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Author Topic: [ANN]CureCoin - CURECOIN TEAM HAS TAKEN RANK 1 ON FOLDING@HOME!!!  (Read 668209 times)
QuintLeo
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January 28, 2017, 03:10:31 AM
 #3821

Then again the memory-hard algos like ZEC and ETH can't seem to take advantage of the huge 4096-bit memory bus of HBM (Fiji) and are bottlenecked by the lower mem clock, so I'm not holding my breath either.


 ZEC is proving to not be all that memory hard, though ETH certainly is.

 To the other person claiming that 1080s are better in the long run - perhaps if you have VERY expensive electric cost, but their price differential vs their performance makes it take a VERY long time for them to even think about managing that if so - and in the mean time the 10-20% more PPD that the same $$$ amount spent on 1070 based systems is churning out more than makes up the small difference in electric cost *FOR ME*.

 I do concede that it's closer than the "raw cost" of just the cards would suggest - but I've always done my figuring on estimated *total system* cost/performance/operating cost, and 1080s have NEVER won on such a comparison - FOR ME.

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bardacuda
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January 28, 2017, 04:31:19 AM
 #3822

To the other person claiming that 1080s are better in the long run - perhaps if you have VERY expensive electric cost, but their price differential vs their performance makes it take a VERY long time for them to even think about managing that if so - and in the mean time the 10-20% more PPD that the same $$$ amount spent on 1070 based systems is churning out more than makes up the small difference in electric cost

I'm too lazy to explain to you the math behind why 1060s aren't even an option for a full rig, or how ROI works, or why (at the time of this posting) there isn't a 10xx card under $1,000p/card that beats a 1080 (even with free electric).

What do you mean? Even with free electric 1080s are better Grin It's too bad he's so lazy and won't tell us about his secret math. Cheesy I guess the true extent of his genius will forever remain a mystery to us all...

ZEC is proving to not be all that memory hard, though ETH certainly is.

I really hope they make a Hawaii-esque "490/590" with lots of cores and a 512-bit GDDR5(X) memory bus on the new node as opposed to just an evolution of the Fiji card with HBM. I think that would be a great all-around mining card and would almost certainly buy some of those.

Since I'm off on this tangent...is anyone else chomping at the bit too for the new Ryzen CPUs?
ComputerGenie
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January 28, 2017, 11:28:42 AM
 #3823

...To the other person claiming that 1080s are better in the long run - perhaps if you have VERY expensive electric cost, but their price differential vs their performance makes it take a VERY long time for them to even think about managing that if so - and in the mean time the 10-20% more PPD that the same $$$ amount spent on 1070 based systems is churning out more than makes up the small difference in electric cost *FOR ME*.

 I do concede that it's closer than the "raw cost" of just the cards would suggest - but I've always done my figuring on estimated *total system* cost/performance/operating cost, and 1080s have NEVER won on such a comparison - FOR ME.

Ignoring the  electric difference (~$15.77 USD per year for *total system* @ $0.01 per kWh):

GTX 1070
Cost: ~$400 USD
PPD: 600,000
FLDC per month: 12,000 - ~$14.72 USD
CURE per month: 787 - ~$35.43 USD
Purchase ROI: ~8 months "raw cost" per card
Yearly Revenue: ~$599 USD

GTX 1080
Cost: ~$600 USD
PPD: 800,000
FLDC per month: 16,000 - ~$19.29 USD
CURE per month: 1050 - ~$47.25 USD
Purchase ROI: ~9 months "raw cost" per card
Yearly Revenue: ~$798 USD

The only way 1070 tops 1080 is with a constrained initial "budget" where one would be buying 6x1070 vs 4x1080; however, in that narrow of a constraint, ROI isn't an actual concern (as it's trumped by initial purchase limitations).

*total system* revenue of 6 cards is 1070 ~$3,593.48 per year and 1080 ~$4,791.31 per year.

If you have to ask why, you wouldn`t understand my answer.
shaka256
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January 28, 2017, 01:37:18 PM
 #3824

I can't AFFORD altruism.

Same here, sadly.
But ZEC is still more profitable than merged folding ATM, so hence my confusion.
I guess you have more faith in CURE in the long run?

Guys, when you say coin X or Y is more profitable than merged folding, is it really a lot more of $$/year compared to CURE + FLDC + MAGICFLDC (=>SpellsOfGenesis Cards) + other episodic tokens?

Because if it's just a few tens of bucks per year, okay those coins are indeed more profitable in absolute terms with your config, but merged folding would have helped science for only a small loss of profit for you...
ComputerGenie
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January 28, 2017, 01:57:34 PM
 #3825

Guys, when you say coin X or Y is more profitable than merged folding, is it really a lot more of $$/year compared to CURE + FLDC + MAGICFLDC (=>SpellsOfGenesis Cards) + other episodic tokens?

Because if it's just a few tens of bucks per year, okay those coins are indeed more profitable in absolute terms with your config, but merged folding would have helped science for only a small loss of profit for you...
I don't think anyone (myself included) ever calculates more than just FLDC and/or CURE. SOG is improbable to calculate* and MAGICFLDC + others are usually considered "extras" because of the small market.



*I've still yet to have anyone tell/show me how to sell these cards.

If you have to ask why, you wouldn`t understand my answer.
bardacuda
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January 28, 2017, 05:43:37 PM
 #3826

The only way 1070 tops 1080 is with a constrained initial "budget" where one would be buying 6x1070 vs 4x1080; however, in that narrow of a constraint, ROI isn't an actual concern (as it's trumped by initial purchase limitations).

*total system* revenue of 6 cards is 1070 ~$3,593.48 per year and 1080 ~$4,791.31 per year.

So the only way 1080s are more profitable is in the fringe case where you don't have an initial budget (ie. nobody), and don't use the money saved from buying 1070s over 1080s to buy 50% more 1070s. Gotcha. Wink

I can't AFFORD altruism.

Same here, sadly.
But ZEC is still more profitable than merged folding ATM, so hence my confusion.
I guess you have more faith in CURE in the long run?

Guys, when you say coin X or Y is more profitable than merged folding, is it really a lot more of $$/year compared to CURE + FLDC + MAGICFLDC (=>SpellsOfGenesis Cards) + other episodic tokens?

Because if it's just a few tens of bucks per year, okay those coins are indeed more profitable in absolute terms with your config, but merged folding would have helped science for only a small loss of profit for you...

Actually the guy saying that I don't think he actually did the math. When I explained it to him he changed his opinion.

He has pascal cards though not AMD. Merged folding is DEFINITELY more profitable than ZEC or ETH mining on nVidia cards.

600k PPD ~= 22 CURE and 1750 FLDC = 0.0033BTC / day / card
450Sol/s ~= 0.002 BTC / day / card

...and that's being generous on Sol rate and conservative on PPD.

I have AMD cards and I'm folding. It's not quite as profitable as ZEC but it's in the same ballpark. I get roughly 750k PPD vs. 1050Sol/s I would get mining ZEC. So about 0.0041 BTC/day for merge folding vs. 0.0046 BTC/day for ZEC mining. ZEC used to be significantly more profitable but only during the first month or so.

It's close enough...and if/when CURE 2.0 and SigmaX eventually get released I expect a rise. The low volume could be a problem for a large scale operation but for the average guy at home like myself with only a rig or two it's totally worth it (so that's a good thing for us). If/when the volume ever picks up it would be good for larger operations too and therefore the project as a whole (as that's the end goal and the whole idea of this coin).

Go, CURE! Cheesy

Thanks for clarification, I just switched back to folding.
Go, ME!
ComputerGenie
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January 28, 2017, 06:02:54 PM
 #3827

So the only way 1080s are more profitable is in the fringe case where you don't have an initial budget (ie. nobody), and don't use the money saved from buying 1070s over 1080s to buy 50% more 1070s. Gotcha.
Yes, in the "fringe case" of comparing apples (6x 1070) to oranges (4x 1080), you can get bananas.

If you have to ask why, you wouldn`t understand my answer.
bardacuda
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January 28, 2017, 06:07:09 PM
 #3828

Yes, in the "fringe case" of comparing apples (6x 1070) to oranges (4x 1080), you can get bananas.

No the fringe case is where you only buy a set number of cards regardless of cost and compare card for card. There may be a case where a person is more limited by space/pci-e slots than actual budget, but THAT would be the fringe case. Anyone else is going to buy more of the cheaper card with better price/performance. If you are space/slot limited for some reason then 1080s don't make sense either. You should get Titan X Pascal in that case. There is no situation where 1080 makes sense. You are grasping at straws for justifying your purchase. It's called buyer's remorse...look it up and stop insulting everyone for not making the same mistake.

EDIT: Actually there is a case where it makes sense and that's if you bought one to game with but want to fold when you're not gaming...or decided later that you want to fold instead of gaming. In that case it makes PERFECT sense to have a single 1080 or two in SLI. I will concede that I didn't know it could pull 33% more PPD than a 1070. I thought it was more like 25% based on the limited info I have from the overclock.net database and adjusting that for what I've read in other places. Apparently I didn't adjust enough. Still though 50% more 1070 cards is better and a person would be far from stupid for getting 1070s over 1080s.
ComputerGenie
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January 28, 2017, 06:21:27 PM
 #3829

There is no situation where 1080 makes sense. You are grasping at straws for justifying your purchase. It's called buyer's remorse...look it up and stop insulting everyone for not making the same mistake.

Yes, you're right; it saddens me that I'm making $800 USD per card instead of $600 USD per card.
Ignore everything I've said and stick with making ~$3,593.48 USD per year per rig, instead of ~$4,791.31 USD per year per rig (the extra $1,200 USD in profits are surely going to give you "buyer's remorse").
It's true, I'm just a moron wishing I wasn't earning $50,000 USD p/yr mining. Undecided

If you have to ask why, you wouldn`t understand my answer.
bardacuda
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January 28, 2017, 06:25:20 PM
 #3830

But you're completely ignoring the fact that the guy with lower per-rig income would have 50% more of those rigs lol
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January 28, 2017, 06:32:01 PM
 #3831

Guys, when you say coin X or Y is more profitable than merged folding, is it really a lot more of $$/year compared to CURE + FLDC + MAGICFLDC (=>SpellsOfGenesis Cards) + other episodic tokens?

Because if it's just a few tens of bucks per year, okay those coins are indeed more profitable in absolute terms with your config, but merged folding would have helped science for only a small loss of profit for you...
I don't think anyone (myself included) ever calculates more than just FLDC and/or CURE. SOG is improbable to calculate* and MAGICFLDC + others are usually considered "extras" because of the small market.



*I've still yet to have anyone tell/show me how to sell these cards.

You can use the Counterparty DEX (Decentralized Exchange) built into the Counterwallet (https://wallet.counterwallet.io/).
It is slow and clunky because it uses Bitcoin transactions to sell tokens for XCP, but that is the easiest way for selling the other tokens not traded at centralized exchanges. Once you have XCP then you can trade that for BTC or whatever at the normal centralized exchanges like: Poloniex (https://poloniex.com/), or Bittrex (https://bittrex.com/).

If you are selling small amounts of something on the DEX, the Bitcoin fees might outweigh the amount of XCP you will get. So make sure it's worth it. Like MAGICFLDC is pretty worthless now, but it's for future SoG use, so it will have value when it can be used in the game or to buy rare cards for the game.

Do Folding@Home and be rewarded with FoldingCoin & CureCoin Digital Assets!
ComputerGenie
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January 28, 2017, 06:58:55 PM
 #3832

...I've still yet to have anyone tell/show me how to sell these cards.

You can use the Counterparty DEX ....
I was talking about selling the SpellsOfGenesis Cards themselves (the ones cygnusxi describes here:https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=603757.msg17585009#msg17585009), not the MAGICFLDC or other tokens. As in some value for those of us that don't play the game.

If you have to ask why, you wouldn`t understand my answer.
Hou5e
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January 28, 2017, 07:19:13 PM
 #3833

...I've still yet to have anyone tell/show me how to sell these cards.

You can use the Counterparty DEX ....
I was talking about selling the SpellsOfGenesis Cards themselves (the ones cygnusxi describes here:https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=603757.msg17585009#msg17585009), not the MAGICFLDC or other tokens. As in some value for those of us that don't play the game.

I believe cygnusxi would have had to earn/buy the SoG cards from playing the game, or possibly buy with Bitcrystals or MagicFLDC (earned from folding). The SoG cards were not earned directly from merged folding rewards.

Do Folding@Home and be rewarded with FoldingCoin & CureCoin Digital Assets!
ComputerGenie
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January 28, 2017, 07:31:07 PM
 #3834

...I believe cygnusxi would have had to earn/buy the SoG cards from playing the game, or possibly buy with Bitcrystals or MagicFLDC (earned from folding). The SoG cards were not earned directly from merged folding rewards.
OK, that's where I got lost because following his instructions, the SoG page showed 2 "rare" cards and 1 "epic" card; to my mind, that meant they were mine. Thanks.

If you have to ask why, you wouldn`t understand my answer.
ComputerGenie
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January 28, 2017, 07:48:08 PM
 #3835

But you're completely ignoring the fact that the guy with lower per-rig income would have 50% more of those rigs lol
And you're completely ignoring the fact that your mind is stuck on a narrow budget concept and not a ROI/profit concept.
6 cards vs 6 cards
@ 9 months
1070 rig is "above" 1080 rig in profitability by ~$50 (all 12 cards have paid for themselves at this point)
@ 12 months
1070 rig = 1080 rig (profit is equal)
@ 13 months
1070 rig is less than 1080 rig in profitability by ~$99 profit
@ 24 months
1070 rig is less than 1080 rig in profitability by ~$1,200 profit

Now, I'm sure you're still stuck on the "more cards" end of your thought so, remember this...
Cards 7 & 8 will need another full set of hardware to run.
Now, since you spoke of the "fringe cases", free electric is definitely the "fringe case" (this is why I stated that the numbers don't apply in your limited hobbyist case); taking that into account, you'd also have to calculate the extra cost of running another 2 card rig (cards 7 & 8 ) and the 300-400 extra watts in electric that would cost for a net effect of equal PPD.

And none of that takes into account that the difference between doubling a 6 card 1070 rig out of profits is only 2 months faster than doubling a 6 card 1080 rig out of profits (which would leave 1070 future rigs/earnings exponentially lower every 9 months).

By all means, do as you will; however, by no means, think that you're going to show that I have "buyer's remorse" or that I have not run the numbers every way imaginable or whatever such nonsense you've convinced yourself of.

If you have to ask why, you wouldn`t understand my answer.
Hou5e
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January 28, 2017, 07:49:39 PM
 #3836

...I believe cygnusxi would have had to earn/buy the SoG cards from playing the game, or possibly buy with Bitcrystals or MagicFLDC (earned from folding). The SoG cards were not earned directly from merged folding rewards.
OK, that's where I got lost because following his instructions, the SoG page showed 2 "rare" cards and 1 "epic" card; to my mind, that meant they were mine. Thanks.

You may have cards in your wallet based on what you said. You may need to click the radio button for 'All Cards' on the SoG page to see them. There was FDCARD that was directly given away through merged folding (I forgot about that).

Do Folding@Home and be rewarded with FoldingCoin & CureCoin Digital Assets!
shaka256
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January 28, 2017, 10:22:45 PM
 #3837

I've discovered today that there is a quite active (161 pages at the moment) Spells of Genesis forum on Bitcointalk : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=957797.0

Maybe they can give you all the answers on how to get rid of your cards Cheesy
bardacuda
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January 28, 2017, 10:36:03 PM
 #3838

Of course I'm stuck on the "more cards" concept as that is what any rational person would do. Of course a 6-card 1080 rig will beat a 6-card 1070 rig, because 1080s are faster. Even a 5 year old can figure that out. If that is all you are trying to convice me of, then don't bother. I agree 100%.

So let's explore the dumb idea of taking the cost of a 6-card 1080 rig and instead using the same money to build 1070 rigs (No one has an unlimited budget and if you did, why bother to mine? Even if the budget is much greater all the numbers here will just scale proportionally). Let's assume that the cost of the rest of the rig equals the cost of a 1070...or $400 USD:

$600 x 6 + $400 = $4000 (The cost of a 6-card 1080 rig)
Now, being the neanderthal that I am, I decide to take that same amount of money and buy 1070s instead, because "Oooh, I can has even more shinies!"
So I spend $800 on two barebones rigs and have $3200 left over and buy 8x 1070 cards. Well I must be dumb, because I have 33% more cards but they get 33% less PPD, but I'm also paying more for power!

Ignoring the  electric difference (~$15.77 USD per year for *total system* @ $0.01 per kWh):

GTX 1070
Cost: ~$400 USD
PPD: 600,000
FLDC per month: 12,000 - ~$14.72 USD
CURE per month: 787 - ~$35.43 USD
Purchase ROI: ~8 months "raw cost" per card
Yearly Revenue: ~$599 USD

GTX 1080
Cost: ~$600 USD
PPD: 800,000
FLDC per month: 16,000 - ~$19.29 USD
CURE per month: 1050 - ~$47.25 USD
Purchase ROI: ~9 months "raw cost" per card
Yearly Revenue: ~$798 USD

The only way 1070 tops 1080 is with a constrained initial "budget" where one would be buying 6x1070 vs 4x1080; however, in that narrow of a constraint, ROI isn't an actual concern (as it's trumped by initial purchase limitations).

*total system* revenue of 6 cards is 1070 ~$3,593.48 per year and 1080 ~$4,791.31 per year.

So let's use your own numbers AND give the 1080s the benefit of the doubt and assume they draw the same amount of power per card as a 1070 rather than 20% more. I will be paying $21.03 whereas you are paying $15.77 (something tells me this number is wrong, but of course you did the math in every way shape and form), yet we are both making $4791.31 per year as you say.

Now we can stop here, and again it's easy to see that the 1080 system comes out ahead by almost $6/year. Wowza!

But, for some idiotic reason I decide I would rather have more income, so once I earn enough to add more cards I do that. At $4791.31 per year, I will earn that amount divided by 365.25 per day, or $13.12...minus the cost of power ($21.03 / 365.25 = 5.7­¢), so $13.06. After 30.6 days I will have enough to buy another 1070. Let's call it 31 days to simplify things and err on the side of the 1080 system. So one month in I am now earning [($4791.31 - $21.03) / 365.25] * 9/8 , or $14.69 per day with the power cost now factored in, whereas you are still earning ($4791.31 - $15.77) / 365.25 = 13.07 per day and have accumulated $405.32 in profits, and (thinking maybe there is something to this "more income" shenannigans) buy yourself a shiny new rig but which is devoid of GPUs (or don't. Whatever).

Shall I continue?

After 27.22 days (let's call it 28 just 'cuz) I buy myself another 1070, and am now earning $14.69 * 10/9...or $16.33...per day, and you will have accumulated $771.13 (or $13.07 x 59 days) and spent $400, leaving you with $377.13 and still only 6 1080s and an income of $13.07....

Do I really need to continue at this point? I can but I'll stop here. Clearly you know how this ends up as you have already done the math in every which way. I'm glad you don't have buyer's remorse and are happy with your purchases, but to imply that anyone that does different (and you DID imply this) is somehow not smart, is simply wrong. Good day!

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January 29, 2017, 06:08:41 AM
 #3839

....
Your math is so far off, it's no wonder that you're confused.


600,000 PPD * 8 1070s = 4,800,000 PPD
800,000 PPD * 6 1080s = 4,800,000 PPD

OK, so you've spent the same $ to get the same PPD, except:
8 1070s * 150 watts = 1200 + 10% = 1320 Watts @ the wall
6 1080s * 180 watts = 1080 + 10% = 1188 Watts @ the wall

So, based on the Canadian average of $0.10, you're spending $0.70 per day ($21 per month) just to have "shiny things".

Now, you go on about some zero ROI repurchase plan...
Firstly, unless your day 28 falls on the 1st Saturday of the month and you live in Magicland (where you can sell your FLDC and get the card you purchase with that sale installed on the same day), you're theory is flawed from the get go....

I'm just too bored with you to explain why your thought process will leave you behind in the long run. Good day to you, sir.

If you have to ask why, you wouldn`t understand my answer.
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January 29, 2017, 11:21:20 AM
 #3840

@(ComputerGenie & Bardcuda)

Maybe instead of fighting you should meet around a beer, do the math together peacefully and then write a white paper about the absolutely most optimal configuration for high performance folding that could be published on CURE, FLDC and F@H websites Cheesy
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