[ANN] SilkCoin | New Wallet | NOW on MintPal / Cryptsy | FULL POS

[komodovpn]

Once the real features start rolling in over the next 2-3 weeks the price will start going back up again. I don't think SC will drop much more than what it's at now, it is already quite undervalued.

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[bluepixie]

I agree that 4,5% is a big unintented premine but what your story seems to miss is that half of the premine has already been spend on bountys.

I find this extremely hard to believe. However, even if that is the case, that isn't a very prudent way to distribute 2% of a currency's total supply. Combined with the remainder of the premine and the distribution system in general there are fundamental flaws here that will limit the SilkCoin ceiling considerably. Even if the eco-system is actually produced, you have to remember it could easily be reproduced by a coin with superior distribution and design. Personally, I see too many flaws in any coin that becomes PoS so quickly after a brief PoW window due to the extremely lopsided distribution. That being said, we have seen Blackcoin overcome this seemingly negative aspect despite not truly achieving long-term success yet by most standards. I believe the issue here is that it is primarily the same group of people interested in SilkCoin; the smart play would still be destroying a portion of the premine and focusing more time and energy on getting the word out elsewhere vs continuing to primarily contribute to this thread on a single forum full of the very people already interested in the coin. With the reduced premine, less marketing effort can be spent on defending this negative aspect of the coin and the confusion surrounding it (and the PoW adjustments) - it will only continue to create problems for you. I believe I have sufficiently covered what I wanted to cover; not looking to rain on the parade or create additional friction here - I was asked to look into SilkCoin and post my assessment and I believe I have sufficiently covered what needed to be covered. I've been at this a long time, I've been through ups/downs, created and managed my own coin, and been faced with almost every possible situation. My general trading experience goes back over a decade. I strongly believe something needs to be done to slow the slide and even more needs to be done to reverse it. If you continue down this same path, SilkCoin will fail; that would be unfortunate because the last thing we need are more failed altcoins.

Maybe there could be a 1% destruction of the premine and then a development fund set in place. A Donation address that people can give to, to help promote Silk coin. Maybe give 3 diffrent promotion options for people to donate too. Lets say you want 2FA donate silk to this add...  or chance to winning a mining RIG by trading SILK (oculus promotion) donate to this add... OR facebook giveaway... whatever

[bholzer]

Really it's not worth worrying about.  The fact is they weren't being deceptive because at launch premine really was the 2%.  It only looks like 4% after the decrease in coins.  Doing that not only doubled their premine, but everyone else in this forum that mined before the change as well!

So why complain? we all mined 2x the % that we thought...it's all relative.  Dev is doing a kick ass job and deserves even more than that.  Just my 2 cents though.

Right - I'm sure it was great for the people that got in early. That also means it was bad for distribution. I'm just telling you why most serious traders, such as myself, will never hold SilkCoin in their portfolio as long as there was over a 4% premine. This statistic, while of no concern to you (or others like you) from a fundamental standpoint, will always negatively impact the value. My point is: it matters even if you don't care. Traders with deep pockets will never look past that premine no matter what. Fair or not, I can't say - I'm just telling you how it is. This doesn't mean the coin has no future; it simply lowers the ceiling on potential value (potentially so far it squashes everybody inside).

[Intrepid101]

the premine IS an issue but it doesn't have to be. 25k sc from me if remainder is destroyed. we could raise a few hundred k within 24hrs with more donations. then multipool 1% going to dev fund for long term support. even donation button in wallet if eco system a success

[yeyangzuo]

Also, keep in mind that some members of the dev team don't speak English as their first language....

this  has distinguishing feature,I am ery interested in, nice future for sure.

[bluepixie]

Really it's not worth worrying about.  The fact is they weren't being deceptive because at launch premine really was the 2%.  It only looks like 4% after the decrease in coins.  Doing that not only doubled their premine, but everyone else in this forum that mined before the change as well!

So why complain? we all mined 2x the % that we thought...it's all relative.  Dev is doing a kick ass job and deserves even more than that.  Just my 2 cents though.

Right - I'm sure it was great for the people that got in early. That also means it was bad for distribution. I'm just telling you why most serious traders, such as myself, will never hold SilkCoin in their portfolio as long as there was over a 4% premine. This statistic, while of no concern to you (or others like you) from a fundamental standpoint, will always negatively impact the value. My point is: it matters even if you don't care. Traders with deep pockets will never look past that premine no matter what. Fair or not, I can't say - I'm just telling you how it is. This doesn't mean the coin has no future; it simply lowers the ceiling on potential value (potentially so far it squashes everybody inside).

Would you invest if the premine was destroyed and a developer fund set up?

[WhiteNotWright]

the premine IS an issue but it doesn't have to be. 25k sc from me if remainder is destroyed. we could raise a few hundred k within 24hrs with more donations. then multipool 1% going to dev fund for long term support. even donation button in wallet if eco system a success

I think this issue is squashed. The community has agreed to allow the existing premine without modification. However, I am not an official part of that team, just repeating what has been stated. I did think the original was 2%, then was modified, but thought modification to 4%, not 4.5% (not sure where I got 4%).

[stormia]

I guess these coins are also "low class" and will never make it because they have huge premines/IPOs:

http://maidsafe.net/
http://www.swarmcorp.com/
http://www.siacoin.com/
http://www.crypti.me/

[WhiteNotWright]

In reference to some statements floating around, we (us investor types - non technical) understand the premine and we understand risk verse reward and cautious investments. Deep pockets take calculated risks and mitigate loses by doing extensive analysis and assessment on all futures. A man doesn't jump into a lake head first without looking below for rocks and ensure the climate is correct. If they find the coin has legs (regardless of what we think) the money will come swiftly and if quality product and service will sustain will continue to prop and support culture. Otherwise, they will just move on to something else that has a specific market niche. This coin offers that promise and should it deliver you won't be questioning a 4.5% premine. That will be the last thing on your mind.

[fusi0n]

I would like to summarize the criticism as far as I have seen it:



1. B instead of S as first letter.

Silkcoin has responded and said it is something that does not really matter and that they did not feel warrants so much attention or concern.
Cryptodevil has said that he worries this means that there are bigger problems that are overlooked.

My take on it:
Silkcoin team have been focused on the bigger picture and ignoring some details (some spelling and grammar in the wallet also) and I can see the B thing slipping in.
I have warned them that the devil is in the details and that people will respond with concern like Cryptodevil did.
I also submitted an edited version of some of the info included in the wallet.
This they implemented in the next update. This acceptance of feedback and response to the community was very much appreciated.

An actual error did appear in one of the earlier wallet updates (having to do with block number causing a crash in wallet) this was immediately responded to and fixed by the team.



2. The White Paper.

Various people have been unhappy with the layout of the white paper and that it did not seem to come from someone used to writing them.
Silkcoin has responded and said that this is in fact true, they are not used to writing documents like these. There was also time pressure and they wanted to deliver the outline of the plan with the ecosystem. An updated version is promised.

My take on it:
This is also in keeping with (1), the dev team is working on the bigger picture and letting things that seem inconsequential slide by. Unfortunately for people who do not understand the technical vision, all they have to go on is the impression of professionalism that is given by fancy websites and flawless papers.
I prefer that they delivered a white paper as promised rather than delayed it to polish it.
I feel it contained the ideas as they said it would.
Nobody has yet really delivered any negative comment on the actual content.



3. Silkcoin wallet is based on Blackcoin.

Silkcoin team have said this is true.

My take:
Who cares? Everything is based on other things. Blackcoin is based on Bitcoin etc etc etc.
If you see how many other wallets are now copying SC wallet and how accepting the devs are of that fact
(and confident that SC will stay ahead because of ongoing innovation),
then you realize that they are happy with open source, using and referencing other wallets and ideas.

Of note: cryptodevil was worried that the B/S substitution happened directly because of this fact in contrast to the response from the dev
Cryptodevil also says he was asked to stop posting negative things in the thread. (Please see the next point.)



4. The FUDstorm

There is convincing evidence that MEGAman/fat mike/gorilla jam posters are part of a group or sockpuppets of an account
that is delivering on a promise to derail the SC thread after failing to extort 0.5 BTC from the dev team.  
The dev team has responded calmly and carried on, which inspires confidence.
The concern is always that trolls manage to derail or anger the dev team enough that they withdraw,
this has happily not happened and in my opinion is why you need a team of dev rather than just one dev.

A new community self moderated thread has risen in response to the extortionFUD but there are problems with that as well.
Unfortunately the side effect of serious trolling is that it galvanizes the community and creates mindless yes-men who want to protect their investment.
This is not always positive and we need to be vigilant to this. Too much hype can kill something as effectively as too much FUD.

My take on it:
SC dev team have managed this as well as possible.
The problem is now that with the extortion, everyone is sensitized to criticism and wonder if negative comments are part of the same FUDteam.
Hopefully responses can be tailored to specific criticism (as in the Cryptodevil case) and not all criticism criticized for being critical.



5. The 4.5% premine

Initial premine was planned at 2% but there was lot of early pressure from community to halve the second POW payout and so give earlier investors more incentive.
The payout was halved, so dropping the total number of coins created and hence raising the % of premine.
There has been some in community asking for premine to be destroyed and some strong reactions against this.

The obvious concern with the premine is that devs could desert the initiative and sell off their share and so crash the price.
It is obvious that a lot of work has already gone into creating this coin and that a lot more work is planned.
I for one would hope that devs become rich from this venture but only after enriching the world by delivering innovation and creation.
The addresses containing the premine is public and movement of the funds can be watched.

My take:
I see a need for a dev fund. I don't see fundamental difference between 2% and 4.5%.
I hope the devs also bought or mined lots of SC on top of that fund.



TLDR:

Valid criticism to dev attention to detail but important things have always worked or been fixed immediately.
Some details have not worried the dev team but it does worry some in the community. (Community participation can help to fix details.)
There is ample evidence of dev team competency, just look at the wallet and the fact that others are now copying SC wallet.
There is a vision contained in white paper that could change wallet functionality.


Disclaimer:
I own some SC but not enough that I will be able to retire if it is $10 per SC.
(I plan to keep all of them until I can used them without turning into anything else.)
I am bullish on SC and think that it will increase in price.

Exactly what I wanted to say, but didn't have the time to write this out.  Good job.

Great summary. gj

[bholzer]

Really it's not worth worrying about.  The fact is they weren't being deceptive because at launch premine really was the 2%.  It only looks like 4% after the decrease in coins.  Doing that not only doubled their premine, but everyone else in this forum that mined before the change as well!

So why complain? we all mined 2x the % that we thought...it's all relative.  Dev is doing a kick ass job and deserves even more than that.  Just my 2 cents though.

Right - I'm sure it was great for the people that got in early. That also means it was bad for distribution. I'm just telling you why most serious traders, such as myself, will never hold SilkCoin in their portfolio as long as there was over a 4% premine. This statistic, while of no concern to you (or others like you) from a fundamental standpoint, will always negatively impact the value. My point is: it matters even if you don't care. Traders with deep pockets will never look past that premine no matter what. Fair or not, I can't say - I'm just telling you how it is. This doesn't mean the coin has no future; it simply lowers the ceiling on potential value (potentially so far it squashes everybody inside).

Would you invest if the premine was destroyed and a developer fund set up?

I would certainly consider it. All things being equal, I have to say this developer has already produced more than most. Also, this developer has clearly invested some time into things. There is zero evidence that he does not intend to see things through. The 4.5% premine is the only major issue I could never move past. 2% is the upper limit by my standards but I do believe it's fair for the developer to receive some level of compensation for their effort. Destroying a portion of the premine would also restore the premine to its original specifications - something I feel is extremely important as changing distribution post-launch compromises the integrity of a currency beyond what meets the eye. As I said previously, if I could do it all over again I would have likely opted to go with a small premine for my own coin instead of 0%. If you support this dev, support them with a fundraiser and eliminate the premine - it would help prevent the slide in value and in the end everybody would likely end up profiting more (including the dev). If the dev wants more coins and has some great plans they intend to follow through on, they would certainly have the option to buy as many as they like. A dev that believes in their coin and its future should be buying, correct? I know I own a lot of my own coin...

[fusi0n]

I don't see fundamental difference between 2% and 4.5%.

Really? I am not interested in contributing my opinion regarding SilkCoin in general as there already appears to be some quite vocal individuals on both sides... but I think most seasoned traders, regardless of sector, would consider the difference to be significant. While I disagree that the 4.5% premine alone spells "certain doom" for SilkCoin, as a certain individual claimed previously in this thread, I will say it stacks the deck for the developer (whom was already holding all of the cards). There are significant advantages to being a coin developer on their own. You control the release of information, you control the timeline, you know the progress of things, and you know your level of commitment (or lack thereof) in a way nobody else can. I have nothing against this coin specifically because I've been maintaining my own coin for over 5 months now and I have dealt with an inordinate level of FUD that also forced me to create a moderated thread; it's frustrating and not as rewarding as one would think. My coin had a 0% premine because I felt that a legitimate coin should not have a premine; looking back... I probably should have had a small premine to help compensate me for all of the effort that goes into it. My biggest concern with the 4.5% premine in this case is that, in addition to being quite large, it also wasn't the original specification. Yes - I understand members of the community voted to adjust the PoW period - but not everybody who mined or invested in SilkCoin felt the same way (or even saw/understood the poll). I believe that once a coin is launched, the distribution specifications need to remain the same throughout even if things under the hood continue to evolve. I guess I see no reason why the PoW phase would be cut short - why would that even be proposed? It was already so short that only a small group of people were even involved in the PoW portion - these are all things that are bad for a currency. Also, by changing the specifications of the coin post-launch, the integrity of the coin was compromised. It opened the door for confusion, outrage, and all of the other negative aspects of the situation you guys now find yourselves in. I believe the best thing that could be done for SilkCoin (and quite possibly the only chance there is to reverse the current slide in value) is to destroy a portion of the premine so that the premine remained consistent with the original specifications. I know if I had invested in SilkCoin under the impression that there was a 2% premine and then, by way of democratic process or not, the coin specifications changed and the premine rose to 4.5%, I would be pretty upset because my investment would have been significantly devalued (and possibly even fully at-risk). In the end, it doesn't matter what a handful of people think or if a handful of people don't care about the difference between 2% and 4.5% because most people do care. I have been trading cryptocurrency since 2011 and a significant portion of my net worth is in crypto (probably more than what is prudent, really) - the premine is too big of a chunk for people like me to consider making a play in SilkCoin (even a short-term play). To make matters even worse, the spec changed post-launch. I'm not anti-premine - I think it has its place - but destroying a chunk of the premine to take it down to the original 2% would go a long way in restoring the integrity of this coin and the developer. Perhaps you guys could set up a fundraiser to donate coins to the developer before/after the premine is destroyed?

I know this is a long post but I was asked for my input on SilkCoin and that is all I'm willing to address. I believe that if the premine isn't destroyed to restore the original premine specs (or at least close to it) that this coin will continue to decline and never recover. I know better than anyone how difficult it is to reignite a community once the initial excitement wears off - you need to keep people excited and optimistic and even if you're just here to dump and get out wouldn't you rather do it at a higher price?

I'm not here for a debate - not my thing. That is my 100% honest assessment of the premine. For those of you here that don't understand the significance of a premine, I urge you to do your research before investing in another premined coin. I would urge you to learn more about why it matters and why it increases the risk. I'm not saying all premines are a horrible thing - I just think it needs to be within reason. We're talking about creating currencies here and a currency cannot work if one single person commands too large of a share right out of the gates. Currency isn't a new concept - it's been around as a superior alternative to the barter system as far back as mankind goes - there are basic rules that must be followed. A 4.5% premine turns off 90% of crypto investors and puts it in a lower class along with hundreds of similar coins - it's virtually impossible to get the level of acceptance required to survive long-term no matter how great the developer is.

I agree that 4,5% is a big unintented premine but what your story seems to miss is that half of the premine has already been spend on bountys.

If they would destroy another 2% not much is left for ongoing bountys or development.

Also there has to be a balance regarding what is left of the premine and what is already spend.

Ofcourse we can check the blockchain but it would be better to see a spreadsheet where all bountys went to.

If part of the premine willbe destroyed i suggest generating a valid address where no private key for can be generated, i know this is possible. If i remember correct NVC did the same in the past and the premine can still be checked in the blockchain but nobody can ever move them.

I was initially against the destruction of the premine but you bholzer, bring some good arguments. I will also donate to a dev fund if this goes ahead.

However, if this goes ahead I guarantee you that FUDders will use it as some sort of dev acknowledgement that the premine was too high. You can never please everyone.

[judgecrypto]

The price of Silk coin will ultimately not be decided on whether people choose to invest in it based on their belief on whether a premine is bad or not.

The long term price of the coin will be determined by UTILITY.  Where can the coin be used?  What can it do?

Coins that are produced with low amounts and considered RARE are not RARE since there are tons of coins that exist and can do nothing else but exist.

Bitcoin is #1 since it has the most UTILITY.  What can you do with Bitcoin?  You can spend it in many places.  It is the reserve currency of altcoins.
Litecoin is #2 since it has less UTILITY but has been around a long time and you can spend it at less places and is worth less.

A coin can be 50% premined and be worth a lot if it has UTILITY!  

So you have to ask yourself.  What is Silk coin doing that is creating UTILITY?  What is it doing that other coins are not doing?  

They are creating an eco system that will have built in marketplace functionality.  You will be able to transact directly with Silk coin to other people eventually.  Yes people will copy it, but being first to market has advantages.  Look at Bitcoin.  People copy the shit out of it, but it was the first.  Dark coin was the first to focus on anonymity and it is higher than the others trying to implement it even with hard fork issues.  As an innovator Silk coin will always be ahead.

People are stuck on the mentality that Premine kills coins. NO... BAD DEVS KILL COINS... Devs that dump premines and abandon their projects kills coins. A well used premine is an ASSET!

Judge Crypto

[Grifftech2k4]

you have had your question answered twice...
your post and concerns, although eloquent and not without value have been addressed
why are you so hung up on a single letter of the alphabet?

Because it isn't just a letter of the alphabet. It is a failure by the very team who launched 'Shock and Awe', a marketing strategy, to address something incredibly basic about the initial structure of this project when they decided to use the Blackcoin source code.

It does not represent a letter, it represents a fundamental failure in the quality standards of the project, from the very first days of its existence.

If your not happy with the answer why ask the question?

I am not happy with the answers I am being given but, what is worse, and something that should be of great concern to any other person considering this coin, is not that I am not happy with the answer, but that the official Silkcoin rep isn't happy with the question.

We are being asked to believe they can deliver a bold new 'Ecosystem' for a coin project they evidently handled sloppily at the very start.

I'm not asking for the letter 'B' to be changed, I'm asking for them to appreciate the failings that letter now represents in their coin's wallet address format and to assuage our concerns as to the type of poor workmanship and quality standards that mistake is clearly representative of.

What has changed in their team, their methodology and practice since then?

If their response is to ask me to keep quiet, I'm guessing not a lot has changed. That's what I'm trying to establish, whether the same behaviours that brought us 'Shock and Awe' along with shockingly poor oversight, have been addressed at all.

U mad bro? You obviously are not happy, why not just leave then? You are sounding more and more childish with each post, crying like a little brat who keeps asking Mommy, "WHY?!".

You know I gave you the benefit of the doubt, and even after I sucked up an early comment about you stating I was a troll for the Whitepaper. Seriously get some help. One minute you sound intelligent, the next minute you sound like a narcissistic brat. Don't bother responding, it falls on deaf ears now.

?? I wasn't even replying to you, I was speaking to cryptodevil. Not sure what you are talking about.

I should have let you know before you responded. This was targeted toward him. I obviously have much respect for you sir. Sorry about that!

No problem man, was just cornfused

[bholzer]

Either/or could damage a coin, Judge. I've been in the crypto game for over 3 years and personally know a number of wealthy individuals and organized investment groups that would not touch a coin with over a 4% premine. Like I said - fair or not, most seasoned traders will never give it a chance. These guys base everything on data and specifications and they control 90% of the capital in this market.

[judgecrypto]

Either/or could damage a coin, Judge. I've been in the crypto game for over 3 years and personally know a number of wealthy individuals and organized investment groups that would not touch a coin with over a 4% premine. Like I said - fair or not, most seasoned traders will never give it a chance. These guys base everything on data and specifications and they control 90% of the capital in this market.

I see your point and the majority of use cases support premines being abused.  My point is that when they deliver on the eco system and wallet innovations the UTILITY of the coin will over ride any of the notions of the premine.  If the eco system was out today we would not even be having this discussion.  The money would be pouring in by the truckloads.

To me the premine is irrelevant.  Initial investors who use the premine as an investment measure are irrelevant to the long term growth of the coin.  What will matter is getting the eco system up and running.  If they use part of the premine to help with coding the eco system then it is money well spent.

This is not to disparage the investors who think premines are bad.  In many cases they are.  In most cases they are.  Silk coin is not any shit coin.  They have delivered so far and will continue to do so.  If the investors who view premines are bad choose not to invest then I say respectfully that is your choice.  You are missing out on an opportunity but you have to go with your trading rules.  Having those investors would prop the price now but it would only be a prop since the ultimate value of the coin is the eco system and not the investors who value a no premine.

Judge Crypto

[onecent]

Come on guys it is just 4% premine, if we take silkcoin as a company, is it unacceptable that the developer of the company only owns 4% of the company's share?  The Silkcoin team has been doing great so far and I think they deserve this 4% premine or even more.(what I meant is please don't take those shit coins(shit companys) as comparison, silkcoin is more better and they deserve more)    Moreover, for those new to silkcoin community, it's the community who asked the dev team to reduce or even cancel the second POW, the dev team fought against it and the 4% premine is the result of reducing the second POW.  

[Skatebird]

Traders of cryptocurrencies expect devs work as a full time job for absolutely nothing lolll i think i prefer someone who hold some coin and try his best to get the maximum of it that a dev who dont give a shit to run out and let investors alone at any moment

[bholzer]

Either/or could damage a coin, Judge. I've been in the crypto game for over 3 years and personally know a number of wealthy individuals and organized investment groups that would not touch a coin with over a 4% premine. Like I said - fair or not, most seasoned traders will never give it a chance. These guys base everything on data and specifications and they control 90% of the capital in this market.

I see your point and the majority of use cases support premines being abused.  My point is that when they deliver on the eco system and wallet innovations the UTILITY of the coin will over ride any of the notions of the premine.  If the eco system was out today we would not even be having this discussion.  The money would be pouring in by the truckloads.

To me the premine is irrelevant.  Initial investors who use the premine as an investment measure are irrelevant to the long term growth of the coin.  What will matter is getting the eco system up and running.  If they use part of the premine to help with coding the eco system then it is money well spent.

This is not to disparage the investors who think premines are bad.  In many cases they are.  In most cases they are.  Silk coin is not any shit coin.  They have delivered so far and will continue to do so.  If the investors who view premines are bad choose not to invest then I say respectfully that is your choice.  You are missing out on an opportunity but you have to go with your trading rules.  Having those investors would prop the price now but it would only be a prop since the ultimate value of the coin is the eco system and not the investors who value a no premine.

Judge Crypto

You may be correct that delivery of the proposed eco-system will negate the premine - it is an unprecedented scenario wherein a developer of a currency also innovates to that degree so it's difficult to say for sure if that would be the case. Unfortunately, there is an extended history of developers promising big things and not following through. Whether the SilkCoin developer will or will not follow through on their promises is yet to be seen and, in reality, nobody other than the developer themselves can claim the developer's intentions. I've seen people assuring everybody he will deliver and I've seen posts from people certain he's a scammer - both claims are equally ridiculous at this stage. The actions of previous developers can not be used as a tool to accurately assess this developer. While it's always smart to be cautious when banking on such a major unknown, it's still a calculated gamble just like any other investment.

My entire point remains that, at least until the eco-system is complete and implemented (as a developer myself this is a major task that should not and cannot be rushed - quality takes time) we're looking at a continued slide in value with nothing to stop it. Right now, major investors (the people you need to keep a coin's market cap above even $100k) will never invest in this coin and smaller investors will grow impatient and continue to jump ship to the next hyped up coin. By the time the eco-system is market-ready, the market cap would be so low it would render the premine irrelevant anyway (as the dev could have bought up all of the coins in circulation for a few thousand dollars anyway).

I would never classify a coin as doomed until it takes it's last breath but, unless there is another major release on the horizon to keep people intrigued, there isn't enough money to go around here - the value of SilkCoin will crash. Opinions, feelings, intuition, and trust can always be factors in the investments you make but this particular situation can be reduced down to an equation. If the value completely crashes, it's possible nothing will be able to recover it. Also, a depressed market destroys motivation from the developer's perspective. Something needs to be done beyond the promise of the upcoming eco-system - everybody is already aware of that and we're fresh off the release of the whitepaper yet the value continues to slide due to the factors I have laid out.

From my perspective, there are very few options here. The easiest option would be destroyed the extra premined coins to bring down the percentage to the original specification - this would help attract a new class of investors that may be interested in getting involved. While the premine still may be too high for some of the really big players, people like myself would be willing to consider making a play at that point. Another option is that the eco-system is production-ready and released before the end of the month. While I find this to be highly unlikely due to the obvious complexity of such a project, perhaps the developer has been working on it for some time and it's release is close. This may be enough to overshadow the premine and would also lay to rest any lingering doubts regarding the developer's intentions and capabilities. Without seeing any of his previous work or knowing who he is, it's difficult to feel confident (as is typically the case).

We're in a market where too many people have been burned far too many times. People have a hard time trusting developers - that's just a fact. Just because you trust him doesn't mean everybody does or even should. There just isn't enough here, Judge, to continue to support the current value (let alone raise the value) - I'm just telling you what I know. If there are other suggestions I would certainly be interested in hearing them - I'm just not sure what they would be. Like I mentioned earlier, if SilkCoin just continues down the current path it will crash down to nothing and grind to a halt. Again, this would be a shame because it's clear a lot of dedication has gone into this project from both the developer and the community.

[judgecrypto]

Either/or could damage a coin, Judge. I've been in the crypto game for over 3 years and personally know a number of wealthy individuals and organized investment groups that would not touch a coin with over a 4% premine. Like I said - fair or not, most seasoned traders will never give it a chance. These guys base everything on data and specifications and they control 90% of the capital in this market.

I see your point and the majority of use cases support premines being abused.  My point is that when they deliver on the eco system and wallet innovations the UTILITY of the coin will over ride any of the notions of the premine.  If the eco system was out today we would not even be having this discussion.  The money would be pouring in by the truckloads.

To me the premine is irrelevant.  Initial investors who use the premine as an investment measure are irrelevant to the long term growth of the coin.  What will matter is getting the eco system up and running.  If they use part of the premine to help with coding the eco system then it is money well spent.

This is not to disparage the investors who think premines are bad.  In many cases they are.  In most cases they are.  Silk coin is not any shit coin.  They have delivered so far and will continue to do so.  If the investors who view premines are bad choose not to invest then I say respectfully that is your choice.  You are missing out on an opportunity but you have to go with your trading rules.  Having those investors would prop the price now but it would only be a prop since the ultimate value of the coin is the eco system and not the investors who value a no premine.

Judge Crypto

You may be correct that delivery of the proposed eco-system will negate the premine - it is an unprecedented scenario wherein a developer of a currency also innovates to that degree so it's difficult to say for sure if that would be the case. Unfortunately, there is an extended history of developers promising big things and not following through. Whether the SilkCoin developer will or will not follow through on their promises is yet to be seen and, in reality, nobody other than the developer themselves can claim the developer's intentions. I've seen people assuring everybody he will deliver and I've seen posts from people certain he's a scammer - both claims are equally ridiculous at this stage. The actions of previous developers can not be used as a tool to accurately assess this developer. While it's always smart to be cautious when banking on such a major unknown, it's still a calculated gamble just like any other investment.

My entire point remains that, at least until the eco-system is complete and implemented (as a developer myself this is a major task that should not and cannot be rushed - quality takes time) we're looking at a continued slide in value with nothing to stop it. Right now, major investors (the people you need to keep a coin's market cap above even $100k) will never invest in this coin and smaller investors will grow impatient and continue to jump ship to the next hyped up coin. By the time the eco-system is market-ready, the market cap would be so low it would render the premine irrelevant anyway (as the dev could have bought up all of the coins in circulation for a few thousand dollars anyway).

I would never classify a coin as doomed until it takes it's last breath but, unless there is another major release on the horizon to keep people intrigued, there isn't enough money to go around here - the value of SilkCoin will crash. Opinions, feelings, intuition, and trust can always be factors in the investments you make but this particular situation can be reduced down to an equation. If the value completely crashes, it's possible nothing will be able to recover it. Also, a depressed market destroys motivation from the developer's perspective. Something needs to be done beyond the promise of the upcoming eco-system - everybody is already aware of that and we're fresh off the release of the whitepaper yet the value continues to slide due to the factors I have laid out.

From my perspective, there are very few options here. The easiest option would be destroyed the extra premined coins to bring down the percentage to the original specification - this would help attract a new class of investors that may be interested in getting involved. While the premine still may be too high for some of the really big players, people like myself would be willing to consider making a play at that point. Another option is that the eco-system is production-ready and released before the end of the month. While I find this to be highly unlikely due to the obvious complexity of such a project, perhaps the developer has been working on it for some time and it's release is close. This may be enough to overshadow the premine and would also lay to rest any lingering doubts regarding the developer's intentions and capabilities. Without seeing any of his previous work or knowing who he is, it's difficult to feel confident (as is typically the case).

We're in a market where too many people have been burned far too many times. People have a hard time trusting developers - that's just a fact. Just because you trust him doesn't mean everybody does or even should. There just isn't enough here, Judge, to continue to support the current value (let alone raise the value) - I'm just telling you what I know. If there are other suggestions I would certainly be interested in hearing them - I'm just not sure what they would be. Like I mentioned earlier, if SilkCoin just continues down the current path it will crash down to nothing and grind to a halt. Again, this would be a shame because it's clear a lot of dedication has gone into this project from both the developer and the community.

Thank you for your detailed response.  I do not believe speculation investment would help the coin at this point.  It would only be temporary.  Depressed price right now will give people who believe in the coin a chance to buy in at reasonable / bargain rates.  

For example.  If the premine were wiped and a ton of investment money came in what would that do to help the coin?  Yeah the price would go up.  Investors would be pumping and dumping like mad.  The vast majority of the investment money you are talking about is not people who care about long term investment.  They are looking for a quick turn on their money.  They would pump and dump just as fast.  While good for them I don't think it is good for Silk coin.

In the end it comes down to delivery.  When they deliver the price will go up and that will be a healthy rise.  I know the ability to trade on exchanges within the wallet is near completion and may be included tomorrow.  If you don't believe in the coin I understand.  You have your own coin to develop.

If you look at the sell charts it is clear that there is not a lot of quantity to buy right now.  A large investor would have to move the market substantially to get a decent chunk of Silk coin right now.  That is a healthy sign.  

Judge Crypto