking to game and earn coins HUC is probably still the best option that I know of.

https://AltQuick.com/exchange/ - Trade altcoins & Bitcoin Testnet coins with real Bitcoin. Fast, private, and easy!
https://FreeBitcoins.com/faucet/ - Load your AltQuick exchange account with free Bitcoins & Testnet every 10 minutes.
HunterMinerCrafter
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 434
Merit: 250


View Profile
July 17, 2014, 01:22:34 AM
 #1129

Cap-less coins are pointless IMO & premined is... eh you know.

At least the premine appears to have gotten quickly redistributed.

As for the cap, we've already covered that earlier in the thread.  As things stand now, production will continue indefinitely (so that there is always some incentive to mine a new block, instead of everyone waiting around for tx fees to come in) but that doesn't necessarily mean that the coin will not maintain sufficient scarcity.  The production curve does drop off quite a bit and the long tail produces relatively little on anything but absurdly long time-frames.  I don't see it as a major problem (compared to some other infinite-issuance coins, particularly) but I understand the concerns.

In any case, you do certainly seem to be in agreement with most on the matter.

I think eventually one of two things will happen.  Either some "sink" offering a reason to destroy MOTO will be introduced, or a cap will be added but in such a way that there always remain some incentive to mine.  Personally I'd prefer to see the latter, and I have a few ideas on how this could be done.

Quote
I've watched this one since the start because I actively invest in Huntercoin and I kinda figured this is how this project would turn out.

I think in some ways MOTO represents even more of an innovation than HUC.  It is really a shame that it has been surrounded by so much concern, conflict, disagreement, and drama so far.

Quote
Best of luck though anyone who is continuing on this project.

Some of us are very dedicated, and in for the long haul.

Quote
I think if you are looking to game and earn coins HUC is probably still the best option that I know of.

At the moment this is somewhat undeniable.  It is really not just the best option, but the only option.  I don't expect that situation to persist for long, though.  Wink

HunterMinerCrafter
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 434
Merit: 250


View Profile
July 17, 2014, 02:26:33 AM
 #1130

You (and other bot operators) can do some experiments to determine how required time to find solution depends on target time, then we can construct some function that is good approximation of this dependency and use it instead of 1/t.

The more I am looking at and thinking about the "cumulative work warp" attack that you've brought up the more I am realizing that this will likely be a necessary step in any resolution for it.

I'll be working on establishing an approximation.
HunterMinerCrafter
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 434
Merit: 250


View Profile
July 17, 2014, 07:39:49 PM
 #1131

when would this cap be introduced, roughly vaguely in a year or two, three, five-10?

This could mean two things, "when will the cap be introduced?" or "when would the subsidy stop?" and I'm not sure which you intend to ask.

Introduced - Like any other change, this can only come down to "whenever the network agrees to do so."
Stopped - I don't image that we would change the subsidy curve itself, only change to let it fall to zero when it normally would if the specialized conditional to keep it from doing so had never been introduced.

Quote
Also once the 'server side' technical hooplah has been sorted,

There is no server side.

Quote
will you really not try and work on at least 3 or four games to introduce variety and allure,

We really will not.  While it seems likely that we may introduce an option for different variants on the original MOTO challenge (maybe a race or an obstacle course) I don't think it is anyone's intent to try to use any different games.  Doing so would likely very much complicate the mining process, in the best case.

Other games with other "engines" behind them will be other coins.  

Quote
i mean you are now doing cryptocurrency work but once it could be promoted as something viable outside the ordinary crypto enthusiast spheres, other subcultures may find a game that you can play for money enjoyable, highly so, again Im referring to maybe kids anywhere but korea or japan those people love them games man...

Everyone everywhere loves games, but I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.

Quote
so that once the server side probs are resolved, a 'client side' problem solving schema has to be devised to unfold the sails and let the ship sail, otherwise it will just be something in cryptoenthusiast's sphere of knowledge. Its gotta get out there somehow, become part of some subculture of gamers and cellphone toting kids who wanna earn money playing games, outside cryptocurrency speculatrs and investors spheres of interest. You know, enter into other domains to make it grow - a sort of bridge into the world of cryptos for gameplayers who would play these games for actual money. You know a silly little game you sit on the train and play on the way home, and make some money on? If it caught on it could be huge...

You have to replace "it" with "they/them" in this statement.  One offering alone could never accomplish that.

Quote
I do think that at least two more games would really be nice(more enjoyable gameplay, better graphics), even if it adds complexity.

It isn't just a matter of "adds complexity" it is a matter of "might (even accidentally) entirely invalidate the legitimacy of the mining process."  This would be a devastating outcome, and there seems to me to be no good reason to even risk it when a new game can be much more readily made as a new network instead.

Quote
Just my opinion on 'client side' / marketing aspects, "viralability" yada yada.

These aspects can be approached without needing multiple games added to the same chain.

Quote
I wonder if this coin will ever become worth anything though.  a pity, a brilliant idea that will never be promoted properly with a variety of nice games to play and look at, and any marketing.

Promotion/Marketing will resume in due time.  Right now there is no sense in wasting time/energy (or any other resource) on marketing when we have much more pressing matters to attend to.

Quote
I can see this getting lost in the back end, and it being forsaken....

We have several people in the community who are all very interested in seeing this experiment through to the end, whatever end that may be.  It will not be "forsaken" unless the chain halts, and even then I'm sure everything possible would be attempted to keep the chain hashing.  If the network were going to "just give up" it probably would've happened by now.  Instead we see the opposite, the committed participants are just making more and more commitment every day.  (Hash rate appears to be way up this week, with some new participants in mining!)

Quote
i really doubt people will find the current game anything worth wanting to compete at ,

Why?  What improvements do you think would make it a more appealing competition?

Quote
even if you can make a coupla cents that are worth somewhat more than your local yen...

Personally, I think that given the option between games that cost money, games that are free with advertisements, or games that pay you anything at all to play (even just "a coupla cents") the decision will not be a hard one for most.

(Assuming all three options are perceived as "fun" anyway.)

Quote
Really, from a player's perspective, its not a fun game... ... really really isn't lol...

Again, what would make it more fun?  Don't answer "add more/different game types" because this isn't something that makes the game more fun, it is something that makes other games.  What specific changes to the current MOTO challenge would make it more enjoyable?

Quote
just honesty from me... no offense WilliamLie2, but still brilliant technocery from you and HunterMinerCrafter!

Honesty is awesome, but we need actionable detail to be able to do much about anything!  You can't just say "it isn't fun, fix it" because we really do not know what "fun" means to you, so we can't know what to fix.  Fun is highly subjective.

In any case, we really can not afford to approach any sort of change until after the infrastructural issues are all addressed.
Gargo
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 585
Merit: 251



View Profile
July 18, 2014, 06:51:04 AM
 #1132

Selling 17k MOTO for 1 BTC or nearest offer. PM me if interested

I'll bid 0.0000005 per.  You're only about one order of magnitude above market, so I'll only bid one order below.

Seriously, this sort of post should be in the marketplace section, anyway, shouldn't it?  Maybe you'll have better luck there, but I doubt it.
funny. It is easier for him to sell via the marker)).
e1ghtSpace
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1526
Merit: 1001


Crypto since 2014


View Profile WWW
July 21, 2014, 10:57:27 AM
 #1133

This thread has been quiet for quite some time.
So, how is development going? Have you worked anything out with the dev?
Can you give us an eta for the bigger map to stop bots. It would be good if instead of the timer changing, the map size also changes with the time making fall-through maps harder to find (stopping some bots and giving humans a chance).
wood7
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 322
Merit: 250



View Profile
July 21, 2014, 11:00:39 AM
 #1134

the coin game are so funny,lol
Gargo
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 585
Merit: 251



View Profile
July 23, 2014, 04:14:24 AM
 #1135

DELETE THIS FUCKING SCAM COINADER.

They stole my ~2k MOTO and disappeared.
e1ghtSpace
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1526
Merit: 1001


Crypto since 2014


View Profile WWW
July 23, 2014, 04:46:13 AM
 #1136

DELETE THIS FUCKING SCAM COINADER.

They stole my ~2k MOTO and disappeared.
Ouch! That has got to suck so much.
We better remove it. Dev?
BTCat
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1960
Merit: 1010



View Profile
July 23, 2014, 09:23:16 AM
 #1137

DELETE THIS FUCKING SCAM COINADER.

They stole my ~2k MOTO and disappeared.
Ouch! That has got to suck so much.
We better remove it. Dev?

Well MOTO is dying anyways, for 5 dollar its not an expensive lesson. There's more reports of Coinader being scam, don't use it.
MOTO is failing simply because the devs are one of the few or may be the only ones that can mine this coin with bots, in simple words it now belongs in catagory 98% premine-dump scheme, pretending to try and solve the issues. Another scenario is they might have had a solution against bots ready from the get go but simply wait to implement it to create another lifecycle. Be carefull to buy into this.
Nyterax
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 98
Merit: 10


View Profile WWW
July 23, 2014, 09:54:51 AM
 #1138

DELETE THIS FUCKING SCAM COINADER.

They stole my ~2k MOTO and disappeared.
Ouch! That has got to suck so much.
We better remove it. Dev?

Well MOTO is dying anyways, for 5 dollar its not an expensive lesson. There's more reports of Coinader being scam, don't use it.
MOTO is failing simply because the devs are one of the few or may be the only ones that can mine this coin with bots, in simple words it now belongs in catagory 98% premine-dump scheme, pretending to try and solve the issues. Another scenario is they might have had a solution against bots ready from the get go but simply wait to implement it to create another lifecycle. Be carefull to buy into this.
To me it looks like solving the issues is complicated, there is no precedent for this in crypto world, Motocoin is the first to attempt pure proof-of-play implementation. HunterMinerCrafter has been more transparent about his motives than 99% of the developers I've seen around. This coin is far from over. Yes, it will probably always be a bot-coding competition. Anyone who thinks computers are ever gonna be long-term inferior to humans in solving of any deterministic problems is, well, delusional. There is no permanent solution, so you gotta take Moto for what it is - and improve its current premise to attract more talented AI engineers... Instead of crying over what it cannot realistically ever be. But you seem to have zero understanding about how cryptocurrencies and blockchains work, so it's probably futile to try and explain the rationale.

@Nyterax
BTC: 1McgGk69g82epdnxAdDQfMSXtUygZfL4vZ
HunterMinerCrafter
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 434
Merit: 250


View Profile
July 23, 2014, 12:17:46 PM
 #1139

This thread has been quiet for quite some time.

2-3 days is not really long.  This secondary warp issue Will brought up is a big one, but we're closing in on a solution.  (More details to follow.)

Quote
So, how is development going? Have you worked anything out with the dev?

Will has given me the same access rights that he has on all project resources, so the project can have continuity independent of him if necessary.  As other developers come on board we can also further replicate that access, so that the project can not end with the loss of any subset of developers.  Now we just need more developers! XD

Quote
Can you give us an eta for the bigger map to stop bots.

No, since this is not something anyone is working on yet.  While I am all for the idea of a non-fixed map size, actually implementing such a change would be somewhat difficult.  For the time being, I think that we are both going to be focused on the more critical matter of closing both warp attack vectors.

Quote
It would be good if instead of the timer changing, the map size also changes with the time making fall-through maps harder to find (stopping some bots and giving humans a chance).

You are not wrong, but this is only a stop-gap solution to restoring human mining. I'm sure we would all like to see solutions that can work to restore human mining perpetually over time.


HunterMinerCrafter
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 434
Merit: 250


View Profile
July 23, 2014, 12:25:20 PM
 #1140

DELETE THIS FUCKING SCAM COINADER.

They stole my ~2k MOTO and disappeared.
Ouch! That has got to suck so much.
We better remove it. Dev?

It does appear that coinader has closed and absconded with any funds.  Seems like someone went through an awful lot of work to steal a few MOTO.  (It was the only coin that ever had anything on their books, really!)

I hope nobody lost too much.  I think I'm out about $100 in combined btc and moto value.  All well.

I am attempting to contact them through a couple of means, but I am not holding my breath.  We'll see about removing their posts if they do not come back with an explanation quickly.

Pages: « 1 ... 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 [57] 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!