[ANN][MOTO] Motocoin

[unamis76]

I've been reading about this coin for quite some time now, and finally decided to try it. When I saw pictures I immediately remembered Elasto Mania, played it a lot back then, and this is actually very similar, even in the gameplay.

I never played "Elma" but I've heard some people say that the Moto game is almost a perfect replica of the mechanics, and some other people tell me that it is just a little "off."

Played for already hour and a half today, and got 60 coins. This bot is actually quite aggressive sometimes.

And other times it doesn't even seem to be trying at all.  I think the bot operator is doing some strange sort of throttling on his bots, but I'm still not clear on the intent.

That being said, I want this bot haha

Me too, if for no other reason than just to measure the work effort it produces in order to adjust our work credit curve to a better fit.

Anyways, I see this coin is slowly being revamped. It has a very interesting concept, so I will keep an eye on it and mine some coins every now an then. Dev's, keep up the good work

"Revamped" is an interesting way to put it.

I just have a doubt... What are map filters? When I click on the filter, the game hangs...

Map filters were briefly introduced to try to give some of the bots' advantage back to humans, but it was a bit "too little too late" at the time.  Since the new map requirements were introduced, the map filters now only ever produce invalid maps, and should not be used.  In the most recent build (on github, website link is not updated yet, I'll take care of that today) they have been disabled.  In a future build I'll include some new, basic map filters that do work with the new rules.

Yes, it's just a tiny bit off, especially when it comes to steering and the animation on the direction change. But everything is very nicely done, it's a nice copy. or better, it's a nice tribute

As for the bot, exactly... Sometimes it doesn't really seem to be trying, and it takes a lot of time to change blocks.

Thank you for the clarification about the filters

[popolite11]

the bot is not working anymore or is there is any problem

[HunterMinerCrafter]

The bot seems to be inactive right now.

Then how come some blocks are solved in less than 5 seconds?

The bot seems to have a few "modes" that it switches between.  For lack of a better explanation we'll call these "fast mode," "slow mode," and "offline."

Most blocks go by with the bot in "fast mode" where the bot solves in seconds consistently, averaging about 7-8 seconds per block.  However, it intermittently goes into "slow mode" at times, taking at least 15-30 seconds, or more, to solve most blocks.  This is not just "block to block variance" it seems, but distinct behaviors of the bot.

Then there are the hours-long stretches where it is in "offline" mode.  In this mode the bot is usually just silent entirely, but I have seen what appears to be it spitting out an occasional odd block during these times.  (Maybe it is just relaying a block someone else submits, hard to say for sure with as much as the bot does look like a human in its play.  Maybe it is even the bot operator playing by hand directly.)

At the moment we seem to be in a particularly long stretch of offline mode, so mine away while "the getting is good" as they say.

[HunterMinerCrafter]

Yes, it's just a tiny bit off, especially when it comes to steering and the animation on the direction change.

This pretty much echos the most common sentiment I've heard.

From what (little) I understand of it, the steering differences felt by players come from some very small differences in the ground interaction physics.  In "free fall" there should be practically no difference, but when interacting with the ground surface there is.  The difference seems like it should be small enough to go un-noticed, but several people have brought it up.

I think the animation direction change is mostly a psychological effect, from what I can tell.  In both games the direction "flip" is actually "instant" but in Elma there is a small transition animation which seems to give the player the sense that the flip takes some time.  In Moto the flip is displayed as instantly as it occurs.  You're not the first person to mention a feeling of difference, but I don't think there actually is one!

Another commonly mentioned aspect is the gravity.  A couple of players have said this feels off, with one referreing to it being like Elma "with moon gravity."  This one I don't understand much at all, as the gravity should be one of the most identical things between the two implementations of the physics.  I'm inclined to think this is just some subjective bias, particularly because it does not seem to come up as often as the "handling" of the bike.

But everything is very nicely done, it's a nice copy. or better, it's a nice tribute

In the future we may take some more elements from Elma and/or XMoto to integrate, as further tribute.

As for the bot, exactly... Sometimes it doesn't really seem to be trying, and it takes a lot of time to change blocks.

Thank you for the clarification about the filters

As I strive to be a more "obviously dedicated" developer (compared to other alt devs, I guess) I do my best to answer any question raised.  Please feel encouraged to ask more!

[unamis76]

Yes, I see... turned the game back on and blocks are taking much longer to solve, bot is probably offline now

[HunterMinerCrafter]

Website updated with new download link and changed "100 coin" to "20 coin" for reward

[Vz]

I Notice that the block wich i mined with my hands have nonce    ~ 4375   -   15 000

was it lower in the past?? I remember the small nonces when we start fight with bots.. what the secret?

[HunterMinerCrafter]

I Notice that the block wich i mined with my hands have nonce    ~ 4375   -   15 000

was it lower in the past?? I remember the small nonces when we start fight with bots.. what the secret?

Nonce iteration still works similarly to before, but now you will have to iterate significantly more maps to find one that meets both the path length criteria and the anti-warp hash collision criteria.  The slower map generation becomes due to the anti-warp the larger human's nonce values will be, on average.

[HunterMinerCrafter]

Yes, I see... turned the game back on and blocks are taking much longer to solve, bot is probably offline now

We are doing a slightly better job of keeping hash-rates up than before, once everyone realizes that the bot is down anyway.

If we can keep hash rate consistently up whenever the bot is "down", the upcoming fork goes cleanly (c-cex and block explorer are both updated and ready to fork, now), and the bot continues to run as it has been today I think we will be nearly "out of the woods" on these hash-rate problems, and can start to approach exchanges and merchants.  (That is a lot of big caveats, so don't start holding your breath just yet, but things are looking more positive!)

[e1ghtSpace]

Yes, it's just a tiny bit off, especially when it comes to steering and the animation on the direction change.

Another commonly mentioned aspect is the gravity.  A couple of players have said this feels off, with one referreing to it being like Elma "with moon gravity."  This one I don't understand much at all, as the gravity should be one of the most identical things between the two implementations of the physics.  I'm inclined to think this is just some subjective bias, particularly because it does not seem to come up as often as the "handling" of the bike.

I think that that person thinks there is moon gravity simply because the game is in slow motion. I'm sure if they turned up the speed of the game they would think differently. I was really surprised at how much gravity there actually was when I turned up the speed.

[WilliamLie2]

The gravity is the same as in elastomania but default game speed probably is not. I will check it later.

[MotoLevi]

Elasto Mania is indeed closer to lunar gravity than earth's. I remember some guys calculated it to around 1-2m/s². Anyway, the main differences in this game compared to Elasto Mania are, not taking extra features into consideration:

• Accelerating in the air doesn't cause angular momentum.
• The head is dead centered. There is no difference if you turn the head to avoid obstacles.
• The breaks have little to no grip.
• Missing faster spin. (Alovolt)
• Great angular momentum can be cancelled out with one spin in the opposite direction.

[Vz]

Elasto Mania is indeed closer to lunar gravity than earth's. I remember some guys calculated it to around 1-2m/s². Anyway, the main differences in this game compared to Elasto Mania are, not taking extra features into consideration:

• Accelerating in the air doesn't cause angular momentum.
• The head is dead centered. There is no difference if you turn the head to avoid obstacles.
• The breaks have little to no grip.
• Missing faster spin. (Alovolt)
• Great angular momentum can be cancelled out with one spin in the opposite direction.

DON'T CHANGE ANYTHING in the physical engine!

Just know about difference, but not change in future.. well, or at least I am against)

[WilliamLie2]

Elma freefall acceleration is 10m/s² but it runs in slow motion.
Time coefficient in Elma is 0.4368 while default time coefficient in motogame is 0.5 thus motogame is a little faster by default.
For you reference, wheel radius is 0.4m.

EDIT: if you want to measure freefall acceleration in real seconds than it is 0.190794m/s² in elma and 0.25m/s² in motogame.

[HunterMinerCrafter]

Elasto Mania is indeed closer to lunar gravity than earth's. I remember some guys calculated it to around 1-2m/s². Anyway, the main differences in this game compared to Elasto Mania are, not taking extra features into consideration:

• Accelerating in the air doesn't cause angular momentum.
• The head is dead centered. There is no difference if you turn the head to avoid obstacles.
• The breaks have little to no grip.
• Missing faster spin. (Alovolt)
• Great angular momentum can be cancelled out with one spin in the opposite direction.

DON'T CHANGE ANYTHING in the physical engine!

Just know about difference, but not change in future.. well, or at least I am against)

The only thing I'd seriously consider changing from this list is the brakes.  Even that is unlikely.  While I had previously intended to do a little more, I don't think I will unless there is some significant outcry for something specific.

[WilliamLie2]

• Accelerating in the air doesn't cause angular momentum.

Elma physics is more realistic here. When I was converting physics from floating-point to fixed precision this one was particulary hard so I just removed it because it is very small feature.

• The head is dead centered. There is no difference if you turn the head to avoid obstacles.

Head position is very differently computed in elma and motogame. Elma has some strange and sophiscated logic for it while in motogame it is similar to wheel positions computation.

• The breaks have little to no grip.

Either I messed up something or it is a result of approximations that are used for wheel-ground collisions computations. It is noticeable not only while braking but also during acceleration.

• Great angular momentum can be cancelled out with one spin in the opposite direction.

This is very unphysical behaviour in elma.

[HunterMinerCrafter]

OMG. Nobody will update it in time. Make it at least at 200000.

It shouldn't matter much, as long as you upgrade before transacting?

EDIT: How about we split the difference and say 198000? I'd have to restart builds.

We should have gone with my first instinct and done block 196000!  Hindsight is 20/20.

Nearly to the fork now, just over 150 blocks to go.  We are now into what will be used for the look-back period for the first "faster" anti-warp re-target.

[HunterMinerCrafter]

Let's try this out!

I will give 2k Motocoin to each address that mines the five blocks 197998 to 198002.

A small 10k bounty on moving this thing along. 

[Vz]

OMG. Nobody will update it in time. Make it at least at 200000.

It shouldn't matter much, as long as you upgrade before transacting?

EDIT: How about we split the difference and say 198000? I'd have to restart builds.

We should have gone with my first instinct and done block 196000!  Hindsight is 20/20.

Nearly to the fork now, just over 150 blocks to go.  We are now into what will be used for the look-back period for the first "faster" anti-warp re-target.

NoOne expect such suddenly bot defeat.. it happend at 197000 but not at 196000.. maybe i wrong.. i cannot see the real time graph
EDIT: I mean that early than 196000 the bot was very fast.. but after 197000 it become slower and slower.. and now he is very slow too)


WOW! 2k moto!.. I accept that!

[Sir Bitcoin]

I'm all over this. Mining coins now!

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