Butterfly Labs - Bitforce Single and Mini Rig Box

[roomservice]

I know Butterfly products currently are hard to beat in terms of price/benefit but do you really want to start fpga mining when we reach christmas? Seriously!

Maybe their product is hard to beat for that price, but no professional company should treat their customers like Butterfly Labs does.

At least a confirmation mail or status update via email is a minimum in my opinion. Otherwise i can fully understand people that have doubts and start to ask questions.

As a result i canceled my BFL order from nov 2011 and ordered a few ZTEX 1.15x last sunday. This guy is very professional, got a confirmation mail right after the order was complete.
The fpga arrived only two days later and are a really high quality product. Already hashing for over 80 hours now without any problems.

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[hashking]

I was thinking about buying some 7970's instead.  I'm thinking about investing some serious dough and if bitcoins flop then who is going to want the fpga,  at the least I could get something back for he 7970s.  What is everyone's thoughts on this.  

[kano]

i'm not in the "BFL is a scam" camp, but the justification for almost complete lack of communication with their customers who have waited months for their product, through repeated moving goalposts for expectation of deliver, because BFL is focusing all resources on getting product shipped, is silly.

btw, i notice two BFL units up for bidding on OTC, offered by luke-jr.

http://bitcoin-otc.com/vieworderbook.php?sortby=thing&sortorder=ASC&type=&nick=&thing=BITFORCE+SINGLE+FPGA+MINER&otherthing=&eitherthing=&notes=


don't know that this means he's received them, or just got his shipping email, but we desperately need to see more confirmations of delivered units.

i still hope to become a customer of theirs, but the track record is spotty at best.

Hmm ... anyone know if current can be updated if BFL come out with a new firmware?
(I'm wondering if the reason he's selling them is the current firmware and p2pool do not go together well)

[Garr255]

I think you're completely right about the fpgas, but I don't think Bitcoin will flop soon

[DeathAndTaxes]

Hmm ... anyone know if current can be updated if BFL come out with a new firmware?
(I'm wondering if the reason he's selling them is the current firmware and p2pool do not go together well)

Any FPGA can be upgraded with any compatible bitstream.  Icarus and ztek for example have issued dozens of bitstream updates.   

However BFL indicated the JTAG header wouldn't be useful to determine the chip being used which shows they are keeping (or at least trying) to keep the devices a black box where end user has no internal access.  So it is more a question of if they allow the bitstream to be upgraded.

[cuz0882]

Butterfly Labs - can you tell us how many backorders you have at this point?

I see so many people saying they have ordered 1 or 2 (or 10).  If we assume 300 backordered singles, and say, 10 of the box rigs, that's around 750 GH/s of added hashing power!  Increase of difficulty around 7.5% from where we are now...  I guess it's not a huge amount, but still interesting to think about!

The difficulty is going up by around 15% a month anyway. Even putting all bitcoins earned back into new singles, it will not be enough to maintain a set income. Unless bitcoin prices go up or the difficulty stops going up at the current rate.

So ... where did you get that 15% number from?
The current jump 24 blocks ago was approx 9%

Each adjustment happens about every two weeks. Last time it was 9%. I think 15% a month is about right, I don't see what you think is wrong with it.

[RoloTonyBrownTown]

They are ramping up production and refining the process... I would say 4 - 6 weeks is more likely than it was before. 

Are you now the official BFL PR guy ?

On another note, any more folks from the UK ordered theirs and got any information about customs or VAT or taxes that have to be paid to her majesty ?

Or maybe about that rumor with the Frankfurt EU resellers

Thanks !

No, are you the official asshole of the thread?

Of course not, don't be daft.  He's the official asshole of the forum

Back on topic, America does some things right, but their postage system isn't counted in that.   USPS is, and always has been, a bloody disgrace    I'm sure it might work well enough interstate, but internationally it's bloody terrible.

Shouldn't come as a shock to anyone, but felt like venting anyway

[fred0]

Butterfly Labs - can you tell us how many backorders you have at this point?

I see so many people saying they have ordered 1 or 2 (or 10).  If we assume 300 backordered singles, and say, 10 of the box rigs, that's around 750 GH/s of added hashing power!  Increase of difficulty around 7.5% from where we are now...  I guess it's not a huge amount, but still interesting to think about!

The difficulty is going up by around 15% a month anyway. Even putting all bitcoins earned back into new singles, it will not be enough to maintain a set income. Unless bitcoin prices go up or the difficulty stops going up at the current rate.

So ... where did you get that 15% number from?
The current jump 24 blocks ago was approx 9%

Each adjustment happens about every two weeks. Last time it was 9%. I think 15% a month is about right, I don't see what you think is wrong with it.

The difficulty on 14 October 2011 was 1468195.43, the current difficulty is 1496978.59.  Your estimate of 15% a month is absent of fact.  Maybe that is what kano finds wrong.

[kano]

Hmm ... anyone know if current can be updated if BFL come out with a new firmware?
(I'm wondering if the reason he's selling them is the current firmware and p2pool do not go together well)

Any FPGA can be upgraded with any compatible bitstream.  Icarus and ztek for example have issued dozens of bitstream updates.   

However BFL indicated the JTAG header wouldn't be useful to determine the chip being used which shows they are keeping (or at least trying) to keep the devices a black box where end user has no internal access.  So it is more a question of if they allow the bitstream to be upgraded.

Yep - that's exactly what I'm asking
(no idea if my wording was right or wrong )

The BFL <-> P2Pool issue is reasonably straight forward (and I'm pretty sure they know also?)
When you abort a work request to the BFL it returns nothing (same as Icarus - no idea about the others)

However, if the BFL had actually found any shares, it won't tell you before you abort it - it tells you when it completes the work.
(Icarus does the opposite which actually seems bad also, but in reality is fine - it stops processing when it finds a share and returns it)

Thus for a BFL, if an LP comes before the work completes, even if the work found shares before the LP, you don't know of them.
Not a big % when you are mining 10 minute LPs - but with P2Pool, 10 second LPs means you lose a lot of work ...

[Turbor]

Back on topic, America does some things right, but their postage system isn't counted in that.   USPS is, and always has been, a bloody disgrace    I'm sure it might work well enough interstate, but internationally it's bloody terrible.

Shouldn't come as a shock to anyone, but felt like venting anyway

I disagree. Had many shippments from the USA to Switzerland in the past. Never had an issue with USPS international priority mail ! They ship fast and you can afford it ! UPS or FedEX are the real disgrace. You pay way more and don't get your goods any faster. So i only do USPS and i did more than 20 shippments.

[cuz0882]

Butterfly Labs - can you tell us how many backorders you have at this point?

I see so many people saying they have ordered 1 or 2 (or 10).  If we assume 300 backordered singles, and say, 10 of the box rigs, that's around 750 GH/s of added hashing power!  Increase of difficulty around 7.5% from where we are now...  I guess it's not a huge amount, but still interesting to think about!

The difficulty is going up by around 15% a month anyway. Even putting all bitcoins earned back into new singles, it will not be enough to maintain a set income. Unless bitcoin prices go up or the difficulty stops going up at the current rate.

So ... where did you get that 15% number from?
The current jump 24 blocks ago was approx 9%

Each adjustment happens about every two weeks. Last time it was 9%. I think 15% a month is about right, I don't see what you think is wrong with it.

The difficulty on 14 October 2011 was 1468195.43, the current difficulty is 1496978.59.  Your estimate of 15% a month is absent of fact.  Maybe that is what kano finds wrong.

After the price crash when the bottom price was uncertain, the difficulty dropped with it. Confidence in the price did not start until December. Estimating future difficulty off a time period with a price crash only makes sense if you expect the price to crash again. The difficulty has gone up steady this year, I see no reason for it to stop.

[fred0]

Butterfly Labs - can you tell us how many backorders you have at this point?

I see so many people saying they have ordered 1 or 2 (or 10).  If we assume 300 backordered singles, and say, 10 of the box rigs, that's around 750 GH/s of added hashing power!  Increase of difficulty around 7.5% from where we are now...  I guess it's not a huge amount, but still interesting to think about!

The difficulty is going up by around 15% a month anyway. Even putting all bitcoins earned back into new singles, it will not be enough to maintain a set income. Unless bitcoin prices go up or the difficulty stops going up at the current rate.

So ... where did you get that 15% number from?
The current jump 24 blocks ago was approx 9%

Each adjustment happens about every two weeks. Last time it was 9%. I think 15% a month is about right, I don't see what you think is wrong with it.

The difficulty on 14 October 2011 was 1468195.43, the current difficulty is 1496978.59.  Your estimate of 15% a month is absent of fact.  Maybe that is what kano finds wrong.

After the price crash when the bottom price was uncertain, the difficulty dropped with it. Confidence in the price did not start until December. Estimating future difficulty off a time period with a price crash only makes sense if you expect the price to crash again. The difficulty has gone up steady this year, I see no reason for it to stop.

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good opinion, huh?  Difficulty will follow price. The reason for it to stop is price. That said, I think price will head up, but the 15% a month is bubble talk. No bubble, no 15%. If we have a bubble all bets are off, 15% will be conservative.

Code:

1468195.43		10/14/2011 02:44																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																													
1203461.93	-18.03%	10/31/2011 03:42																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																													
1192497.75	-0.91%	11/14/2011 06:56																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																													
1090715.68	-8.54%	11/29/2011 14:20																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																													
1155038.33	5.90%	12/12/2011 19:42																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																													
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1250757.74	7.83%	01/08/2012 18:26																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																													
1307728.36	4.55%	01/22/2012 03:55																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																													
1379647.44	5.50%	02/04/2012 10:32																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																													
1376302.27	-0.24%	02/18/2012 11:24																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																													
1496978.60	8.77%	03/02/2012 08:25																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																																													

[RoloTonyBrownTown]

Back on topic, America does some things right, but their postage system isn't counted in that.   USPS is, and always has been, a bloody disgrace   I'm sure it might work well enough interstate, but internationally it's bloody terrible.

Shouldn't come as a shock to anyone, but felt like venting anyway

I disagree. Had many shippments from the USA to Switzerland in the past. Never had an issue with USPS international priority mail ! They ship fast and you can afford it ! UPS or FedEX are the real disgrace. You pay way more and don't get your goods any faster. So i only do USPS and i did more than 20 shippments.

Wow.  I've never had anything other than horrible service from them unfortunately.   People in Australia are just now getting packages that were sent a month ago.   I always go out of my way to avoid USPS wherever humanly possibly, but unfortunately it wasn't possible this time.

UPS and Fedex make it here in 3 days 90% of the time in my experience.   USPS quote 3-5 days for Express and it's usually a couple of weeks (the good news being that they're daft enough to offer a money back guarantee if it's not delivered in those timeframes.  It never ever is, so it usually works out to free postage.  I'd still rather pay and have it quicker though).

[heavyb]

I was thinking about buying some 7970's instead.  I'm thinking about investing some serious dough and if bitcoins flop then who is going to want the fpga,  at the least I could get something back for he 7970s.  What is everyone's thoughts on this.  

Bitcoin survived a price collapse from $30 to $3, I dont think it is going to flop anytime soon.

[boconniff40]

any updates on bfl rigbox?

[kano]

any updates on bfl rigbox?

Well, when someone emailed asking if they could visit them with a $30,000 cashier's check they didn't reply.
So I guess it's not ready yet.

[fred0]

any updates on bfl rigbox?

Well, when someone emailed asking if they could visit them with a $30,000 cashier's check they didn't reply.
So I guess it's not ready yet.

Well, I really like the Single.  It's interesting that the rig box will use a different chip than the single. I wouldn't mind seeing a roll out of a "rig box"-chip Single. Don't have to layout 30k for a box, but can receive some of the efficiency of the more powerful or efficient chip. To me, it would also serve to shake out any problems with the newer chip prior to shipping out a 30k product. Certainly not required, but why not?

I also would like to hear of more singles in the wild.  Any new reports?

[RoloTonyBrownTown]

any updates on bfl rigbox?

Well, when someone emailed asking if they could visit them with a $30,000 cashier's check they didn't reply.
So I guess it's not ready yet.

Well, I really like the Single.  It's interesting that the rig box will use a different chip than the single. I wouldn't mind seeing a roll out of a "rig box"-chip Single. Don't have to layout 30k for a box, but can receive some of the efficiency of the more powerful or efficient chip. To me, it would also serve to shake out any problems with the newer chip prior to shipping out a 30k product. Certainly not required, but why not?

I also would like to hear of more singles in the wild.  Any new reports?

USPS have mine.  Could be a while

[bulanula]

You guys are all noobs.

I am waiting for the "SuperComputer"

Nothing else suffices.

Hopefully it will surface before the end of the world

[fred0]

You guys are all noobs.

I am waiting for the "SuperComputer"

Nothing else suffices.

Hopefully it will surface before the end of the world

Silk Road beware, bulanula's coming and loaded with bitcoin.